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2014-15 NFL season thread

Nobody cares. Unless you're either :

A. A human being
B. A Sports media writer.
C. A major news outlet. or
D. A team that's NOT in the Super Bowl.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ts-to-tom-bradys-deflategate-press-conference



I thought this was funny though.

:D



B7_ILjLIAAAB0BX.jpg
 
Queen of Spades said:
Mark Brunell is just pissed because he blew through $50 million investing in various dumps in Florida. And he's a worse commentator than he was a quarterback.

ESPN is a **** show right now, with these bitter ex-players near tears, calling a grown man a liar.
Click to expand...

couldn't agree more. one reporter told brady to apologize into the camera. apologize for what exactly?
 
Peace said:
A. Sherman is a Stanford graduate. He's not stupid as you say.
B. Everything he said is the truth. Sorry if the truth hurts.
Click to expand...

George W. Bush is a Harvard and Yale graduate.:p

You just have to love Sherman's impeccable logic:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/93251/richard-shermans-takedown-on-first-take

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6x-O3kb1sI

Brady and/or Belichick may be cheaters and a total disgrace to the NFL if the allegations are true but people don't have the facts one way or the other and are saying that the QB and/or coach are bad people. We don't know this but will probably find out soon enough. But there's one thing for sure, if you want a POS person you have it in Sherman. What the hell type of example is he leaving for the younger people?

It's actually worse because he's high profile and yes, the best at what he does. I don't doubt Seattle will go back to back and Sherman may even emerge as Super Bowl MVP if he gets a couple of key picks, but the debate is not in how he plays, but in how he carries himself. I don't care that he's on Seattle, and even though it sucks that Seattle is better than my team by a mile and perhaps everybody else, I just find him a nasty piece of work confident in knowing he will win but then using that as a platform to trash talk.

A jerk trash talks before a game, but Sherman is one of those really gross people who trash talk somebody they beat in an otherwise good game. Who the hell does that?

That being said I think the world forgives Seattle because you guys have such a class act as a coach and your QB is the best, both on the field and off. The amazing thing many don't know about is a QB that shot off to the best start of any QB in history and maintained his class and is what I like to see when the media covers Seattle, but it's Sherman who gets the cameras. He's a human train wreck.
 
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63dot said:
A jerk trash talks before a game, but Sherman is one of those really gross people who trash talk somebody they beat in an otherwise good game. Who the hell does that?
Click to expand...

Agreed. Sherman is an immensely talented player and a Grade A ass.
 
mscriv said:
I hear what you are saying, but here's how I see it.

The NFL knows that QB's like to "personalize" the ball and that is why they give them access to the game balls and allow customization within the leeway of the rules. I'm sure all QB's in the game have their pregame routine which probably includes checking over and throwing some with the game balls. I have no doubt there's a team manager, ball boy, or whatever that assists with this process including either taking a little air out or putting a little air in per the QB's instruction. It is entirely plausible to me that Brady and his helpers could have missed the mark as specified for inflation levels in the rules. That's what I call an oversight or an instance of neglect. They failed to properly check their finished product with the standard given by the NFL. It's also entirely possible that Brady knew he was taking a bit more out than he should, but didn't think it was a big deal or didn't care. Again, neglect.

The accusation of cheating conjures up images of the Pats coaching staff sitting around a table intentionally hatching a plot to do whatever it takes to gain an unfair advantage. "Okay boys, how can we best defraud other teams and cheat our way to victory? I know, let's not inflate the footballs to the proper PSI, that will give us a definite advantage. Brady will have his highest QB rating ever and none of our WR's will drop a pass. It's brilliant... muh hoo ha, ha, ha!" That's just ridiculous.

So, which of these scenarios seems more likey for an NFL team?
...
Click to expand...

that was my first thought as well, but after hearing more about the case and the general (absurd, in truth) procedure on how the footballs are managed, i changed my mind.

here is why:
the balls are handled to the teams way ahead of the game, so that they can be prepped, to the liking of the QB, in the way you describe. it is only AFTER they are prepped, that they are given to the refs to verify that they are legal.
If, as you and other say this was just a matter of 'neglect', of them deflating the balls 'by feeling' and not with a pressure gauge (which in this time and age requires a large dose of suspension of disbelief in itself, especially when hyper-professional characters like belichick and brady are involved), or -alternatively- if they had a defective pressure gauge, then the deflated balls would have been so BEFORE the ref checked on them. the refs would have measured them, found them deflated and would have asked them to inflate them to regulation.

