2014-15 NFL season thread

[Queen of Spades]

you invoke Occam razor, but i don't think it helps your case: by far the easiest explanation is that they cheated and then they lied about it, not that by some curious coincidence only some specific balls 'lost' some air, but none of the presumed beneficiaries knew anything about it, or that the refs mismeasured only some of the balls. or some other conspiracy theory.
What is this 'simple' explanation of yours?

Here is what I meant by Occam's razor: I don't trust the league or the referees. To me, the simplest explanation is that they weren't checked before the game with a gauge. And here's why: (emphasis mine)

Could the NFL be covering for its officials with Deflategate?

Eric Kester, who worked as a ball boy for the Chicago Bears in 2003, said part of his job was to work with the quarterback before the game to prepare the balls.

“We would then work with the quarterbacks to customize the balls to their liking,” Kester told Monica Alba of NBC News. “This involved scrubbing them with stiff horsehair brushes to rub off the leather’s slippery silicone sheen, and occasionally inflating or deflating the balls a very small amount, which I believe is legal to a degree. Quarterbacks are very particular about the way a ball feels in their hand, and we worked meticulously to match their particular preferences.”

We knew all that, but the next thing Kester said strikes me as incredibly interesting. Based on his experiences, the referees did not always stick a pressure gauge into every ball.

“I recall them having a pressure gauge in the locker room, but most often they just squeezed the balls, turned them over in their hands a few times each, and inspected the laces,” he explained. “I don’t recall them ever rejecting one of our balls.

“My thought process was, ‘Let’s get the balls exactly the way our quarterback wants them, and if the refs reject one or two before the game, no big deal. But there’s no harm giving them our ideal balls and hoping they make it through inspection.'”

Is it really all that unreasonable to wonder if the officials who checked the balls before the AFC Championship Game went with the “squeeze test” instead of measuring the actual air pressure? And if that did happen, would they admit to the NFL that they did not do their jobs the way they were supposed to?

I think this is dumb regardless (and I think most QBs in the league would agree), but if it is something people feel needs to be crusaded against, they need to have some clear evidence of tampering.

Again, the NFL has been extremely vague:

 

[MacNut]

Here is what I meant by Occam's razor: I don't trust the league or the referees. To me, the simplest explanation is that they weren't checked before the game with a gauge. And here's why: (emphasis mine)

Could the NFL be covering for its officials with Deflategate?



I think this is dumb regardless (and I think most QBs in the league would agree), but if it is something people feel needs to be crusaded against, they need to have some clear evidence of tampering.

Again, the NFL has been extremely vague:

Image

If the league was going to cover this up they would throw the officials under the bus not protect them. Why go after the Patriots for no reason. Plus they admited the balls were under inflated. Do you think the league wants this mess leading up to the Super Bowl?

 

[Queen of Spades]

If the league was going to cover this up they would throw the officials under the bus not protect them. Why go after the Patriots for no reason. Plus they admited the balls were under inflated. Do you think the league wants this mess leading up to the Super Bowl?

Are you kidding? They have done nothing to control this. They have zero control over information being disseminated, and they hadn't even talked to Tom Brady of all people as of yesterday. All they've done is confirm an investigation and release a vague press release that has done nothing but continue the swirl of speculation.

I can't believe people are trusting the NFL on this one when they've done nothing but show their incompetence.

 

[MacNut]

Are you kidding? They have done nothing to control this. They have zero control over information being disseminated, and they hadn't even talked to Tom Brady of all people as of yesterday. All they've done is confirm an investigation and release a vague press release that has done nothing but continue the swirl of speculation.

I can't believe people are trusting the NFL on this one when they've done nothing but show their incompetence.

I would not doubt if the Patriots have been doing this for years. Ever since Brady and Manning lobbied for this new football rule. I don't trust anything that comes out of Belichick or Brady's mouth.

I think the culture there is built on bending the rules to suit them.

 

[citizenzen]

... I can't believe people are trusting the NFL on this one when they've done nothing but show their incompetence.

