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3.33GHz Xeon (Server CPU) Transplant in a 2009 Quad

i7's have a higher voltage rating.... Not because they take more power.. But because they are unlocked and over clocking is encouraged.

And for the Schmuck @ Apple saying I'm lying about my '09 MP not having sleep issues?? HAHAAH Dream on!! Perhaps he should have taken the advice from here about resetting the SMC... If sleep didn't work - the CPU would have been sent back.

Anyone remember the "Turbo" button on the original PC/XT? It over clocked the CPU... LOL... And yes I've been pushing silicon to it's limits for that long...

AppleWorking said:
New post over @ apple.

"I just wanted to report that we have not had any sleep issues in all five machines since returning them to the stock CPUS. I contacted another company that tried this, he started seeing sleep issues after a couple weeks. Says tried everything humanly possible but only fix was going back to the stock CPU. It looks like the Xeon is the only stable alternative. Some on MR report success with the 975, personally I don't believe um, too quick to defend their investment. Will try Xeons next... If you don't hear back from me just assume success, will try and post, but very busy."​

Does anyone think the VID Voltage Range has something to do with it? The Xeon has a different range from the i7.

Xeon = 0.800V-1.225V

i7 = 0.800V-1.375V

Could this explain why some with the i7 have success and others don't?

BTW Xeon is running perfectly, just wish we could help some of those with the i7s.

Edit: I just thought of this... What if no ECC support on the Core i7 has something to do with it? If OSX is checking for ECC functionality, wouldn't it explain why some have the problem and some don't? Seeing that we are using different memory from different sources?

Who knows, at this point I would say get an Xeon, it's more of a sure fire, no hassle, upgrade. Not worth the headache just to save a few bucks. It just works.
Click to expand...
 
I can't find a Xenon quad 3.33 here (CDN) so far..newegg us has them but newegg ca. doesn't and can't get them either...didn't see any on the e site either..I'd possibly go for the Xenon if I could..
 
Msbeezy said:
I can't find a Xenon quad 3.33 here (CDN) so far..newegg us has them but newegg ca. doesn't and can't get them either...didn't see any on the e site either..I'd possibly go for the Xenon if I could..
Click to expand...
Too bad you weren't around when I started this thread. I had a second retail (the unopened box in the pictures actually) that I let go for $950 with shipping and insurance. I don't think you'll be able to find one for that price right now, but if you wait awhile I would think the prices will come down? If I hear of a good deal on one I'll send you a pm. :)
 
AppleWorking said:
Too bad you weren't around when I started this thread. I had a second retail (the unopened box in the pictures actually) that I let go for $950 with shipping and insurance. I don't think you'll be able to find one for that price right now, but if you wait awhile I would think the prices will come down? If I hear of a good deal on one I'll send you a pm. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks !. I did find 2 on the big e for about $1220 cdn plus shipping and ins etc..then duty and 5% tax..yuk
 
handheldgames said:
i7's have a higher voltage rating.... Not because they take more power.. But because they are unlocked and over clocking is encouraged.

And for the Schmuck @ Apple saying I'm lying about my '09 MP not having sleep issues?? HAHAAH Dream on!! Perhaps he should have taken the advice from here about resetting the SMC... If sleep didn't work - the CPU would have been sent back.

Anyone remember the "Turbo" button on the original PC/XT? It over clocked the CPU... LOL... And yes I've been pushing silicon to it's limits for that long...
Click to expand...

Are you talking about the guy who posted in the forums saying that Core i7 owners are "the first to defend their investment" or something like that? How funny. Look, if I thought my Core i7 was causing erratic system behavior I would be the first to plunk down for a Xeon replacement. But, I am not having any wake from sleep issues. The fact that other Mac Pro and MacBook Pro owners are having wake from sleep issues since the upgrade to SL makes me suspect SL, not the CPU.

By the way, I looked at one of my crash logs and it looks like Apple's SecurityAgent was the culprit in causing the kernel panic that gave me my initial wake from sleep freezes. I still have occasional issues while logging out, always caused by the same SecurityAgent task that is crashing. I never had this happen under Leopard, so something is going on that is specific to Snow Leopard. Others who don't have Core i7s are also suffering from the same issues.

