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"Dramatic refresh" is very subjective.

Personally, I find that most people here seem to relate "dramatic refresh" with "case redesign". Which is really the least important part of a refresh.

I consider the early 2011 MBPs to be a major refresh, because they brought quad core CPUs, significantly better GPUs, SATA 3 drives and Light Peak (Thunderbolt still stupid name). The MBPs haven't seen a comparable jump in performance for years. Likely since they were introduced. And they aren't likely to see a similar jump in performance for a few years yet. Maybe Haswell, maybe not.


P.S. This is a rumour site. If someone lists some computer specs, the fact that they are a complete guess is implied. Similar to how if someone says "I know these specs to be true, because an Apple employee told me", it can be implied that they are a liar :p

Excellent post, except for the ps part. ;)

I agree that, let's say a quad core CPU is much more important even though many love a new case. I am sure both are significant but I too would consider the quad core much more desirable. When I had a first generation iBook, I had hoped that I could have had a DVD player and not just a CD. Of course when iBook got the DVD player, it was a game changer and same with firewire port for G3 iBook. Yes, the internal stuff is what greatly improves the computer. It's nice that Apple has a recycle friendly laptop or an ultra thin case design, but in the end that's not what makes it a more efficient and powerful machine.

Yes, this is a rumor site and I can agree with that and I am glad you pointed that out. Too many people forget and take many things as fact. However, in being here for over a decade, some rumors have turned out to be true but I attribute that more to educated guesses.

Being from Northern California, and maybe because of that, when somebody gets a tip from an Apple employee, it's likely from Cupertino and not a retail outlet. Any myth about Apple being more secretive or better able to keep a secret than other Silicon Valley companies is just that, myth. Just because SJ was good about making himself appear to be some mysterious computer guru does not mean anybody else at Apple is that way. When I hear something that catches my ear, it's usually from a person at Apple and it helps that I am in this industry. There are many cool things other companies are doing as important as Apple right now in the San Jose area. Sure there are liars but it's usually not the case here and if they are at Apple and persistent enough, either they can get sued or it's a part of generating interest in a future product. I wouldn't put it past Apple to do that and they are the masters at that sort of thing.

If the White House and the closely vetted inner circle can't keep secrets (as Clinton found out about with all the leaks inherent in his job as POTUS), there's no way a computer company with thousands of employees at HQ are going to keep a secret. If somebody says they heard something about an Apple product, find out who that person is and what access they could possibly have to somebody working for Apple.
 
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You posted your speculation as fact. That's what the complainers in here are getting pressed about.
Oh for god's sake. We all know the new specs aren't out so how could the OP's post been meant as, (and taken as) "fact"?
 
hmm since Intel and Nvidia sort of "worked things out" and we can start seeing Nvidia Graphics + Ivy Bridge together, do you guys think that we will be seeing Nvidia or AMD graphics cards?
 
hmm since Intel and Nvidia sort of "worked things out" and we can start seeing Nvidia Graphics + Ivy Bridge together, do you guys think that we will be seeing Nvidia or AMD graphics cards?

Two things.

Discrete NVidia graphics and Intel CPUs have been possible for all these years and that's what Apple used before. This decisions is simply up to Apple.

The deal between Intel and NVidia included that NVidia cannot make chipsets for other than Core-based CPUs (Core 2 Duo). 13" MBP used to use NVidia chipsets (e.g. 9400M and 320M) which had GPUs integrated onto the same die. Since NVidia's GPUs have been better than Intel's IGPs, that allowed Apple to have more GPU power in a small laptop like 13" MBP with no space for a discrete GPU. However, due to the deal, this is no longer possible and the only options are either Intel IGP or a discrete GPU.
 
Good predictions. If though they keep the 13" pro, they need to make more of a pro out of it. I'm hoping GPU but not likely so i'll have to say that the core i7 version will be a 3612qm instead.

And for all the people that got their panties in a twist over the OP speculation, your idiots.
 
I think Apple will do a major redesign either with SB in 2012 or with Haswell 2013. I am leaning more towards Haswell because of bigger power savings and because in 2013 the SSD's would be price optimized.

I think Apple will make 15" and 17" thinner with SSD as standart and they will nix the ODD. I see no future for the MBP 13" considering how capable the 13" MBA is for most of the tasks. I dont think the new MBP will be as thin as the MBA and I dont think it will be tapered either due to Apple putting bigger batteries towards the bottom.

