2008/9 COLLEGE Football Thread

[MacDawg]

Everyone keeps using Hawaii as an example of how bad non-BCS schools are, but I think that's an unfair example.

What about Utah and Boise State, or BYU this year?

In no way am I agreeing with Cave Man, but to allude that a non-BCS school should ever be in a Championship Game is a little blind.

Hawaii is an easy target, but I don't think Utah or Boise were the best teams in their years... nor do I think BYU is the best team this year. Could they win the big game? Yes... Oregon State proved they could beat the #1 team... and Stanford did it last year. But are they the best team week in and week out against major competition. I don't think so. Put Boise in the SEC and they wilt. Everyone was on East Carolina's bandwagon early... now they have lost twice to bad teams.

expect they can't. you need at least 12 teams in the conference to have a conference championship game.

Which is exactly why they should get on board and expand and bring in the best of the Non-BCS conferences...

Personally, I think Georgia would have beat LSU if they had played in the championship game last year. But the two best teams didn't play for the championship - it was one contender and one pretender.

I agree Georgia was the best team... but according to your own criteria, they didn't prove it on the field. The Dawgs couldn't win the East and make it to the SEC Championship game... they lost out in the "playoff".

Like North Carolina State, Villanova or Kansas 1988 in NCAA hoops? That's the problem with NCAA football, Cinderella's not allowed to dance.

First you say you want the best teams in... now you say you want the Cinderella. I'm confused. Basketball is set up to let everyone have their shot... so the best team doesn't always win. That is the way tournaments are... look at the SEC Basketball Tournament this past year. UGA was last, but won the Tournament and got an automatic bid. Were they worthy? Hardly... they got hot in the tournament, but over the season, they were not.

Like I said... I am not opposed to a playoff... but I am not sold on it being soooooo much better.

Woof, Woof - Dawg

 

[echeck]

I like the BCS idea, but like you said; it just needs to be broadened.

One of the biggest positives in being in a BCS Bowl Game isn't the notoriety of winning the game, it's getting that paycheck.

That sounds horrible, but it's true. Getting that money helps the school build the program. Everything from upgrades to their stadium to salaries for good coaches. When a program has a small budget they get small talent, that's all there is to it.

Every now and then there's an exception to that rule, and that's generally when a non-BCS team gets in to a BCS Bowl.

There are a lot of very good teams out there, and I just don't like the idea of it being so insanely difficult for a "non-BCS" team to make it to a big Bowl.

Like this year. There are still a fair amount of non-BCS teams in the top 25, but there's no way two non-BCS schools will make it in.

 

[majordude]

There are still a fair amount of non-BCS teams in the top 25, but there's no way two non-BCS schools will make it in.

Why should they???!

A non-BCS team trying to get a good BCS bowl is like the winner of the Grey Cup saying they should compete with the winner of the Super Bowl to see who really is the best.

Either join the league and play by the rules or quit bitching.

Sure, there are benefits of being an independent but there are also disadvantages. Live with it.

The non-BCS teams that get bowls should be kissing the feet of the NCAA gods for allowing them to participate in anything named BCS.

 

[Cave Man]

I agree Georgia was the best team... but according to your own criteria, they didn't prove it on the field.

That's because they didn't get the chance. The parity in the SEC is higher than any other conference (and one reason why it's the best conference in the nation). As you say, any team can lose on any day. Mix it up a little to be more fair than it currently is.

The Dawgs couldn't win the East and make it to the SEC Championship game... they lost out in the "playoff".

Nor did Kansas, but they took it to Va Tech (a two-touchdown favorite) in a BCS game.

First you say you want the best teams in... now you say you want the Cinderella. I'm confused.

Take last season. Half of the top 16 teams had 3 losses or more. If any of them had won it all in a playoff system, they would have been declared a Cinderella.

Basketball is set up to let everyone have their shot... so the best team doesn't always win.

But at least 1/4 of the NCAA teams get a shot at winning it all in basketball, which is more than you can say for NCAA football (and the whole point of this seemingly pointless exercise).

Like I said... I am not opposed to a playoff... but I am not sold on it being soooooo much better.

A 16-team playoff would be far superior than the BcS that we have now.

Why should they???!

Because they just might be the best football team in the NCAA. After all, we want to know which is the best team, which is the definition of champion.

A non-BCS team trying to get a good BCS bowl is like the winner of the Grey Cup saying they should compete with the winner of the Super Bowl to see who really is the best.

