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2011 Formula 1 Thread

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going by the rules strictly, don't be too surprised if button get's into another investigation:
he got one of his personal best sector times in the end while that sector was yellow flagged
 
takao said:
going by the rules strictly, don't be too surprised if button get's into another investigation:
he got one of his personal best sector times in the end while that sector was yellow flagged
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Was that when the collision occurred or somewhere else? The actual accident looked like Button had the inside line and Alonso didn't leave enough room. With Hamilton it was clearly a racing incident.
 
iJohnHenry said:
But did he pass anyone?
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actually that is not a requirement ... pushing for fast laps, without "lifting" the throttle a little can also be an offense according to the rule book

MOFS said:
Was that when the collision occurred or somewhere else? The actual accident looked like Button had the inside line and Alonso didn't leave enough room. With Hamilton it was clearly a racing incident.
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honestly the viewing angles on the alonso button accident weren't that great, but afaik alonso was on the racing line
just like earlier when hamilton & button had their incident: in the replay you can even see how button turns his head towards the mirror and he _still_ 'moved' hamilton towards the wall even though he was technically just holding his racing line

a lot of it depends now on the stewards sadly ... (one of them being Fittipaldi)
 
takao said:
honestly the viewing angles on the alonso button accident weren't that great, but afaik alonso was on the racing line
just like earlier when hamilton & button had their incident: in the replay you can even see how button turns his head towards the mirror and he _still_ 'moved' hamilton towards the wall even though he was technically just holding his racing line

a lot of it depends now on the stewards sadly ... (one of them being Fittipaldi)
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I think the Button-Alonso incident will be deemed to be racing, although I still think Alonso didn't really give Button a chance when he cut him up, especially considering the track conditions.
 
takao said:
actually that is not a requirement ... pushing for fast laps, without "lifting" the throttle a little can also be an offense according to the rule book
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Great, yet another subjective determination.

Why don't they just remotely control the cars distance from the car ahead, so that no gain is possible.

Sounds stupid to me.

If a driver wants to kill himself, to gain position, and not risk another driver, what's the harm?

This is racing, is it not??
 
MOFS said:
I think the Button-Alonso incident will be deemed to be racing, although I still think Alonso didn't really give Button a chance when he cut him up, especially considering the track conditions.
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true but it's rather complicated eespecially with button being under of the investigation in a reverse case as well

in total 4 incidents needing after race investigation is quite a low point

edit: blasting through a yellow flagged sector is risking others: there could be a stationary vehicle with a driver still in it, or personal trying to recover a vehicle, or broken off parts still on the track etc.
afaik the rule even says the driver has to be ready to stop the vehicle
just in May, Maldonado got punished in qualifing (moved 5 positions further back on the starting grid) for doing just that
 
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ipodtoucher said:
What an amazing race!!!
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And the BBC iPlayer cocks it up. The coverage only goes up to just after the safety car comes in to start the race again after the red flag. At this point the BBC's coverage switches channels from BBC 1 to BBC 2. At this point the BBC iPlayer looses the second half of the Grand Prix, both links point to the same place. I can't understand why they didn't manage to concatenate the two feeds together.


Oh and my virign box failed to record the program because the series link feature in it isn't as good as Sky's. For some reason on Virgin when you set up a series link it seems to record every single variant of that program, i.e. on all the +1 channels. So when the Misses set something up, it caused the grand prix to fall out.

Poo.
 
takao said:
true but it's rather complicated eespecially with button being under of the investigation in a reverse case as well

in total 4 incidents needing after race investigation is quite a low point

edit: blasting through a yellow flagged sector is risking others: there could be a stationary vehicle with a driver still in it, or personal trying to recover a vehicle, or broken off parts still on the track etc.
afaik the rule even says the driver has to be ready to stop the vehicle
just in May, Maldonado got punished in qualifing (moved 5 positions further back on the starting grid) for doing just that
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Button not penalised (Autosport). Seems fair enough. The amount of stewards inquiries is down to the complicated nature of the race, with changeable conditions and therefore the race was never gonna be as processional as Catalunya.
 
Did anybody hear anything else regarding Massa's crash? The Speed announcers seemed to think it was his fault, but from the onboard the HRT in front of him was all over the track. Since he messed up right after he passed the HRT I couldn't help but feel perhaps it went wobbly again and tapped his rear tire or wing.

Nice drive by Button. I feel like he would have gotten Vettle with DRS anyway, but regardless a great drive and win.
 
Superman07 said:
Did anybody hear anything else regarding Massa's crash? The Speed announcers seemed to think it was his fault, but from the onboard the HRT in front of him was all over the track. Since he messed up right after he passed the HRT I couldn't help but feel perhaps it went wobbly again and tapped his rear tire or wing.

