2009-10 Football Thread

[oscillatewildly]

Michael Turner rumour - Spurs have made a cash plus player offer - reliable source, BBC Ceefax Football Gossip Column.

Youngsters - anyone been watching the Milk Cup* on BBC? Decision making needs to mature - passing and a tendency to over dribble - but some good football. How many of the hundreds of players will make it?

* International Youth Football Tournament in Northern Ireland

Newcastle and Hull - isn't there some nice coast that way?

Toure deal just done.

Cheers,
OW

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Michael Turner rumour - Spurs have made a cash plus player offer - reliable source, BBC Ceefax Football Gossip Column

Indeed - I'd heard that myself. It would depend on the amount of cash and the player(s) involved as to whether it represents a good deal. Essentially, we're talking about an injury-free English player in his mid-twenties who's apparently on the radar of the national team manager - that sort of player doesn't come cheap and any bid must reflect that.

Newcastle and Hull - isn't there some nice coast that way?

There is indeed - the Yorkshire coast is fine, and once you get north of Newcastle the coast is lovely too. Are you thinking of a holiday?

 

[swiftaw]

Indeed - I'd heard that myself. It would depend on the amount of cash and the player(s) involved as to whether it represents a good deal. Essentially, we're talking about an injury-free English player in his mid-twenties who's apparently on the radar of the national team manager - that sort of player doesn't come cheap and any bid must reflect that.

I heard it was Pascal Chimbonda

 

[gauchogolfer]

It's nice to see that Arsenal are at their customary place at the top of the table this time of year.

 

[OllyW]

It's nice to see that Arsenal are at their customary place at the top of the table this time of year.

And Wolves are bottom.

Oh well, the only way is up!

 

[oscillatewildly]

Jaffa Cake - coast - had family Leeds way and travelled to the seaside a few times during summer holidays, also always liked the view from the train on the Newcastle to Edinburgh stretch. No holiday planned, just thought Hull could make use of the coast in a Michael Owen style brochure

Cheers,
OW

 

[daneoni]

What the hell are Arsenal up to in this transfer season?
Let's see who's departed, and who's come in.

Departed:

• Adebayor
• Toure

Arrived:

• Vermaelen

I don't like the balance of those two lists. Nor do I like the lack of activity in trying to really improve the team. I have a lot of faith in AW, but that only takes you so far when there's no hardware to show for it recently.

The way things are going something's gonna give eventually in terms of that top 4 spot and then things will get ugly.

...then again it can be argued that the season hasn't started so 'there's still time.' Yeah...

 

[Silencio]

Aren't Adebayor and Toure's departures more like addition by subtraction for Arsenal? Ade's inconsistency was maddening to see last year, and Toure apparently feuded with William Gallas and was therefore deemed expendable.

Arsenal does need to add another attacker. Huntelaar would be perfect for them.

I'm not convinced at all that City will break into the top four this season, nor that Arsenal will drop out of it. If either Adebayor or Tevez fall out of favor up front I can see a lot of disruptive sulking going on in Eastlands.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

The way things are going something's gonna give eventually in terms of that top 4 spot and then things will get ugly.

Manchester city is a big factor - will they play well or not? They are certainly terrible value for the money at the moment, but have a lot of decent players (one might say too many for their own good). If Man City start slowly, there is still Everton to worry about. And, who knows? Maybe neither of those clubs end up playing well and Spurs or Villa go on yet another "break into the top 4" run? Arsenal should really be checking their 6 these days, even though I still think they are good enough to stay top 4. Injuries will be a key factor for them IMO.

A propos, The "other team from Liverpool" will be playing in the US today, as Everton face the MLS All-Stars. It's a battle of American veteran keepers as US Number One Tim Howard faces aging but decorated former US Number One Kasey Kellar.

Apparently Liverpool have valued Xabi Alonso at 30 million (pounds I believe), and Real are somewhere near 25. I still think we should keep him if possible, but he seems like he wants to go.

 

[DiamondMac]

City has done a very good job upgrading overall talent but I still don't see their midfield nor chemistry enough to kick into the Top 4 just yet.

Now, I could be wrong and maybe they will knock Arsenal down to 5 but I still see clear favorites in Chelsea, Liverpool, and United

 

[Jaffa Cake]

It's nice to see that Arsenal are at their customary place at the top of the table this time of year.

