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2009 Formula One Thread

MOFS said:
Well Max has been talking about a return to old fashioned ways of creating downforce. He was a wee bit annoyed about spending millions on using a new alloy of madeupium that would shave thousandths off lap times but would never go near a road car....
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You are misinformed about that alloy. It's called Unobtainium. ;)
 
SpookTheHamster said:
Have a read through the updated technical regulations. There's some interesting things in there for budget capped teams.

I'm surprised that most of the news sites haven't been reporting that 4WD has been allowed. It's probably to allow the teams to fit KERS MGUs to the front wheels as well, but it opens up full 4WD and maybe the return of front diffs to aid under braking.

I can't imagine the acceleration of a 4WD F1 car with no rev limit and double the KERS power.
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Interesting. I have yet to read any other info pertaining to 4WD. It's my understanding that 4WD cars are usually slower in the corners than RWD. Though it would be interesting. IMO I only like RWD cars, well...ok. The old Skylines are the exception.

I could see KERS linked to the front end to make KERS braking more consistent. Maybe not 4wd, but axels hooked up to Kers jsut at the front, however thats quite a bit more rotating weight and unsprung weight just for the KERS boost moments. I'll wait till next year. In the mean time, not a fan of cost cutting measures. F1 is about being the most technically advanced within a set of rules. If you have to spend your way out of hairy situations, so be it. It is after all a sport for the most elite.

Also, I heavily disagree with a 2 Tier system....LAME!!! Le Mans covers that.
 
This 4WD stuff is crazy. It will just be like KERS. They give you a £40m cap (which by the time you add all the extras will be nearer £75m) and say, oh you can develop 4WD now. How much would all that cost! It would cost £40m just to develop the 4WD.

As mentioned I also think it is due to the pick-up of the KERS system. It would make a lot of sense to have the KERS mounted at the front of the car and provide suitable ballast. But where is the drive train going? There is no room at the moment so it will be a bit of a squeeze, and if the KERS failed under the drivers feet it could make a bit of a mess.

Someone asked why Honda pulled out when they had a good car for 2009. If that car had a Honda engine it would not be where it is now. Simulations have shown it to be around 0.5-1 second per lap faster with the Merc engine. In a way the best thing that ever happened to that car was Honda leaving, it is just unfortunate about the team members who have lost their jobs.
 
Agreed Youden. The cost to develop a 4WD car would be tremendous. Could someone provide a link to support the 4wd claim that it is allowed next season?

I am confused as to the situation with McLaren? The 3 race suspension is supsended for 12months? Could someone clarify? Does this mean if the breach the rules again, that THEN the 3 race suspension is in effect? Or does it just mean that McLaren has 12 months till they are then suspended for 3 races? So many interpretations in my head I wont list them all. Clarity anyone?
 
madeupium Unobtainium

wow when i saw those words i didn't even try and pronounce it and just glazed over it. then i searched for it and laughed. element 404
 
rezenclowd3 said:
Agreed Youden. The cost to develop a 4WD car would be tremendous. Could someone provide a link to support the 4wd claim that it is allowed next season?

I am confused as to the situation with McLaren? The 3 race suspension is supsended for 12months? Could someone clarify? Does this mean if the breach the rules again, that THEN the 3 race suspension is in effect? Or does it just mean that McLaren has 12 months till they are then suspended for 3 races? So many interpretations in my head I wont list them all. Clarity anyone?
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Normally a 3 race suspensions suspended for 12 months means that if they transgress again within the next 12 months, they'll get an automatic 3 race suspension on top of any other punishment for the new offence.
 
rezenclowd3 said:
Interesting. I have yet to read any other info pertaining to 4WD. It's my understanding that 4WD cars are usually slower in the corners than RWD. Though it would be interesting. IMO I only like RWD cars, well...ok. The old Skylines are the exception.
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That's because the Skylines weren't permanent 4WD as such, but when the car detected the back wheels starting to spin, would shift more power to the front. Wonder if that would be something F1 would employ should they go 4WD
 