That's complete bull. The CFL and the NFL are two different leagues. Supposedly, if you're in the NCAA then you're in the NCAA. But in reality, if you're not from a BCS conference then you're a second class citizen with fewer rights, including no right to win the NCAA National Championship.

Either join the league and play by the rules or quit bitching.

All the non-BCS conferences are playing by the rules - except for the unwritten one that says a non-BCS school can never win the NCAA championship. In 2004 three teams finished undefeated (USC, Auburn and Utah). I'm not sure the best team won it that year. But we'll never know since it was decided by a bunch of cigar-smokin' guys behind closed doors, either representing the BCS conferences or east and west coast newspapers.

The non-BCS teams that get bowls should be kissing the feet of the NCAA gods for allowing them to participate in anything named BCS.

And this, more than anything anyone can say, is why it's inherently unfair. Until a playoff system is in place, the NCAA football champion will be mythical.

 

[majordude]

Because they just might be the best football team in the NCAA. After all, we want to know which is the best team, which is the definition of champion.

What color is the sky in your world?

The people in power get to determine the rules of the game. That's how my world works.

The winner of the World Series (and they define the "world" loosely as just US and Canada) is THE champion of MLB. They don't ask the Japanese, the Cubans or the best college team or Little League team for their input. They make the rules and they make their declaration.

If you are non-BCS you are a non-participant in the BCS championship. Simple as that.

 

[echeck]

...rant...

...more ranting...

Dude, your logic is majorly messed up here.

Do you like the play on the words? Get it?? Your name is "majordude"! Ha!

Anyway, I completely and utterly disagree with you. But there's no point in arguing about it because to me your logic is so out there that there is no way either one of us will ever agree with the other.

But, for the record, I desperately hope to see two non-BCS schools in the Bowls this year. If nothing else just to spite you!

In my opinion any match of any sport is all about who is the better team on that particular day. This is felt in a one-game Championship, but also in a 7-game playoff series.

It's all about who is better on that day, and that is what determines the "better" team. Simple as that.

Oregon State was much better than USC on September 25, 2008. I'm sure USC could wipe the floor with Oregon State every other day of the year, but on that day they were not the better team.

One of the great things about college football is the amount of emotion involved. As has been said, every game matters so you not only have to be on your A-game physically, but also emotionally. If you underestimate anyone then you are vulnerable.

This is why the leader board switches up nearly every week, and why college is much more interesting than the NFL.

 

[MacDawg]

The Dawgs are off this week, still licking their wounds from the beatdown they got last week from 'Bama. Knowshon Moreno is healing from an elbow injury and vows to play against Tennessee next week. I am expecting the Dawgs to bounce back and play inspired ball the rest of the way, and I like the matchups the rest of the year... with LSU being their toughest game remaining in my opinion.

Just a few of the compelling games...

Kentucky at Alabama
Both are undefeated, but Kentucky has not played anybody
Alabama didn't play particularly well after the big win over Clemson

Texas Tech at Kansas State
Meh, I'm not really interested, but it should be high scoring

Texas at Colorado
Texas needs to be careful not to look ahead to the Red River Shootout with Oklahoma

Auburn at Vanderbilt
Auburn is struggling and Vanderbilt is for real
Vandy beat a good Ole Miss team and a solid South Carolina team
The SCarolina team has a strong defense like Auburn

Connecticut at North Carolina
Each is looking to establish themselves as legit

Oregon at USC
Which USC team will show up?
The one that beat Ohio State or the one that lost to Oregon State?

Ohio State at Wisconsin
Neither can afford another loss, but Ohio State's was non-conference

Missouri at Nebraska
Both will be looking to measure where their program is right now

Florida State at Miami
Both are unranked... but always a huge rivalry


Woof, Woof - Dawg

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

What about Utah beating Oregon State and going to 6 and 0 on the season?

Does anyone think that the Utes could bust into the BCS again this year?

And how about the BYU Cougars last night? They played the #111 team in the nation and were played very tough, out played by quite a bit in the second half. They looked terrible, but still got a 34-14 win. I think that BYU needs to be destroying teams all year, their non conference schedule is very weak (Washington, UCLA, Northern Iowa (DII) and Utah State.

I just hope my Utes can pull it out this season, and that on November 11th we can have a matchup of two 11 and 0 teams for the Mountain West Conference Championship, and a BCS birth.

SLC

 

[dmr727]

I think that BYU needs to be destroying teams all year, their non conference schedule is very weak (Washington, UCLA, Northern Iowa (DII) and Utah State.

