2009-10 Football Thread

[Lord Blackadder]

Well, damn and blast.

I still don't see any point in Benitez going until the summer at least - and even if he does go, we can't afford another top manager. This club has many issues and the manager is not the biggest.

Some pundits on the podcasts/internet have been saying that the FA Cup was Liverpool's biggest hope and this loss is crushing and will see Benitez off. I disagree; if you're a bottom half club you're worried that a cup run will stretch your squad too far and risk relegation. If you're a top four (five?) club, the FA Cup is not as big a priority as European football or a title push. In other words, I bet most clubs would rather finish fourth in the league than win the FA Cup. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the history of the cup, but your average Johnny Foreigner doesn't really care about it, and it's all about money these days anyway.

We need to finish fourth. That's the goal. Everything else, including the FA Cup/Carling Cup/Europa League is a distraction and beyond the means of our limited, demoralized squad.

Plus Torres & Gerrard are both hurt as well as super-sub Yossi Benayoun. We are so ****ed at the moment it's funny, in a sadistic sort of way.

 

[IntheNet]

What strikes me as odd about the FC Dallas shirts (and the others that use the same template) is that the Adidas logo is very high up on the shoulder/collar – it should have been on the same hoop as the crest.

The traditional authentic FC Dallas home jersey, see image below, features the white Adidas logo dead center in front, just below the neckline, on a red background.

The new MLS kit for FC Dallas, see image below, features the Adidas logo to the right (from a player's perspective) of the neckline.

The placement of the Adidas [white] logo high (on a red or blue background) was necessary due to white field immediately below it; it could not be placed on the same hoop as crest, as you suggest, or lower due to color scheme. Not odd at all - we pay attention to such things on this side of the pond in the MLS...

 

[smwatson]

Liverpool's season is officially over.

Two of the big four out in the 3rd round, both playing at home, and both against lower league opposition. Fantastic.

 

[CarlisleUnited]

Well, damn and blast.

I still don't see any point in Benitez going until the summer at least - and even if he does go, we can't afford another top manager. This club has many issues and the manager is not the biggest.

Some pundits on the podcasts/internet have been saying that the FA Cup was Liverpool's biggest hope and this loss is crushing and will see Benitez off. I disagree; if you're a bottom half club you're worried that a cup run will stretch your squad too far and risk relegation. If you're a top four (five?) club, the FA Cup is not as big a priority as European football or a title push. In other words, I bet most clubs would rather finish fourth in the league than win the FA Cup. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the history of the cup, but your average Johnny Foreigner doesn't really care about it, and it's all about money these days anyway.

We need to finish fourth. That's the goal. Everything else, including the FA Cup/Carling Cup/Europa League is a distraction and beyond the means of our limited, demoralized squad.

You gotta worry though, if both Torres and Gerrard have bad news on the injury front there is very little hope for the Champions League. At least you got in Maxi Rodriguez

 

[smwatson]

The placement of the Adidas [white] logo high (on a red or blue background) was necessary due to white field immediately below it; it could not be placed on the same hoop as crest, as you suggest, or lower due to color scheme. Not odd at all - we pay attention to such things on this side of the pond in the MLS...

Adidas logo comes in all kinds of colours though... blue, red, black...

 

[Lord Blackadder]

You gotta worry though, if both Torres and Gerrard have bad news on the injury front there is very little hope for the Champions League. At least you got in Maxi Rodriguez

At this point, we are relying on other clubs to stumble, so losing those two is less damaging than it could have been. Neither has been playing up to their usual standards of late anyway.

It will take luck to finish fourth now. Hicks and Gillette have pretty much worn out their welcome with most fans, I'm sure they'd sell if they could get the profit margin they demand (which they won't get, because potential buyers know that the club is losing value by the day and will simply wait till the price goes down). I just pray Liverpool don't become the next Newcastle or <gulp> Leeds. Every club in the league except Man City, Chelsea and probably Arsenal are in the same risky position; a couple bad seasons can bring it all tumbling down.

We need to hope that Aquilani and Rodriguez actually turn out to be good signings... <shudders>

Liverpool's lineup for the second half of the Reading match: Cavalieri, Degen, Carragher, Agger, Insua, Lucas, Aquilani, Kuyt, Babel, Benayoun, Ngog. Oh. Dear. Our current place in the league looks about right....

 

[smwatson]

At this point, we are relying on other clubs to stumble, so losing those two is less damaging than it could have been. Neither has been playing up to their usual standards of late anyway.