However, this is NOT what happened: the balls given to the refs where properly inflated.
But those same balls, which could have not been legally tampered with from then on in any form, where at some point deflated AFTERWARD.

this did not happen by accident , and it wan't a form of "neglect", or an oversight.
rather, it was a conscious, strategic decision by 'someone' to (illegally) modify the balls, presumably to get a real or perceived advantage.

that is the very definition of cheating.

whether the advantage was major or minor is to an extent immaterial, as is the actual final score of the game.
we will never know if and how much this affected this game or any of the preceding games the team played (it is naive to assume this is the first occurrence, rather than a systematic approach).

i don't think that kicking the Patriots out of the Super Bowl is feasible at this point, but to suspend both Belichick and Brady for the game, seems the minimum that should be done, and possibly a much stiffer punishment to the equipment manager
 
Don't panic said:
... here is why ...
Click to expand...

Agree with your assessment. Well said.

Here's my conspiracy theory ...

Earlier this season Brady and the Patriots were struggling. It was somewhere around or after game four that they started playing better. My CT is that Brady was having difficulty gripping the ball with his weak and aged hands, and that was when they started to take the air out of their game balls ... most likely at the behest of a lower level coach, not Bill Belichick.

Just wanted in insert some pulled-from-the-butt speculation into the discussion.
 
ucfgrad93 said:
I think you have a different definition of the word neglect, my friend. If Brady knew he was letting out more air than the rules allowed, that is cheating not neglect.
Click to expand...

Neglect is defined as indifference, a failure to care for properly, a failure to do (something), disregard for, or a slight. Often people assume neglect implies ignorance or a lack of knowledge, but that's not true. Someone can neglect to follow a rule or guideline while having complete knowledge of the standard. It still remains to be proven if this neglect was done intentionally or unintentionally. In my opinion, cheating is a step beyond neglect in that it is intentionally making an effort to defraud or gain an unfair advantage. Can neglectful action be cheating, yes. Is all neglectful behavior cheating, not necessarily. A rule violation can occur as the result of neglect that was not intended to be cheating. I agree that in some cases it's a fine line, but the line does exist.

Don't panic said:
that was my first thought as well, but after hearing more about the case and the general (absurd, in truth) procedure on how the footballs are managed, i changed my mind.
Click to expand...

If it works just as you say then it certainly lends credibility to the argument that taking some additional air out was intentional. The key questions of intent and process still loom though. Who did it, on whose order, and to what specific purpose.

Regardless, I still see it as a minor rule infraction that should be punished with a fine. If the NFL thinks it's that big of a deal then alter the way game balls are handled. After they have been "customized" and officially checked by ref don 't put them back in the hands of the individual teams to manage . Put them on the sideline under official and game crew control to be rotated in and out of the game as needed. It's a simple fix to me.
 
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mscriv said:
If it works just as you say then it certainly lends credibility to the argument that taking some additional air out was intentional. The key questions of intent and process still loom though. Who did it, on whose order, and to what specific purpose.

Regardless, I still see it as a minor rule infraction that should be punished with a fine. If the NFL thinks it's that big of a deal then alter the way game balls are handled. After they have been "customized" and officially checked by ref don 't put them back in the hands of the individual teams to manage . Put them on the sideline under official and game crew control to be rotated in and out of the game as needed. It's a simple fix to me.
Click to expand...

i don't see it as such a minor infraction, especially on principle.
certainly not just fine-worthy.
i think it is clear Brady is directly responsible/involved, and i think that he lied in the press conference. Belichick might not be directly involved, but as the head coach he is the guy in charge so ultimately he is responsible.

as far as the future handling of the game balls, i see no reason whatsoever they should be 'prepped' at all.
define the standards and all game-balls should be identical, provided by the refs.
And both teams should play with the same set of balls.

my prediction is there will be a fall guy who gets blamed/admits to doing it on his own volition
 
Don't panic said:
If, as you and other say this was just a matter of 'neglect', of them deflating the balls 'by feeling' and not with a pressure gauge (which in this time and age requires a large dose of suspension of disbelief in itself, especially when hyper-professional characters like belichick and brady are involved),
Click to expand...