I can't believe a rabid Pats fan doesn't trust the NFL investigation.

 

[MacNut]

Belichick this great football mind sure does know how to play stupid about not knowing there are rules about footballs being inflated. He plays this act about not knowing anything about what goes on around his football team when there is controversy.

 

[Peace]

I can't believe a rabid Pats fan doesn't trust the NFL investigation.

I can't believe the NFL has talked to 40 people and NOT talked to the coach or Brady.

Talk about Occam's razor.

 

[Queen of Spades]

I would not doubt if the Patriots have been doing this for years. Ever since Brady and Manning lobbied for this new football rule. I don't trust anything that comes out of Belichick or Brady's mouth.

I think the culture there is built on bending the rules to suit them.

Well, if you think so, it must be true. This is like the Keystone Cops. Again, let's see some hard evidence.

I can't believe a rabid Pats fan doesn't trust the NFL investigation.

Rabid is probably accurate, but I'm sure you can come up with a nicer sounding word.

And honestly, no, I don't. Roger Goodell has done nothing to show me he is trustworthy. He HAS shown me he's willing to throw the book at the Patriots in order to "send a message." He has shown me how to utterly and completely botch an investigation into something as serious as a brutal attack in an elevator. He has shown me he cares more about revenue than player safety. He has shown me he is willing to take a stand on something small and stupid in the hopes people forget what's actually a problem in the game (it's working).

Belichick this great football mind sure does know how to play stupid about not knowing there are rules about footballs being inflated. He plays this act about not knowing anything about what goes on around his football team when there is controversy.

When did he say he didn't know the rules? And not knowing anything? He said he's never discussed football psi. He said he's never directed anyone to deflate a football. He said he has nothing to do with the game day footballs. Pretty clear and straightforward. And a number of NFL QBs have come right out and said head coaches have nothing to do with footballs. Why is that hard to believe, but you'll jump right to Belichick straight out lying in his press conference?

I can't believe the NFL has talked to 40 people and NOT talked to the coach or Brady.

Talk about Occam's razor.

Exactly. It's ridiculous. But please, let's talk more about suspensions, punishments, and how the NFL is a bastion of integrity and competence.

 

[citizenzen]

... Roger Goodell has done nothing to show me he is trustworthy. ...

On that point I'll agree. IMO he's been making some really bad mistakes, as well as just not running the league well. I'd hate to be in your shoes because Goodell just may "take it out" on the Pats to make up for his past failings.

 

[MacNut]

I can't believe the NFL has talked to 40 people and NOT talked to the coach or Brady.

Talk about Occam's razor.

From Mike Florio,

It could be that the NFL has opted to tap the brakes when it comes to interviewing the principals because the NFL has realized that, if enough damning information is harvested before the week of the Super Bowl, the league will be expected to take dramatic action for the Super Bowl. After all, the NFL was ready to suspend Lions defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh for a playoff game after he stepped on the leg of Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers. Shouldn’t the league also be ready to suspend Brady if the league eventually concludes that he knew or should have known that the “perfect” balls he’d selected for the game were magically made even more “perfect” by the time he actually started throwing them?

So maybe the truth is that the NFL doesn’t want to conclude the investigation so quickly that it has no choice but to force the Patriots to be coached by Josh McDaniels (assuming he’s not caught up in this mess) and/or quarterbacked by Jimmy Garoppolo against a team that obliterated Peyton Manning in the Broncos in last year’s Super Bowl.

As Commissioner Roger Goodell has said, he always roots for the team that’s behind, because he wants the games to be exciting. If Belichick and/or Brady are prevented from participating in Super Bowl XLIX, Goodell would find himself rooting increasingly harder and harder for the Patriots.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/23/why-hasnt-brady-been-interviewed-yet/

 

[Peace]

From Mike Florio,
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/23/why-hasnt-brady-been-interviewed-yet/

Thats great and all but the NFL threatened to suspend Marshawn Lynch if he didn't take off his gold colored shoes in the conference championship.

