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Is your display having the problem described?

  • iMac 21.5" both grey bars look identical in color

    Votes: 102 8.9%
  • iMac 21.5" the bottom bar looks more yellow

    Votes: 199 17.4%
  • iMac 27" both grey bars look identical in color

    Votes: 311 27.2%
  • iMac 27" the bottom bar looks more yellow

    Votes: 533 46.6%

  • Total voters
    1,145
Thirdly, if your camera takes perfect pictures, why use photoshop to fix the image? Do a search for, lets pick something well known, pink tint nexus one camera... While much worse than a good digital camera, that sort of phenom occurs in nearly every digital camera, just some have better firmware, lens, sensors, etc.

Wow. You say you may know a photographer but you are definitely not one, right? The images don't have to be "fixed", the levels have to be tweaked and the grey balance has to be worked out in post simply because a consumer-level camera does not have these facilities usually. Any photographer can tell you that you can do grey balance and levels in post and it's not because of the fault of the camera, sometimes it is easier.

If you want I will break out my $1000 DSLR and compare its shots of my screen to the shots of my screen from my $150 sub-compact. You will find the yellow problem apparent in both, not due to magical camera sensor issues that just so happen to place a yellow gradient in the corners of the screen.

And btw, if it were a digital camera problem it'd be easily detectable by boosting the saturation of the entire image and seeing if there is a discoloration OUTSIDE THE AREA OF THE SCREEN. A yellowing that magically stops at the bezel of the screen should not be assumed to be a camera sensor problem.

Anyway, you are clearly right and my superior intellect and experience with digital photography and the sensor and lens technologies involved should not sway you.
 
Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread but....

...I have sort of the opposite question: I have a brand new iMac that clearly has a warmer bottom third than the rest of the screen. I'm trying to take photos and am doing so with my 5 megapixel iPhone 4. The iPhone does not show the yellowing (almost) at all, whereas it's much more obvious to the naked eye.

So the question is; do I need another camera with which to play with the settings in order to capture it properly, or is the fact that my iPhone doesn't pick it up mean it's really not as bad as many of the other photos posted on this thread? Any advice would be appreciated. My wife has a Nikon D50 but I haven't tried that yet....
 
....
My wife has a Nikon D50 but I haven't tried that yet....

Nikon D50 should be good. Try to make pictures in a dark room (best - painted all black:)), using a longer focal length and being well centered above middle of the screen. You may want to play with settings a little bit to avoid visible moire pattern and maybe screen refresh effects.

Tom B.
 
Nikon D50 should be good. Try to make pictures in a dark room (best - painted all black:)), using a longer focal length and being well centered above middle of the screen. You may want to play with settings a little bit to avoid visible moire pattern and maybe screen refresh effects.

Tom B.

Thanks - I'll try that at night with the lights off. So basically you're saying that just because my iPhone's camera didn't pick up the yellow tint doesn't mean it's not as severe as the others on this forum. Basically I was questioning whether the fact that a basic 5 mp iPhone camera can't pick up the tint means it's not as severe as what others are seeing, or is it that they use better cameras to post their pics with? The tint is definitely there to my eye.
 
Thanks - I'll try that at night with the lights off. So basically you're saying that just because my iPhone's camera didn't pick up the yellow tint doesn't mean it's not as severe as the others on this forum. Basically I was questioning whether the fact that a basic 5 mp iPhone camera can't pick up the tint means it's not as severe as what others are seeing, or is it that they use better cameras to post their pics with? The tint is definitely there to my eye.

I have seen some yellow, but also reddish left and tight of the screen.

Tom B.
 
Wow. You say you may know a photographer but you are definitely not one, right? The images don't have to be "fixed", the levels have to be tweaked and the grey balance has to be worked out in post simply because a consumer-level camera does not have these facilities usually. Any photographer can tell you that you can do grey balance and levels in post and it's not because of the fault of the camera, sometimes it is easier.

If you want I will break out my $1000 DSLR and compare its shots of my screen to the shots of my screen from my $150 sub-compact. You will find the yellow problem apparent in both, not due to magical camera sensor issues that just so happen to place a yellow gradient in the corners of the screen.

And btw, if it were a digital camera problem it'd be easily detectable by boosting the saturation of the entire image and seeing if there is a discoloration OUTSIDE THE AREA OF THE SCREEN. A yellowing that magically stops at the bezel of the screen should not be assumed to be a camera sensor problem.

