3d Interfaces for Leopard?

[inkswamp]

i think apple is going to implement their equivalent of compiz or beryl. that stuff on linux is pretty cool, but is a pain in the butt to implement. those are some cool features that i bet they are going to implement in leopard. 3D desktops are going to be just the beginning.

Everything that is useful about compiz and beryl (from what I've seen--updating windows in dock, growing icons, expose-like features, animated windows and app launching, overlaid app switcher) is already in Tiger and much of it was in Jaguar and Panther too. Even some of the useless compiz and beryl stuff (rotating screen cubes, running a screensaver in the background, transparency, morphing UI elements, elements fading-in and out etc.) are old-hat on OS X.

But really... are you suggesting that Apple's big secret feature that they've kept us all on the edge of our seats over is windows that wiggle when you drag 'em?

 

[jakemikey]

Whaa?? Linux isn't #1 just because ...

Don't get your panties in a bunch. As I explained previously, my ranking was based on who had it first. I wasn't making any commentary about who has the best implementation. Look at the language of my post. It's right there.

 

[inkswamp]

Don't get your panties in a bunch. As I explained previously, my ranking was based on who had it first. I wasn't making any commentary about who has the best implementation. Look at the language of my post. It's right there.

I understood exactly what you meant, and I was pulling back and showing you the big picture. I think a lot of the Linux 3D interface stuff I've seen is neat but ultimately useless, thus I don't agree with the conclusion that Apple is losing its edge just because they aren't first to the finish line with this stuff. Sometimes having an edge is knowing what to leave out, not what to implement. A lot of what I like about Apple is its ability to unclutter the interface--they know what to leave out and I would consider that to be their edge over MS in many cases when it comes to UI.

 

[Infrared]

Nicely spotted 'Coreweb', this could be what Leopard drop down menus look like. I hope it is cause I don't like Aqua myself:



Current OS X drop down;..........................................iPhone drop down (possibly in Leopard);

....................

Much simpler and sleeker looking IMO.

Now that looks very nice. The blue one is far too distracting. Such things
are meant to aid looking at the content, not compete for attention with it.

Grey can work, but it's a bit difficult to pull it off. The ideal - for me at
least - is sober, refined, but not dull and lifeless. (If these are the criteria
iTunes 7 is a failure - a horrid clashing mish-mash of dull control buttons
and magenta scrollbars etc. Please, Apple, nothing like that for Leopard.)

The grey drop down menu in your image looks great, and is easy to find
without sticking out too much. It is raised just the right amount.

I have noticed (probably mentioned before), that the Apple store changed
its tab colours a little while ago from blue to grey. Here's what they used
to look like:

If we're going to be really speculative, we might say that Apple are
throwing these things on their website to subtly shift the mindset of
mac-heads to the new scheme without just coming out and saying
"this is exactly what Leopard will look like". A leap too far?

Cheers,

Inf.

 

[jakemikey]

Sometimes having an edge is knowing what to leave out, not what to implement.

Crikey, that's the kind of spin that'd make you a perfect candidate for Apple's PR department. So, you mean like "leaving out" a second mouse button and scroll wheel for ages made Apple edgier? Or "leaving out" 1080p on the AppleTV?

 

[ToddW]

Everything that is useful about compiz and beryl (from what I've seen--updating windows in dock, growing icons, expose-like features, animated windows and app launching, overlaid app switcher) is already in Tiger and much of it was in Jaguar and Panther too. Even some of the useless compiz and beryl stuff (rotating screen cubes, running a screensaver in the background, transparency, morphing UI elements, elements fading-in and out etc.) are old-hat on OS X.

But really... are you suggesting that Apple's big secret feature that they've kept us all on the edge of our seats over is windows that wiggle when you drag 'em?

what i'm saying are features like that kind of like an expose^3 or something like that, but better. if they are working on UI elements that are based on core image stuff that is the only thing that i can think of. no reason for you to be a d!ck about my humble little opinion. if you don't like it then p!ss off!

 

[inkswamp]

Crikey, that's the kind of spin that'd make you a perfect candidate for Apple's PR department. So, you mean like "leaving out" a second mouse button and scroll wheel for ages made Apple edgier? Or "leaving out" 1080p on the AppleTV?

You're citing things that Apple missed the boat on that clearly and demonstrably have/had use for the average user, whereas 3D effects are mostly useless eye candy. What I see in beryl and compiz are wiggling and spinning windows and a fondness for transparency that ought to be illegal. I still don't get how that means Apple is losing their edge.