So are you saying that at 3.32 GHz, the 975 Extreme is not necessarily pulling more voltage given the difference in voltage specifications listed earlier? Rather, it is rated to a higher voltage to allow more headroom for overclocking? I thought the Xeons were more "overclockable" (is that a word?) than even the Core i7s, so wouldn't they have a similar voltage rating? I'm trying to help get to the bottom of this issue, I think it's premature to say that it's due to the Core i7 since I'm not having that problem and the issue only presented itself upon upgrading to Snow Leopard.
 
The lower the RATED voltage on a chip is the better the chip is.

IE, it will run at stock speeds with a lower voltage compared to others.

Eg, i've had two E6600s, one with a VID of 1.45 and one of 1.4. The 1.4 did 300mhz more using .05V less.

It could very well be these people with i7s have a VID higher than the mobo is allowed to give which causes issues at wake.

However Im more interested in if the new 32nm 6 core chips with work. Intel says X58 will need a BIOS update so lets see if apple will oblige...
 
Concorde Rules said:
The lower the RATED voltage on a chip is the better the chip is.
Click to expand...
Lower VID's can also allow for less power to be consumed for that clock as well. :)

Concorde Rules said:
It could very well be these people with i7s have a VID higher than the mobo is allowed to give which causes issues at wake.
Click to expand...
This is possible.

But I was under the impression that the i7's did wake with Leopard, and if that was the case, it's not the voltage regulators on the board. Therefore the question of SL as the culprit has some validity, and needs to be resolved.

Any response/detailed information on this could help clear this up. ;)

Concorde Rules said:
However Im more interested in if the new 32nm 6 core chips with work. Intel says X58 will need a BIOS update so lets see if apple will oblige...
Click to expand...
Technically, the boards should work, so long as the board maker didn't deviate from the Intel Design Guidelines on the Voltage Regulators. But it would require a firmware update for the new CPU microcode.

Unfortunately, Apple's history demonstrates one thing here. They don't do after-sale support very well, particularly with firmware. The '06 -'07 owners are stuck with EFI32 code, and it could easily be changed to EFI64. They haven't done this so far, and there's absolutely no indication that they will either. :(
 
I've been putting my Quad Core i7 into sleep a lot the last few days to see if there is any validity to my Core i7 causing wake from sleep issues. I have not experienced any wake from sleep issues since resetting SMC, getting rid of SMC Fan Control software, eliminating legacy preference panes, deleting problem/corrupt fonts, resetting PRAM/NVRAM, and running fsck -f.

I still have the following non-Apple kernel extensions installed, anyone know if these are known to pose issues with Snow Leopard?

44 0 0x1658000 0xa000 0x9000 com.highpoint-tech.kext.HighPointIOP (2.0.1) <43 14 5 4 3>
113 0 0x907d2000 0xd3000 0xd2000 com.vmware.kext.vmx86 (2.0.5) <11 5 4 3 1>
114 0 0x90784000 0xb000 0xa000 com.vmware.kext.vmci (2.0.5) <5 4 3 1>
115 0 0x908a5000 0x6000 0x5000 com.vmware.kext.vmioplug (2.0.5) <32 29 5 4 3>
116 0 0x90901000 0x9000 0x8000 com.vmware.kext.vmnet (2.0.5) <11 5 4 3 1>

There are reports of some third-party RAID cards causing wake from sleep issues, so I am a little suspicious of the com.highpoint-tech.kext.HighPointIOP kernel extension. However, I cannot find any issues with HighPoint RAID cards and Snow Leopard. I would probably hold on this issue until we see other Mac Pro, iMac, and MacBook Pro users' wake from sleep issues resolved with a solution or software update.

handheldgames, how is your wake from sleep behavior?
 
For the record I have not had another WFS issue since the swap back to stock CPU with probably 20-30 wakes..:)
 
AZREOSpecialist said:
I've been putting my Quad Core i7 into sleep a lot the last few days to see if there is any validity to my Core i7 causing wake from sleep issues. I have not experienced any wake from sleep issues since resetting SMC, getting rid of SMC Fan Control software, eliminating legacy preference panes, deleting problem/corrupt fonts, resetting PRAM/NVRAM, and running fsck -f.

