2021 Formula 1 Season Thread

[Glideslope]

More to the point why no 1st red flag after the Stroll accident? Who owns F1? Given how 1 phone call and Micheal Massey red flags the race.. That is more important, as it sends a clear message of who has the power in F1.. Not Merc, Not Aston Martin, Red Bull own F1, they called the race... Why 12 laps for Stroll, and not for Verstappen....

1 radio call... We had no warning, I bet the same message was at Aston Martin, they had no warning, then no red flag, then Verstappen, red flag, that says a lot about F1 and power bases...

The Stroll failure at the time could have been a puncture in the Massey's mind. I can see that. The Red Flag was appropriately thrown after Max's failure for tire inspections and putting on new sets.

The FAR more important issue in my mind is why did it take 1:30 min for a SC after Max's crash. Very dangerous hesitation by Massey IMO. To be fair even Charlie would screw up once and a while, but a 1:30 min SC deploy after a Double Yellow on that straight is inexcusable.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

It is possible he hit it only once, and it jammed on, which led to the forest fire he had for brakes, or he lost composure, went a bit mental for a moment, and headed straight to the scene of the incident, hitting it a 2nd time seems implausible, given it has never occurred before, and I would have suspected that at any track in the season this accidental hitting would have occurred, Monaco would be it.. Not a static restart.. That is all, just seems odd, as to why now and not during the run down to the Lowe's hairpin at Monaco, that sudden left to right, bump at the crest of the hill... There it would make sense to bump the button..at a restart, level track...hard to believe.. The data logged pdf would reveal...

Mercedes and Lewis have explained what happened.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

For those who watched live... when the race was red flagged, Hamilton jumped out of the car in the pit lane and looked very fatigued. He was noticeably limping and walking funny which can be understandable after 49 laps. It's just that I was looking at the other drivers that got out of the car and they all seemed fine. Maybe Lewis was just a but fatigued yesterday leading to the magic error.

He’s more than 10 years older than a lot of his rivals too. It might be he just nudged the lever/switch with his glove? It’s not happened before but there is a first for anything.

 

[JustinePaula]

Ok, you believe that, for me it does not make sense, it sounds like an excuse, there is nothing stopping Merc from publishing the restart from the formation lap to the point Lewis heads off on a tour of turn 1...Was "magic" on, off then on, or stuck on.. Given how much smoke there was, I think maybe it was stuck on, and Lewis is confused.. The data logged pdf will explain...

Still not convinced why there was no red flag for Stroll, given the radio message from Red Bull.. Race control would have asked the obvious question to Aston Martin, "did you have any warning..." No I guess would have been the result, so given there was no warning, it was an instant tyre failure, Massey felt it prudent to order a red flag at the 2nd tyre failure.. Logically he should have done it at the first.. Why the 2nd tyre failure and not the 1st? Something is not right...Collusion between F1 and RBR? Nothing else explains Massey's decisions.. He cannot say the 2 are not the same, when they are.. both cars did exactly the same thing at almost the same point on the track, and there is a lot of video about the tyre issues during the British Grand Prix, where Lewis won on 3 wheels, that tyre failure of Bottas..

 

[CWallace]

After Stroll's crash, a number of cars running on Hards since the start of the race, as well, pitted for new tires. Pirelli pulled all those tires from the teams and performed an inspection and did not see any obvious signs of impending failure.

Yes, it was probably a visual inspection so if these failures are traced to the compounds / construction in an area that can only be identified through a deeper forensic examination using x-rays or such, they're not going to be able to do that at the track.

I believe Stroll started on hard tires and they failed at 32 laps. Max switched to Hards around Lap 15 and they failed around 30 laps later. So if these tires were "lap limited" to around 30-35 laps, we were already approaching the end of the race when they would start to let go. This is different from Silverstone where multiple tires were failing mid-race so the Race Stewards could arguably make a more obvious "cause and effect" case.