There needs to be some equality here.

Which is worse ?

Wearing gold colored shoes or cheating ?

This will be a very interesting Super Bowl week that is for sure.

As far as Brady playing the "I don't know the difference in footballs " card :

https://twitter.com/TheLeadCNN/status/558741728224485376

 

[Queen of Spades]

On that point I'll agree. IMO he's been making some really bad mistakes, as well as just not running the league well. I'd hate to be in your shoes because Goodell just may "take it out" on the Pats to make up for his past failings.

That's what I'm worried about. That he'll do something stupid just to show he isn't a complete screw-up, which in this case would make it true.

To elaborate a bit on my occam's razor theory: It makes zero sense to me to risk messing around deflating balls on the sideline after inspection, especially when it would be really easy to screw up Brady's "preferred" feeling. He has said himself many times that once he approves a ball, he doesn't want it touched. So, the balls submitted to the refs before the game began passed inspection. I don't think any ball boy or equipment manager THEN decided to release some air in the hopes of guessing that Brady would like it without him being able to approve the difference between the approved balls and the deflated balls. Also, releasing air and trying to hit a number on a gauge would be completely noticeable. Yet there's no footage of this. I think the Patriots submitted balls below the spec psi and the refs okayed them as they felt fine.

"Inspection," in my opinion, probably happened. But no, I don't think they measured the balls with gauges. I think this is common in the league (and what Aaron Rodgers and others hope/expect, and what the Equipment Manager for the Bears admitted happens REGULARLY) and when questioned by the league the refs said they checked all the balls. I don't think they or anyone would think this would blow up like it did. I think the ref picks up the ball, squeezes the ball, and says it's okay or not. Of course this will likely change, now.

Deflating the balls is so high risk/low reward it really makes no sense. Especially when the discernible impact is basically nil (evidenced by the Patriots thrashing the Colts in the 2nd half).

And further, especially when the Patriots are well aware that they will be punished harshly for tiny infractions based on the Commissioner's asinine need to make a statement. But people would rather believe a complicated scenario of subterfuge that involves the Patriots lying repeatedly and CIA-ing a set of balls during a game.

 

[MacNut]

Thats great and all but the NFL threatened to suspend Marshawn Lynch if he didn't take off his gold colored shoes in the conference championship.

There needs to be some equality here.

Which is worse ?

Wearing gold colored shoes or cheating ?

This will be a very interesting Super Bowl week that is for sure.

As far as Brady playing the "I don't know the difference in footballs " card :

https://twitter.com/TheLeadCNN/status/558741728224485376

I would bet that Brady is interviewed last after they talk to everyone else and see if Brady's story matches. The NFL might have all of their answers already but want to see what Brady says and then say, "gotcha".

 

[Queen of Spades]

Thats great and all but the NFL threatened to suspend Marshawn Lynch if he didn't take off his gold colored shoes in the conference championship.

And that is BS. I think most fans agree on this. It's more evidence of the NFL being ridiculous.

There needs to be some equality here.

Which is worse ?

Wearing gold colored shoes or cheating ?

I don't know, how much Adderall can you fit in a pair of gold shoes? You had me and lost me by using this as a reason why Marshawn Lynch is being unfairly punished (or threatened to). It's a slippery slope with the whole cheating argument, one that no team could really stand up to if we started down the path you're suggesting.

As far as Brady playing the "I don't know the difference in footballs " card :

https://twitter.com/TheLeadCNN/status/558741728224485376

4TDs says he couldn't. And comparing both footballs at once totally misses the point.

 

[63dot]

Thats great and all but the NFL threatened to suspend Marshawn Lynch if he didn't take off his gold colored shoes in the conference championship.

There needs to be some equality here.

Which is worse ?

Wearing gold colored shoes or cheating ?

This will be a very interesting Super Bowl week that is for sure.