The way I see it, you're also joint-bottom.

Wenger out!

I heard it was Pascal Chimbonda

That's the key name I've heard, too. Give us him, Huddlestone, and (M) Dawson – along with £10million – and we can maybe start discussions.

 

[gauchogolfer]

The way I see it, you're also joint-bottom.

Wenger out!

The official Premier League standings at the moment:


see ... top of the table.

 

[davidjearly]

Stunning victory for Dynamo Moscow.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

The official Premier League standings at the moment...

I note that you've not clicked on the Form Guide at the bottom, to show us your team's recent form. How long is it since you actually last won in the League – it's got to be a few months now?

I'll say it again – Wenger out!

 

[gauchogolfer]

I note that you've not clicked on the Form Guide at the bottom, to show us your team's recent form. How long is it since you actually last won in the League – it's got to be a few months now?

Shhhh.

 

[XIII]

Quite interesting isn't it.. City really have got quite a squad of players.

I don't really know what to make of Arsenal.. take the Adebayor transfer and the Toure transfer and look at them sensibly and the money and the players makes very good sense, so I'm happy in that way - but it leaves our squad light. Despite the departures I still see our most important position that needs strengthening as defensive midfield. Defensively I guess Vermaleen and Gallas would be the top pairing (still no tall defender, brilliant), with Senderos and Djourou as backup (we won't mention the other Frenchman who can't even be classed as backup). Offensively last season we coped basically without Eduardo for the whole thing, who is fit this time round, and we had to cope with Adebayor - so without him and with Eduardo I can only see huge improvements in that area so far from the summer transfer dealings. Midfield - need that Fabregas partner...

My prediction - no more signings. Seriously!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

My prediction - no more signings. Seriously!

Interesting...I'm not surprised Adebayor left, and there is some question as to whether he can rediscover his form from two seasons ago, so getting rid of him makes sense (especially considering the payout from Man City).

What puzzles me is why they would sell the players and then not spend at least the money made from the sales on some additions in the areas you've mentioned. It would be ridiculous for anyone to suggest that Wenger doesn't know what he's doing, but very few people seem to have any idea what he is doing right now besides saying that the squad is good enough.

I guess that's why they pay him the big bucks, to use an American colloquialism.

The MLS All-Star game ended in victory for Everton on penalties - the first time the MLS has been beaten in such a game. I'm not upset though because the hero of the match was our own Tim Howard, who made a slew of quality saves for Everton during the match and during the penalty shootout. Freddy Ljungberg missed the final penalty to hand the match to Liverpool's other team.

I hope Howard is in similar form for our big WC qualifying match in Mexico City.

One odd incident occurred during the game: MLS keeper Kasey Keller was subbed out at the beginning of the second half, but his replacement picked up an injury - so, with David Moyes' consent, Keller went back on to finish the game, as the MLS squad had brought only two keepers.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

One odd incident occurred during the game: MLS keeper Kasey Keller was subbed out at the beginning of the second half, but his replacement picked up an injury - so, with David Moyes' consent, Keller went back on to finish the game, as the MLS squad had brought only two keepers.

Nice and sporting by Moyes – I suppose though that having an outfield player in goal wouldn't be in his team's best interests. This match would have been arranged with the intention of providing a stern pre-season test for his players, having an emergency 'keeper isn't really going to help his strikers hone their sharpness and the States is a long way to go to let a match turn essentially into a training ground exercise.

However, from the MLS point of view a golden chance has been missed. There is no better thing in football than an outfield player in goal, and seeing a nervous looking midfielder standing between the sticks in an ill-fitting goalie shirt would surely whet the American appetite for pinko commie Euro soccerball. Forget hosting the World Cup, forget American players proving themselves in Europe, forget even the arrival of David Beckham – if there was one thing that was going to get the US to cast aside their shiny helmets and don Accrington Stanley shirts this was it.

~Arsenal musings~

While I'd agree that these transfers don't leave Arsenal quite as weakened as some think, the fact does remain that they do need an injection of new talent, that midfield spot you mention being a key position. Wenger must know this, but again it looks like a new player won't be arriving in that position.