It's not really a large suspension of disbelief at all. The difference between 12.5 psi and 10.5 psi is nearly imperceptible. This has been discussed ad nauseum. Players have said it, coaches have said it, science experiments have shown it. And yes, Brady has said he prefers his balls at 12.5 psi, but I think that's more because it's the lowest allowed spec than him being able to tell the difference offhand.

The 2nd half they used balls within spec and it made no difference, and he said he didn't notice. Given the performance with that football, I can't see how you wouldn't believe him.

Even if you don't (and I'm sure many won't) this is a minor issue in football. It's been done before, will probably be done again, and if the NFL honestly thought it was a big deal they would have their employees handle the footballs. Again, this is because it's New England and another team made a big stink about it.

Don't panic said:
or -alternatively- if they had a defective pressure gauge, then the deflated balls would have been so BEFORE the ref checked on them. the refs would have measured them, found them deflated and would have asked them to inflate them to regulation.

However, this is NOT what happened: the balls given to the refs where properly inflated.
But those same balls, which could have not been legally tampered with from then on in any form, where at some point deflated AFTERWARD.

this did not happen by accident , and it wan't a form of "neglect", or an oversight.
rather, it was a conscious, strategic decision by 'someone' to (illegally) modify the balls, presumably to get a real or perceived advantage.

that is the very definition of cheating.

whether the advantage was major or minor is to an extent immaterial, as is the actual final score of the game.
we will never know if and how much this affected this game or any of the preceding games the team played (it is naive to assume this is the first occurrence, rather than a systematic approach).

i don't think that kicking the Patriots out of the Super Bowl is feasible at this point, but to suspend both Belichick and Brady for the game, seems the minimum that should be done, and possibly a much stiffer punishment to the equipment manager
Click to expand...

So, you're willing to believe that the embattled NFL refs are above suspicion when it comes to checking the psi? You believe, without hesitation, that they checked 48 footballs prior to the game?

Both Belichick and Brady have said outright they did not tamper with the footballs nor did they instruct anyone to do so. So, either you believe them or you don't. Occam's razor fits here, especially because the NFL has no proof of tampering whatsoever and has been unable to produce any since this "scandal" broke.

As to your suggested punishments...those are simply laughable. There's no evidence here to implicate either Brady or Belichick. Again, the typical NFL punishment for this kind of thing is suggested to be a fine (and in the $25,000 range). The Panthers, guilty of the same accusation (except with video proof of them warming balls on the sideline) got no punishment whatsoever. How does this stack up as fair to you? Because it's New England?

mscriv said:
Regardless, I still see it as a minor rule infraction that should be punished with a fine. If the NFL thinks it's that big of a deal then alter the way game balls are handled. After they have been "customized" and officially checked by ref don 't put them back in the hands of the individual teams to manage . Put them on the sideline under official and game crew control to be rotated in and out of the game as needed. It's a simple fix to me.
Click to expand...

Basically. Even if an equipment boy comes out and admits to deflating the balls, it's a minor rule infraction. And now more facts have come out that basically show how dumb this entire thing is (along with a complete lack of evidence to implicate Brady and Belichick as bold faced liars). If it were anything more it would be completely absurd.

I just can't get riled up about something like this in football. And yeah, I had that opinion before it involved the team I root for (see: Panthers and Aaron Rodgers).
 
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The league speaks!
Our office has been conducting an investigation as to whether the footballs used in last Sunday's AFC Championship Game complied with the specifications that are set forth in the playing rules. The investigation began based on information that suggested that the game balls used by the New England Patriots were not properly inflated to levels required by the playing rules, specifically Playing Rule 2, Section 1, which requires that the ball be inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds per square inch. Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sunday's game.

