2008/9 COLLEGE Football Thread

[MacDawg]

Well the bowls would be gone. If you can't win your conference how does that give you the right to represent your conference? If we do a playoff of the top 8 then we go back to what we don't like about the current system.

GIGO (Garbage in Garbage out)

Do you want the best 8 teams or the Conference champions?
How do you decide the best 8 teams? 4 teams?

Conference champions is just one way to do this

But I think if that is the way you go... then you need the Pac 10 and Big 10 on board as well as the Big East with a conference championship game... which means expansion of the conferences.

However, clearly Virginia Tech and Cincinnati do not belong in an 8 game playoff this year... so how do you justify that scenario.

This is just one reason why a playoff is not the ultimate solution

Woof, Woof - Dawg

 

[mikeyredk]

Well how about this as an answer why we have that orange bowl. The ACC and the Big East suck this year.

There will never be a true solution that everyone will be happy with

Everyone needs to work together to come up with a working solution

 

[MacDawg]

There will never be a true solution that everyone will be happy with

Which is my point... no playoff system will solve all the problems
The BCS seeks to match #1 and #2 which it does
Whether you agree on who is 1 and 2 or not is a different matter

I am not a fan of the BCS either, but I am not naive enough to believe any playoff is the ultimate panacea


Woof, Woof - Dawg

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

Which is my point... no playoff system will solve all the problems
The BCS seeks to match #1 and #2 which it does
Whether you agree on who is 1 and 2 or not is a different matter

I am not a fan of the BCS either, but I am not naive enough to believe any playoff is the ultimate panacea


Woof, Woof - Dawg

I don't think everyone thinks it will solve all the problems, but it's miles ahead of what we have now. I wouldn't be so opposed to the BCS if they gave all the conferences a fair shake. But the title is currently off limits unless you're in a "BCS" conference, even though that doesn't always mean a whole lot.

SLC

 

[Tomorrow]

I completely disagree. The whole point of contention in the current BCS situation is teams that want a chance to play for the national title. Sometimes, more than two teams have a legitimate claim to that chance.

Yeah, but if you have an 8-team field, people will be going on and on about how the #9 team deserved a shot...same with a 16-team field and the #17 team.

Like it or not, we already have a playoff - two teams and one game.

 

[MacDawg]

I don't think everyone thinks it will solve all the problems, but it's miles ahead of what we have now. I wouldn't be so opposed to the BCS if they gave all the conferences a fair shake. But the title is currently off limits unless you're in a "BCS" conference, even though that doesn't always mean a whole lot.

SLC

I'm curious SLC, you seem to be very sure of this... is it written in the BCS rules that a team from a non-BCS conference absolutely cannot play for the NC? That may be the case, but I am not aware of the rule.

If it is not a rule... then you have no real argument. The teams that are ranked #1 and #2 play for the NC. Could Utah be ranked #2? Or #1? Yes, if they meet the "criteria" that goes in the BCS formula... record, polls, computer rankings, strength of schedule, etc. If your strength of schedule hurts you in the non-BCS conference... well, not much can be done about that without joining a big boy conference. Now if you want to argue voter bias, etc. feel free... because Badandy will tell you there is an anti-USC bias right now, and I will tell you there is a pro-Gator bias. So it is not just a non-BCS conference bias.

In addition, you say every conference should get a fair shake. I disagree wholeheartedly. All conferences are not created equal. Look at the Big East this year, and even the ACC to some degree. The Pac 10 and Big 10 have their weaknesses too, but they are not all created equal. The NC doesn't pair the two best conferences... it is supposed to pair the two best teams... regardless of conference.

Wanna play for the NC?
Be one of the two best teams in the country.
Sorry, Utah doesn't measure up.
That's why they are not in there... not because of their conference affiliation.

Which team would you replace?
Oklahoma or Florida?
Polls or not, only a true homer would believe that Utah belongs there instead of one of those teams.

Now, having said that... Utah has a good team
They have had a great season
They are playing in a BCS Bowl
Be proud of your team

Only 2 can play for the title... I think they got it right this time
I don't like the way they did it, but I think it is the right 2 teams
Texas has a beef... and maybe USC... but other than that... nope

Woof, Woof - Dawg

 

[echeck]

For me the single largest problem with the current BCS system is the Coaches Poll. It is absolutely ridiculous to expect all of these coaches to know what every other team in the country is doing week in and week out. These guys are (or should be) more concerned with their own team to bother focusing on everyone else.

How do these guys have any idea what is truly going on across the country??!

They don't. And this is why their votes are meaningless, and shouldn't account for anything.

The amount of bias is incredible in these things.

I think we would be much better off with a committee of voters, and I don't think the votes should begin until week eight, just like the BCS ranking.

Playoff or not, until we find a way around this incredible human bias we will never have a good system.