Nice drive by Button. I feel like he would have gotten Vettle with DRS anyway, but regardless a great drive and win.
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He just aquaplaned when he went on the wet off-line - video here.
 
To be fair think Massa was a bit unlucky, that is probably the best he has done in a long while.

Never thought Button would win, even in the last lap, how many times has someone gone all the way from last to first?
 
Well Lotus-Renault has been allowed to continue to use the "John Player Special" livery, so why not Ferrari continue with Marlboro...
 
robbieduncan said:
Looks like the smaller capacity turbo engines are delayed a year to 2014 and will be 6 rather than 4 cylinder

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/13878359.stm
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I'm still not sure what all the fuss is about - I've been in Caterhams at 30mph and they sound great. :confused:

BTW is anyone going to the British Grand Prix? I've been a lucky sod and have won tickets for the entire weekend, so would be good to put a face to the posters.

PS: congrats to robbieduncan and OllyW for their appointments as mods. Rumours that regular posting in the F1 thread is a selection criteria remain unconfirmed :p
 
MOFS said:
I'm still not sure what all the fuss is about - I've been in Caterhams at 30mph and they sound great. :confused:
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It is possible for 4 cylinder engines to sound OK. But I'd never really say they sound great. Having recently gone from 4 to 6 cylinders in my car I'd have to say the engine sound is one of the biggest things I like about the new car.

I can understand their concern: right now you have V8s revving to 18000 rpm. That sounds absolutely nothing like any road car. The top-end means the rarely rev below 12000. The change suggested was 4 cylinders reving to 12000 rpm. This would mean quite a bit of the time the cars would be down at 9000 rpm. There are 4 cylinder road cars that car rev to 9000 (Honda S2000 for example). Do we really want the engine note of a F1 car to sound the same as a road car?

My personal take on this is that the rules should not enforce a specific engine configuration. Tell the teams they have X fuel to last the race (and X for quali to prevent insane quali fuel maps). If they want a NA V12 that's fine. If they want a FI I4 that's fine too. Clearly this would probably end up with most cars running similar configuration engines as that would be most efficient but I bet we'd see some differences which would be more exciting and provide more manufacturer differentiation.

p.s. Congrats on the tickets. I've never been but I'm sure it'll be great. I hope you get decent weather.
 
regardings today's race: more or a less a parade and it looks like banning different qualifying/race mappings for the engines actually did hurt mercedes powered cars a lot more than the renault ones .. thus actually helping red bull instead of slowing them down
ferrari profited unsuprisingly

regarding engines: the problem with the current NA 2.4L v8s simply is that engine producers simply get zero advantage from the development, for their road cars/engines
Renault and Mercedes want the engines to be closer to road car designs: so that their R&D pays off better
for ferrari who only uses v8+ in their production cars it doesn't matter much, i suppose they were kinda worried since both renault and mercedes have had lots of expierence with turbo I4s

the proposed new engine formula actually included a fuel limit, sort of : the injection pressure for fuel will be limited, (opposed to limiting air intake or turbo pressure) so no matter what we will see some crazy engine works
IMHO the decision to go with a fixed amount of cylinders is wrong: they should have left it to the car designers wether they use 4 or 6 cylinders, inline or V configuration...
 
robbieduncan said:
My personal take on this is that the rules should not enforce a specific engine configuration. Tell the teams they have X fuel to last the race (and X for quali to prevent insane quali fuel maps). If they want a NA V12 that's fine. If they want a FI I4 that's fine too. Clearly this would probably end up with most cars running similar configuration engines as that would be most efficient but I bet we'd see some differences which would be more exciting and provide more manufacturer differentiation.
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takao said:
IMHO the decision to go with a fixed amount of cylinders is wrong: they should have left it to the car designers wether they use 4 or 6 cylinders, inline or V configuration...
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An obvious alternative of course would be the requirement for each team to design and manufacture their own engines (though they'd almost certainly be arguments that this would perhaps unfairly favour existing manufacturer teams), or for example to equalise the performance of different engine layouts, so that there's not a distinct power advantage between individual layouts, but certain engines have certain advantages (weight, size, efficiency, torque delivery, lag etc), whether it be a turbo, supercharger, naturally aspirated, diesel or even a hybrid.

But I suspect there's a compelling argument to made that ultimately, it'd be an expensive and pointless endeavour, as they'd simply default to the median optimal layout like what we saw in the 1990's when we had V8's, V10's and the V12's, the V8's were compact and fuel efficient, but lacked power, the V12's were powerful, but sizeable and thoroughly thirsty, but in the end to be consistently competitive you had to default to the V10 (even Ferrari). I suspect it'd be no different this time.
 
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