2009-10 Football Thread

[smwatson]

Well well well, where do we start with the football?

Hull City, urgh, what a nightmare. Our signings had been OK at best during the summer and to loose Turner was such a huge blow, especially as the fee could be as low as £4 million. I don't blame the lad for wanting to improve his football and I am sure he has a great future, but it tells you a lot about the management at the club when a player wants to move to a club that only finished one place above us last season. If he had gone to a 'big 4' fair play to the lad, but Sunderland!

There is something fishy going on within the club. One week they had £12 million to spend and then they sell our star player for between £12 and £4 million (make that £8 million) so who did we splash the £20 million out on on transfer deadline day, no-one. Not even a sniff.

Your chairman (whose name slips my mind) said there would be a big deal one minute, then no deals the next, and now you've signed a striker with an average strike rate in the Dutch league and the SPL - neither of which come close to top level Premiership quality. He average 11 goals a season in Scotland. I'd put money on him not scoring 10 this season.

Then there's the hilarious press release after the signing. Claiming you'd fought off "big clubs in Europe" (Bristol City?)...

And loads of players rejected you this summer... Zamora, Owen, Campbell (Frazier), Murphy, Fortune....

Somethings being hidden. I think it's probably Phil Brown. The orange idiot that he is.
Or there's financial trouble behind the scenes. Or nobody wants to play for Hull, the club that can proudly boast to have the most cringeworthy tinpot chant in history, with it's "mauled by the tigers" - complete with arm waving.

 

[Fizzoid]

now you've signed a striker with an average strike rate in the Dutch league and the SPL - neither of which come close to top level Premiership quality.

To be fair to Hull, they're not a top level Premiership team either. It's not as if they're trying to break into the top 4, but simply survive another season

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Or nobody wants to play for Hull, the club that can proudly boast to have the most cringeworthy tinpot chant in history, with it's "mauled by the tigers" - complete with arm waving.

Aye, that'll be us.

 

[smwatson]

To be fair to Hull, they're not a top level Premiership team either. It's not as if they're trying to break into the top 4, but simply survive another season

Need goals to stay up though. The only way Hull will stay up this season is by virtue of there being so many other average teams in the Premiership. They only need to beat Bolton, Blackburn, Birmingham etc and scrape some draws elsewhere and they'll be fine. 35 points will probably be enough this season.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I think people need to be careful not to blame Phil Brown for everything - if he's made a scapegoat it could just be papering over the cracks. And it seems that Hull City are simply going to have a hard time signing players in the short term because they are a lower-table club apparently location is a factor as well. If they can solidify their grip on the Premier League they may find it easier to sign players.

For shame, El Nino.

It looks like he jumped the defender, but as soon as he felt he was off-balance he threw himself down. Tsk Tsk.

I'm all for cracking down on the dives - Eduardo was made an example of, so here's UEFA's opportunity to be consistent, grow a pair and start hitting every player with a ban when they do dive. Ignore the clubs' complaints, just start banning.

Based on video evidence, it looks like Rooney and Torres could be next.

 

[xUKHCx]

For shame, El Nino.

I'm not claiming Torres is squeaky clean but that particular footage doesn't really represent the situation.

Torres didn't try claiming for a penalty and from the different angles you can see more contact and how it would cause him to lose balance, the commentators went over it a fair few times and agreed it was a good tackle they didn't suggest it was a dive.

However I am sure you could fine other instances where he has dived.

Personally I think the Eduardo 2 match ban is silly and will likely cause lots of other controversies.

I think the Chelsea transfer ban is really quite extreme and the punishment could seriously affect them over the next two years if it is up held.

 

[Fizzoid]

Penalty claim or not, it is rather theatrical

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Torres didn't try claiming for a penalty and from the different angles you can see more contact and how it would cause him to lose balance, the commentators went over it a fair few times and agreed it was a good tackle they didn't suggest it was a dive.