As far as Brady playing the "I don't know the difference in footballs " card :

https://twitter.com/TheLeadCNN/status/558741728224485376

Gold shoes? Who cares.

But cheating, yes, then throw out the offenders from the Super Bowl, but not whole freakin' team like this article says:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/23/opinion/jones-patriots-super-bowl/index.html

How on earth would a whole team cheat on deflating balls and not tell anyone (press, wife, girlfriend, etc) about it?

In the extremely unlikely event, imho, that the balls were tampered with then find the culprit quickly and ban him. My guess, if there is even anybody, is a misinformed asst. coach or ball boy.

I honestly don't think Belichick, who is up there with Schula type success or Brady, the co-owner of most records of last decade and a half along with Peyton Manning, are going to cheat at this point. Something like this would destroy a legacy. If it's who they are, Belichick and Brady, they would have done it long ago and got caught.

If Brady cheated, which I doubt, then yes sit him on the bench Sunday. I would be disappointed that such a legend would do such a thing which I consider as bad as doping (that kicked us in the gut in San Francisco with Barry Bonds who is now persona non grata). If it's proven then I would say ban him for this one game but make the penalty worse if it happens again and again. But for now, caught once, then sit out the next game but nothing like losing draft pick or banning entire team.

 

[MacNut]

Gold shoes? Who cares.

But cheating, yes, then throw out the offenders from the Super Bowl, but not whole freakin' team like this article says:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/23/opinion/jones-patriots-super-bowl/index.html

How on earth would a whole team cheat on deflating balls and not tell anyone (press, wife, girlfriend, etc) about it?

In the extremely unlikely event, imho, that the balls were tampered with then find the culprit quickly and ban him. My guess, if there is even anybody, is a misinformed asst. coach or ball boy.

I honestly don't think Belichick, who is up there with Schula type success or Brady, the co-owner of most records of last decade and a half along with Peyton Manning, are going to cheat at this point. Something like this would destroy a legacy. If it's who they are, Belichick and Brady, they would have done it long ago and got caught.

If Brady cheated, which I doubt, then yes sit him on the bench Sunday. I would be disappointed that such a legend would do such a thing which I consider as bad as doping (that kicked us in the gut in San Francisco with Barry Bonds who is now persona non grata). If it's proven then I would say ban him for this one game but make the penalty worse if it happens again and again. But for now, caught once, then sit out the next game but nothing like losing draft pick or banning entire team.

I think you are being a little naive. Belichick doesn't care as long as he wins. He would bend the rules to the point of snapping if it gave hi a victory. Just because he is playing dumb to the cameras don't believe he is clueless.

 

[63dot]

I think you are being a little naive. Belichick doesn't care as long as he wins. He would bend the rules to the point of snapping if it gave hi a victory. Just because he is playing dumb to the cameras don't believe he is clueless.

Do you think he would take the risk of having him or the team disqualified? I don't think so. This is the Super Bowl and do you think he wants to be the first team kicked off, and after having been there twice in the last ten years losing both times while heavily favored? The best thing to do to drop that big game loser moniker (of last decade) is to play fair and win. I don't think he wants an asterisk next to his name if the Patriots win this one.

He may not always come off as the nice guy but of all the things he is or isn't, he's not stupid.

I am sure he has to testify to this under oath already during the questioning of 40 people, if this is to be taken seriously, and this is not worth lying and getting jail time. Pete Rose lied about a so-called gambling incident and DA wanted to incarcerate him which seemed out of proportion but it's still possible.

I don't get how ex-coaches and/or players who weren't there are so convinced of cheating. Did they do it themselves? How could Troy Aikman or John Madden point fingers at Brady? If the balls were tampered with illegally then you have to find culprit and why all of a sudden Brady? This makes for great copy and juicy gossip but we are talking about the possible outcome of the Super Bowl or who even plays.

