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2009 Formula One Thread

Lord Blackadder said:
What are the rules about testing? Can you run a blatantly illegal car in testing as long as you run legal cars in races?
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i don't think you can run an 'illegal' car in testing.
but it is not worth it, 'cause with the limited amount of testing allowed, you'd significantly eat into development of the car, since it's dubious the data would be very useful.

as far as BRAWNGP, i wasn't implying they are cheating in any way.
just wondering whether they are using some part of the test in a non-2009 spec to spike the numbers for sponsor purposes.

i do think they have a very good car to begin with, but i found hard to believe they are 1 second faster of everyone else out of the box.

the fact that they are sustaining the pace over several sessions would indicate that the results are genuine. also, some of the other pilots seems to believe the pace is real, and i guess they are in the best position to evaluate.
furthermore, to completely dupe potential sponsors with a fake performance wouldn't likely be a very healthy move in the medium-long term.

we'll find out soon enough, but at this point i can see them at or near the front of grid in melbourne.
and they did run race-long tests, so reliability seems not to be a major issue.
 
Don't panic said:
furthermore, to completely dupe potential sponsors with a fake performance wouldn't likely be a very healthy move in the medium-long term.
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True... look at Honda, Prost, Arrows, Honda (again)... they all did the same in Winter testing and look where they all are now. :p

Lord Blackadder said:
That's what I was thinking. Why use up precious time on a publicity stunt?
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They'll still get data from running the car underweight, just as they did under their previous guises. ;)

But without sponsorship there is absolutely no way they can financially sustain the team, I don't doubt that this car will be good, it was after all designed with perhaps the 2nd largest budget in F1, under the guidance of the sports top Technical Director... but I don't believe it's a second faster than everyone else.

Anyway... McLaren look to be in the doo-doo. :p
 
iGav said:
If a company like Honda cannot afford to sustain a team without sponsorship... ;)
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From what I've seen the decision to remove Honda from F1 was due to the global recession coupled with the new (not-motorsport friendly) CEO of the company not willing to justify spending the money on F1. It's hard to justify spending £100 million on a motorised billboard, and it could be seen as smacking of two-facedness (???) if you're sacking people in the factories and forecourts while running an F1 team.
 
MOFS said:
It's hard to justify spending £100 million...
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And there would've been no need to, had they had a title sponsor, along with smaller sponsors, rather than trying to fund the entire team themselves.
 
Meanwhile, I just find it great that everybody is just floored at the pace of the Brawn car. Today Massa even said Ferrari can't match pace. :eek:
 
Sadly, I bet Mclaren are plenty fast enough. Testing is just that, testing*...

Unofficial Thursday times from Barcelona:
1. Rubens Barrichello, Brawn BGP 001, 1:18.926
2. Nico Rosberg, Williams FW31, 1:19.774
3. Timo Glock, Toyota TF109, 1:20.091
4. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull RB5, 1:20.576
5. Fernando Alonso, Renault R29, 1:20.664
6. Felipe Massa, Ferrari F60, 1:20.677
7. Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber F1.09, 1:20.740
8. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren MP4-24, 1:20.869
9. Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso STR4, 1:21.013
10. Giancarlo Fisichella, Force India VJM02, 1:21.045
11. Sebastien Bourdais, Toro Rosso STR4, 1:21.629


They are testing the cars as well as the other teams and what they can get people to believe ;)
 
as a suffering life long honda fan, i wish jenson and rubens win it all! major props to ross picking up the team and jenson sticking it thru all these years of melodrama and underachievement.

we will find out in two weeks...
 
acurafan said:
as a suffering life long honda fan, i wish jenson and rubens win it all! major props to ross picking up the team and jenson sticking it thru all these years of melodrama and underachievement...
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As if he had much choice after all his previous contract shenanigans...
 
acurafan said:
as a suffering life long honda fan, i wish jenson and rubens win it all! major props to ross picking up the team and jenson sticking it thru all these years of melodrama and underachievement.

we will find out in two weeks...
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some folks in the paddock believe they are truly fast... we'll see.
 
What the he!! is this?! :confused:

Wins to decide world champion in 2009

By Pablo Elizalde Tuesday, March 17th 2009, 13:35 GMT


Formula One's world champion in 2009 will be the driver with the biggest number of wins during the season, the FIA said on Tuesday

The FIA said it had rejected a proposal by FOTA to change the current system.

The world champion will be the driver who wins the most races in a season.

A back-up points system will be used in case two or more drivers win the same amount of races during a year.

The Constructors' Championship remains unaffected by the changes.