Let's face it, Arsenal need to be playing in the Champions League if only for the finances it brings in – they've had some warning shots in the past few seasons but have managed to hold on to a top four position. Manchester City's new found wealth should be ringing some serious alarm bells at the Emirates, it's no stretch of the imagination to see them challenging Arsenal for their place – maybe not this season perhaps, but certainly in the long term. Their rivals are strengthening considerably, Arsenal need to do so to otherwise they seriously risk being overtaken.

 

[XIII]

Nice and sporting by Moyes – I suppose though that having an outfield player in goal wouldn't be in his team's best interests. This match would have been arranged with the intention of providing a stern pre-season test for his players, having an emergency 'keeper isn't really going to help his strikers hone their sharpness and the States is a long way to go to let a match turn essentially into a training ground exercise.

However, from the MLS point of view a golden chance has been missed. There is no better thing in football than an outfield player in goal, and seeing a nervous looking midfielder standing between the sticks in an ill-fitting goalie shirt would surely whet the American appetite for pinko commie Euro soccerball. Forget hosting the World Cup, forget American players proving themselves in Europe, forget even the arrival of David Beckham – if there was one thing that was going to get the US to cast aside their shiny helmets and don Accrington Stanley shirts this was it.

While I'd agree that these transfers don't leave Arsenal quite as weakened as some think, the fact does remain that they do need an injection of new talent, that midfield spot you mention being a key position. Wenger must know this, but again it looks like a new player won't be arriving in that position.

Let's face it, Arsenal need to be playing in the Champions League if only for the finances it brings in – they've had some warning shots in the past few seasons but have managed to hold on to a top four position. Manchester City's new found wealth should be ringing some serious alarm bells at the Emirates, it's no stretch of the imagination to see them challenging Arsenal for their place – maybe not this season perhaps, but certainly in the long term. Their rivals are strengthening considerably, Arsenal need to do so to otherwise they seriously risk being overtaken.

This is from Arseblog, about the spending, I thought it was interesting:

What is interesting to note though is that very few clubs are buying players at the moment. United raked in £80m from Ronaldo, spent £20m on Valencia and that French bloke who looks like Sylvester's son plus a cheapo deal for Michael Owen and that's it. Liverpool bought a right back half funded by money they were owed by Portsmouth while Chelsea have signed Zhirkov and nobody else.

Look at who is spending money. Real Madrid, gone mad with the money. Man City, throwing cash around like they're playing football monopoly, and Barcelona have paid Inter Milan the best part of €50m + Eto'o for a striker who isn't nearly as good as the one they've let go. So there seems to be a kind of madness around the transfer market at the moment. We're not buying, that's for sure, but neither is anyone else. It's odd.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

It's a fair point. Outside of the Real and Manchester City transfers, where are the other big money moves this summer? As of yet, they've not really materialised – of course though, there are still several weeks left in the transfer window so there's still plenty of time for deals to go through. The important thing though isn't making lots of high-profile, big money transfers, one or two prudent purchases where a team really needs strengthening are what you need. As mentioned though, Arsenal do seem to have a problem midfield position that has needed to be filled for a while and that still hasn't been properly addressed.

On this subject, we've come under a lot of criticism for our lack of purchases – but looking at the clubs we'd expect to be around us next season, most haven't made many more signings than we have. The newly promoted sides have naturally had to strengthen, and a couple of clubs have made a number of purchases – but we're not really that far behind anyone else, most only having brought one or two new faces in. I think the fact that we've had a couple of high profile snubs – which naturally have been leapt on by the media with considerable relish – make the situation look worse than it is.

 

[Fizzoid]

Arsenal do seem to have a problem midfield position that has needed to be filled for a while and that still hasn't been properly addressed.

That's the way I see it too. It's been obvious for a while they're somewhat lacking in certain areas. I think Arshavin addresses the issue up front, but they really do need some bite in the defence\midfield area. As you said earlier, the sales of Adebayor and Toure maybe don't weaken the team as much as some people think, but when the team is already weak in certain areas and there seems to be no interest in adressing the issue (despite Wenger himself admitting he needed to at the end of last season) then worrying times may lie ahead

 

[swiftaw]

It's a fair point. Outside of the Real and Manchester City transfers, where are the other big money moves this summer? As of yet, they've not really materialised – of course though, there are still several weeks left in the transfer window so there's still plenty of time for deals to go through. The important thing though isn't making lots of high-profile, big money transfers, one or two prudent purchases where a team really needs strengthening are what you need. As mentioned though, Arsenal do seem to have a problem midfield position that has needed to be filled for a while and that still hasn't been properly addressed.