And you can say whatever you want about me personally, but it doesn't change the fact that not overdoing it is a good thing. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Apple has shown just about the right amount of self-indulgence and restraint with the whizzy UI effects. I hope they continue to do so. That's good design and that's where they continue to hold a significant lead on Windows and Linux.

 

[cgc]

A 3-D interface seems like such a waste of resources. There's gotta be a better way to organize and find information. 3-D seems hot cuz it's new and cool but I'd bet it won't be implemented and, if it were, it'd be useless.

 

[Geek 2.0]

yeh. but vista = tiger, when was tiger out again? o yeh BEFORE VISTA.
leopard is the next gen! microsoft are just laggining behind.

vista < tiger
tiger < leopard
leopard = something worth money
therefore

vista ≠ something worth money
vista is worth monkeypoop

 

[Highland]

I beg to differ. While VLC was probably a bad example, what about Adobe? They've been working closely with Apple getting CS3 ready for Leopard. I would bet my bottom dollar they have a more advanced build than what the developers have. They would also know the UI scheme. With a suite of applications as CS3 is to pros (and pro hardware sales for Apple), Adobe has more of a clue of what's going on than the rest of us, that's for damn sure.

Think about this: Almost all Apple employees didn't know about the Intel changeover (including Apple devs at WWDC). Everything at Apple is on a need to know basis.

I don't see UI changes in any of the upcoming Adobe apps as a hint at Leopard UI changes, nor do I think Adobe would care about making their apps look like Leopard... they're all cross platform, and past versions have demonstrated that they treat their UI as cross platform.

Also, I don't think for a second that the CS3 team are privy to any 10.5 UI changes. If they were, we'd have seen leaked info on the net.

you and everybody else here has no idea what (if any!) UI changes are coming in Leopard!

Yes. Myself included.

 

[surferfromuk]

Think about this: Almost all Apple employees didn't know about the Intel changeover (including Apple devs at WWDC). Everything at Apple is on a need to know basis.

mmmh..Steve is very adept at squirreling away secret 'elite' coding teams for special projects.

That's the bottom line though really isn't it - if it were any other CEO we'd thing ' ahh balls - 10.5 is really just about all your seeing on Apple's website there maybe a few trinkets but don't get worked up over this' but with Steve Jobs at the helm you really just never know what this guy is going to pull from the hat. I guess this is what makes him the most dangerous CEO out there...

 

[Highland]

As dangerous as a Liger...

 

[mac17]

if there is a 3d interface do you think the current macbooks could handle it? if not ill be verry pissed i think id have to buy a new one that could!

 

[inkswamp]

if there is a 3d interface do you think the current macbooks could handle it? if not ill be verry pissed i think id have to buy a new one that could!

I imagine if there's any truth to this rumor (and I sort of doubt it) it will degrade gracefully for older machines--like the way Dashboard will omit the ripple effect on old machines.

 

[CoreWeb]

99% of beginners on macs do not know how to install/uninstall an app.
Im still hoping for compiz/beryl in leopard(xgl etc)
its not like they dont have access to the source code,

Actually, Apple would most likely not need the source code. Core Animation would make a lot of it pretty simple, depending on how organized their windowing code structure is.

Crikey, that's the kind of spin that'd make you a perfect candidate for Apple's PR department. So, you mean like "leaving out" a second mouse button and scroll wheel for ages made Apple edgier? Or "leaving out" 1080p on the AppleTV?

I think he meant leaving out something like 3-D window switching like in Aero, as it is too cumbersome, and instead using Exposé.

what i'm saying are features like that kind of like an expose^3 or something like that, but better. if they are working on UI elements that are based on core image stuff that is the only thing that i can think of. no reason for you to be a d!ck about my humble little opinion. if you don't like it then p!ss off!

Hasn't Expose turned in to an entire application in Leopard? Could this hint to possible upgrades?

 

[povman]

You crazy people, noone in their right mind would implement a GUI that looked like a first-person shooter. And, unless they invent a touchpad replacement for the mouse, I don't think they'll implement a multi-touch interface.

My vision for the new Finder is something akin to Quicksilver, but with a more mouse-friendly interface (for everyone else!). That would be so much better than the current finder, or any other file manager.

 

[antonwalker]

I wish apple never said anything about its ucomming products unless they give an official release date. Gosh I think Apple will have to update the looks cuz most people went to vista for looks. So maybe we will get more crossovers. Cause the UI is b-e-a-utiful.