The investigation is being led jointly by NFL Executive Vice President Jeff Pash and Ted Wells of the law firm of Paul Weiss. Mr. Wells and his firm bring additional expertise and a valuable independent perspective. The investigation began promptly on Sunday night. Over the past several days, nearly 40 interviews have been conducted, including of Patriots personnel, game officials, and third parties with relevant information and expertise. We have obtained and are continuing to obtain additional information, including video and other electronic information and physical evidence. We have retained Renaissance Associates, an investigatory firm with sophisticated forensic expertise to assist in reviewing electronic and video information.

The playing rules are intended to protect the fairness and integrity of our games. We take seriously claims that those rules have been violated and will fully investigate this matter without compromise or delay. The investigation is ongoing, will be thorough and objective, and is being pursued expeditiously. In the coming days, we expect to conduct numerous additional interviews, examine video and other forensic evidence, as well as relevant physical evidence. While the evidence thus far supports the conclusion that footballs that were under-inflated were used by the Patriots in the first half, the footballs were properly inflated for the second half and confirmed at the conclusion of the game to have remained properly inflated. The goals of the investigation will be to determine the explanation for why footballs used in the game were not in compliance with the playing rules and specifically whether any noncompliance was the result of deliberate action. We have not made any judgments on these points and will not do so until we have concluded our investigation and considered all of the relevant evidence.

Upon being advised of the investigation, the Patriots promptly pledged their full cooperation and have made their personnel and other information available to us upon request. Our investigation will seek information from any and all relevant sources and we expect full cooperation from other clubs as well. As we develop more information and are in a position to reach conclusions, we will share them publicly.
Click to expand...
http://www.nj.com/super-bowl/index.ssf/2015/01/post_10.html
 
Queen of Spades said:
It's not really a large suspension of disbelief at all. The difference between 12.5 psi and 10.5 psi is nearly imperceptible. This has been discussed ad nauseum. Players have said it, coaches have said it, science experiments have shown it. And yes, Brady has said he prefers his balls at 12.5 psi, but I think that's more because it's the lowest allowed spec than him being able to tell the difference offhand.

The 2nd half they used balls within spec and it made no difference, and he said he didn't notice. Given the performance with that football, I can't see how you wouldn't believe him.

Even if you don't (and I'm sure many won't) this is a minor issue in football. It's been done before, will probably be done again, and if the NFL honestly thought it was a big deal they would have their employees handle the footballs. Again, this is because it's New England and another team made a big stink about it.



So, you're willing to believe that the embattled NFL refs are above suspicion when it comes to checking the psi? You believe, without hesitation, that they checked 48 footballs prior to the game?

Both Belichick and Brady have said outright they did not tamper with the footballs nor did they instruct anyone to do so. So, either you believe them or you don't. Occam's razor fits here, especially because the NFL has no proof of tampering whatsoever and has been unable to produce any since this "scandal" broke.

As to your suggested punishments...those are simply laughable. There's no evidence here to implicate either Brady or Belichick. Again, the typical NFL punishment for this kind of thing is suggested to be a fine (and in the $25,000 range). The Panthers, guilty of the same accusation (except with video proof of them warming balls on the sideline) got no punishment whatsoever. How does this stack up as fair to you? Because it's New England?



Basically. Even if an equipment boy comes out and admits to deflating the balls, it's a minor rule infraction. And now more facts have come out that basically show how dumb this entire thing is (along with a complete lack of evidence to implicate Brady and Belichick as bold faced liars). If it were anything more it would be completely absurd.

I just can't get riled up about something like this in football. And yeah, I had that opinion before it involved the team I root for (see: Panthers and Aaron Rodgers).
Click to expand...

you got me completely wrong, QoP, i could not care less on way or another which team it is.
i would have the exact same position of it was any other team.
i don't have dog in this fight, i just deeply dislike cheating

as far as evidence, are you suggesting that the balls were not, in fact, depleted? or that they were not checked before the game? and it doesn't strike strange to you that 11/12 of the patriot's ball were irregular, but the other team's were not.

you invoke Occam razor, but i don't think it helps your case: by far the easiest explanation is that they cheated and then they lied about it, not that by some curious coincidence only some specific balls 'lost' some air, but none of the presumed beneficiaries knew anything about it, or that the refs mismeasured only some of the balls. or some other conspiracy theory.
What is this 'simple' explanation of yours?
 