It will take luck to finish fourth now. Hicks and Gillette have pretty much worn out there welcome with most fans, I'm sure they'd sell if they could get the profit margin they demand (which they won't get, because potential buyers know that the club is losing value by the day). I just prey the Liverpool don't become the next Newcastle or <gulp> Leeds.

I would bet my house on Liverpool never being relegated from the Premiership. It just won't happen. Same with all the big four, as a brand the Premiership can't afford it. Money rules football as we all know, something would happen that resulted in you staying up. Like how you were shoe-horned into the Champions League when you finished 5th.

In all seriousness though, Man United are in a worse situation financially than Liverpool as far as I'm aware. Though you will suffer hugely without the FA Cup/Champions League revenue that you should be praying hasn't been included in projected income...

There were some interesting articles in The Times the other day about Man U's debt, because they're paying interest on interest and can't pay off the loans until they've paid the interest on the interest on the loan (or something) they're struggling to even keep their debt at the same level. Without the sale of Ronaldo they would have posted a big loss last year. Given that their revenue is so huge, this is a disaster. Factor in no FA Cup revenue this year (HA) and they won't win the Champions League (and probably won't win the Premiership either) and you've got a rocky road ahead for Man U.

Liverpool will suffer similarly, but I assume the guys at the top at Liverpool are a little more conservative with their budgeting and loaning than the Man United board. The season has been a disaster for 'pool and is essentially over, but they'll probably somehow struggle to 4th. Though it's looking increasingly unlikely. Interesting end of the season ahead.

My prediction for the top7 for anyone interested:
1. Chelsea
2. Man U
3. Arsenal
4. City
5/6. Spurs/Liverpool
7. Villa

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I pretty much agree. To be honest, if we can finish fourth I will be totally content for the moment, though I would not be sorry to see the backs of Gillette and Hicks. Benitez I can take or leave. I'm not sure I've seen a good enough reason to sack him yet, even if I think he's not up to par with the Mourinhos and Fergusons.

United certainly have some sketchy finances and could potentially be in a lot of trouble...plus, we all know that their form on the pitch will drop when SAF goes. Ronaldo's transfer has clearly hurt them, and they are going to lose Giggs Scholes and van der Saar. Neville too, but I could outrun him so that's less an issue. They'll still have a pretty formidable squad but not a dominating one anymore and Chelsea are better.

I'm going to predict the following finish, clearly affected by bias though.

1. Chelsea
2. United on goal difference
3. Arsenal
4. Liverpool, by some miracle
5. City, after a major choke down the stretch
6. Villa
7. Spurs with Fulham or Birmingham snapping at their heels

 

[smwatson]

I pretty much agree with you. To be honest, if we can finish fourth I will be totally content for the moment, thohg I would not be sorry to see the backs of Gillette and Hicks. Benitez I can take or leave. I'm not sure I've seen a good enough reason to sack him yet, even if I think he's not up to par with the Mourinhos and Fergusons.

Liverpool will never win the league with Benitez, rotation will never work. He got lucky last season because not only did the excellent spine Liverpool had (Reina - Carragher - Alonso - Gerrard - Torres) play very well, but the stuff that fills in around the edges did too. This season, no Alonso (HUGE loss) and Mascherano has been disappointing, and Aquilani looks like a bad signing.

But he's great in Europe for some reason. I don't know who Liverpool could bring in if he left though. The best thing would be someone young to be honest, try and build success rather than just paying over the odds for a Hiddink or Mourinho and then maybe falling short. That's what Leeds are doing with Grayson and I honestly believe if he stays with us he will lead us to the Premiership and go down in Leeds history as one of the greatest managers we've ever had.

United certainly have some sketchy finances and could potentially be in a lot of trouble...plus, we all know that their form on the pitch will drop when SAF goes. Ronaldo's transfer has clearly hurt them, and they are going to lose Giggs Scholes and van der Saar. Neville too, but I could outrun him so that's less an issue. They'll still have a pertty formidable squad but not a dominating one and Chelsea are better.

The problem with United's squad is that the people who are supposed to be stepping into the shoes of Giggs/Neville/Scholes/Van Der Sar just aren't good enough. The defence without Vidic (leaving) and Ferdinand (injury prone, past his best it seems) is shaky to say the least (see Wes "Comedy Gold" Brown for an example). In midfield, Anderson looks like a huge waste of money, Gibson might make the step up in terms of consistently but equally might not. Valencia isn't now and never will be the next Ronaldo. Ditto for Nani. Berbatov has been a huge flop.

