The 2017 model year supports 4K60, though it does struggle.
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4K at 30Hz only
- Thread starter Scrooge MacDuck
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Just try the monitor without the hub? (Would be my absolute first thing to do)
USB-C to HMDI adapter (Apple sells one)
You’re using what is basically a proof of concept, once off netbook from 2017 with a no name dongle from Amazon. Take it easy.
Still holdin' it wrong, I know 😀 If it's enough for me, why shouldn't I be using it? I can't be bothered by whatever excuses the manufacturer may come up with; I only care about the user side of things, seeing as said manufacturer ain't givin' me no stuff for free, to say the least.
That's also why I'm only really interested in resolving the issue in hand, not discussing anyone's decisions. Sorry if that line about Apple losing their edge, - in my view, - has triggered anybody. Thanks everyone for your input!
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Apple must be losing their edge lately… You say about a computer that’s almost a decade old.
I might as well say, Apple has been losing their edge lately, that iPhone 7 andApple Watch Series 1 is such a pain to use.
What is up with these threads lately. This is just like that thread the other day about the person who wanted to read PDFs on their iPhone, but refused to use the files app, refused to use AirDrop, and refuse to log into their email, and then blamed Apple for their problems.
“you’re holding it wrong” was a genuinely awful response to what was, in all actuality, a real hardware issue.
This… Is not. If anything, it has nothing to do with Apple and all to do with the hub you are using, combined with the fact that the machine you’re talking about is almost a decade old.
That’s on you, not Apple.
You are metaphorically trying to shove a square peg into a round hole, then blaming the peg for not fitting.
Please read my posts above. Newer Macs are still plagued by basic usability issues in regard to external monitors.
P.S. If anything, the computer runs Ventura, which is still supported. Mind you, the monitor was first released in 2014. So both bits of kit are from about the same era.
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As I said, both bits of kit are from the same era. So it must've been 'back then already', not lately. I agree with the hub part, though. It's just that something like this should have been plug and play, whether in 2017 or 2025.
Yes, but as several people have already said, and you have blatantly ignored, it’s neither the computer or your display that’s the problem.
And I said I'd take the advice and try DP. Hope it won't cost no hundred bucks, though 😀
It's not entirely obvious. Apple's specs suggest the 2017 MacBook can do 4K @ 60Hz and since it only has a USB C port it must be through that. The adapter page claims it can do 4K@60Hz. In theory it seems like it should work.
Even Apple's own HDMI adapter is unclear as to whether or not the 2017 MacBook can do it via their HDMI adapter.
This sums it up perfectly. It should all be straightforward enough for this thread not to exist in the first place.
Don't know if it's an age thing, but I've gone from 'XYZ are ever right; fudge ya, haterz!' to 'I'm payin' these guys a h*lluva lot of money. Why should it be my spare time, too?'
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Your hub is likely the culprit. USB3.0 5Gbps speeds only allows for 4K30 at best. The fact that they mention 4K60 but 1080p120 should be a trigger: 4K60 is similar bandwidth to 1080p240
The USB speed is irrelevant. USB C does video over Displayport Alt mode. Nothing to do with the USB C speeds. Has more to do with what DP version the computer uses and what the chip in the hub uses to do 4k @ 60Hz.
That’s somewhat (in)correct but means diving deep into the weeds. Not really my area of expertise, so feel free to correct me!
If I’m not mistaken, alt mode can double bandwidth so a 5Gbps USB 3.x would enable 10Gbps DisplayPort bandwidth. 4k60 typically requires just over 12Gbps for 8bit (15.68 Gbps for 10bit), meaning neither bitrate can be powered by a 5Gbps hub. IF you can do YUV 4:2:2 or YUV 4:2:0 at 8bit (8.36 and 6.27Gbps respectively) that could work… If you cannot configure the pulldown, you’re stuck with RGB 4:4:4 which is where I pulled my other numbers from. Apologies if this is glazing eyeballs.
It gets really messy with the marketing-blinded fools at the USB-IF since determining actual USB 3 versions is a mess of colossal proportions. Happily HDMI and DP seem to both be following their lead!
MacBook Pro 2017 has Intel HD Graphics 615 which supports only DisplayPort 1.2. DisplayPort 1.2 supports HBR2 and 4:2:2 chroma sub sampling. It does not support HBR3 or DSC or 4:2:0 chroma sub sampling.
A USB-C hub that supports USB 3.x speeds only has 2 lanes of DisplayPort.
