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It's all a bit messy really - Infineon did say ramping up from June...

If they hopped on it right now they could whip out an early fan-boy batch for June. EDN has been a pain regarding Apple rumours.

Anyone have any ideas on this?
 
...

Presumably you could use the accelerometers to actually map where an iPhone was in 3 dimensional space with some accuracy, if you started from a fixed point? If you track the acceleration and time, and thus the speed, in 3 dimensions, wouldn't that give it to you?

of acceleration and the...

hey! i didnt think about that at all. this could be useful for dragracing applications. (of *cough* some sort)
for example, there is a device out at the moment that uses accelerometers to establish (obviously) acceleration, g forces, therefore distance and speed.
using fairly basic formulas to establish a quartermile speed and time.

this could end up being developed on the iphone as well.

i know its off topic, but cool none-the-less

to keep it slightly on topic. im hoping for an australian release at the end of june, hopefully with 3g
 
hey! i didnt think about that at all. this could be useful for dragracing applications. (of *cough* some sort)
for example, there is a device out at the moment that uses accelerometers to establish (obviously) acceleration, g forces, therefore distance and speed.
using fairly basic formulas to establish a quartermile speed and time.

this could end up being developed on the iphone as well.
i know its off topic, but cool none-the-less

to keep it slightly on topic. im hoping for an australian release at the end of june, hopefully with 3g

Even better, you could have your own instant real time display of all the data of being in a car, like a racing car? Check out ride quality (as seen by bumps of the iPhone, shown as a simple height vs time line graph) or record (peak) acceleration, peak speed (we have a link to gps after all!) etc.
This is kind of what I mean by how much the SDK could change areas that previously wouldn't really have any need to touch phone apps at all.
Imagine "Dragsters Monthly magazine" giving out a set of free apps that you could show off your acceleration of your car.

Putting it on its head - Seeing as the iPhone triangulates with wifi signals - if you could add the latlong of moveable wifi stations, or create phantom ones - you could use a wifi signal as a finish line, or a waypoint etc.

Or using an iPhone as a Physics lesson aid. Pop it into a casing, put it sideways on, give it some wheels, and show off 2d movement. Put it on the end of a spring, and show the real time oscillation in acceleration through an acceleration vs time graph logged.

Or cycling. Apart from the mindmelting problem of non simple orientation of the phone in 3D space, you could use it showing pedalling strength left versus right foot, or smoothness of movement (through the changes in speed over time).

Maybe it's time to make a thread where people throw in suggestions for apps to see what's technically possible?

Aussie's gonna get a 3G party.
 
Did I miss something, aside from the fact that fake promo pics were made for a australia release?

It's fun to add random spurious rumor occassionally ;)

Nah - Simple thought being - If Oz gets a shop after June, and in June the phone is announced, then i'd imagine they'd probably have 3G iPhones in stock. Apple needs to buy/build and stock a shop before it's opened, which kinda gives us some clue as to when it'll be open for business.
 
hehe :)

Prepare to be slightly pissed - as a dongle A-GPS attachment is less than 100 days away.

a GPS attachment i can cope with.... then i can plug it in.... but BUILT IN then i will be pissed...
 
Dang it's quiet. Ok - Quick link to Matt Mason's video on google video:
ALl about piracy and how businesses need to take note of them, and learn from them. In this relation, I think Apple has stolen a march from it's competitors:

Around 30 minutes in, Matt shows why - Apple has allowed the pirates to remix it's product for a while. It's gained a lot of information from this, and learnt some things that the users really enjoy, and have no doubt emulated it in their app store etc. APple is playing the pirates at their own game, and offering to come to the light side and enjoy some meaty 70/30 advantages.