Ferguson doesn't have a good record in the transfer market really, he was lucky that the youngsters coming through to replace the great players he started with (youngsters like Beckham, Neville, Scholes, Giggs) were so good.

Man Utd will be beaten at home this season alot if teams would stop being scared of them and just go there and play. Leeds did that and managed to get a win. Just need people to try and win.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Liverpool will never win the league with Benitez, rotation will never work. He got lucky last season because not only did the excellent spine Liverpool had (Reina - Carragher - Alonso - Gerrard - Torres) play very well, but the stuff that fills in around the edges did too. This season, no Alonso (HUGE loss) and Mascherano has been disappointing, and Aquilani looks like a bad signing.

I don't know, I think the "rotation" bit is over-hyped in the press to be honest. I think it's a question of the thinness of our squad more than anything.

I think we could have won the league with him last season. Turn those draws at Stoke into wins and voila...People would say we were lucky and so on but silverware is silverware. I wouldn't care.

The best thing would be someone young to be honest, try and build success rather than just paying over the odds for a Hiddink or Mourinho and then maybe falling short. That's what Leeds are doing with Grayson and I honestly believe if he stays with us he will lead us to the Premiership and go down in Leeds history as one of the greatest managers we've ever had.

The pressures of managing a top four club are too great for the suits to trust a young manager with a top four club these days in the prem...there is only one Pep Guardiola.

I agree that United's current squad and youngsters seem unable to fill the shoes of the previous "class" of players. When Ronaldo was around they had just enough talent to paper over the cracks, but I'll bet they wish they could trade Berbatove for Tevez...The pinnacle of the footballing world looks to have shifted to Spain at the moment, though Man City and Chelsea still have huge piles of cash to spend.

 

[smwatson]

I don't know, I think the "rotation" bit is over-hyped in the press to be honest. I think it's a question of the thinness of our squad more than anything.

I think we could have won the league with him last season. Turn those draws at Stoke into wins and voila...People would say we were lucky and so on but silverware is silverware. I wouldn't care.

Yeah, well turn Leeds' loss to Doncaster in the play-off final into a win and we might be in the Premiership by now

I know what you mean though. Horrible overused little soundbite, but games against teams like Stoke and Bolton are ones that Premiership winning teams grind out wins in. Apart from Torres and sometimes Gerrard, Liverpool have no cutting edge. You need Babel to come good.

The pressures of managing a top four club are too great for the suits to trust a young manager with a top four club these days in the prem...there is only one Pep Guardiola.

I agree that United's current squad and youngsters seem unable to fill the shoes of the previous "class" of players. When Ronaldo was around they had just enough talent to paper over the cracks, but I'll be they wish they could trade Berbatove for Tevez...

Unfortunately yes, though it would be nice to see what would happen. Southgate did an admirable job at Boro until they just couldn't hold on any longer.

I have a Man Utd supporting friend (it's hard to believe for me too), and he vehemently denies that Tevez is better than Berbatov in any way. Which is just ludicrous. Tevez is pretty much the best player in the Premiership on the moment. Him and Bellamy are unstoppable when they're at their best, City have a superb frontline - it's just a shame that their defence is a bit shaky.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I have a Man Utd supporting friend (it's hard to believe for me too), and he vehemently denies that Tevez is better than Berbatov in any way. Which is just ludicrous. Tevez is pretty much the best player in the Premiership on the moment. Him and Bellamy are unstoppable when they're at their best, City have a superb frontline - it's just a shame that their defence is a bit shaky.

I've heard a lot of people say that Berbatov works just as hard as Tevez, but has a playing style that just looks lazier. I disagree. Tevez sprints up and down the pitch the whole game, and I've never seen him sulk. He'd be a great player to have on any squad.

As to City, I can't give them too many plaudits because

1. Their success may come at Liverpool's expense in the standings
2. They will become the new Man United/Chelsea because of all the money.

But yeah, they are beginning to assemble a dangerous squad now.

 

[NathanCH]

Good discussion guys.


I watched the game this morning and I can't say I'm surprised. A bad call for the penalty? Maybe, but it's not really a problem because Liverpool had 30 minutes to show a championship side trying to avoid relegation why they're in the top four (current season tbd).