Anyway, you are clearly right and my superior intellect and experience with digital photography and the sensor and lens technologies involved should not sway you.

I did not say the yellow tint issue was a result of the camera and not real. I pointed out that you can't sit here and tell someone how far off their screen is based off a photo posted from a digital camera of unknown quality, with unknown settings, etc. Digital cameras are notorious for having poor color uniformity, especially lower end ones with crap optics. To say take a picture of a grey screen in a dark room, post it, and I can tell you if you have good screen or not is extremely disingenuous, to say the least.

What should you tell someone? Take a look at your screen with a solid color and decide for yourself... if you can't tell whether it has problem or not, then it likely doesn't have a problem, and especially doesn't have one worth fretting over.

Beyond that, lets say screen is 20 points of cyan, and it is specifically in the corners... well, that is an assessment none of us could make in good faith given the number of factors at play that could just as easily cause that to be present in the photo, from bad optics, to bad settings, to bad angles, and so forth...

There is a reason pro's use thousand dollar cameras with thousand dollar lens and then on top of that thousand dollar software designed to fix the imperfections of the camera, lens, etc... lets just take a quick look at what photoshop can do to fix common problems with a picture from a digital camera:

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Photoshop/11.0/WSF65FB40F-00F5-445a-BD9A-38B3737A9A19a.html

Hmmmm... lets see here, correcting fringe discoloration... hmm, Tom keeps telling people that they have blue fringes... hmmmmm...

I am not a pro photographer, but I have taken plenty of pictures and had to use photoshop to correct them. I have used cheap cameras and very expensive ones (I often borrow my sister in laws when I am updating the artwork on my fiancee's website and I want to make sure they are as perfect as possible, and without exception I have to fix discoloration on the fringe of the photos... and this is with a camera that cost well over 1K and the lens cost just as much, exact names not sure, cannon camera and lens)

And if any of you are truly a pro photographer, you would know that to treat a picture uploaded here as if it is 100% color accurate and perfect to tell someone their screen is just barely off more than the human eye can even detect in perfect lighting is a load of crap.

Now, I am going to say it again, very nice and cool, but it is fatally flawed to try and tell people their screen is 20 points of cyan too cool based off a photo uploaded on a website and that they should take the computer in to get checked out.

And I am also going to say it once more, this does not mean people do not have an issue with yellow tint or uniform color distribution, it simply means if you can't see it when you look at your screen under proper testing conditions, then it is fine and enjoy your iMac. If you can see it, and it effects your user experience, take it in. But to base the decision off a flawed test done by some random guy on the internet that believes electronics are perfect, well... if electronics were perfect then your screen wouldn't have an issue in the first place, and if some random guy on the internet always knew what he was talking about perfectly to a T then there wouldn't even be an argument going on here in the first place.

(PS, if you want me to post pictures of paper I can too! I have great pictures of paper with yellow tint on the edges, blue tint, red tint, washed out edges with yellow centers, and so forth... given that cameras must be perfect according to you guys, maybe I should take the paper back and demand a refund, even though with my own two eyes it looks white, my eyes must be wrong since when I took a picture it didn't show up a uniform white...)
 

Every single screen I have seen here has the issue, save for one questionable photo at High ISO which most likely was masking the issue.

Your assertions in the above post are utter crap. Fringes? Really? I have never seen chromatic aberration or blue/yellow or cyan/red fringing mistaken for screen yellowing in this thread. Can you please point us to where this might be?

And since you clearly don't know what fringe entails, in most photos it accounts for only a few pixels near the edges of high contrast areas. Like a tree against an overcast sky. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with a large area of yellow across one corner of an iMac screen, and if you think so then I can't help you. And also, just because you put words in Btom's mouth and call it "fringing" doesn't mean it is the same fringing present from optical distortion. Fringe can mean "happens at the edges" and that's usually where the yellowing/bluing occurs, no?

Btom's analyses, wherein he states X% deficiency, etc. are informative assuming he has white/grey balanced the photo. STILL, depending on his methodologies, the white/grey balance doesn't even matter if he is comparing one corner to another, and noting which has more yellow or more cyan. And, despite the exact numbers of his analyses, I've never seen an actual screen on here that I think is worth keeping, just based on viewing it with my eyes, and disregarding numbers entirely.