MacBook Pro 15"
0.7" thick - 4.5 lbs
Intel Core i5 Quad Core (Core i7 option)
ATI 7770
256 GB SSD
13 Hrs battery life

MacBook Pro 17"
0.7" thick - 5.5 lbs
Intel Core i5 Quad Core (Core i7 option)
ATI 7790
256 GB SSD
13 Hrs battery life
 
I think Apple will do a major redesign either with SB in 2012 or with Haswell 2013.

Ivy Bridge and Haswell have the same size 22nm die shrink. Sandy bridge is 32nm

Makes perfect sense to redesign on the same die shrink. I remember reading posts of people commenting that Ivy Bridge will be the redesign due to the 50% decrease in power consumption (less heat). Now we're moving onto 2013 :)


I see no future for the MBP 13" considering how capable the 13" MBA is for most of the tasks.

The MBA vs a MBP (SSD) is no competition. The MBP wins hands down! Easily....it has its place in the product line.

The only way they will get rid of it if they up the processing power of the air to be on par with the pro (or just below). My 2cents btw :)
 
I see no future for the MBP 13" considering how capable the 13" MBA is for most of the tasks.

I agree. If everything goes the way Apple wants, Thunderbolt will replace all the extra ports on the MBP. The performance gap between the MBP and MBA is smaller than ever and with Intel's aim to lower TDPs, it will only shrink further.
 
I agree. If everything goes the way Apple wants, Thunderbolt will replace all the extra ports on the MBP. The performance gap between the MBP and MBA is smaller than ever and with Intel's aim to lower TDPs, it will only shrink further.

The performance gap is greatly misunderstood. Your comparing apples to oranges here (SSD VS HDD).

The processor in the Air does not run anywhere near the processor of the MBP.

The Air runs on ultra low voltage, pros run on low voltage. The SSD in the air is misleading but if you stick a SSD in the pro you'll see the light :p
 
mcman77, I don't understand what your point is. It seems like you are agreeing with me. Perhaps I didn't phrase my post well. :eek:

ermir4444 was talking about the future of the MBP and my post was written in reply to that. I am not comparing the current MBA to the current MBP eventhough I do believe they are similar enough to be compared directly for most people.

You say that the processor of the MBA is not similar to the MBPs, I agree. However, Intel has made their plans to knock TDPs down very clear. This would bring mainstream midrange CPUs down to the TDP of the ULV processors in the MBA. The performance gap will not longer be an issue. Apple may choose to go with a processor that has an even lower TDP than current MBAs, but the possibility of having a low TDP standard voltage CPU in the future is definitely there.

SSDs > HDDs, like you said, but what is stopping Apple from putting SSDs in the MBP?

The only remaining advantage of the MBP is in the versatility of the ports but Thunderbolt aims to replace most of them.

So...there aren't many areas remaining in which the form factor of the MBP allows it to have any advantage over the MBA. Apple may as well merge the two. I don't think people will complain as long as all the above happen first.
 
SSDs > HDDs, like you said, but what is stopping Apple from putting SSDs in the MBP?

Price-per-GB. I wouldn't buy a laptop which would make me feel constrainted regarding storage space. Nor I'd buy a MBA just to be forced to carry an external HDD as well.


The only remaining advantage of the MBP is in the versatility of the ports but Thunderbolt aims to replace most of them.

Also a more powerful CPU for the time being (despite the lowering of voltage, ULVs are still not comparable to LVs. Not at the present time, at least), price-per-spec, larger battery, better screen quality (even if with lower resolution), more ports (I'd rather carry a MBP than a MBA + a ton of adapters, specially with USB Flashdrives being so prevalent), RAM and HDD upgradeability.
 
Think some apple insider spread the spec of new MBP, althought not 100% TRUSTWORTH but seems worth waiting. Cheers
 
mcman77, I don't understand what your point is. It seems like you are agreeing with me. Perhaps I didn't phrase my post well. :eek:

I was actually disagreeing with your comment, sorry. You said that "The performance gap between the MBP and MBA is smaller than ever" but indeed it hasn't. If they both run SSD the MBP has a significantly faster processor! They not in the same league.

Let me put it this way, if they both ran HDD then you'd see how slow the Air really is.
 
The 2011 13" Air can Turbo Boost to the default frequency of the 2011 13" Pro while consuming 50% less energy on average... In contrast, the 13" Pro can only Turbo Boost to approximately 25% faster than its default speed, or 100% faster than the default of the Air, but it also consumes more than 2x the power of the Air.

Realistically, with Ivy Bridge, that 25% gap in Turbo Boost might be closer, so the assessment that the Air is inching closer to the performance of a Pro is not too far off the mark.