I feel for BYU - it's not their fault that both UW and UCLA suck this season.

This is going to be an interesting season.

 

[swiftaw]

Missouri at Nebraska
Both will be looking to measure where their program is right now

Disagree here. Missouri is a national title contender, Nebraska is still rebuilding. This game isn't going to be close.

 

[Cave Man]

What about Utah beating Oregon State and going to 6 and 0 on the season?

I just hope my Utes can pull it out this season, and that on November 11th we can have a matchup of two 11 and 0 teams for the Mountain West Conference Championship, and a BCS birth.

Keep dreaming, because it will never happen. Utah cannot possibly play for the national title because they are not from one of the six BCS conferences. The rules are in place to protect those six conferences. Even if the Utes ran the table, they would be penalized by their "weak" conference (which won't happen to another weak conference, the Big Ten) thus the BCS ratings system won't put them in the top two at the end of the season.

 

[swiftaw]

As an aside, here is my major issue with the rankings. There shouldn't be any rankings until at least week 3. The idea of pre-season rankings is ludicrous. The first rankings should be made after week 3 or 4 once people begin to see how the season is developing.

 

[MacDawg]

Disagree here. Missouri is a national title contender, Nebraska is still rebuilding. This game isn't going to be close.

Perhaps Mizzou is a contender, but they have yet to show they can get over the hump and win a the big game (Oklahoma?). Until they do, they are a trendy pick. I like their team, don't get me wrong, but they have yet to break through, that is why I say they are measuring their program. They need to show they can win consistently against the big boys and break into the BCS Bowls. Nebraska is measuring with a new coach and system.

Woof, Woof - Dawg

 

[swiftaw]

Perhaps Mizzou is a contender, but they have yet to show they can get over the hump and win a the big game (Oklahoma?). Until they do, they are a trendy pick. I like their team, don't get me wrong, but they have yet to break through, that is why I say they are measuring their program. They need to show they can win consistently against the big boys and break into the BCS Bowls. Nebraska is measuring with a new coach and system.

Woof, Woof - Dawg

To be fair, Missouri were robbed of a BCS bowl last season. They beat Kansas yet Kansas somehow got a BCS bowl bid.

 

[MacDawg]

Keep dreaming, because it will never happen. Utah cannot possibly play for the national title because they are not from one of the six BCS conferences. The rules are in place to protect those six conferences. Even if the Utes ran the table, they would be penalized by their "weak" conference (which won't happen to another weak conference, the Big Ten) thus the BCS ratings system won't put them in the top two at the end of the season.

I think he meant a BCS game, not the BCS championship, but I could have misunderstood myself. I think Utah has a shot, but it won't be both Utah and BYU in a BCS Bowl.

Could one play for the championship? Possibly... but it depends on what the other conferences and teams do.

Woof, Woof - Dawg

 

[MacDawg]

To be fair, Missouri were robbed of a BCS bowl last season. They beat Kansas yet Kansas somehow got a BCS bowl bid.

I agree they should have gotten the nod over Kansas... but they didn't and they lost to Oklahoma... twice... which is why I say they are measuring their program... are they ready for that step. We shall see.

Woof, Woof - Dawg

 

[dmr727]

I'm hoping my Longhorns aren't looking past CU towards OU next week.

But since I'm just a fan, I can afford that luxury. TX/OU will be a great game. One I don't think we'll win, but here's hoping!

 

[MacDawg]

I'm hoping my Longhorns aren't looking past CU towards OU next week.

But since I'm just a fan, I can afford that luxury. TX/OU will be a great game. One I don't think we'll win, but here's hoping!

It should be a heck of a game, it usually is
It is one of the great events of college football

McCoy has surprised me with this turnaround this year
And Bradford has not had a slump from last year's performance

Woof, Woof - Dawg

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

I think he meant a BCS game, not the BCS championship, but I could have misunderstood myself. I think Utah has a shot, but it won't be both Utah and BYU in a BCS Bowl.

Could one play for the championship? Possibly... but it depends on what the other conferences and teams do.

Woof, Woof - Dawg

That's exactly what I meant, a BCS game not the championship (though those damn cougars about 30 minutes to the south of me think they've got it locked up this year to be in the championship). I was thinking that perhaps if we go undefeated this season we'll end up in the Sugar Bowl or the Fiesta Bowl again. We're all still pissed about getting stuck with Pitt when we were the first non BCS team to bust in in 2004/2005. I think we could have hung it on just about anyone that year. This year would be different though, we're pretty good, but nowhere near where we were then.