I also enjoy how you completely make up things which I've never said. "Electronics are perfect"?? I think not. Is nearly every single consumer-level camera capable of displaying the yellowing issue without any doubt? YES. If you see the yellowing, it's NOT going to be the camera's fault, or "bad optics" fault, whatever the hell you think that means. "Bad optics" certainly aren't going to overlay a yellow tinge on the iMac screen, but not the surroundings, or any of the other pictures the person takes with their camera. As for "bad angles", I think taking the photo dead-on is a pretty good angle, and most people include several different angles. Which, BY THE WAY, the yellowing is apparent at any angle, so I don't know why you think the angle actually matters.

So let ME say it again... The only issue we have on here is that the images often do not show the problem ENOUGH, as described by many people who can see the issue with their own eyes, and who tell us it looks worse in person.

I also enjoy that you attempt to strengthen your (complete lack of an) argument by calling me "some random guy on the internet", which is funny because so are you! What makes my argument actually valid and yours invalid is that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and it is very apparent to me, who has a large amount of knowledge on the subject, and can tell just by the way you speak that you are not very knowledgeable on the subject. And holding your sister's camera does not make you knowledgeable, but I'm glad that it's more expensive than mine since you think that strengthens your argument.

In addition to my years of knowledge on the subject, I have also read nearly every single camera review that dpreview.com has ever posted, which go into detail about distortion, aberration, fringing, high ISO performance, chroma noise, luminance noise, etc. for every single camera, and never have I seen a uniformity problem in a camera sensor that could mimic screen yellowing.

Vignetting? Take the picture from far enough away. Most do. Does it affect color cast? NO.

Fringe? Does it affect screen color cast? NO.

Aberration? NO

Barrel/Pincushion distortion? NO

Viewing angle? Yellowing is present at all angles.

Ambient Light? Makes no difference.

And I could go on and on and on.

Seriously, all you have to do is make sure some part of the screen is white/grey balanced, and the color uniformity issues will become apparent.

Probably the only valid point you've had thus far is that if the person can't see it, they should be happy with their iMac. Frankly, I think these people must be blind with some of the uploads I have seen accompanied with "I don't see the issue", but that's great for them then. That doesn't mean they shouldn't come on here and ask if their iMac has it. What about resale value? They may not successfully resell an iMac with a crappy screen. What if they take up design or some such hobby, and it affects their work because they unknowingly compensate for the yellow cast in some areas?

I think what Btom does here is a good service, and if you have a problem with it you should stop posting in this thread. "Fatally flawed"... Sheesh. You could at least be less dramatic about it.
 
When i did the test, it looked like the bottem left is a bit darker grey then the top left... is that also possible?
 
When i did the test, it looked like the bottem left is a bit darker grey then the top left... is that also possible?

Yes. I it could be caused, or aggravated by:
1. Light falloff outside of the axis of each pixel (each pixel looks darker, when observed at an angle);
2. Similar effect in the camera itself.
The first way to minimize it is to use telelens for testing.

Tom B.
 
imac mid-2010 i7

if i do the test i notice a difference, but during normal use it is not a problem.

I see the difference e.g. when i open iTunes in a full window, the bottom part looks more yellow the the top.

do you know if I can get a rebate on this purchase? to be honest, i don't want to get a replacement, but a rebate would be cool :cool:
 
imac mid-2010 i7

if i do the test i notice a difference, but during normal use it is not a problem.

I see the difference e.g. when i open iTunes in a full window, the bottom part looks more yellow the the top.

do you know if I can get a rebate on this purchase? to be honest, i don't want to get a replacement, but a rebate would be cool :cool:

Talk to the Apple Customer Service, there were multiple reports of excellent service and accommodation of variety of requests.

Tom B.
 
Long rant

Once again, read what I wrote multiple times and will repeat again here, I am not saying the yellow tint issue does not exist or that pictures of it are flawed.

What I am saying is flawed is having some take a picture of a screen, upload it here, and then Tom tells them they also have other color balance issues, and further more tells them how bad they are, when often the levels he is talking about are less than the human eye can even detect.
 
Once again, read what I wrote multiple times and will repeat again here, I am not saying the yellow tint issue does not exist or that pictures of it are flawed.