-----------

In any case, I'm really looking forward to the new Ivy Bridge 15"!

i7 quad-core that can Turbo Boost to 3.8GHz and run 25% faster clock to clock than Sandy Bridge is too hard to pass on. It'll be almost 30% faster than my current MBP 15"! Now if they'd include a 2GB GPU, it'll truly be the first time I can safely say that my mobile workstation has more power than I can use.
 
What I want to know is why they still have the "pro" tag line. There is nothing "pro" about the macbook pros.

Bad design
- Poor cooling causing fans to go wild in even light tasks, making it hard to use for Audio.
- Aluminium/Glass while it looks good, one drop at a bad angle and it is game over. No spill resistance, body scratches easily meaning it's annoying having to baby it around busy studios.
- Non user replaceable battery. Would be nice to be able to carry an extra battery along on the road.

Missing Features
- Where is the numeric keyboard? a real pain using multiple key shortcuts for what should be a one key.
- Where are the four Memory Slots? The hardware can support upto 32GB of ram, why physically limit users to 16?
- Where is the express-card slot (15")? No an expensive TB converter isn't the answer.
- Where is the dual disk drive option, or at least optibay solution covered under warranty.

Poor Specifications
- £1549 laptop with a 512mb card? Was only 256mb a little while ago which is just criminal.
- No choice of nvidia or amd. What about quadro/firepro where are they?
- 5400rpm drive as standard?
- Standard Glossy screen? £120 to get an acceptable matte screen at a decent res.

Only things I think of that are unique to the macbook line are:

-Great trackpad. Best on any laptop.
-Magsafe connector.
-Thunderbolt.

I really hope Apple pull their finger out and sort it out. The powerbook was perfect in it's time, good memories.
 
The 2011 13" Air can Turbo Boost to the default frequency of the 2011 13" Pro while consuming 50% less energy on average... In contrast, the 13" Pro can only Turbo Boost to approximately 25% faster than its default speed, or 100% faster than the default of the Air, but it also consumes more than 2x the power of the Air.

Realistically, with Ivy Bridge, that 25% gap in Turbo Boost might be closer, so the assessment that the Air is inching closer to the performance of a Pro is not too far off the mark.

I forgot to mention this in the other thread but I will do here. No matter what comes next, Ivy, Haswell or whatever. No matter how close the 17W Air or the 35W Pro you think are in performance.

The fact is and will always remain constant. 10 Years ago desktops out performed laptops. 5 years after that still the same case, today we still see the same case.

My point is that they perform faster cause of power consumption and cooling fascilities. Even if laptops get faster, the desktops will too !

The ULV (Air) will never perform as fast a LV (Pro) and a LV won't perform as fast as a desktops.

At least considering the past and looking at the next few years!
 
I really hope Apple pull their finger out and sort it out. The powerbook was perfect in it's time, good memories.

Lol, this last sentence invalidates all your points...

The powerbook was well known mostly for technical problems and failures.

Not that you had a point in the first place. If you don't like the specs and features of the MBP, buy some other product. It's a free market.
 
I dont want to be a party pooper but while i love My 2011 macbook pro, i dont know if i ll stick with it another year.
1- asus is offering 120 sd hd, 8 gb ram, GTX 520 for much less the price of a base macbook pro 13 model.
I love Mac os X, and all the things i can do with my mac, but if Apple does not put up with the hardware, while still charging premium, i m a gone costumer.

My 2 cents.
 
I dont want to be a party pooper but while i love My 2011 macbook pro, i dont know if i ll stick with it another year.
1- asus is offering 120 sd hd, 8 gb ram, GTX 520 for much less the price of a base macbook pro 13 model.
I love Mac os X, and all the things i can do with my mac, but if Apple does not put up with the hardware, while still charging premium, i m a gone costumer.

My 2 cents.

You're not a party pooper. Everyone is free to buy the product of his/her choice. Which Asus model are you looking at?

Every time when I get my non Apple feelings, I either go to Best Buy and play with some of the other machines, or I go and read some reviews... focus on the sections about display and trackpad quality, and battery life.
 
You're not a party pooper. Everyone is free to buy the product of his/her choice. Which Asus model are you looking at?

Every time when I get my non Apple feelings, I either go to Best Buy and play with some of the other machines, or I go and read some reviews... focus on the sections about display and trackpad quality, and battery life.

I m talking about this one
Yeah i do the same thing.
 
I love the idea of m-SATA SSDs. I hope if they were to adopt them that the 2012 Mini would utilize them as well.
 
What I want to know is why they still have the "pro" tag line. There is nothing "pro" about the macbook pros.

Bad design
- Poor cooling causing fans to go wild in even light tasks, making it hard to use for Audio.
- Aluminium/Glass while it looks good, one drop at a bad angle and it is game over. No spill resistance, body scratches easily meaning it's annoying having to baby it around busy studios.
- Non user replaceable battery. Would be nice to be able to carry an extra battery along on the road.