2 lanes of HBR2 can only do 4K30 (RGB 8bpc for HDMI, 10bpc for CVT-RB). 4K60 is possible with 4:2:2 8bpc and CVT-RB timing (not HDMI timing).
You need 4 lanes of HBR2 to get 4K60 RGB or 4:4:4 8bpc HDMI.
2 lanes of HBR3 can get 4K60 (RGB 8bpc CVT-RB); HDMI timing requires 4:2:2 10bpc or DSC.
A USB-C hub that supports USB 3.x speeds only has 2 lanes of DisplayPort.
2 lanes of HBR2 can only do 4K30 (RGB 8bpc for HDMI, 10bpc for CVT-RB). 4K60 is possible with 4:2:2 8bpc and CVT-RB timing (not HDMI timing).
You need 4 lanes of HBR2 to get 4K60 RGB or 4:4:4 8bpc HDMI.
2 lanes of HBR3 can get 4K60 (RGB 8bpc CVT-RB); HDMI timing requires 4:2:2 10bpc or DSC.
You're mistaken. For example a non-Pro iPhone 15 can only do USB 2.0 speeds (480 Mbps) but can do 4K @ 60 Hz output. Obviously it's not doing that in less than 1 Gbps bandwidth. The USB speeds have nothing to do with the video output.That’s somewhat (in)correct but means diving deep into the weeds. Not really my area of expertise, so feel free to correct me!
If I’m not mistaken, alt mode can double bandwidth so a 5Gbps USB 3.x would enable 10Gbps DisplayPort bandwidth. 4k60 typically requires just over 12Gbps for 8bit (15.68 Gbps for 10bit), meaning neither bitrate can be powered by a 5Gbps hub. IF you can do YUV 4:2:2 or YUV 4:2:0 at 8bit (8.36 and 6.27Gbps respectively) that could work… If you cannot configure the pulldown, you’re stuck with RGB 4:4:4 which is where I pulled my other numbers from. Apologies if this is glazing eyeballs.
It gets really messy with the marketing-blinded fools at the USB-IF since determining actual USB 3 versions is a mess of colossal proportions. Happily HDMI and DP seem to both be following their lead!
A Google search tells me the Dell P2415Qb only supports HDMI 1.4, so you need to use DisplayPort (1.2) to achieve 4K60.
Edit: Also, make sure MST is off.
Edit: Also, make sure MST is off.
Huh. Well, that’s definitely above my pay grade (and perhaps an exception? Phones, particularly iPhones, are likely weird beasts at best and I know nothing about them since I treat mine like an unkillable virus)
If you're having problems with a ten-year-old Mac, you shouldn't blame Apple, but your outdated technology. For comparison, in 2017, not all mainstream Windows PCs were capable of displaying 4K 60Hz. This depended primarily on the GPU and the cable used.
Moreover, Apple now allows its M4 mini to display three external displays (two 6K displays at 60Hz via Thunderbolt and one 5K display at 60Hz via Thunderbolt). And the M4 MacBook Air now supports two external displays. Suffice it to say, the bad will isn't on Apple's side.
Try to beat a MacBook Air M4 VS a MacBook Air 2017 in thinness and lightness! And a Mac mini M4 VS a 2018 one! Good luck to you...
I have the same model (Macbook 12" 2017, 8GB, 256GB, m3). I tried to connect it ot my Samsung TV 4K with the Hub I have (Adam CASA Hub A01m) and didn't work, only 4K 30hz.
I think this is related to the HDMI cable, the hub or the Mac but if Apple says that the Mac supports 4K/60hz it should work. Did you try it with a DisplayPort cable?
Looks like you need a Display Port to achieve the 4K/60hz
Also, this thread comments says that the performance with this little mac in 4K/60hz is not good. I think it's the sum of all the parts: Display port cable, the need of a hub due to only have an USB C and the underpowered Mac.
Still love mine (using it with Catalina to have a good performance) but you need to know its limitations.
I think this is related to the HDMI cable, the hub or the Mac but if Apple says that the Mac supports 4K/60hz it should work. Did you try it with a DisplayPort cable?
Looks like you need a Display Port to achieve the 4K/60hz
Also, this thread comments says that the performance with this little mac in 4K/60hz is not good. I think it's the sum of all the parts: Display port cable, the need of a hub due to only have an USB C and the underpowered Mac.
Still love mine (using it with Catalina to have a good performance) but you need to know its limitations.
That hub only does 4K @ 30 Hz regardless it looks like (see here).
I had a similarish iGPU 2018 Mac Mini. With the non-integer "looks like" resolutions it could be a little laggy. Using "looks like" 1080p or native 4K was fine.