 

[iVeBeenDrinkin']

I'm curious SLC, you seem to be very sure of this... is it written in the BCS rules that a team from a non-BCS conference absolutely cannot play for the NC? That may be the case, but I am not aware of the rule.

If it is not a rule... then you have no real argument. The teams that are ranked #1 and #2 play for the NC. Could Utah be ranked #2? Or #1? Yes, if they meet the "criteria" that goes in the BCS formula... record, polls, computer rankings, strength of schedule, etc. If your strength of schedule hurts you in the non-BCS conference... well, not much can be done about that without joining a big boy conference. Now if you want to argue voter bias, etc. feel free... because Badandy will tell you there is an anti-USC bias right now, and I will tell you there is a pro-Gator bias. So it is not just a non-BCS conference bias.

In addition, you say every conference should get a fair shake. I disagree wholeheartedly. All conferences are not created equal. Look at the Big East this year, and even the ACC to some degree. The Pac 10 and Big 10 have their weaknesses too, but they are not all created equal. The NC doesn't pair the two best conferences... it is supposed to pair the two best teams... regardless of conference.

Wanna play for the NC?
Be one of the two best teams in the country.
Sorry, Utah doesn't measure up.
That's why they are not in there... not because of their conference affiliation.

Which team would you replace?
Oklahoma or Florida?
Polls or not, only a true homer would believe that Utah belongs there instead of one of those teams.

Now, having said that... Utah has a good team
They have had a great season
They are playing in a BCS Bowl
Be proud of your team

Only 2 can play for the title... I think they got it right this time
I don't like the way they did it, but I think it is the right 2 teams
Texas has a beef... and maybe USC... but other than that... nope

Woof, Woof - Dawg

Agreed. But, how is it going to look if Utah beats Alabama and Oklahoma beats Florida?

 

[MacDawg]

Agreed. But, how is it going to look if Utah beats Alabama and Oklahoma beats Florida?

I believe Oklahoma will beat Florida
I hate the Gators™

I think it is highly unlikely that Utah will beat Alabama
But even if they do, it will qualify as an upset
They happen... just ask USC when Stanford beat them

Very few people in the country would argue that Utah is better than Alabama
There is a reason there are number of teams ranked higher than Utah

Woof, Woof - Dawg

 

[mikeyredk]

For me the single largest problem with the current BCS system is the Coaches Poll. It is absolutely ridiculous to expect all of these coaches to know what every other team in the country is doing week in and week out. These guys are (or should be) more concerned with their own team to bother focusing on everyone else.

Exactly this is one of the main reasons why they went to a computer system to fix this but guess what they kept the old system too and tacked on the computer. You can shine up a piece of turd but at the end of the day its still a piece of turd.

 

[iVeBeenDrinkin']

I believe Oklahoma will beat Florida
I hate the Gators™

I think it is highly unlikely that Utah will beat Alabama
But even if they do, it will qualify as an upset
They happen... just ask USC when Stanford beat them

Very few people in the country would argue that Utah is better than Alabama
There is a reason there are number of teams ranked higher than Utah

Woof, Woof - Dawg

I am not arguing that Utah is better than Alabama. I am saying that if Utah should beat Alabama, they will be the only unbeaten team in the BCS. You can argue that they don't play a tuff schedule but, you stated earlier that all teams have a shot at the title. If Utah beats a powerhouse and goes undefeated, I think they have an argument.

 

[MacDawg]

Exactly this is one of the main reasons why they went to a computer system to fix this but guess what they kept the old system too and tacked on the computer. You can shine up a piece of turd but at the end of the day its still a piece of turd.

While I agree there are clearly biased coaches (and sportswriters, etc.), the human factor has to be included. I don't think a computer can adequately account for the polls either. Besides, the computer is only as good as the criteria that is used to support the program. Otherwise every computer would rank teams the same. That is why the blended the two and didn't abandon the human polls. They are used to compliment each other, each a piece of the puzzle.

Woof, Woof - Dawg

 

[dukebound85]

Which is my point... no playoff system will solve all the problems
The BCS seeks to match #1 and #2 which it does
Whether you agree on who is 1 and 2 or not is a different matter

I am not a fan of the BCS either, but I am not naive enough to believe any playoff is the ultimate panacea


Woof, Woof - Dawg

so what do you propose? i mean if there was a scientific way to be able to measure a team's "goodness" then there would be no need to play as the best team would already be known

i disagree with you Macdawg, having playoff would erase all doubt in my mind. success is measured on the field and a playoff is the best way to do that

all the talent in the world doesnt mean anything unless you go out and utilize it

the championship to me is not declaring the best team talent wise, but declaring the team that gets what needs to be done to become a champion, a champion

 

[gibbz]

revenge is sweet

I call my bracket "revenge." Boise St. .. See ya! USC .. See ya. Texas .. Hook this!