Fizzoid said:
That's because the Skylines weren't permanent 4WD as such, but when the car detected the back wheels starting to spin, would shift more power to the front. Wonder if that would be something F1 would employ should they go 4WD
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The only way the FIA would allow that would be if it was designed as a safety feature and not to prevent cars from spinning. My theory on 4WD would be to add towards mechanical grip in order for teams to reduce the reliance on aerodynamics which, as has been debated in the past, cause problems with getting close to cars in the past. The Red Bull appears to be an example of what Max wants, with them being able to generate more mechanical downforce (see China) and their unique pull-rod suspension - apparently a variation of the suspension used years ago. I would suspect the major point of these cost cutting is to reduce the need for aerodynamic research (and costs through wind-tunnel testing) and increase mechanical grip to allow more overtaking, and which is also more applicable to road cars.
 
remmy said:
very nice, clicked on it and got a bit of a shock though.
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lol. me too!

benlangdon said:
nice, thanks.
geez what the hell is happening to this sport :(

ya ive watched the races and its amazing that the brawns are doing so good. i mean honda developed the car last year and put a lot of time into it, then this year just wanting to bail out was weird. i mean if it was me i would have at least tried there new car for a year and not just waste what research the have done.
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agreed 100%. dumb move IMHO.
 
rezenclowd3 said:
Agreed Youden. The cost to develop a 4WD car would be tremendous. Could someone provide a link to support the 4wd claim that it is allowed next season?

I am confused as to the situation with McLaren? The 3 race suspension is supsended for 12months? Could someone clarify? Does this mean if the breach the rules again, that THEN the 3 race suspension is in effect? Or does it just mean that McLaren has 12 months till they are then suspended for 3 races? So many interpretations in my head I wont list them all. Clarity anyone?
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Regarding 4WD:
Formula One Technical Regulations 2010 said:
ARTICLE 9 : TRANSMISSION SYSTEM
9.1 Transmission types :
No transmission system may permit more than two wheels to be driven.
This Article will not apply to Cost-Regulated Teams.
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You were right with the first interpretation of the suspension. If they break the rules again in the next 12 months they get an instant 3 race ban.
 
SpookTheHamster said:
In what way? Driver development perhaps, but not any other form of development. Especially after next year when they'll have to be making everything themselves.
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Certainly driver IMHO (tho' you are the person to know better :p) - cf Vettel moving to RBR. Numerous sources have inferred the chassis is quasi-customer (ie team Adrian Newey designed) with modifications to accommodate the Ferrari engine and their own internal mechanics etc.
 
The relationship between STR and RBR is very open, if you watch the TV coverage it's mentioned often. The chassis for both teams is designed by Red Bull Technology, with STR getting a couple of updates in the year.

Running the car is all up to STR
 
rezenclowd3 said:
Well...winner-take all is set for 2010...If I were a team going in to a race knowing we wouldn't get 1st, I'd drop out.
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If I understand things correctly, a good portion of the monies and support teams receive is based on their position in the previous year's Constructor's Championship.

So even though Lewis Hamilton won the 2008 World Driving Championship, Ferrari winning the 2008 Constructors Championship gives them the largest paddock area and the most-preferred garage/pit positions. They also receive the most freight subsidies to help cover the shipping costs for the "fly-away" races and other benefits (like apportioning of TV revenues).

So for the teams, it likely means little, especially since the actual Constructor's points awarded in each race will remain unchanged and that is what they care about the most.
 
Thanks for some of clarification.

Being new to actively following F1, there is much for me to learn, but what advantages are there to having a pit space in the entry or near the exit?
Heres what I see, having a pit space in the entry advantages:
Can get into your pit space without having a car pull out in front of you. Problem? Having to deal with getting out of you pit space as traffic travels through pit lane. Opposites for having a pit space near exit, correct? Any more to this?

It still peeves me that tire warmers are banned. I could really care less about how it is applicable to street legal tires. Its a cutting edge race car that will never be street legal. If you want street legal action, get in on some autocross.
 
rezenclowd3 said:
Thanks for some of clarification.

Being new to actively following F1, there is much for me to learn, but what advantages are there to having a pit space in the entry or near the exit?
Heres what I see, having a pit space in the entry advantages:
Can get into your pit space without having a car pull out in front of you. Problem? Having to deal with getting out of you pit space as traffic travels through pit lane. Opposites for having a pit space near exit, correct? Any more to this?
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I don't think there are any advantages on having the pit near the exit or at the entrance, because drivers are subject to a speed limit (because of this) when traveling within the pit lane, and usually it's large enough so it will not affect the driving time necessary to pass it even if there is traffic. Add to that that the chance of having traffic in front of you is exactly the same either if you have the pit space at the entrance, exit or in the middle.
 
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