I was on a bunch of forums today and people were point fingers at Rafa and Yossi and the other ten players on the pitch. Again, no surprise, this has been happening all season. There is not a single area we can point at and say, "oh that's the problem! How can we fix it?" There problems are everywhere. Some weigh in more than others, but generally everything is lacking.

So for everyone to jump on Rafa and say it's all his fault he needs to go blah blah blah is silly. Is Rafa part of the problem? Questionable signings and even more questionable tactics says he is, but he's not the whole problem. They can make a hasty decision for Rafa to leave but when Liverpool's performance doesn't improve, I won't be surprised.

I don't think there is a single move that will put Liverpool back on the rails to be challenging for a title next season. It's going to be gradual in my opinion.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

The placement of the Adidas [white] logo high (on a red or blue background) was necessary due to white field immediately below it; it could not be placed on the same hoop as crest, as you suggest, or lower due to color scheme. Not odd at all - we pay attention to such things on this side of the pond in the MLS...

There's no reason why - as smwatson rightly points out - the logo couldn't go on the same white hoop as the crest, positioned above 'FC' and coloured to match the dominent red or blue of the shirt in question.

Adidas produce a great many white shirts - their longstanding association with the German national team, for example - and placing the logo on the shirt has never presented a problem in the past. Be it on the right breast or positioned centrally, it's been rendered in a contrasting colour - more often than not a hue used elsewhere on the shirt for aesthetic reasons.

As I mentioned, the positioning of the logo on the collar is common to the other shirts that use this template - it's not unique to FC Dallas due to their hooped design. Several other shirts from the new MLS range share this template, and even where they have a plain front the logo appears on the collar.

 

[OllyW]

I've heard Wolves are trying to sign Stephen Hunt from Hull City.

What do you reckon Jaffa? He seems to have been one of your better players this season, are the finances at the club that bad that you need to cash him in at this stage of the saeson?

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Hunt's been one of our better players this season, certainly he's our leading scorer in the League (from the wing) and is a proper menace to opponents. Selling him would be a bad move in my opinion and won't help our chances of avoiding the drop at all.

Wolves have already had a bid knocked back (in the region of £3million, I believe), but they've now come back to the table with an improved offer. So far as our finances are concerned, it's not so much getting money in from transfers – going forward it's reducing our considerable wage bill that's the priority. Hunt will be one of our better paid players, and although there are squad members we'd be wanting to leave long before him our hand might be forced if we can't shift out a few fringe players this month. I'd expect that if Wolves don't get him with their improved bid and we have trouble reducing our numbers in this window, we might see McCarthy come in again towards the end of the month when we may feel we have little choice but to accept.

Rumours of Hunt going haven't been met well amongst the Tiger Nation, I can tell you...

EDIT: EDIT: There's been speculation about a Hull City press conference called today which is taking place in the Midlands – some are saying that it's to announce a new signing, or that the odd location is because Hunt is off to Wolves so for some reason we're going to announce it in the Midlands (note: when a transfer is being broached and the two clubs agree to meet each other halfway, they don't mean literally ). On this matter, the club has just released the following statement...

Contrary to speculation, the press conference being held by the Club today is the normal pre-match one to preview Saturday's fixture against Spurs.

The change of venue to Ashby de la Zouche is purely down to the fact that the recent weather conditions have meant that the squad have had to find alternative training facilities outside of Hull.

Regarding Stephen Hunt, the Club is now becoming bored of continual speculation within the local media surrounding his future and would like to place on the record that the player is not for sale. The Club will not be commenting any further on speculation in relation to this player. He is not for sale.

 

[capoeirista]

Liverpool will never win the league with Benitez, rotation will never work.

I'm pretty sure the last MUFC game was the 100th different squad SAF has played in as many games. They've done alright recently haven't they?

As for Tevez being the best player in the league? I disagree. For me he's a rich man's Dirk Kuyt. That said, I'm really struggling to think of someone who has shone for me this season..... Lee Bowyer?

On a slightly lower league level, big weekend for me. Colchester United vs Norwich City. In the away fixture (1st game of the season) we (CUFC) beat them 1-7. A few days later they poach our manager. Compensation still hasn't been settled, and there will be a lot of bad blood at the weekend I feel. That said, it's the first time our new stadium has sold out, so it should be a cracking atmosphere! Regrettably I'm going to be about 100 miles away

 

[swiftaw]

Rumour is that David James is on the way to Stoke: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/s/stoke_city/8459698.stm

 

[Lord Blackadder]

So for everyone to jump on Rafa and say it's all his fault he needs to go blah blah blah is silly. Is Rafa part of the problem? Questionable signings and even more questionable tactics says he is, but he's not the whole problem. They can make a hasty decision for Rafa to leave but when Liverpool's performance doesn't improve, I won't be surprised.