63dot said:
George W. Bush is a Harvard and Yale graduate.:p

You just have to love Sherman's impeccable logic:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/93251/richard-shermans-takedown-on-first-take

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6x-O3kb1sI

Brady and/or Belichick may be cheaters and a total disgrace to the NFL if the allegations are true but people don't have the facts one way or the other and are saying that the QB and/or coach are bad people. We don't know this but will probably find out soon enough. But there's one thing for sure, if you want a POS person you have it in Sherman. What the hell type of example is he leaving for the younger people?

It's actually worse because he's high profile and yes, the best at what he does. I don't doubt Seattle will go back to back and Sherman may even emerge as Super Bowl MVP if he gets a couple of key picks, but the debate is not in how he plays, but in how he carries himself. I don't care that he's on Seattle, and even though it sucks that Seattle is better than my team by a mile and perhaps everybody else, I just find him a nasty piece of work confident in knowing he will win but then using that as a platform to trash talk.

A jerk trash talks before a game, but Sherman is one of those really gross people who trash talk somebody they beat in an otherwise good game. Who the hell does that?

That being said I think the world forgives Seattle because you guys have such a class act as a coach and your QB is the best, both on the field and off. The amazing thing many don't know about is a QB that shot off to the best start of any QB in history and maintained his class and is what I like to see when the media covers Seattle, but it's Sherman who gets the cameras. He's a human train wreck.
Click to expand...

The NFL has the facts. The Patriot balls were under inflated. That's a fact not speculation.

Sherman trash talks in front of the camera. Other players do it behind the camera. At least Sherman is honest about it. He is however not a bad person. He does a lot of good at home for children and the community. Believe it or not the kids like him.

citizenzen said:
Agreed. Sherman is an immensely talented player and a Grade A ass.
Click to expand...

He's not an ass. He speaks the truth. If some people can't handle the truth that's their problem.

His take on Deflategate :

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/...ategate_n_6523248.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

"Seattle Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman says he already knows what effect “deflategate” is going to have on the Super Bowl: none at all.

And if his prediction comes to fruition, Sherman has a question for the National Football League: Do you care more about the color of my teammate’s shoes than about cheating?"
 
Don't panic said:
you got me completely wrong, QoP, i could not care less on way or another which team it is.
i would have the exact same position of it was any other team.
i don't have dog in this fight, i just deeply dislike cheating

as far as evidence, are you suggesting that the balls were not, in fact, depleted? or that they were not checked before the game? and it doesn't strike strange to you that 11/12 of the patriot's ball were irregular, but the other team's were not.

you invoke Occam razor, but i don't think it helps your case: by far the easiest explanation is that they cheated and then they lied about it, not that by some curious coincidence only some specific balls 'lost' some air, but none of the presumed beneficiaries knew anything about it, or that the refs mismeasured only some of the balls. or some other conspiracy theory.
What is this 'simple' explanation of yours?
Click to expand...

If you were going to tip off the league to an opponent of yours under-inflating footballs, would you not make sure your balls are 100% within spec? I just find it odd that everyone is rushing to submit their ideas for punishment when:

a) the precedent has been set for NO punishment for this infraction
b) the league clearly doesn't know what it's doing with these investigations
c) Brady and Belichick came out, publicly and said they did not deflate footballs or ask anyone to do so

The league hasn't given any specifics on this. The 2psi report was not from the league. Then there's confusion over whether or not the Patriots used their own backup balls for the 2nd half, or the Colts balls?

Until there's more substantial evidence of wrongdoing by the Patriots specifically, it's ridiculous to consider any kind of punishment. Did you read the league's prepared statement. Very, very vague and light on factual evidence.
 
Queen of Spades said:
If you were going to tip off the league to an opponent of yours under-inflating footballs, would you not make sure your balls are 100% within spec? I just find it odd that everyone is rushing to submit their ideas for punishment when:

a) the precedent has been set for NO punishment for this infraction
b) the league clearly doesn't know what it's doing with these investigations
c) Brady and Belichick came out, publicly and said they did not deflate footballs or ask anyone to do so

The league hasn't given any specifics on this. The 2psi report was not from the league. Then there's confusion over whether or not the Patriots used their own backup balls for the 2nd half, or the Colts balls?