What would be awesome is if we got to one of the BCS games and were paired up with Florida, if you don't know Urban Meyer was the U of U coach the year we crashed the BCS and his Defensive Coordinator is now our head coach.

SLC

 

[swiftaw]

I agree they should have gotten the nod over Kansas... but they didn't and they lost to Oklahoma... twice... which is why I say they are measuring their program... are they ready for that step. We shall see.

Woof, Woof - Dawg

Okay, I guess I'll agree with you that both Missouri and Nebraska are measuring their program, but I'll add that these measurements are being conducted on vastly different scales

 

[MacDawg]

That's exactly what I meant, a BCS game not the championship (though those damn cougars about 30 minutes to the south of me think they've got it locked up this year to be in the championship). I was thinking that perhaps if we go undefeated this season we'll end up in the Sugar Bowl or the Fiesta Bowl again. We're all still pissed about getting stuck with Pitt when we were the first non BCS team to bust in in 2004/2005. I think we could have hung it on just about anyone that year. This year would be different though, we're pretty good, but nowhere near where we were then.

What would be awesome is if we got to one of the BCS games and were paired up with Florida, if you don't know Urban Meyer was the U of U coach the year we crashed the BCS and his Defensive Coordinator is now our head coach.

SLC

Yeah, we hated we were paired with Hawaii last year

I think the Utes have a good team, but it will be tough to maintain focus all year. One slip and the polls are not as forgiving for the non-BCS schools.

And I want nothing more than to see Urban Meyer and the Gators get their comeuppance. How do you feel about him now??

Okay, I guess I'll agree with you that both Missouri and Nebraska are measuring their program, but I'll add that these measurements are being conducted on vastly different scales

Most definitely... on reason I said that is because Missouri hasn't beaten Nebraska in Lincoln in 30 years (15 straight). That is what I mean by stepping up and getting over the hump.

Mizzou is on the verge... Nebraska is trying to restore their reputation the hard way

Woof, Woof - Dawg

 

[Cave Man]

Could one play for the championship? Possibly...

Nope, there is no chance that a non-BCS conference team can play in the BCS Championship game. None whatsoever.

I was thinking that perhaps if we go undefeated this season we'll end up in the Sugar Bowl or the Fiesta Bowl again. We're all still pissed about getting stuck with Pitt when we were the first non BCS team to bust in in 2004/2005.

Screw that. You should be pissed that you didn't get to play for the championship. But the system was rigged against you.

I think we could have hung it on just about anyone that year.

I think Utah was the best team in the country that year. USC won it, but that was one of the weakest years for the Pac-10. They didn't face a single team with a decent offense - and there's no doubt IMM that Utah had the best offense in the country.

if you don't know Urban Meyer was the U of U coach the year we crashed the BCS and his Defensive Coordinator is now our head coach.

And do you recall the reason why Meyer left Utah? "I can't win a national championship at Utah." He knows how the system is set up (although I'm sure all those $$$ had an impact, too).

 

[echeck]

And do you recall the reason why Meyer left Utah? "I can't win a national championship at Utah." He knows how the system is set up ...

The last two Boise State coaches had similar ideas. It was never quoted, but everyone knows that's part of the reason they left Boise State. Koetter coached from '98-'00 and then went to Arizona State. His career there didn't go too well and he was canned, but now he's the Offensive Coordinator at Jacksonville.

Dan Hawkins took over after Koetter, but he left after the '05 season to go to Colorado.

Chris Peterson, the current coach has already been heavily recruited by bigger schools, but he has said he doesn't feel he's done with Boise State yet.

 

[majordude]

Oregon vs. USC

Oregon thought about going for it on 4th down with about 2:30 to go in the first half but got cold feet, called a time out, and gave up something like 17 points in the last 2:00!

Talk about being gutless.

Looks like Martyball or one of Norv Turners NFL teams.

 

[CorvusCamenarum]

Kentucky at Alabama
Both are undefeated, but Kentucky has not played anybody
Alabama didn't play particularly well after the big win over Clemson

I thought Saban was going to pop a vein or something, and rightly so. I expect more choice words to be forthcoming this week.

Auburn at Vanderbilt
Auburn is struggling and Vanderbilt is for real
Vandy beat a good Ole Miss team and a solid South Carolina team
The SCarolina team has a strong defense like Auburn

Alabama and Vandy in the SEC title game.