Missing Features
- Where is the numeric keyboard? a real pain using multiple key shortcuts for what should be a one key.
- Where are the four Memory Slots? The hardware can support upto 32GB of ram, why physically limit users to 16?
- Where is the express-card slot (15")? No an expensive TB converter isn't the answer.
- Where is the dual disk drive option, or at least optibay solution covered under warranty.

Poor Specifications
- £1549 laptop with a 512mb card? Was only 256mb a little while ago which is just criminal.
- No choice of nvidia or amd. What about quadro/firepro where are they?
- 5400rpm drive as standard?
- Standard Glossy screen? £120 to get an acceptable matte screen at a decent res.

Only things I think of that are unique to the macbook line are:

-Great trackpad. Best on any laptop.
-Magsafe connector.
-Thunderbolt.

I've been under the same impression for quite awhile now.

And only 2 USB ports? On a "pro" level laptop? By the time you hook up an external hard drive and a wireless mouse, you're out of ports. Oh, and all of your connectivity is stuck on the left side of the laptop, and your ports are so tightly spaced that many USB dongles are too large to be used side by side, so some peripherals only allow you one USB port. Using my wireless mouse and external hard drive at one time is impossible without heavily stressing my ports.

Can I use a bluetooth mouse instead? Yes, but I haven't found a bluetooth mouse that can even compare to my Logitech Anywhere MX. I can also use a USB hub, but why should I have to? I don't want the left side of my laptop to look like it's sprouting an octopus any time I want to have my external hard drive hooked up.

And only one TB port is far from "pro". Once TB externals catch on, how will you use an external monitor and hard drive at once? It practically renders docking useless and makes it a very poor workstation machine.

Asking for HDMI out without an adapter isn't a stretch either. Dongles get excessive and can be a pain. It feels like I'm getting nickel and dimed on a laptop that's already expensive to begin with.

Will I buy the next MBP even if it has these same issues? Who knows. I may wait for Haswell and buy a new MBP then. IMO, OSX can't be beat, so I'm chained to the MBP line, but it sure feels like Apple can make huge improvements with a bit more attention paid to function.

I still love my MBP, but Apple seems to pay great attention to some things, and overlook some of the issues a power user notices every day.
 
What I want to know is why they still have the "pro" tag line. There is nothing "pro" about the macbook pros.

Bad design
- Poor cooling causing fans to go wild in even light tasks, making it hard to use for Audio.
- Aluminium/Glass while it looks good, one drop at a bad angle and it is game over. No spill resistance, body scratches easily meaning it's annoying having to baby it around busy studios.
- Non user replaceable battery. Would be nice to be able to carry an extra battery along on the road.

Missing Features
- Where is the numeric keyboard? a real pain using multiple key shortcuts for what should be a one key.
- Where are the four Memory Slots? The hardware can support upto 32GB of ram, why physically limit users to 16?
- Where is the express-card slot (15")? No an expensive TB converter isn't the answer.
- Where is the dual disk drive option, or at least optibay solution covered under warranty.

Poor Specifications
- £1549 laptop with a 512mb card? Was only 256mb a little while ago which is just criminal.
- No choice of nvidia or amd. What about quadro/firepro where are they?
- 5400rpm drive as standard?
- Standard Glossy screen? £120 to get an acceptable matte screen at a decent res.

Only things I think of that are unique to the macbook line are:

-Great trackpad. Best on any laptop.
-Magsafe connector.
-Thunderbolt.

I really hope Apple pull their finger out and sort it out. The powerbook was perfect in it's time, good memories.

I do find it amusing sometimes. The logic on these boards often conforms to Apple's releases. They lack any kind of spill resistance so the statements are always "keep liquids away from your computer" or questioning the intelligence of users who have done this. If Apple had been the first to implement such a protection, the comments would instead call Apple innovative for its implementation, even if other companies were working on similar things concurrently.


I do need to mention to you that the Firepro and Quadro cards are only seen in a small number of laptops. They're basically the same hardware with different drivers to an even greater degree in laptop lines. It's just a few mobile workstation models in other brands that include these card options.

Regarding ram aren't the laptops that allow 32GB of ram using light desktop motherboards? This isn't unheard of in some of the mobile workstation lines. They're really designed for engineers who cannot take the real workstation with them in the field. Those machines can be noisy too. Audio work is best done on a desktop/workstation, not a laptop.

Last thing, the powerbooks sucked. I mean they really sucked. Those damn things had twice the issues of the current macbooks.
 
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