Fair enough. For me, the movement of the head and arms is suspicious - as if an imaginary arm had clothes-lined him in the chest. He was certainly "playing for the penalty", if not quite diving. For what it's worth, it definitely looks as if he loses his balance before throwing his arms up and his head back.

Personally I think the Eduardo 2 match ban is silly and will likely cause lots of other controversies.

I think it could be good for the game IF (and it's an admittedly big if) UEFA are consistent in their rulings and don't allow themselves to be intimidated by big clubs. Unfortunately, it's more likey that such bans will be applied inconsistently or the punishments will be watered down into insignificance.

People can say, with some legitimacy, that Celtic were never going to win that game, but after that dive they almost never had the slightest chance to do so - because of cheating. I think that is an actionable offense, so I think it's right to punish the cheater.

When a dive is seen by hundreds of millions of people like that it just seems silly for Wenger to be able to brush it off with a bunch of vague language and have the whole matter dropped. And Arsenal are by no means the only ones doing this (Ryan Babel did the same against Arsenal in the CL, Ronaldo and Rooney have done it before on high profile occasions, among many others).

Enforcing bans against diving like this will be controversial (and will probably fail if history is any guide), but I can't think of a good argument against punishing this cheating.

SAF backs the Eduardo ban - which will make things interesting if UEFA are serious, because I'd be willing to bet that at least one United player is going to flagrantly dive before the season ends...and I want to hear from him and see if he is similarly philosophical when the shoe is on the other foot.

 

[DiamondMac]

and from the different angles you can see more contact and how it would cause him to lose balance

Yea, I don't think so.

It is obvious he is falling down due to the air.

 

[Nieval]

SAF backs the Eduardo ban - which will make things interesting if UEFA are serious, because I'd be willing to bet that at least one United player is going to flagrantly dive before the season ends...and I want to hear from him and see if he is similarly philosophical when the shoe is on the other foot.

Simple, he'll just do what Wenger is doing now, deny it was a dive. Would any other manager, be it one you liked or disliked, do otherwise?

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Simple, he'll just do what Wenger is doing now, deny it was a dive. Would any other manager, be it one you liked or disliked, do otherwise?

Well, in that article he actually explained it pretty frankly - any manager would protect his player...and I expect him to do just that. It will still be amusing, however, to hear him express indignation at a ban he supported against an opposing team's player, that's all. Ferguson is a past-master in gamesmanship, and would see no irony in it at all, or rather wouldn't care.

 

[Nieval]

Well, in that article he actually explained it pretty frankly - any manager would protect his player...and I expect him to do just that. It will still be amusing, however, to hear him express indignation at a ban he supported against an opposing team's player, that's all. Ferguson is a past-master in gamesmanship, and would see no irony in it at all, or rather wouldn't care.

Well he has been turning a blind eye to Ronaldo's diving over the years and i've only heard it being brought up once. So in a way you've already got your answer i suppose.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Like I said before, no manager would do differently. Managers like Ferguson, Benitez, Wenger, Mourinho, Ancelotti and the like are put on the spot much more because they care contesting the big trophies.

In US news, three refs here in the states have been removed from the MLS rotation, one for consistently poor performances (among other things, he accepted a players' jersey after a match) and two for failing mid season fitness tests. It's a tough, thankless job in any league - even more so in a smaller market like MLS.

 

[ozziememz]

 

[BoyBach]

Torres didn't try claiming for a penalty...

To be fair, neither did Eduardo, yet he still got banned.

It is obvious he is falling down due to the air.

Sniper in the Lower East Stand?

 

[Fuzzy14]

I heard some bollox on the radio the other night that FIFA/UEFA are introducing two more assistant referees behind the goal line to help assist the referees in dodgy goals, pushing and 'simulation.' This was trialed in the U19s but didn't really work so now they are going to roll it out into the Europa Cup and eventually any big tournament (Cham League, World Cup.)