I still have the following non-Apple kernel extensions installed, anyone know if these are known to pose issues with Snow Leopard?

44 0 0x1658000 0xa000 0x9000 com.highpoint-tech.kext.HighPointIOP (2.0.1) <43 14 5 4 3>
113 0 0x907d2000 0xd3000 0xd2000 com.vmware.kext.vmx86 (2.0.5) <11 5 4 3 1>
114 0 0x90784000 0xb000 0xa000 com.vmware.kext.vmci (2.0.5) <5 4 3 1>
115 0 0x908a5000 0x6000 0x5000 com.vmware.kext.vmioplug (2.0.5) <32 29 5 4 3>
116 0 0x90901000 0x9000 0x8000 com.vmware.kext.vmnet (2.0.5) <11 5 4 3 1>
Click to expand...
I take it then, that you're still using Leopard, just to clarify?

AZREOSpecialist said:
There are reports of some third-party RAID cards causing wake from sleep issues, so I am a little suspicious of the com.highpoint-tech.kext.HighPointIOP kernel extension. However, I cannot find any issues with HighPoint RAID cards and Snow Leopard. I would probably hold on this issue until we see other Mac Pro, iMac, and MacBook Pro users' wake from sleep issues resolved with a solution or software update.

handheldgames, how is your wake from sleep behavior?
Click to expand...
A system shouldn't even be able to sleep with a RAID card, as the disks are under the controll of the card, not the OS. So they can't spin down, unless the card has a MAID function, and it has to be set in the card's firmware settings.

Simply put, they never sleep if this is missing or disabled. BTW, setting the MAID functions actually stresses the drives more, if it happens often, and is why most cards have it set as Disabled by default. ;)
 
nanofrog said:
I take it then, that you're still using Leopard, just to clarify?


A system shouldn't even be able to sleep with a RAID card, as the disks are under the controll of the card, not the OS. So they can't spin down, unless the card has a MAID function, and it has to be set in the card's firmware settings.

Simply put, they never sleep if this is missing or disabled. BTW, setting the MAID functions actually stresses the drives more, if it happens often, and is why most cards have it set as Disabled by default. ;)
Click to expand...

I'm running Snow Leopard. The RocketRaid 4320 does support sleep mode on the Mac. The drives spin down and then spin back up as needed. Again, once I followed the procedures in my previous post I haven't had any wake from sleep issues on Snow Leopard. From what I see on the Apple support forums, Snow Leopard is causing sleep issues for some folks.
 
AZREOSpecialist said:
I'm running Snow Leopard. The RocketRaid 4320 does support sleep mode on the Mac. The drives spin down and then spin back up as needed. Again, once I followed the procedures in my previous post I haven't had any wake from sleep issues on Snow Leopard. From what I see on the Apple support forums, Snow Leopard is causing sleep issues for some folks.
Click to expand...
:cool: You're not having issues with SL. So it looks like the voltages are the case with some chips (variances).

Was the sleep settings by default, or did you have to make changes to the settings?

I usually have to set it up, but typically don't, due to wear and tear (too many spin up cycles for me as is; Areca BTW, who makes the RR43xx models). If the system is to be down awhile, I just shut it down.
 
Msbeezy said:
For the record I have not had another WFS issue since the swap back to stock CPU with probably 20-30 wakes..:)
Click to expand...

Neither have I. :cool: Did you ever try to resent your SMC before you called it quits? I haven't shut my machine down or restarted it since I did the install and SMC reset... I think that was on Tuesday... Gotta love a mac!
 
handheldgames said:
Neither have I. :cool: Did you ever try to resent your SMC before you called it quits? I haven't shut my machine down or restarted it since I did the install and SMC reset... I think that was on Tuesday... Gotta love a mac!
Click to expand...