Link this into the "stealth" weapon of Apple - They've been shipping the "Pro" tools as standard with every copy of their OS.
There's an argument about whether $99 dollars is too low a pricepoint to be able to get in to the inner ADC core, to get apps on the store. (It's likely a flexible price, and they're filtering not by price but by other means at this point, as they're not letting everyone in).
But still - All you need is Mac (dumbeedumbahdahhhh ;) ). You don't even need an iPhone at a pinch. Load XCode, grab the SDK, get the tools, start playing with the simulator.

http://www.macworld.com/article/132003/2008/02/xcode.html


The other thing Apple did by providing a free, full-featured copy of its developer tools was to make every single user of Mac OS X a full-featured potential developer, and you can for free join the Apple Developer Connection, and now get your mitts on the SDK. (and then get hit with a ludicrous NDA, but that's another matter). This isn't going to be useful for many, but it's seriously opened the door to make it easier for potential developers. As a side point, i'd think it'd make a great piece to see a Mac magazine / website see if they could get an average user's app design up and running with some help, and see how easy it actually is.

Interface Builder does seem to be ahead of XCode at this point, but as a user on macworld said:
"the point is, Apple is providing a serious toolset with no barrier to entry other than running and installer and learning. "
With the SDK coming, i'm sure technical publishers have see where the puck is going, and are hard at work to update and expand the documentation and learning material for working with SDK, IB, and XCode itself. Apple may well create a bridge, to hide Objective C to an extent. (XcodeTemplateFactory,Cocoalabs http://www.cocoalab.com/?q=becomeanxcoder has a copy online, and http://www.cocoalab.com/BecomeAnXcoder.pdf is the download.) (Having little to no coding experienec, the cocoalab tutorial is a good read so far.)

Would it be worth Apple's time making its XCode integrated development environment (IDE) more easy to use for both professional and beginner alike? I'd say so. WWDC may well bring a XCode 3.0 to 3.x update and throw out a lot more tutorials to boot. Least the variables are mainly descriptive in ObjC.

/*
http://developer.apple.com/referencelibrary/index.html
Same for developer guides:
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/

Just a few guides for XCode:
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/DeveloperTools/Xcode-date.html
More sample code:
http://developer.apple.com/samplecode/
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/CoreData/cdProgrammingGuide.html
Aaron Hillegas will have a new one in May I believe on Cocoa Programming for MacOS X */
 
Yehawww!!Apple has placed orders for the production of the second-generation iPhone,

Now who's more sure of JUNE!

9to5mac : "Apple has placed orders for the production of the second-generation iPhone, while its European network partners complain at lower than expected sales.

The company has asked its Far East suppliers to produce 200,000 units of the new second generation 3G-enabled iPhone by the end of May, with production ramping up to two million, or 500,000 per week, in June, making a June release of the device a done deal.

Whether Apple could make a clamshell or a slider phone as svelt as the iPhone currently is interesting...

Original article:
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/telecoms/article3770932.ece

The paydirt 1st: "Times Online understands that Apple has placed an order with its Asian suppliers to produce 200,000 of the new 3G iPhones by the end of May, rising to 2 million - 500,000 per week - in June. With a four week lead time between production and placement, that would leave Mr Jobs free to launch the device during an annual developers conference at which he usually speaks. "

It's right in line with the Infineon earnings call information, saying a small amount in May, with a ramp up. You heard the earnings call info analysed here 1st ;)

The article in full:

Mobile operators with exclusive contracts to sell Apple's iPhone are bracing themselves for significant losses on unsold stock as they clear the shelves to make way for a new, faster version expected this summer.

O2, which sells the phone in the UK, and T-Mobile, the German distributor, are said to have significantly overestimated the number of first version iPhones that would sell in Europe.

Kathryn Huberty, an analyst at Morgan Stanley specialising in Apple, said the losses on early model iPhones would be "significant" even though they may recoup some of this in monthly revenue from customers who bought the cheaper devices.

Ms Huberty said European mobile executives seemed to have become over-excited by the hype surrounding the iPhone at the time of its US release on the AT&T network last June. They had since had to take steps to shift stock on which they would now make a loss in order to clear the shelves for the new 3G iPhone, which is expected to be in greater demand in Europe than in the US because of the more advanced phone networks.

On Tuesday O2 announced it was cutting the price of the iPhone by more than a third — from £269 to £169 — and two weeks ago T-Mobile made an even more drastic cut, from €399 (£319) to €99. An O2 spokeswoman said the price cut was "not a reactive move but part of a well thought out strategy of maximising the success of the iPhone in the UK." T-Mobile was not immediately available for comment. With Orange, which won the contract in France, the three sold 330,000 units to the end of December, but industry sources say that European sales of the iPhone were forecast to be between 500,000 and 600,000. Orange has yet to cut the price.

