wow. a little humility is what they needed. would have been fun watching them from the last stall all season long.
the racism stuff is all good and well though.
the racism stuff is all good and well though.
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2008 Formula One Thread
- Thread starter R.Youden
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Liars and cheats too.
Seen the rumbles on the Atlas Forums about secret hidden settings in the MES ECU?
Ferrari International Assistance my arse.
Could you put some links up?
Speaking to people in the know there is nothing going on, probably just bitter Ferrari fans again!
Feb 20th @Barcelona times:
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:30.675 73
2. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 1:32.370 96
3. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:32.599 26
4. Alonso Renault (B) 1:32.820 16
5. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:32.924 22
6. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:33.283 57
7. Piquet Renault (B) 1:40.073 8
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:30.675 73
2. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 1:32.370 96
3. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:32.599 26
4. Alonso Renault (B) 1:32.820 16
5. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:32.924 22
6. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:33.283 57
7. Piquet Renault (B) 1:40.073 8
me too... seeing that jarno gave me nothing to cheer about...
i like button well enough. i enjoyed that win.
i like button well enough. i enjoyed that win.
me too... seeing that jarno gave me nothing to cheer about...
i like button well enough. i enjoyed that win.
I enjoyed that win too, I got a big fat bonus out of it
However, speaking to people who still work there things are not looking too good and all these promised major aero updates aren't exactly flying out the factory!
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:30.673 46
2. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:31.213 43
3. Badoer Ferrari (B) 1:31.288 33
4. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:31.654 44
5. Alonso Renault (B) 1:31.731 28
6. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:31.963 97
7. Glock Toyota (B) 1:32.407 33
8. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:32.571 47
9. Hulkenberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:33.102 53
10. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) no time 33
11. Piquet Renault (B) no time 1
damp most of the day...
How can Nakajima do 33 laps and not set a time?
Maybe he kept going through the pits for a but of pit-stop practice to ensure this doesn't happen again:
Classic picture. I also can't understand how he didn't set a time. I don't believe he would have done 33 laps without a single flying lap.
It must have been pit-stop practice and general system tests. I think under the new FIA rules about how many laps can be done during the season in testing only flying laps count so they got some running in but no real data and therefore saved on their testing allowance.
EDIT: Linky from F1-Live
wow... loopholes, loopholes...
the fia sometimes makes you wonder how they can get as many teams as they do with all the rules fiddling they do..
I think the FIA would have encouraged pit-stop practice under these circumstances, if only for the sake of the Williams mechanics!
Also you can never get any really useful data from purely installation laps. Your tires are never hot enough and you don't get any brake disk temperature. There are certain things you can test, basic system controls and some tests you can not run at full speed; I remember seeing Renault run a wheel load cell sensor and they could not run flat-out with that installed so only did installation laps, maybe Williams where doing something similar?
yeah, could be... then again. lol.
i think you make a very valid point though... just at first sight... seemed like maybe they were trying to get around the rules.
Barcelona, dry track
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 1:22.153 32
2. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:22.185 64
3. de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:22.208 92
4. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:22.213 95
5. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:22.248 108
6. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:22.477 81
7. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:22.499 102
8. Badoer Ferrari (B) 1:22.535 102
9. Alonso Renault (B) 1:22.657 61
10. Glock Toyota (B) 1:22.901 109
11. Piquet Renault (B) 1:23.286 104
12. Kobayashi Toyota (B) 1:24.132 56
13. Hulkenberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:24.222 59
Valencia top 3! damp in the morning
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber (B) 1:12.258 59
2. Kubica BMW-Sauber (B) 1:12.293 70
3. Klien BMW-Sauber (B) 1:23.857 32
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 1:22.153 32
2. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:22.185 64
3. de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:22.208 92
4. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:22.213 95
5. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:22.248 108
6. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:22.477 81
7. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:22.499 102
8. Badoer Ferrari (B) 1:22.535 102
9. Alonso Renault (B) 1:22.657 61
10. Glock Toyota (B) 1:22.901 109
11. Piquet Renault (B) 1:23.286 104
12. Kobayashi Toyota (B) 1:24.132 56
13. Hulkenberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:24.222 59
Valencia top 3! damp in the morning
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber (B) 1:12.258 59
2. Kubica BMW-Sauber (B) 1:12.293 70
3. Klien BMW-Sauber (B) 1:23.857 32
Unofficial Tuesday times from Barcelona:
1. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 1:21.234
2. Heikki Kovalainen, McLaren, 1:21.434
3. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, 1:21.722
4. Nico Rosberg, Williams, 1:22.309
5. Felipe Massa, Ferrari, 1:22.513
6. Giancarlo Fisichella, Force India, 1:22.516
7. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 1:22.558
8. Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber, 1:22.625
..............