Honestly no I didn't..I was running lean on my return time and had to pull it..even if it would have resolved the wake issue I was less than happy with the gain/$. Somewhat over optimistic ? possibly...but there's plenty of time to secure a Xeon or even wait to see what the future brings in say six months.. (6 core?)
 
Msbeezy said:
Honestly no I didn't..I was running lean on my return time and had to pull it..even if it would have resolved the wake issue I was less than happy with the gain/$. Somewhat over optimistic ? possibly...but there's plenty of time to secure a Xeon or even wait to see what the future brings in say six months.. (6 core?)
Click to expand...
I wouldn't expect an improvement in cost/performance on the Gulftown models. :(
 
Msbeezy said:
Honestly no I didn't..I was running lean on my return time and had to pull it..even if it would have resolved the wake issue I was less than happy with the gain/$. Somewhat over optimistic ? possibly...but there's plenty of time to secure a Xeon or even wait to see what the future brings in say six months.. (6 core?)
Click to expand...

I have to say, msbeezy, that you caused a tempest in a teapot. You indicated on the Apple support forums as well as here that you were getting bad performance with your Core i7 975 upgrade and also that it was causing wake from sleep issues. Now we find out, after subsequent inquiries, that the performance was exactly as expected but just not worth the money in your mind. Now we find out that you didn't even take any steps to resolve your wake from sleep issues. Were you aware that by unplugging your Mac Pro for more than 30 seconds you automatically reset the SMC? You have to unplug the Mac Pro to swap your CPUs, and doing so also reset your SMC. So as far as anyone knows, it was your SMC that was the issue and not the Core i7 975.

Can you please try to post more accurate information before proclaiming that your CPU replacement was the source of all these "issues"? It is very clear now that the Core i7 975 may have had nothing to do with your sleep issues and also was performing just as expected.
 
AZREOSpecialist said:
Were you aware that by unplugging your Mac Pro for more than 30 seconds you automatically reset the SMC? You have to unplug the Mac Pro to swap your CPUs, and doing so also reset your SMC. So as far as anyone knows, it was your SMC that was the issue and not the Core i7 975.
Click to expand...

I noticed that, but didn't want to point it out. In other words, he did what he should have done and it still didn't work for him.
 
The guy posted again over @ apple:

"CPUS changed to Xeon W3580s, all five MacPros now work. Three that we own for company use, and two set up for a client. Resetting the SMC does not make a difference, either way computers will post and boot correctly."​

Looks like resetting the SMC doesn't even matter. Boggles the mind why Core i7 975s will work in some MPs and not others. So far the Xeon W3580 appears to be the sure fire drop-in. Glad I went that route...
 
AppleWorking said:
I noticed that, but didn't want to point it out. In other words, he did what he should have done and it still didn't work for him.
Click to expand...

No, he didn't reset the SMC until AFTER he put the original CPU back in by virtue of leaving the unit unplugged. It appears the SMC was reset at the same time the original CPU was put back in, but not before when the Core i7 was in the machine. I still don't believe we have enough information to proclaim the Core i7 975 at fault for sleep issues, especially since there are two of us here who do not have sleep issues and plenty of other Mac Pro and iMac owners who do have sleep issues under Snow Leopard. If I do see any issues that would relate directly to the Core i7 975, I will be the first to replace it with a Xeon part. I just don't think that is a valid conclusion at this point. However, I agree that using a Xeon part probably has the least amount of risk associated with it.
 
AZREOSpecialist said:
No, he didn't reset the SMC until AFTER he put the original CPU back in by virtue of leaving the unit unplugged. It appears the SMC was reset at the same time the original CPU was put back in, but not before when the Core i7 was in the machine.
Click to expand...
So you wouldn't think that he unplugged the unit while installing the i7 and then plugged it in again to boot it. Seems to me he would do this during each CPU exchange, thus resetting the SMC @ each exchange. So you are saying that he needs to boot with the i7 first and then perform the SMC reset after? Not trying to argue with you, just trying to get to the bottom of it. :)

As for me, I always leave it plugged in (not powered) to ground myself with a strap. After I dropped in the Xeon I unplugged it to reset the SMC before booting. Then I zapped the pram before it even hit the desktop. If I did this incorrectly then I am another who did not reset the SMC and everything works as it should.
 