 

[spotlight07]

Since we're dreaming up interfaces, here's what I'm hoping for...I hope I'm not too far off. Smart folders and Spotlight connected to coverflow that has large preview images/videos in realtime. Imagine a black screen that looks like frontrow with a spotlight textbox and smart folders on the side and being able to browse your documents at near fullscreen with coverflow. The coverflow dynamically changes with every click/keystroke. I also think the core animation grid view is really cool too and could be used for the finder: files could automatically reorder themselves with slick animation based on changes to filename, meta data or sortation. I wish MS hadn't "borrowed" the black interface from frontrow because I'm afraid that some windows users will think that it was a copy from vista instead of the truth. I do think that if Apple used blue glow on a black background similar to the the Apple TV on the front page of apple.com, that would be slick for an "Illuminous" interface. I think front row could be carefully integrated into the whole Mac OS with Leopard and it would be functional. I'm not basing any of this on fact, just my opinion based on what I've seen and read.

 

[SheriffParker]

Yes i think this is the end of the jelly beans and all this childishjelly stuff. Ive had enough of these stupid blue scroll bars. bring on the grey

You can already have grey in Tiger.

System Preferences - Appearance - change blue to graphite. My mac has been jelly belly blue free for months now!

 

[MacAficionado]

Remember the Piles interface?

Piles Patent

YouTube Video

 

[Evangelion]

The eastern tank campaign was only won by the Russians at the end because of 3 main factors:

- sheer number of tanks as per the lend-lease programs;

The number of tanks provided by L-L wasn't that big (around 7.000. Russians built over 57.000 T-34's alone), and the tanks they got through L-L weren't that good. The tank that saved the Russians was the T-34, and they built A LOT of those. The other things that contributed to their defeat was Stalingrad (losing 30% of your entire army in one battle is not a good thing. After Stalingrad it was practically impossible for Germany to win) and the fact that Germans were not prepared for a long war.

- new Josef Stalin tank with improved armor;

IS-1 never saw action, it was IS-2 (and later models) that served in the Red Army. And IS-2 saw combat for the first time in spring 1944. And by that time Germanys fate was already sealed.

As to Tiger.... It's a fine tank for sure. But we need to look at the big picture. If we look at individual tanks and it's specs, then it's either Königstiger or Jagdtiger that is the best tank of the world, specswise. But we can't do that. If we look at the big picture, the best German tank of the war was either Panzer IV or Panther.

 

[surferfromuk]

Seems to me Apple should include a DVD tutorial with each new mac or OS purchase. Just a 60 min chapter based introduction to Mac OSX. From setup to complex stuff like getting wi-fi routers working. Cost a few thousand to produce and pennies to include in every box. The whole family can sit and watch this in the living room in their own good time.

 

[Highland]

Nicely spotted 'Coreweb', this could be what Leopard drop down menus look like. I hope it is cause I don't like Aqua myself:



Current OS X drop down;..........................................iPhone drop down (possibly in Leopard);

....................

Much simpler and sleeker looking IMO.

Yeah... might be one way they could go. I wouldn't read anything into the single arrow though. One arrow = drop down menu. Two arrows = pop up menu. Here's some of what's already available in Tiger.

 

[NicP]

I have been trying to teach my girlfriend that she doesn't have to quit every application once she finishes using it. Keeping an application open allows it to launch a window much faster when you want to use it again and the only thing its consuming while idle is RAM which will be swapped to disk if another application needs it. Of course having too many applications open at a time could be a problem, but for half a dozen or a dozen there is really no problem. So to reiterate my point: this is by design!

It's not. That wasn't the point of my post, just an aside. And I can think of four examples:

1) My wife, a newspaper reporter, never "quits" her apps. She just kills the windows. I've explained it to her several times, but it's not intuitive for her.

2) Newspaper staff where she works. All Mac users. Same thing.

3) My boss in the lab. Long-time Mac user. Same thing.

4) Go to the computer lab on campus. Look at the iMacs after everyone has left. No windows open, but apple-tab and you'll see 6-10 apps open.

Just my observations. If the Mac was the god of the user-friendliness world, I don't think I'd have had these observations.

 

[NicP]

Applications that are only allowed to have 1 window will close when you close that window. Add to your list iphoto and toast. (I think the only exception too this rule is ical. I have never been able to have multiple windows in ical, but it stays open, I assume to keep the dock icon showing the correct date)

This sounds like a matter of conditioning than anything else. I've been using the systems since OS 9 but at the same time used Windows systems since 95, so I haven't had trouble learning this. Because one cannot grasp the concept of a different method of closing an application, it doesn't necessarily make the implementation counterintuitive.

There are a few exceptions though. Some small apps do close by killing windows. So far the only apps I've encountered that do this are MactheRipper, Handbrake, Dictionary, PhotoBooth and I think there are a few more, but it's not many.