O2 said in December that its sales of 160,000 iPhones were "broadly" hitting the target of selling "a couple of hundred thousand" by mid-January. According to a report by another mobile analyst, CCS Insight, last week, sales of iPhones had "slowed significantly" in all the European markets where it is available" ahead of the release of the 3G version, and retailers faced "challenges" in clearing stock from existing channels. Apple is expected to launch its new phone in June.

Times Online understands that Apple has placed an order with its Asian suppliers to produce 200,000 of the new 3G iPhones by the end of May, rising to 2 million - 500,000 per week - in June.

With a four week lead time between production and placement, that would leave Mr Jobs free to launch the device during an annual developers conference at which he usually speaks.

Industry sources told Times Online that the device will have a "radically different" appearance to the current device, which has a 4.5 inch screen and slick, aluminium backing. Among the possibilities are flip version, which would enable the screen to be larger, and a sliding model with a regular qwerty keyboard - as opposed to a touchscreen one.

"I think ultimately you going to see multiple versions," one Asia-based analyst, said. "One for customers who want it principally as a music and video device, which will be similar to the existing model, one for people who want to communicate - with the keyboard, and one for people who want it as a substitute for their laptop - that will let them browse the internet on a larger screen."

[Could this see the iTablet actually becoming part of the iPhone lineup??]

The new phone may also usher in a change in the way Apple strikes distribution deals. Ms Huberty suggested that Apple will eventually break with its policy of favouring one network to be the exclusive distributor of the iPhone in a given territory — possibly as early as next year.

She said that many had suggested that Apple's exclusive contracts with the carriers would last for five years, whereas it was more likely they were for two years. That meant that from June next year in the US — October next year in the UK — Apple would be selling the iPhone to other carriers. This fitted with the company's strategy of moving its reliance on payments from carriers to include charging for downloads of software applications and taking a cut of internet advertising.

Ms Huberty said: "Steve Jobs's (Apple's chief executive) end game is not to limit distribution and maximise carrier payments. It's to bring the best mobile platform to the market and then sell as many units as possible. There's lots of ways Apple can drive revenue from the iPhone that aren't part of the current model."
 
isn't it a bit shortsighted to go into full production of a model of phone that hasn't had FCC/CE certification, which, if this thing DOES have 3g, it would certainly need to do?

I'm going to wait and see on this one.. as the terminology "understands" is definately not a confirmation.
 
Great find, Tomato! This in conjunction with the Infineon call seems to be pretty solid evidence that it will be June. I think most people were already figuring June anyway, but it is good to see such strong evidence.

Now, if they will have roughly 450,000 or so made by the end of the first week of June (right before the keynote) what does that say about actual availability? Will it be announced at WWDC and then released immediately, or will they announce and then wait until, say the end of the month, in order to build stock to appropriate launch levels? I don't know how many iphone version1 phones they had ready to go on launch day, but that might give us a clue.
 
isn't it a bit shortsighted to go into full production of a model of phone that hasn't had FCC/CE certification, which, if this thing DOES have 3g, it would certainly need to do?

I'm going to wait and see on this one.. as the terminology "understands" is definately not a confirmation.

The article points out it's more likely to be things i.e. plural.
It's highly unlikely that it doesn't have 3G (clause - one or two of the models might not, but lets just assume that Apple has moved out of the EDGE stone age...)

We don't know it hasnt already got certification or at least a head nod.

Ok so let's watch the system in action, and how long it takes to get picked up. Not so much action on the Forum Spy yet...I've submitted to the front page a minute ago. And the post above is timestamped a minute after seeing the article on 9to5mac. Kinda makes me wish i'd read the paper today!
 