It would appear from what msbeezy said (scroll back) that he/she did not reset the SMC when the Core i7 975 was in the machine. It was also stated that everything worked as it should once the original CPU was put back into the unit. It's fair to assume that when the original CPU was put back into the unit, the computer was unplugged for at least 30 seconds, hence my statement that the SMC was automatically reset when the original CPU was re-installed. Perhaps msbeezy can clear this up. I'm just trying to figure out the order of things so that we can determine what did or did not happen.

In my case, I installed the Core i7 975 while running Leopard. No sleep issues. I then installed Snow Leopard and immediately started having erratic wake-from-sleep behavior. In my attempt to solve the sleep problems, I followed various instructions posted on Apple support forums:

  • Reset SMC on motherboard
  • Reset PRAM/NVRAM
  • Run fsck -f
  • Repair permissions
  • Remove legacy preference panes
  • Remove legacy contextual menu items
  • Remove damaged or problem fonts as diagnosed by FontBook
It may just be a coincidence that the above items solved my sleep issues, or it may still be due to my Core i7 975. I don't really know. But performing the above steps appears to have solved my problems for now. I am only asking msbeezy to clarify because in a previous post he/she stated that they DID NOT reset SMC after experiencing sleep issues with the Core i7. I am merely pointing out that during the chip swap, the SMC would already be reset by virtue of the power being disconnected. This makes it impossible to rule out that a simple reset of the SMC would not have solved msbeezy's issues even with the Core i7 installed.

msbeezy, I'm curious -- were you running Snow Leopard or Leopard when you installed your Core i7? I'm trying to analyze this because if my Core i7 is going to potentially cause problems, I will gladly switch it out for a Xeon part. But it only makes sense to do so if we can truly isolate the Core i7 as the problem.
 
Ooookay. You are assuming that he unplugged the computer when the 2.66 was reinstalled and that he didn't know he reset the SMC simultaneously. In other words, you are saying he was not aware of resetting the SMC by unpluging the unit during the reinstall of the 2.66.

AZREOSpecialist said:
Were you aware that by unplugging your Mac Pro for more than 30 seconds you automatically reset the SMC? You have to unplug the Mac Pro to swap your CPUs, and doing so also reset your SMC.
Click to expand...

AZREOSpecialist said:
It's fair to assume that when the original CPU was put back into the unit, the computer was unplugged for at least 30 seconds, hence my statement that the SMC was automatically reset when the original CPU was re-installed.
Click to expand...

And yet because he said he didn't reset the SMC when installing the i7, he would now be fully aware that unplugging the machine resets the SMC? lol :D

And according to you...

AZREOSpecialist said:
You have to unplug the Mac Pro to swap your CPUs...
Click to expand...



Plus somewhat blaming him for his interpretation (which so far appears legitimate) is not going to help any.

AZREOSpecialist said:
I have to say, msbeezy, that you caused a tempest in a teapot. You indicated on the Apple support forums as well as here that you were getting bad performance with your Core i7 975 upgrade and also that it was causing wake from sleep issues. Now we find out, after subsequent inquiries, that the performance was exactly as expected but just not worth the money in your mind. Now we find out that you didn't even take any steps to resolve your wake from sleep issues. Were you aware that by unplugging your Mac Pro for more than 30 seconds you automatically reset the SMC? You have to unplug the Mac Pro to swap your CPUs, and doing so also reset your SMC. So as far as anyone knows, it was your SMC that was the issue and not the Core i7 975.

Can you please try to post more accurate information before proclaiming that your CPU replacement was the source of all these "issues"? It is very clear now that the Core i7 975 may have had nothing to do with your sleep issues and also was performing just as expected.
Click to expand...



Let's just let him answer, sounds like you're stretching for something and truthfully I don't blame you. I understand you must feel frustrated. Bottom line though, it appears resetting the SMC is much ado about nothing according to the poster @ apple.




.
 
I'm not frustrated, maybe just a little A-D-D! :) I want to help as much as possible in getting to the bottom of these sleep issues people are having.
 
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