"The WMSC accepted the proposal from Formula One Management to award the drivers' championship to the driver who has won the most races during the season," said the FIA in a statement.

"If two or more drivers finish the season with the same number of wins, the title will be awarded to the driver with the most points, the allocation of points being based on the current 10, 8, 6 etc. system.

"The rest of the standings, from second to last place, will be decided by the current points system. There is no provision to award medals for first, second or third place. The Constructors' Championship is unaffected.

"The WMSC rejected the alternative proposal from the Formula One Teams' Association to change the points awarded to drivers finishing in first, second and third place to 12, 9 and 7 points respectively. "
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:(

I cannot tell you how much this upsets me. Perhaps when all is said and done at the end of the season it won't make any difference, but I can't get behind this. I though the FOTA point increase wasn't necessary or beneficial, but this is beyond stupid. Talk about faulty logic that it will increase compteition and cause more passing.

Of course with all of the new rules in place passing will be easier and more likely, so when that happens that short little troll will just point this and then claim that this was the reason.
 
Count wins and nothing else, no points. In case there was a tie on wins, then and only then I would look at second places finishes, if there was a tie on second place finishes, then and only then I would look at third place finishes. And so on and so forth.
 
pachyderm said:
Count wins and nothing else, no points. In case there was a tie on wins, then and only then I would look at second places finishes, if there was a tie on second place finishes, then and only then I would look at third place finishes. And so on and so forth.
Click to expand...

But why? Wins are easily gifted once or twice, consistency is not.

Do you really think that someone who manages to win three races and finish out of or low in the points for the other rounds is a better driver than someone who consistently finishes second?

What about one driver with 9 wins and 8 retirements beating someone with 8 wins and 9 second places?

It's just a foolish idea, and it will cause a lot more problems than it solves.

P.S. I just saw your PM from Saturday. It's impossible to say from testing, they could be doing any number of things. General consensus seems to be they're very fast, but not as fast as it may seem.
 
SpookTheHamster said:
But why? Wins are easily gifted once or twice, consistency is not.

Do you really think that someone who manages to win three races and finish out of or low in the points for the other rounds is a better driver than someone who consistently finishes second?

What about one driver with 9 wins and 8 retirements beating someone with 8 wins and 9 second places?

It's just a foolish idea, and it will cause a lot more problems than it solves.

P.S. I just saw your PM from Saturday. It's impossible to say from testing, they could be doing any number of things. General consensus seems to be they're very fast, but not as fast as it may seem.
Click to expand...

The new points system is silly. I can see what they are trying to do, improve the racing at the front of the field, and it may work, but it could also throw a load of team orders into the game, running drivers light to hold up competitors, it could be interesting, but I doubt it!

With regard to Brawn, that car is fast. I still have contacts there and it is truly a fast car, one team has run a race simulation and the expect to be lapped by the Brawn after about 20 laps at Melbourne. They have spent 12 months developing the car with some of the most advanced wind-tunnels in motorsport (I think they where using 4 at one point). Also the move to the Merc engine is huge, between 1 and 1.5 seconds per lap. People forget just what a dog the Honda engine was, they never mapped it below about 12,000rpm!

It is a simple calculation, if they do well for the first half of the season they will get big backing fro 2010 onwards and they will be fine. Ross would not have staked his reputation if he knew that it would be a 12 month wonder. Every team spends a lot of money (in my opinion, too much) on analysing each others car and they will know exactly what lap times Brawn are capable of and with the recent betting trends (a lot of which will come from within the industry (a lot of engineers made money on a Jordan finishing 3rd in the 2004? US GP because they knew the Michelin runners would not race)) leads me to believe other teams are very concerned by the Brawn.

The McLaren is a strange situation. I can't see them getting into Q3 at the start of the season. They are having similar problems to Honda a few years ago. The rear wing is not working well and the data they get in the wind tunnel does not match the data on the track, hence running with a lot of air pressure sensors, '08 wings and more vis paint you can shake a stick at. If they do have a fundamental design flaw it is not a quick fix, new chassis maybe which will limit 2010 development and with the lack of testing they are compromised as they can not trust their wind tunnel data. Too early to right them off but it does not look too good so far.

Wow, think that is about it.

Spook, did you get the PM I sent a few weeks ago?

Good luck for 2009 (if I find the rear end of the RBR lying around I will let you know ;) )
 
I did get it, and I forwarded it to a few of them.

It would have made more sense to up the points for a win to some ridiculous number: say 20.
 