The 2G 3G v2 iPhone :)

So a breakdown of the 9toMac article, and the Times article. We'll wait for Macrumors to catch up ;)

<edit> Thanks for macrumors/Arn/other for the Front page shout out:)


In brief:
- Apple network partners overbought, undersold, are feeling potential financial losses from unsold/unprofitable stock, and are pressuring Apple
- The 3G iPhone is coming. Announcement by June 10th is definite.
- Ramp up by June for production.
- Different model types to come out (The Times is a bit vague on this)



- Apple has asked "it's Far East suppliers" to produce 200,000 units of the new second generation 3G-enabled iPhone by the end of May.
- Production will ramp up to 2 million, or 500,000 per week, in June, making a June release of the device a done deal.
- The Times, who sources:

- See the new iPhone having a "radically different" appearance to the current generation.
This doesn't discount multiple models (an updated model 3G version, and a new model/models - e.g. flip/clamshell, slider with keyboard, slider etc.)

- When these multiple versions come out is still not pinned down. The Times suggests
- Multiple carriers might get them soon (but then this might be sloppy extrapolation from the investor conference call a month or so back, when Apple described itself as "not wedded" to its exclusivity strategy).
This could be as soon as next year.
(You'd think that, as Intel has it's MID Atom chips becoming more competitive with ARM's offerings, and also the competition to the iPhone becoming much more sophisticated and on a hardware par with v2 iPhone's predicted feature list.)

- European network partners got hit by the reality distortion field of Jobs, but customers expecting 3G iPhones weren't so affected: So the partners overbought, and undersold in relation to their sales estimates. Germany, France and the UK between them reportedly sold 333,000 units by the end of December; expectation had been for between 500,000 to 600,000 sales in the period.
==> the network partners have significant stock of v1 iPhones - This doesn't bode so well for future iPhone users, as this cost will be potentially passed on to the customer (think the 3G licensing fiasco). Kathryn Huberty, an analyst at Morgan Stanley told The Times that losses on early model iPhones would be "significant". Apple's under pressure to share that risk (and more likely to be able to have a way to sell them somehow to the grey market for example). You'd have to say the decision not to have 3G was part of this less than overwhelming response in Europe. Better to make the customer wait than disappoint in the end though IMO.

- Is the 3 week lead time between production and placement realistic?


- One of the big areas of talk is that The Times says the next gen iPhone will have a "radically different" appearance to the current device

Whether this means replaces, or creates another iPhone handset model waits to be clarified. The Times talks about "possibilities" and gives the example of a flip version, a sliding model. But then they say "as opposed to a touchscreen one". Surely Apple would still make the models touchscreen??

They then quote an unnamed "Asia-based analyst". Who thinks we're "ultimately going to see multiple versions". Which is unfortunately going back to analysts stating the bleeding obvious.
He makes the suggestion that different shapes would be more suited for different user types:

"One for customers who want it principally as a music and video device, which will be similar to the existing model, one for people who want to communicate - with the keyboard, and one for people who want it as a substitute for their laptop - that will let them browse the internet on a larger screen."

But wouldn't a clamshell or slider be going back in terms of design for Apple? The iPhone scores well due to it's screen size. To cut that down moves the handset towards the illthought previous Apple phone, and into the hands of Nokia et al. There are 1,000s of clamshells and sliders.

Personally, they might make a nanoiPhone, but i'd see them more moving towards adding an iTablet at the larger more expensive end, than seeing them add too many "not small enough to now use the internet on my iPhone" sized models.

Another point about distribution deals:
Ms Huberty suggests that the exclusivity was never truly found out - we didn't see the contracts, and the actual wording/lengths might have given Apple more wriggle room than first anticipated. A get out clause or special wording might = non exclusivity in current markets earlier, it might mean just analyst extrapolation from previous Apple statements in general about distribution in new markets.

(She said that many had suggested that Apple's exclusive contracts with the carriers would last for 5 years, whereas it was more likely they were for 2 years.) The interesting part of the timing of that if it was true was that 2 years would mean ending <edit:> *next* June for the US, but October next year for UK (rather than 2011 and 2012 respectively). This would mean that come Intel's foray into MID's mid 2009, Apple might be carrier agnostic to a greater extent in the US.