All that being said, if they had forced a mandatory switch to new rubber on Lap 35 that would have meant only 16 laps on the new tire so they likely would have survived. But how would the Stewards have dealt with it in a fair manner? Not every car was on Hards at the time so what about the cars on Softs or Mediums? Do you force them to go to fresh Hards, as well, destroying their strategy? You'd also probably be destroying the strategy of cars who switched to Hards later than the earliest runners since they would now have lost the advantage of fresher rubber at the later stages of the race. And what about a slow pit stop? Do you freeze the field and then re-assemble it on the track behind the SC prior to the restart?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Ok, you believe that, for me it does not make sense, it sounds like an excuse, there is nothing stopping Merc from publishing the restart from the formation lap to the point Lewis heads off on a tour of turn 1...Was "magic" on, off then on, or stuck on.. Given how much smoke there was, I think maybe it was stuck on, and Lewis is confused.. The data logged pdf will explain...

Still not convinced why there was no red flag for Stroll, given the radio message from Red Bull.. Race control would have asked the obvious question to Aston Martin, "did you have any warning..." No I guess would have been the result, so given there was no warning, it was an instant tyre failure, Massey felt it prudent to order a red flag at the 2nd tyre failure.. Logically he should have done it at the first.. Why the 2nd tyre failure and not the 1st? Something is not right...Collusion between F1 and RBR? Nothing else explains Massey's decisions.. He cannot say the 2 are not the same, when they are.. both cars did exactly the same thing at almost the same point on the track, and there is a lot of video about the tyre issues during the British Grand Prix, where Lewis won on 3 wheels, that tyre failure of Bottas..

Why do Mercedes need to publish confidential telemetry data that isn’t usually available to anybody except themselves and the FIA?

Do you think Lewis suddenly forgot he was a 7 times WDC with a usually mistake free race-craft, to a bad rookie who became clinically insane? There’s no coverup here, Lewis made a mistake and admitted it.

 

[michael9891]

We need Brundleony back in here to weigh in on what happened with Lewis and why the race was stopped after the 2nd blow out. He knows everything and I sorely miss his insight.

 

[JustinePaula]

I am questioning the decision to SC the Stroll accident, and the red flag of Verstappen, in light of the radio broadcast from RBR to race control, when both accidents are identical as to type and place on track..All very odd, and did Lewis make a mistake, or not.. Really it does not matter, I don't believe a word any driver says, they are "managed" rendering any views pointless.. Was Lewis told to take responsibility to hide a defect on the car? Just theories...

Somethings do not add up, the blowout of Stroll's tyres and the no red flag, we endured a dozen laps when a red flag would have been better.. Take 45 min to clean the track, and have 30 racing laps.. They are quick to red flag during FP1,2,3,Qualifying.. Had Massey red flagged after Stroll's accident, we might not have had a 2nd incident..

Maybe this will change the way the event is run, if there is a blowout like the 2 in Baku, this would mandate a tyre change within 3 laps for all teams on that grade of tyre.. I kind of hope so, it would "spice" up the event, a bit like rain does mid race, then a drying track, do you stay on inter's or go to slicks.. In this case it would be on safety grounds, and give the anaracks something to do....Just suggestions really..

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I am questioning the decision to SC the Stroll accident, and the red flag of Verstappen, in light of the radio broadcast from RBR to race control, when both accidents are identical as to type and place on track..All very odd, and did Lewis make a mistake, or not.. Really it does not matter, I don't believe a word any driver says, they are "managed" rendering any views pointless.. Was Lewis told to take responsibility to hide a defect on the car? Just theories...

Somethings do not add up, the blowout of Stroll's tyres and the no red flag, we endured a dozen laps when a red flag would have been better.. Take 45 min to clean the track, and have 30 racing laps.. They are quick to red flag during FP1,2,3,Qualifying.. Had Massey red flagged after Stroll's accident, we might not have had a 2nd incident..

Maybe this will change the way the event is run, if there is a blowout like the 2 in Baku, this would mandate a tyre change within 3 laps for all teams on that grade of tyre.. I kind of hope so, it would "spice" up the event, a bit like rain does mid race, then a drying track, do you stay on inter's or go to slicks.. In this case it would be on safety grounds, and give the anaracks something to do....Just suggestions really..

It sounded like a genuine conversation between Lewis and his engineer to me. A frustrated driver asking whether a setting had messed up his race. Nothing about it sounded scripted or contrived. These things happen and I fail to see what advantage Mercedes would gain from lying about it?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

We need Brundleony back in here to weigh in on what happened with Lewis and why the race was stopped after the 2nd blow out. He knows everything and I sorely miss his insight.