So that means there will now be 7 refs required for every big game, count em, the man in the middle, two linesman, 4th official with the number board, 5th official in the stand and now the two behind the goals! Absolute madness!

And what are the additional refs going to see? Absolutely nothing, their view will be obstructed most of the time. And if there is a dodgy decision are they going to have a committee meeting in the middle of the pitch? Why oh why oh why don't they use TV evidence, it will take 1 ref with a Sky+ box 10 seconds to work it out.

 

[HE15MAN]

Go Gators

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Go Gators

 

[Jaffa Cake]

I think people need to be careful not to blame Phil Brown for everything - if he's made a scapegoat it could just be papering over the cracks.

Ah, but we love our scapegoats – out with the manager, sack the board, this player isn't good enough, this other one's lazy, get rid of another one and this one isn't fit to wear the shirt. Nowt like a bit of knee-jerking.

Brown's a very visible figure with lots of things for people to latch on to – the tan, the earpiece, the short-lived goatee (although it's always amusing to see those who lambasted him for criticising Fabregas' attire fall back to type and resort to slagging off Brown's appearance themselves ), that team talk and him joining in with one of the supporter's chants after we'd stayed up last season - all stuff he's received repeated roastings for.

Ultimately, like any manager he should be judged on his results and he's done all that we've asked of him so far.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Ah, but we love our scapegoats – out with the manager, sack the board, this player isn't good enough, this other one's lazy, get rid of another one and this one isn't fit to wear the shirt.

...and, in the case of Liverpool "Yanks Out", as if removing the American element would change everything *cough* Glazers *cough*. You'd definitely be much better off with an English owner like Mike Ashley.

I agree, there will always be knee-jerk reactions from fans, encouraged or rather sensationalized by the media.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

...and, in the case of Liverpool "Yanks Out", as if removing the American element would change everything *cough* Glazers *cough*. You'd definitely be much better of with an English manager like Mike Ashley.

Indeed your Lordship – Randy Lerner seems to be doing well with his stewardship of Aston Villa, proof that you crazy Yanks can turn your minds to a bit of soccerball ownership in a proper manner . It's the attitude and approach of the owners that's key, not their nationality.

When the 'Ashley Out' furore was at its peak, there were naturally strings of vox pops with Geordie supporters saying who they wanted running the club instead. One young man was adamant that the failure of Ashley and his cohorts was due to the fact that they were southerners, and as such 'don't understand us Geordies, 'cos they're not from Newcastle.'

'Who would you rather have running the club?' asked the reporter.

'Dunno... maybe some Middle East consortium' came the reply.

 

[pachyderm]

Bury 0 - 2 Accrington Stanley
83' 1 Robert Grant
85' 2 Robert Grant

2-O-4

 

[Lord Blackadder]

So, England triumph over Slovenia, spearheaded by a diving Rooney...

USA 2-1 El Salvador. Clint Dempsey with a nice header and Jozy Altidore with an even better one, both from Landon Donovan deliveries...Altidore would have had a brace but his second goal was inexplicably ruled out. Three points closer to qualification, but I have to say I did not agree with Bob Bradley's substitutions though. Columbus Crew defender Chad Marshall once again distinguished himself in the middle - I think he's definitely headed to South Africa.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Well done that Jozy - good to see he'll be returning to Englandshire with a winning (and goalscoring) mentality.

Incidentally, I treated myself earlier - our local sports emporium had a variety of foreign club shirts for sale cheap, and lo and behold they just so happened to have a Crew away shirt in my size! I couldn't resist...

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

So, England triumph over Slovenia, spearheaded by a diving Rooney...

Yeah, I'm eagerly expecting a lengthy ban for that one: Not only did he dive, but he actually tore the shirt of and put his spikes into the poor Slovenian's ankle. Should probably have been a yellow card and free kick the other way, and Shrek managed to whine himself into a penalty.