Ms Huberty : "Steve Jobs's (Apple's chief executive) end game is not to limit distribution and maximise carrier payments. It's to bring the best mobile platform to the market and then sell as many units as possible. There's lots of ways Apple can drive revenue from the iPhone that aren't part of the current model."


A lot to sink your teeth on this Friday :)
 
The interesting part of the timing of that if it was true was that 2 years would mean ending *this* June for the US, but OCtober next year for UK (rather than 2011 and 2012 respectively).

t0mat0 You are all over this again. Good to see.

But I think you meant to say was for *next* June (2009) for exclusivity. The iPhone has only been out for less than a year now.
 
t0mat0 You are all over this again. Good to see. But I think you meant to say was for *next* June (2009) for exclusivity. The iPhone has only been out for less than a year now.

You're right. Will edit. I'm in the UK and have held off buying since I saw the keynote, so for me, it feels like much longer than a year ;)

I'm probably going to keep debate more on this thread than https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/472491/ as usually in those threads, a lot gets said, but people don't necessarily read through others posts, which kind of dumbs down the discussion somewhat.

So - Who where what when why and how much??
What's suddenly become a big question (Ah, I still love the fan boy realisation from last year, when Jobs starts going: A phone, an music player, an internet device. A phone, a music player, an internet device...)
 
What's suddenly become a big question (Ah, I still love the fan boy realisation from last year, when Jobs starts going: A phone, an music player, an internet device. A phone, a music player, an internet device...)

I can see it now:
"If purchased separately these products would run you over $2000, but if you call within the next 30 minutes it can be yours for the low, LOW price of $599" *oooohs and aaaahs from the crowd*
 
I can see it now:
"If purchased separately these products would run you over $2000, but if you call within the next 30 minutes it can be yours for the low, LOW price of $599" *oooohs and aaaahs from the crowd*

Booom! Start the clock ;)

The cost difference comes in part with not needed multiple hardware for the software for your application (be it mobile browser, GPS, phone etc). And the OS X for iPhone kinda helps out on that front.

The v2.0 2nd gen 3G iPhone

Who
Apple duh! no - the answer to the who question is going to be interesting. Apple has worked with other companies before, and also has long standing relationships with several.

Ones to watch:
- A map firm. Google is the prime initial target, but the iPhone is extremely attractive as a GPS solution, whether using a paid subscription or not.
- Google in general. Location Based services will come back with a vengeance. (Will Google start using the accelerometers for panning?)
- Nike - They're pegged as working on gym related information, but they did branch out on their own with their USB wristband. Since Nike Plus took a siesta, competition has surrounded them a bit more.
- Garmin. Apple's heading to buy someone. By no means a cert that it's Garmin, but a GPS based company could be a possibility. An Apple Forerunner 405?


What
Another mystery
- An updated iPhone, no real change in form factor
- A range of models, or the movement to allow a range to be created (the Times article was supposition at this point). It's debatable whether APple would move to a flip phone clamshell or slider (to some, it'd seem a move in the wrong direction, going back on the progress the iPhone shape gave).

When
Why is it that the rumors say 200,000 handsets in May, then a ramp up in June? Are these handsets just for internal testing? Could these be demo models for shops, to tease the public till the new model(s) ship?

How
- A staggered launch?

How Much
Apple usually has say 3 models, with 3 price points. A new model comes out, and it's the Kansas City Shuffle.
Disregarding the handset price slashing (which isn't touching the contract pricing so much) currently to clear stock, Apple has still been dynamic in its pricing so far.
 
First off, I appreciate all of the contributions Tomato has made to this thread. I just wanted to share my opinions about the 3G iPhone.

Call me crazy, but I think apple will somehow announce the new iphone either this tuesday, or next tuesday. I figure it will take approximately 4-6 weeks to make preparations for the launch and FCC process (although i read somewhere that Apple was in talks with the FCC at the end of 2007) And I don't buy the idea of depressed sales really. It's hard enough to find an iPhone as it is. Maybe I am just too hopeful for a May release so that developers can have it in their hands by the time WWDC rolls around.