 

[MacNut]

Do you think he would take the risk of having him or the team disqualified? I don't think so. This is the Super Bowl and do you think he wants to be the first team kicked off, and after having been there twice in the last ten years losing both times while heavily favored? The best thing to do to drop that big game loser moniker (of last decade) is to play fair and win. I don't think he wants an asterisk next to his name if the Patriots win this one.

He may not always come off as the nice guy but of all the things he is or isn't, he's not stupid.

Do you really think they would disqualify the Patriots from the Superbowl? This isn't the Olympics or the Black Sox scandal. This is also why the league is stalling, they are going to wait until after the game before doing anything.

 

[63dot]

Do you really think they would disqualify the Patriots from the Superbowl? This isn't the Olympics or the Black Sox scandal. This is also why the league is stalling, they are going to wait until after the game before doing anything.

The whole team disqualified? I hope not. But disqualify coach, assistants and/or players involved, yes absolutely if they (NFL) have a spine.

If there is cheating and it's proven and the NFL knew about it but let culprits get away with it and play the game, then it's the NFL who has the problem there. I love football, but if NFL wants this game so much as to know about it and not punish perps before game, I will never watch the NFL again (after having been a fan for 40 years).

There's no way a whole team could be in on this deflate gate and that would virtually be impossible and though NFL may overreact and toss whole team and put in Colts, I don't think banning a whole team is the answer.

As an aside, it's a little odd that the refs who handle the ball in a sport they get handsomely to ref didn't notice anything about the balls during the game. Why is that? Maybe they can miss it once, or maybe one ref can miss it once, but all refs missing underinflated balls during a whole half or even whole game? Come on.

 

[maflynn]

Do you really think they would disqualify the Patriots from the Superbowl? This isn't the Olympics or the Black Sox scandal. This is also why the league is stalling, they are going to wait until after the game before doing anything.

I don't think the NFL is going to do anything prior to the Super Bowl.

If they find even the slightest shred of evidence against Belicheck, I think they're going to come down on him, and ban him for an extended time. Tbh, I did believe him on his news conference. I think this instance, he's free and clear.

In some ways, though he does deserve some responsibility, because I think there's a win at all cost attitude and that translated into bending/breaking the rules if they see fit

 

[pachyderm]

i still don't think it is that big a deal.

also, i bet a lot of teams do the same thing. or some other equivalent.

 

[maflynn]

i still don't think it is that big a deal.

also, i bet a lot of teams do the same thing. or some other equivalent.

I'm not thinking its a big deal, but reactions from others (maybe its ESPN's fault) are making it seem like to them its a big deal. I think the NFL itself is making it a big deal since they hired an independent investigator. I wonder if that's more a PR move since they (the NFL) conducted 40 interviews on this, what else can the investigators uncover?

 

[pachyderm]

I'm not thinking its a big deal, but reactions from others (maybe its ESPN's fault) are making it seem like to them its a big deal. I think the NFL itself is making it a big deal since they hired an independent investigator. I wonder if that's more a PR move since they (the NFL) conducted 40 interviews on this, what else can the investigators uncover?

probably.

i am pretty sure the colts were destined to get their asses kicked last weekend.


P.S. all NFL teams cheat somehow, someway. the trick is not getting caught. and i'd lay odds games are fixed too. sorry to be so jaded but, come on man...

 

[MacNut]

The Colts themselves said that the balls didn't make a difference in their ass beating. Sure all teams bend the rules, but do they all go to the extent that the Patriots do? If teams see the Patriots blatantly breaking rules would that piss off the other teams enough to report them.

 

[AustinIllini]

The Colts themselves said that the balls didn't make a difference in their ass beating. Sure all teams bend the rules, but do they all go to the extent that the Patriots do? If teams see the Patriots blatantly breaking rules would that piss off the other teams enough to report them.

The Patriots have an institutional philosophy based on getting ahead.

It's working. They're beating the pants off everyone with talent and creativity.

The balls don't matter and we don't know who else is doing it. This is like a parking ticket. The Patriots did it with the understanding that the officials are too stupid to check.

It's going to change a rule after the season is over. Let them play the game.