There must be plenty of Sao Paolo based fans with an inside knowledge of British teams better than anybody else out there?

 

[CWallace]

I am questioning the decision to SC the Stroll accident, and the red flag of Verstappen, in light of the radio broadcast from RBR to race control, when both accidents are identical as to type and place on track.

Stroll crashed off the racing line near the Pit Entrance with a significant portion of the field already ahead of him and with almost the entire lap to run before they returned to the site of the crash. Again, IMO, closing the pits and calling out the SC was acceptable because it immediately slowed the field and prevented the handful of trailing cars from diving into Pit Lane and possibly hitting debris and causing additional accidents.

Max crashed on the main straight on the racing line with the entire field approaching the incident at full racing speed. I am not 100% sure of the rules, but I believe under a physical SC drivers do not need to significantly reduce their speed until they hook up with the SC and so they could still storm down much of the front straight and possibly hit debris from Max's car and cause more accidents. I know Virtual Safety cars slow the field to certain time targets, but I believe that is per sector so there might still have been the possibility of cars approaching Max's wreck at close to racing speed.

Under a Red Flag, I believe drivers have to immediately reduce their speed and prepare to pit so they would be slowing down on the straight (and why I believe some of the lead cars like LeClerc (?) were asking if they needed to pit immediately or if they could slow down and pit on the next lap).

Was Lewis told to take responsibility to hide a defect on the car? Just theories...

I am very skeptical of any mechanical defect. Looking at the visual evidence, IMO, Lewis just overcooked the brakes on the warm-up lap and they underperformed under maximum load.

 

[michael9891]

Of all people, you really think Lewis is someone that would take the blame to cover up a car defect? Is this the F1 thread or X-Files?

 

[Apple fanboy]

Some really strange conspiracy theories on here today.
Lewis made a mistake. He owned up. It happens.
Stroll tyre explodes it could be a one off. Dealt with under a SC.
Max’s tyre explodes it’s looking more like a bigger issue. RBR also share that there was no warning. A red flag is the safe way to deal with it.
No lies.
No cover ups.
No conspiracy theory.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Of all people, you really think Lewis is someone that would take the blame to cover up a car defect? Is this the F1 thread or X-Files?

Can you imagine it?

Toto: “Hi Lewis this is Toto, we screwed up a car setting and we want you to start a conversation at the end of the race where you question it and then admit responsibility. All cool with that homie?”

Lewis: “yeah no problem. Do you want me to act frustrated or just pretend I suddenly became an incompetent, forgetful dribbling moron on the restart?”

Toto: “just pretend you turned something on like a magic button or a mystical lever and make it sound convincing”.

 

[pachyderm]

More to the point why no 1st red flag after the Stroll accident? Who owns F1? Given how 1 phone call and Micheal Massey red flags the race.. That is more important, as it sends a clear message of who has the power in F1.. Not Merc, Not Aston Martin, Red Bull own F1, they called the race... Why 12 laps for Stroll, and not for Verstappen....

1 radio call... We had no warning, I bet the same message was at Aston Martin, they had no warning, then no red flag, then Verstappen, red flag, that says a lot about F1 and power bases...

eehh...

I don't thing RBR own F1 per se.

I do think that after two very similar tire failures it merits a red flag. Should it have happened after the first one? Maybe.

They did the right thing after the second. That said, if they finish under the Safety Car Checo still wins and LEWIS gets second place points. And maybe that is what you are upset about, HAM not getting any points.

Again: HAM fans pick another driver to root for, keep rooting for HAM, but fall in love with someone outside of a top 3 team and see what it's like to root for someone who isn't guaranteed a points finish. Then maybe you'll understand.

 

[pachyderm]

Of all people, you really think Lewis is someone that would take the blame to cover up a car defect? Is this the F1 thread or X-Files?

He did though!

He said he messed up!

Look, I'm no fan but only because MERC/LH winning all the time is boring.

But he's a decent man when it's all said and done he's at least honest as anyone else as far as I can tell.

 

[michael9891]

He did though!