Another point: A lot of people are saying that Telstra in Australia would be the first to receive the new iPhone. I think that is ludicrous. If anyone is going to get the 3G iPhone first, it is going to be the US. Apple is an American company, and the US has had the iPhone the longest. It makes sense for it to be refreshed first. Also, the US is Apple's largest and most important market. No way will they try to piss us Americans off by not giving us the goods first.

And I know that the EU has a bigger population, but marketing in Europe is more expensive because you have to deal with different cultures and different providers. In the US, the iPhone will be available nationally through AT&T and AT&T only. Its much more cost effective for them. Also, Americans will eat up the new iPhone just like they did with the first one. (Albeit with much less hype)
 
Call me crazy, but I think apple will somehow announce the new iphone either this tuesday, or next tuesday. I figure it will take approximately 4-6 weeks to make preparations for the launch and FCC process (although i read somewhere that Apple was in talks with the FCC at the end of 2007) And I don't buy the idea of depressed sales really. It's hard enough to find an iPhone as it is. Maybe I am just too hopeful for a May release so that developers can have it in their hands by the time WWDC rolls around.

Another point: A lot of people are saying that Telstra in Australia would be the first to receive the new iPhone. I think that is ludicrous. If anyone is going to get the 3G iPhone first, it is going to be the US. Apple is an American company, and the US has had the iPhone the longest. It makes sense for it to be refreshed first. Also, the US is Apple's largest and most important market. No way will they try to piss us Americans off by not giving us the goods first.

And I know that the EU has a bigger population, but marketing in Europe is more expensive because you have to deal with different cultures and different providers. In the US, the iPhone will be available nationally through AT&T and AT&T only. Its much more cost effective for them. Also, Americans will eat up the new iPhone just like they did with the first one. (Albeit with much less hype)

Crazy? Not really :)

As said, they could always pull something out of the bag next tuesday (being the day prior to the 2Q 08 earnings call (see previous few posts unless I haven't posted that info yet).

Remembering last June - Apple did silent updates of the XServe and the MacPro if my memory serves me - This time round a *lot* more kit will have passed it's normal length between updates in the Buyers Guide.

In terms of depressed sales - it was a bit of a hunt for the reasons of what was happening in terms of the price cuts, etc. A bit of a pin the tail on the donkey, till it surfaced that certain people had overbought iPhones from Apple, and were in a race to sell these soon to be redundant phones before they lost even more money on them.

I haven't heard anyone say Oz would get it first, and I agree - US first. Other places could get a simultaneous launch, but doesn't Australia need a shiny new Apple store first? :)

I'd say that Europe will give the US a run for its money in terms of sales rates. Or put another way, Europe is going to show a much better sales rate. There is an unquantified but large cohort of people wanting to grab the next gen iPhone (maybe read the boards here first to check out there aren't any weird screen or other bugs 1st though...)

It's in Apple's interest to get the product out ASAP. And I imagine they are hard at work at it. And those other amazing products in the pipeline, as Steve is wont to say.
 
Gosh, what will happen to this forum when Apple releases the 3G iPhone?


No one will have a reason to be here :p


Look, 3G will be great....but I think people are over blowing how great. I'm far more "pumped" 2.0 iPhone OS update
 
Gosh, what will happen to this forum when Apple releases the 3G iPhone?

No one will have a reason to be here :p

Look, 3G will be great....but I think people are over blowing how great. I'm far more "pumped" 2.0 iPhone OS update

Aye - I use saying 3G iPhone here synonymously with meaning the new iPhone(s) that Apple will soon put out with upgraded hardware, and the 2.0 software. It's a bit easier to say 3G iPhone :)

I think the Forum will have a large buzz come the WWDC - Apple could easily build the fanboys into a salivating/foaming frenzy (and deliver more this time *cough* MWSF keynote *cough*)

I can't wander too much on this thread in terms of 2.0 OS - (well, I could just change the 1st posts title hehe) but i'm sure as hell interested in it - (enough to have a look at the SDK, learn a bit about Objective C, see what goes where, and how hard things are to do coding wise for a simple app post IB work).

And technically - isn't the Infineon is more 3.5G than 3G? ;)
I hope they'll have OLED and a 2nd cam in come June, and none of this waiting round business. GPS can be added with a bolt on.
 
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