SpookTheHamster said:
I did get it, and I forwarded it to a few of them.

It would have made more sense to up the points for a win to some ridiculous number: say 20.
Click to expand...

Then you get like Indy Car and get 30 points for just turning up. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.......
 
R.Youden said:
The new points system is silly. I can see what they are trying to do, improve the racing at the front of the field, and it may work, but it could also throw a load of team orders into the game, running drivers light to hold up competitors, it could be interesting, but I doubt it!

With regard to Brawn, that car is fast. I still have contacts there and it is truly a fast car, one team has run a race simulation and the expect to be lapped by the Brawn after about 20 laps at Melbourne. They have spent 12 months developing the car with some of the most advanced wind-tunnels in motorsport (I think they where using 4 at one point). Also the move to the Merc engine is huge, between 1 and 1.5 seconds per lap. People forget just what a dog the Honda engine was, they never mapped it below about 12,000rpm!

It is a simple calculation, if they do well for the first half of the season they will get big backing fro 2010 onwards and they will be fine. Ross would not have staked his reputation if he knew that it would be a 12 month wonder. Every team spends a lot of money (in my opinion, too much) on analysing each others car and they will know exactly what lap times Brawn are capable of and with the recent betting trends (a lot of which will come from within the industry (a lot of engineers made money on a Jordan finishing 3rd in the 2004? US GP because they knew the Michelin runners would not race)) leads me to believe other teams are very concerned by the Brawn.

The McLaren is a strange situation. I can't see them getting into Q3 at the start of the season. They are having similar problems to Honda a few years ago. The rear wing is not working well and the data they get in the wind tunnel does not match the data on the track, hence running with a lot of air pressure sensors, '08 wings and more vis paint you can shake a stick at. If they do have a fundamental design flaw it is not a quick fix, new chassis maybe which will limit 2010 development and with the lack of testing they are compromised as they can not trust their wind tunnel data. Too early to right them off but it does not look too good so far.

Wow, think that is about it.

Spook, did you get the PM I sent a few weeks ago?

Good luck for 2009 (if I find the rear end of the RBR lying around I will let you know ;) )
Click to expand...


great post.
i think this season could really be great.
hopefully the idiotic FIA tinkering won't ruin it, although they managed to get
a handsome headstart!

the new rules could be a lifeline for Mclaren, as they might be able to make up a poor start with a dominating second half of the season, assuming they solve the problems.
but if they don't and they truly are as bad as they look now, i can see maccas pulling a brawn and start develop the 2010 car early on, ideally to have a very advanced product before the '10 season starts so they might squeeze into the 'low budget' group.
 
SpookTheHamster said:
But why? Wins are easily gifted once or twice, consistency is not.

Do you really think that someone who manages to win three races and finish out of or low in the points for the other rounds is a better driver than someone who consistently finishes second?

What about one driver with 9 wins and 8 retirements beating someone with 8 wins and 9 second places?

It's just a foolish idea, and it will cause a lot more problems than it solves.

P.S. I just saw your PM from Saturday. It's impossible to say from testing, they could be doing any number of things. General consensus seems to be they're very fast, but not as fast as it may seem.
Click to expand...

spoken like a true nascar man... lol ;)
i don't think that only one or two wins are going to clinch a title...

i like what we used last year. and i do think that the driver with the most wins should be champ. and that usually involves quite a few wins.
 
Glad to see Alonso and Schumacher standing up and speaking out against this rules change. I hope enough pressure builds that The Short One will reverse the change before the season starts.
 
I have been thinking about these new regulations...

Say, for instance, you have two drivers going into the final two races, they both have 4 wins each. Driver A is winning comfortably but is behind on points compared to drive B. Driver B is third in the race and has no chance of winning. Both drivers are on the 2nd race of the 3 race limits for their engines so what does driver B do?

Deliberately blow his engine so he gets a brand new engine for the last race and has a better chance of winning that race and then the championship.

You could see some very interesting tactics this year....

P.S. for a bit of a laugh, just seen the Honda "impossible dreams" advert with the old Honda RA106. Hmm impossible dreams eh! Well they are impossible when you have a dog of an engine.
 
i haven't been keeping up with this thread but are these rules for real?
this is a joke. please be a joke.
 
benlangdon said:
i haven't been keeping up with this thread but are these rules for real?
this is a joke. please be a joke.
Click to expand...

Sorry, not a joke. Courtesy of Bernnie.

Currently those who have spoken out, some more tha others, about the change include:

Webber
Alonso
Schumacher, M.
Montezemolo
Hamilton
Button
 
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