He said he messed up!

Look, I'm no fan but only because MERC/LH winning all the time is boring.

But he's a decent man when it's all said and done he's at least honest as anyone else as far as I can tell.

I don't think you understood what I said.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

He did though!

He said he messed up!

Look, I'm no fan but only because MERC/LH winning all the time is boring.

But he's a decent man when it's all said and done he's at least honest as anyone else as far as I can tell.

Michael was suggesting Lewis is not the type of person who would admit a mistake unless he did indeed make one. I think the conversation between Lewis and his engineer shows there is a good team spirit at Merc. A lot was made of Lewis getting frustrated in Monaco and shouting at his team by Facebook F1 fans but these people don’t have much experience of F1 to comment. These F1 guys are adults who get frustrated with each other like any team does and it’s healthy to see as it shows commitment and passion.

I agree watching the same driver win all the time is boring and although I support Hamilton, I do like to see him win but fight for it. We do have a habit of looking back on these dominant eras though and admiring the drivers and technology involved, even if at the time we get bored of it.

 

[pachyderm]

Michael was suggesting Lewis is not the type of person who would admit a mistake unless he did indeed make one. I think the conversation between Lewis and his engineer shows there is a good team spirit at Merc. A lot was made of Lewis getting frustrated in Monaco and shouting at his team by Facebook F1 fans but these people don’t have much experience of F1 to comment. These F1 guys are adults who get frustrated with each other like any team does and it’s healthy to see as it shows commitment and passion.

I agree watching the same driver win all the time is boring and although I support Hamilton, I do like to see him win but fight for it. We do have a habit of looking back on these dominant eras though and admiring the drivers and technology involved, even if at the time we get bored of it.

Going out on a limb here but you are literally the single most level headed fan of HAM I've ever had the pleasure of communicating with. Well done.

I'm going to make you an "Honorary Member In Good Standing of the Jarno Trulli Fan Club".

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Going out on a limb here but you are literally the single most level headed fan of HAM I've ever had the pleasure of communicating with. Well done.

I'm going to make you an "Honorary Member In Good Standing of the Jarno Trulli Fan Club".

Thanks mate. I like Jarno too, used to make great red wine. Not sure if he’s still in that business but I tried it and liked it .

The problem with Hamilton fans is sadly because he is so successful now, he has acquired a new range of fans who only support him because of this. I’ve followed him closely since 2006 when I noticed his performances in GP2. He also had a few years in F1 where the success died down and he fought to get back to the front. I also cringe at some of the fans comments as it then reflects on everybody who supports him lol.

 

[pachyderm]

Thanks mate. I like Jarno too, used to make great red wine. Not sure if he’s still in that business but I tried it and liked it .

The problem with Hamilton fans is sadly because he is so successful now, he has acquired a new range of fans who only support him because of this. I’ve followed him closely since 2006 when I noticed his performances in GP2. He also had a few years in F1 where the success died down and he fought to get back to the front. I also cringe at some of the fans comments as it then reflects on everybody who supports him lol.

Agreed.

I really enjoyed HAM's first title way back when.

I believe Jarno is still making wine!

 

[Crazy Badger]

Maybe this will change the way the event is run, if there is a blowout like the 2 in Baku, this would mandate a tyre change within 3 laps for all teams on that grade of tyre.. I kind of hope so, it would "spice" up the event, a bit like rain does mid race, then a drying track, do you stay on inter's or go to slicks.. In this case it would be on safety grounds, and give the anaracks something to do....Just suggestions really..

This is almost as crazy as Bernie's sprinkler suggestion. I like it

 

[pachyderm]

Why did HAM and BOT switch chassis ?

Now it seems BOT is killing it and HAM is struggling.


Hang on, from another site:

Bottas complained that his car wasn't to the same standard as Hamiltons.
Toto then took the decision to prove that they are the same...


Cool. I hadn't realized BOT complained.

 

[pachyderm]

Paul Ricard > Magny-Cours ...?

I've never really liked Magny-Cours.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Paul Ricard > Magny-Cours ...?

I've never really liked Magny-Cours.

Magny Cours is a much better circuit than Paul Ricard in my view. More overtaking zones which have invited better racing over the years.