On this subject, we've come under a lot of criticism for our lack of purchases – but looking at the clubs we'd expect to be around us next season, most haven't made many more signings than we have. The newly promoted sides have naturally had to strengthen, and a couple of clubs have made a number of purchases – but we're not really that far behind anyone else, most only having brought one or two new faces in. I think the fact that we've had a couple of high profile snubs – which naturally have been leapt on by the media with considerable relish – make the situation look worse than it is.

On this subject, my pessimism over Wigan's fate is starting to subside. Sure, we lost Valencia onver the summer and we lost Heskey and Palacios during last season. However, we seem to be one team which has managed to actually sign a few players.

The big thing is we have to keep Cattermole and Scharner, losing them would leave us in a big hole. Also, one more striker would be nice, since I have no idea if Scotland can make the jump.

Also, there are now 4 of us signed up for the Premier League Predictor game: Myself, Jaffa Cake, Lord Blackadder, and gauchogolfer. Still plenty of time to sign up (iknowthescore.premierleague.com/). PM me for the code to the Macrumors mini-league.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

if there was one thing that was going to get the US to cast aside their shiny helmets and don Accrington Stanley shirts this was it.

American soccer fans saw the All-Star game almost as a derby between the MLS and all the Euro-snobs who don't take the league seriously (or rather, don't take notice of the league). So it would have been a major blow to have played the last half hour plus the crucial penalties with an outfield playe in goal (unless it was Deano). The first half was pretty exciting, the second half was much less so. Fellaini and Jo are real threats in the air, but I'm proud to say that Columbus center back Chad Marshall dealt with them comfortably, and also kept Louis Saha under wraps - who, I must add, tackles about as well has Michael Ballack. Had this been a competitive match Saha would probably have been sent off for a second yellow.

This is from Arseblog, about the spending, I thought it was interesting:

So there seems to be a kind of madness around the transfer market at the moment. We're not buying, that's for sure, but neither is anyone else. It's odd.

Actually, now that I think about it, it does make sense. We should be expecting a massive financial hangover from the recent recession; a lot of owners lost huge piles of money over the last year. Most clubs should be tightening their belts, and that is exactly what appears to be happening except in a couple cases: Man U made a lot of money from the Ronaldo deal and therefore has money to spend; Real Madrid has a stupifyingly large government slush fund or crooked loan deal to work with; Man Cty has a Middle Eastern Royal family behind them. Almost everyone else is keeping it real.

So I suppose it makes sense that Arsenal aren't buying either - except that, since they just sold Ade and Toure (for a total rumored to be in excess of 40 million pounds), one would think they'd be able to afford at least one new quality player?

EDIT: Arsene must have read my post here, since the BBC quotes a response:

I feel we are strong enough but if we can add then we will do it. In England, people think all problems can be sorted out by buying players.

[BBC - Arsenal have been linked with a host of players this summer but Wenger says the club are not "close to signing anyone at the moment"]

We have money available so for us it is now (important) to spend it in the right way when we do it or if we do it.

So there you have it, from the man himself.

 

[Fizzoid]

EDIT: Arsene must have read my post here, since the BBC quotes a response:



So there you have it, from the man himself.

Hmm, that's not what he was saying last month, or at the end of the season!

Wenger admits Arsenal defensive concerns
07.06.09 | Ian Ferris

Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger wants to improve his side's defence over the summer.

The Gunners conceded 37 goals as they finished fourth in the Premier League in 2008/09, 18 points behind champions Manchester United.

"The last season was very interesting because we had a sloppy start and then we became stronger and stronger," said the Frenchman.

"It has been interesting as well because it is a very young team, but they have been tested mentally.

"The defensive record, that is an area that we want to work on and that we want to improve."

Is Vermaelen soley the answer to last season's problems?

 

[Lord Blackadder]

What I take from this is that Arsene thinks the present squad is good enough...and that he may buy players, but has no plans to do so at present.

This view seems somewhat at odds with the punters and pundits, eh?