9. Jenson Button, Honda, 1:22.659
10. Vitantonio Liuzzi, Force India, 1:22.942
11. Kazuki Nakajima, Williams, 1:22.977
12. Jarno Trulli, Toyota, 1:23.023
13. Fernando Alonso, Renault, 1:23.112
14. Rubens Barrichello, Honda, 1:23.169
15. Nick Heidfeld, BMW Sauber, 1:23.284
16. Sebastien Bourdais, Toro Rosso, 1:23.323
17. Mark Webber, Red Bull, 1:23.458
18. Nelson Piquet Jr, Renault, 1:23.467
19. Timo Glock, Toyota, 1:23.561
1. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, 1:21.234
2. Heikki Kovalainen, McLaren, 1:21.434
3. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, 1:21.722
4. Nico Rosberg, Williams, 1:22.309
5. Felipe Massa, Ferrari, 1:22.513
6. Giancarlo Fisichella, Force India, 1:22.516
7. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 1:22.558
8. Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber, 1:22.625
..............
9. Jenson Button, Honda, 1:22.659
10. Vitantonio Liuzzi, Force India, 1:22.942
11. Kazuki Nakajima, Williams, 1:22.977
12. Jarno Trulli, Toyota, 1:23.023
13. Fernando Alonso, Renault, 1:23.112
14. Rubens Barrichello, Honda, 1:23.169
15. Nick Heidfeld, BMW Sauber, 1:23.284
16. Sebastien Bourdais, Toro Rosso, 1:23.323
17. Mark Webber, Red Bull, 1:23.458
18. Nelson Piquet Jr, Renault, 1:23.467
19. Timo Glock, Toyota, 1:23.561
WOW!! i just saw this!!!
os Driver Team Time Laps
1. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:20.801 83
2. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:21.258 76
3. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:21.293 77
4. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:21.309 87
5. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:21.368 91
6. Piquet Renault (B) 1:21.443 114
7. Alonso Renault (B) 1:21.454 128
8. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 1:21.796 124
9. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1:21.933 80
10. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:22.011 88
11. Glock Toyota (B) 1:22.155 49
12. Fisichella Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:22.233 90
13. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:22.286 49
14. Kubica BMW-Sauber (B) 1:22.299 93
15. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:22.465 79
16. Sutil Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:22.521 97
17. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber (B) 1:22.624 61
18. Wurz Honda (B) 1:24.154 82
19. Button Honda (B) 1:24.275 73
os Driver Team Time Laps
1. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:20.801 83
2. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:21.258 76
3. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:21.293 77
4. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:21.309 87
5. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:21.368 91
6. Piquet Renault (B) 1:21.443 114
7. Alonso Renault (B) 1:21.454 128
8. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 1:21.796 124
9. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1:21.933 80
10. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:22.011 88
11. Glock Toyota (B) 1:22.155 49
12. Fisichella Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:22.233 90
13. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:22.286 49
14. Kubica BMW-Sauber (B) 1:22.299 93
15. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:22.465 79
16. Sutil Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:22.521 97
17. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber (B) 1:22.624 61
18. Wurz Honda (B) 1:24.154 82
19. Button Honda (B) 1:24.275 73
Only rumbles.
I don't think McLaren (or in this case, MES) would be that stupid personally, but then... after their behaviour last season, I also wouldn't be at all surprised.
It's still astonishing as to why MES were given the contract over Magnet Marelli even before Spygate.
R.Youden said:
At the time I wrote my post, the thread was here. I've not had chance to read it since then, so as to whether the rumbles are ongoing I have no idea.
R.Youden said:
Well, Trulli has stated that he thought something odd was afoot with other teams.
And it's been intimated by a poster (AFCA) in that thread that Honda have discovered a bug with the MES. Given your sources, it'd be interesting to know if that has some substance or not.
pachyderm said:
Wow, Honda really are screwed aren't they.
FIA gave the deal to Microsoft because they gave the lowest quote. Simple really. Although MM have been produce ECU's for years and most teams use them the FIA went with the Mclaren ECU which is a different shape and size to the MM unit. So all those teams who have used the MM had to change the design of the engine covers etc around the new Mclaren unit.
Another example of involving more costs and not cutting them.
Another example of involving more costs and not cutting them.
The way I remember it all working out is as follows:
When the FIA announced that they where going to have a standard ECU no team really supported the idea, let alone the ECU manufacturers. Anyway the big three ECU manufacturers, Pi, MES and MM, all got together and decided that they should not bid for the contract, therefore if no-one bid then no company would be awarded the contract and no-one would loose out.
Anyway, about 2 weeks before the deadline word started to leak out of the FIA that a small company who make ECUs for another racing series had placed a bid and that if no-one else bid the FIA would have to accept it and award the contract to them. So anyway the big 3 all threw together bids at the last minute and MES managed to get Microsoft backing and they won, primarily because they had a big name technology firm helping them.
Also the MES ECUs are the most stupid shape ever!
I think that it was that shape because McLaren wanted to put the ECU ontop of the gear box and that was the only way to get it to fit. I know this caused Jordan headaches when they ran with MES. Most teams mount the electronics in the side-pod to get decent air-flow for cooling but not McLaren. The Pi units would be a standard shape like so:
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