Rafa has made some bad signings and also some poor tactical decisions perhaps - but is he really the biggest of our problems? I'm sick of managers becoming scapegoats. Rafa might not be up to SAF levels of managerial success, but he's no Joe Kinnear or Paul Ince either. Right now the board is hated by the fans, we have debt, a dodgy stadium replacement situation and little to no money to buy players. None of those things are directly Rafa's fault.

If we sack Rafa we solve whatever problems he causes but create a multitude of potentially disastrous new ones . I say keep him until further notice.

Hunt's been one of our better players this season, certainly he's our leading scorer in the League (from the wing) and is a proper menace to opponents. Selling him would be a bad move in my opinion and won't help our chances of avoiding the drop at all.

capoeirista calls Tevez the rich man's Dirk Kuyt (see below)....so perhaps one could say Steven Hunt is therefore the poor man's Dirk Kuyt (although, he's probably scored more goals than the legendary Dutchman has this season!).

Actually, come to think of it, Dirk Kuyt is a poor man's Dirk Kuyt right now. I still think he's a good player and we're a better side with him in the squad.

As for Hunt, I find him exciting to watch and he puts in a serious shift every time he's on the pitch. If I were a Tigers supporter I'd definitely want to keep him.

I'm pretty sure the last MUFC game was the 100th different squad SAF has played in as many games. They've done alright recently haven't they?

As for Tevez being the best player in the league? I disagree. For me he's a rich man's Dirk Kuyt. That said, I'm really struggling to think of someone who has shone for me this season..... Lee Bowyer?

I would not say Tevez is the best player in the league....assuming everyone is healthy you've got players like Drogba, Torres, Gerrard, RVP, Fabregas, Rooney and others who I would say are better. What I would say is that Tevez would not look out of place in any of the top four's starting XI and would make an impact.

Good luck against Norwich.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Rumour is that David James is on the way to Stoke: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/s/stoke_city/8459698.stm

Further fuel on the fire that Sorensen may be looking to leave Stoke City?

In any case, one player neither he nor James will have to face for a while is Fernando Torres. The Liverpool striker needs a knee op and is facing six weeks on the sidelines.

capoeirista calls Tevez the rich man's Dirk Kuyt (see below)....so perhaps one could say Steven Hunt is therefore the poor man's Dirk Kuyt (although, he's probably scored more goals than the legendary Dutchman has this season!)...

As for Hunt, I find him exciting to watch and he puts in a serious shift every time he's on the pitch. If I were a Tigers supporter I'd definitely want to keep him.

A left-sided Hull City winger from Oirland who's our leading goalscorer? Hunt is the new Stuart Elliott. Jesus loves Stuart Elliott.

And yes, Hunt is someone I definitely want to stay at the KC...

 

[Lord Blackadder]

In any case, one player neither he nor James will have to face for a while is Fernando Torres. The Liverpool striker needs a knee op and is facing six weeks on the sidelines.

<Groans> Ugh, I know. Yes, it would be just papering over the cracks if he was healthy and in-form now, but we need every goal we can get, and Torres is a manufacturer of goals.

Gerrard and Benayoun, who probably round out Liverpool's three top players besides Reina, are also out for several weeks apiece. It just keeps getting worse.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Yeah, I've heard a lot of fans attacking the owners and board, but so far it's the media that are having a go a Benitez, not the fans.

 

[Nieval]

Not good times to be a Liverpool supporter eh Lord, I myself am still reeling from the Leeds defeat, so I suggest getting together and drowning our sorrow in a pint or two. Jaffa can come along too because we agreed that Hull aren't going to make as long as he brings that promised ice cream. Anyone else feel free to join as long as you have something to be miserable about..

P.S. Arsenal fans not invited..

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Looks like Spurs fans might be joining us when Rednkapp finds himself in the slammer....

<cue the "dirty Harry" jokes>

 

[oscillatewildly]

Well, I ludicrous - Berbatov > Tevez, just get him fit. And whilst I appreciate Tevez's contribution with Park in the 2007/8 Semi-Final against Barcelona, his added time goal against Blackburn Rovers was not well received by the Buchaneers.

When the Banks have full control and SAF leaves, he will be replaced by DF

Cheers,
OW