 

[MacDawg]

I am not arguing that Utah is better than Alabama. I am saying that if Utah should beat Alabama, they will be the only unbeaten team in the BCS. You can argue that they don't play a tuff schedule but, you stated earlier that all teams have a shot at the title. If Utah beats a powerhouse and goes undefeated, I think they have an argument.

#1 and #2 play for the title, and all teams have a shot at being #1 or #2
Yes, Utah is undefeated, but they are not deemed #1 or #2 in either the human or those "unbiased" computer polls

So they don't play for the championship
Just being the only unbeaten team does not qualify
Besides, they are not the only unbeaten team... Boise is also undefeated

Can they make a case? Of course they can...
So can Texas, USC, Texas Tech, Penn State, USC...


Woof, Woof - Dawg

 

[iVeBeenDrinkin']

#1 and #2 play for the title, and all teams have a shot at being #1 or #2
Yes, Utah is undefeated, but they are not deemed #1 or #2 in either the human or those "unbiased" computer polls

So they don't play for the championship
Just being the only unbeaten team does not qualify
Besides, they are not the only unbeaten team... Boise is also undefeated

Can they make a case? Of course they can...
So can Texas, USC, Texas Tech, Penn State, USC...


Woof, Woof - Dawg

Boise state is not in the BCS.

Utah plays who they are scheduled to play. I am betting this year Utah may have won the PAC 10 but, that is all speculation, as is the whole BCS.

 

[MacDawg]

so what do you propose? i mean if there was a scientific way to be able to measure a team's "goodness" then there would be no need to play as the best team would already be known

i disagree with you Macdawg, having playoff would erase all doubt in my mind. success is measured on the field and a playoff is the best way to do that

all the talent in the world doesnt mean anything unless you go out and utilize it

the championship to me is not declaring the best team talent wise, but declaring the team that gets what needs to be done to become a champion, a champion

You misunderstand me
I am not opposed to a playoff at all
I am just saying it doesn't solve all the problems
It is not the clear, ultimate solution everyone makes it out to be

Let's say we have an 8 team playoff this year

1. Oklahoma 12-1
2. Florida 12-1
3. Texas 11-1
4. Alabama 12-1
5. USC 11-1
6. Utah 12-0
7. Texas Tech 11-1
8. Penn State 11-1
9. Boise State 12-0

According to the BCS standings... Boise is the odd man out
But they are undefeated... do they have an argument to replace Penn State?
They are currently slated to play a 10-2 TCU team in the Bowls
What if they win their game handily?
Do they have a case?

I am not opposed to the playoff... just admit it has it's problems too
It is easy to say it will remove all doubt
But I guarantee if we went to a playoff there would STILL be controversy the first year and every year after

You ask what I propose?
I propose to have fun and enjoy college football and not take it too seriously
Embrace the controversy... it is what makes college ball different
We all get to support our team, trash talk and play the woulda, coulda, shoulda game



Woof, Woof - Dawg

 

[dukebound85]

You ask what I propose?
I propose to have fun and enjoy college football and not take it too seriously
Embrace the controversy... it is what makes college ball different
We all get to support our team, trash talk and play the woulda, coulda, shoulda game

haha true that. the controversy is what makes for half the fun!

 

[dmr727]

You're still going to have controversy with a playoff - that's true. But at least with an eight team playoff the team that's pissed is #9 or worse.

 

[ipodtouchy333]

This is kinda old news but.... SAM BRADFORD won the Heisman! YAYYYYAY. Now all he has left is the National Championship. And I must say, he was looking fine when he accepted that trophy

 

[mikeyredk]

Question

do the computers calculate losses the same way as wins?

Say you lose by 1 point vs losing by 24 like they do by wins?

 

[P-Worm]

Question

do the computers calculate losses the same way as wins?

Say you lose by 1 point vs losing by 24 like they do by wins?

From what I understand, they take score into consideration, but there's a score cap placed somewhere to prevent from teams just running up the score.

P-Worm

 

[dmr727]

And I must say, he was looking fine when he accepted that trophy

He looks like a shaved caveman.

 

[mikeyredk]

From what I understand, they take score into consideration, but there's a score cap placed somewhere to prevent from teams just running up the score.

P-Worm

Thats all fine and dandy but what about the opposite if the loss is only one point? does that count the same as a lose of greater say 24? In this instance I dont' care what the winner gets but what the looser gets.

 

[dukebound85]

Thats all fine and dandy but what about the opposite if the loss is only one point? does that count the same as a lose of greater say 24? In this instance I dont' care what the winner gets but what the looser gets.

like ive never understood why when a 1 vs 2 game ends up having the 1 team win by a point and then have the 2 team fall in the rankings

happens in cfb and ncaa bball. why must teams fall if they lose?