Until there's more substantial evidence of wrongdoing by the Patriots specifically, it's ridiculous to consider any kind of punishment. Did you read the league's prepared statement. Very, very vague and light on factual evidence.
Click to expand...
The balls in question are from the first half. But I wonder how far back the league is going to look now. This might go back through this season or even past seasons.

The league has spoken to at least 40 people so far. They are taking this seriously.
 
Peace said:
He's not an ass. He speaks the truth. If some people can't handle the truth that's their problem.
Click to expand...

Hypothetical: Imagine if you came into work on Monday, and your co-worker said, "Good Lord Peace, you look like **** today. Have you gained even more weight? Well, at least now you're as fat as your wife."*

That might be the truth.

But he'd still be an ass for speaking it.

As a general rule, I find people who value the truth over tact to be asses.


*Of course this is purely hypothetical. I have no idea how good Peace looks, if he even has a wife, or how fat either of them may or may not be.
 
citizenzen said:
Hypothetical: Imagine if you came into work on Monday, and your co-worker said, "Good Lord Peace, you look like **** today. Have you gained even more weight? Well, at least now you're as fat as your wife."*

That might be the truth.

But he'd still be an ass for speaking it.

As a general rule, I find people who value the truth over tact to be asses.


*Of course this is purely hypothetical. I have no idea how good Peace looks, if he even has a wife, or how fat either of them may or may not be.
Click to expand...

You're comparing apples to oranges man.

There's a difference between the NFL and some office job.

But I defer.

Here's my final take on this in relation to the Super Bowl.

It's going to put a fire under one or both teams.

It will fire up the Pats and they will throttle Seattle in a blowout or it will fire up the Hawks and they will win in a blowout.

I tend to go with the Pats being fired up only because I think ( remember the tinfoil hat ) it was done on purpose to stir up the pot so the Pats have an edge because they have to "prove" they win without cheating.

Final score :

Patriots 35-10 over the Hawks.
 
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citizenzen said:
Hypothetical: Imagine if you came into work on Monday, and your co-worker said, "Good Lord Peace, you look like **** today. Have you gained even more weight? Well, at least now you're as fat as your wife."*

That might be the truth.

But he'd still be an ass for speaking it.

As a general rule, I find people who value the truth over tact to be asses.


*Of course this is purely hypothetical. I have no idea how good Peace looks, if he even has a wife, or how fat either of them may or may not be.
Click to expand...

Great point.

Sherman is one thing positive we all know which is a top defensive player any team could capitalize on. I may not like the guy but if the 49ers landed him, like they did Atlanta loudmouth Deion Sanders, I would be dancing in the street. BTW, Deion made good on his chest beating and was one of the keys for the Super Bowl win after the '94 season. Sherman is the type of talent who will not only get one or more rings with Seattle but could very well get other rings with other teams. He's that good and we know it, he knows it, the press knows it, but that doesn't change the fact that he's an ass.

However we do know, or agree, that truth over tact is very close to the definition of an ass. If there's another definition, I would love to hear it. When I think of ass these days, it's either Kim Kardashian or Richard Sherman.:p
 
MacNut said:
The balls in question are from the first half. But I wonder how far back the league is going to look now. This might go back through this season or even past seasons.

The league has spoken to at least 40 people so far. They are taking this seriously.
Click to expand...

Well, it's nice to see them investigating a football being under-inflated with vigor. Unlike their procedure for investigating brutal incidents of domestic violence, head trauma, and the health and welfare of their players post-playing career.

We didn't get that woman being knocked out by Ray Rice right, but by golly we will get to the bottom of these footballs!
 
63dot said:
Great point.

Sherman is one thing positive we all know which is a top defensive player any team could capitalize on. QBs don't throw his way but if they do it's very often not a good thing.

However we do know, or agree, that truth over tact is very close to the definition of an ass. When I think of ass these days, it's either Kim Kardashian or Richard Sherman.:p
Click to expand...

Football players and coaches have traditionally tried to avoid giving opponents "bulletin board material."

What we usually hear are people bending over backwards to not offend and the litany of bland clichés that we've all heard a thousand times before.
 
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