What I am saying is flawed is having some take a picture of a screen, upload it here, and then Tom tells them they also have other color balance issues, and further more tells them how bad they are, when often the levels he is talking about are less than the human eye can even detect.

I'd have to agree with this. I uploaded my pic, but didn't understand anything that Tom said (sorry). What I did see with my own eyes is that the picture shows that my screen is much worse that it actually is, and that my eyes can only detect the yellow when I have the yellow tint test page up, extended to the corners of my screen. In reality - I would work on a white background for maybe 10% of my computer time at most (forums). I kept having to look for these imperfections - and in that, I just chalked it up to me being stupid looking for problems when really, the imac is good.
 
Once again, read what I wrote multiple times and will repeat again here, I am not saying the yellow tint issue does not exist or that pictures of it are flawed.

What I am saying is flawed is having some take a picture of a screen, upload it here, and then Tom tells them they also have other color balance issues, and further more tells them how bad they are, when often the levels he is talking about are less than the human eye can even detect.

How about you read. Never claimed you were denying the yellowing issue.

However, I'll note that you go on and on about Btom mentioning "blue fringes" which I'm pretty sure is made up, as I've only seen him refer to "blue deficiency", which you probably don't know means YELLOW. He of course does mention other colors in terms of +/- % ... (Read at the very bottom of this post, so I can again explain to you why you're still not right.)

Also, please point out where he "tells them they also have other color balance issues" and I'll give you a cookie. This thread is about inconsistency in color, mainly BLUE/YELLOW and "color balance issues" sure seems like you're saying he's measuring and reporting the color temperature of the screens, which he is not, and could not since he was not there in person with a professional colorimeter.

I'd have to agree with this. I uploaded my pic, but didn't understand anything that Tom said (sorry). What I did see with my own eyes is that the picture shows that my screen is much worse that it actually is, and that my eyes can only detect the yellow when I have the yellow tint test page up, extended to the corners of my screen.

There are many more people I have seen say theirs looks worse in person than it does on the photos. Mine is clearly noticeable right now, especially at the corner of this browser (MacRumors really seems to set it off with its lovely beige-y-ness).

Also, unless you may be cross-eyed, your eyes can't look at both corners at the same time. Take your web browser and stick it in the upper left corner. Now click the title bar with the cursor, and follow diagonally toward the bottom right corner, looking at the grey temperature of the title bar near the cursor. Mine goes from very cool in temperature to very very warm. It's actually quite jolting.


.... Now back to this argument:

...blue is varying by a good 10% in respect to green and red (left side is ~+7% blue, right bottom is ~-4% blue)

So, to those uninformed like pjcforpres2020 ... this is a sound analysis by Btom. Assuming that it's a large pixel average sampling (e.g. 101 by 101 px), which I'm sure he would do, this eliminates the possibility of chroma noise interference. And, no matter what you say pjc, cameras simply do not exhibit noticeable color gradients on their image sensor. There are of course luminance issues due to lens distortion, but not chroma.

Now to his analysis. He states that while red and green are nearly unchanging across corners/sides, blue varies a whopping 10%-11%. This is completely independent of any white balance as the blue will still vary to those degrees in respect to red and green.

The ONE issue that could affect these numbers is over-saturation via the camera software. However, it accentuates the problem... It doesn't create it. The only way you will get blue to change by 0% (or, as much as Red/Green vary) is if you make it grayscale so the problem has to be there no matter what. And as I've said many times now, most cameras will in fact MASK the problem with high ISO settings causing a large drop in color response/accuracy in the sensor.

So unless every single camera has some kind of blue-to-yellow gradient defect, I don't see how you can claim that these pictures are worthless in analyzing the yellowing issue. In the off-chance someone ever does have a defective camera and posts an image, which has not happened, I would certainly notice it's "not right" as would Btom most likely. The chance of it even being a Blue/Yellow defect is about 50%, it could also be a Magenta/Green defect.

Anyway, I'm not going to waste my time explaining this on an intellectual level any further with somebody who is either not willing or not smart enough to comprehend.

As for:

...when often the levels he is talking about are less than the human eye can even detect.

Could I have proof please? I bet a human eye without color blindness or some other defect would notice the blue +/- within only a few percent. Not to mention 10% or 12% like some of these screens may display. Then factor in a lot of "the display looks worse than this in real life" and a few "this image accentuates the issue" and you really can't claim that these percentage points aren't noticeable to the human eye, especially since there are dozens of eyes in this thread who have.... noticed the problem.
 
I just got a new base i3 21.5-inch iMac and the screen is SO yellow! Dried piss all over the panel...what a joke that Apple is selling machines like this.

Taking it back tomorrow and trying another one.

Using a 13" MBP in front of it right now...the difference in the shades of white is unbelievable.
 
.....
Now to his analysis. He states that while red and green are nearly unchanging across corners/sides, blue varies a whopping 10%-11%. This is completely independent of any white balance as the blue will still vary to those degrees in respect to red and green.

......

The rough description of the method was in one of my previous posts:

I do it with the Photoshop and the Info and Eyedropper tools. Mind you it is all not an exact science and all three components (RGB) vary from place to place, sometimes wildly. Sometimes you have to increase contrast to notice the problem areas and then sample the original in and around these places.

To give an example, if the grey on top of the screen is RGB=141,139,142, and at the bottom of the screen is RGB=139,140,133 I'd call it ~6% blue missing. RGB numbers vary quite a lot from place to place so my ~6% means really somewhere between 4 and 9. The test is also affected by the quality of the camera, but this are (usually) of better quality, than the iMac screen.

Hope it helps.

Tom B.

I am using 5x5 pixel sample size (the largest standard averaging area coming with my Photoshop), but I am also moving color picker around the area to see variation of the RGB numbers and pick up what I think is the best estimate for the area. Hope this helps.

Tom B.
 
I just got a new base i3 21.5-inch iMac and the screen is SO yellow! Dried piss all over the panel...what a joke that Apple is selling machines like this.

Taking it back tomorrow and trying another one.

Using a 13" MBP in front of it right now...the difference in the shades of white is unbelievable.

Are you sure it is ALL OVER the panel? Maybe you should simply adjust white temperature of the screen?

The problem is when one area of the screen is more yellow, than the other and it bugs you.

Tom B.
 
Are you sure it is ALL OVER the panel? Maybe you should simply adjust white temperature of the screen?

The problem is when one area of the screen is more yellow, than the other and it bugs you.

Tom B.

Yep its definitely a lot more spread. I actually have another 21.5' base 2009 iMac to compare this 2010 one with. This one's yellow is HELLA spread around...but seems to be more prominent in the corners. When you use your eyes to track an iChat window for instance, it goes from a semi-yellow white to a full on yellow. Its like this one has blotches of yellow everywhere whereas the other one has a SLIGHT amount at the bottom.
 
This is a mid (wk 31) 2010 i7 27". This is my fourth, and definitely the best I have received so far. The picture was taken at half brightness, which is the setting I normally use the computer at.
I gave up after my third iMac in April and decided to try a MBP, but it's logic board died last weekend, and they offered me another iMac, seeing as that's what I wanted originally, and gave me a top of the line model and free AppleCare, so I couldn't resist :D (you can read my thrilling saga here https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/999231/)
What do you guys think? I still notice it during day to day use, and I've seen perfect screens, so I know they exist, but I don't want to end up with something that's worse.
 

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This is a mid (wk 31) 2010 i7 27". This is my fourth, and definitely the best I have received so far. The picture was taken at half brightness, which is the setting I normally use the computer at.
I gave up after my third iMac in April and decided to try a MBP, but it's logic board died last weekend, and they offered me another iMac, seeing as that's what I wanted originally, and gave me a top of the line model and free AppleCare, so I couldn't resist :D (you can read my thrilling saga here https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/999231/)
What do you guys think? I still notice it during day to day use, and I've seen perfect screens, so I know they exist, but I don't want to end up with something that's worse.

I had a look at the picture and it shows a progressive warming when moving down the screen (wedge rather, than a yellow "band"), due to up to 3% blue deficiency at the very bottom (and up to 4% in the bottom corners). Also left side of the screen is ~1.5% more green, than right.
I'd say overall not too bad and pretty uniform as iMac screens go.

Tom B.
 
I had a look at the picture and it shows a progressive warming when moving down the screen (wedge rather, than a yellow "band"), due to up to 3% blue deficiency at the very bottom (and up to 4% in the bottom corners). Also left side of the screen is ~1.5% more green, than right.
I'd say overall not too bad and pretty uniform as iMac screens go.

Tom B.

Sounds like you have a degree majoring in Yellow-tinge :D
 
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