$600 for 4GB, 500GB HD Lenovo. Did I just waste my money buying a Mac Air?

[kulimer]

So, here's what I saw and why I compared, I will start with what I bought 13"(128GB) vs what I saw Thinkpad X200 12.5". Feel free to add. I will expect the same you think you got yourself a better deal.

Thinkpad X200
PRICETAG: $1049
12.5" HD LED Backlit Display
2.7GHz Intel Core i7-2620M Processor (4MB L3, 1333MHz FSB)
4 GB DDR3 (1333MHz (1 DIMM))
320 GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
Intel® HD Graphics 3000
Battery 29+ (6 cell)
2.9 lbs
1 Year Depot Warranty

MacBook Air 13"
PRICETAG: $1299
13" display
1.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor
4GB memory
128GB flash storage
Intel HD Graphics 3000
Wireless web, Up to 5 hours Standby time, Up to 30 days
2.96lbs
1 year warranty, 90 day free phone support

I have thrown in some specs, here are the details from official website
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_air/select?mco=MjMzOTQxMjE

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/...=20E990072AB74EA5EA87218BF129CC11&action=init

 

[scarred]

So, here's why I started the thread, and I will compare what I bought 13"(128GB) vs what I saw Thinkpad X200 12.5".

Thinkpad X200
PRICETAG: $899
12.5" HD LED Backlit Display
2.7GHz, 4MB L3, 1333MHz FSB Intel Core i7-2620M Processor
4 GB DDR3 - 1333MHz (1 DIMM)
320 GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
Intel® HD Graphics 3000
Battery 29+ (6 cell)
2.9 lbs
1 Year Depot Warranty

MacBook Air 13"
PRICETAG: $1499
13" display
1.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor
4GB memory
128GB flash storage
Intel HD Graphics 3000
2.96lbs
1 year warranty, 90 day free phone support

I have thrown in some specs, here are the details from official website
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_air/select?mco=MjMzOTQxMjE

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/...=20E990072AB74EA5EA87218BF129CC11&action=init

First, you cut and pasted wrong. The 899 is a core i3. Your core i7 is 1049 starting. Add an SSD, and the price is 1329.

I'm totally fine with comparing, but ffs man... at least try to be fair. I think I paid just under 1400 for my Macbook Air with taxes and expedited shipping. The prices are basically the same. /thread.

 

[KPOM]

So, here's why I started the thread, and I will compare what I bought 13"(128GB) vs what I saw Thinkpad X200 12.5".

Thinkpad X200
PRICETAG: $899
12.5" HD LED Backlit Display
2.7GHz Intel Core i7-2620M Processor (4MB L3, 1333MHz FSB)
4 GB DDR3 (1333MHz (1 DIMM))
320 GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
Intel® HD Graphics 3000
Battery 29+ (6 cell)
2.9 lbs
1 Year Depot Warranty

MacBook Air 13"
PRICETAG: $1499
13" display
1.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor
4GB memory
128GB flash storage
Intel HD Graphics 3000
2.96lbs
1 year warranty, 90 day free phone support

I have thrown in some specs, here are the details from official website
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_air/select?mco=MjMzOTQxMjE

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/...=20E990072AB74EA5EA87218BF129CC11&action=init

First of all, the MacBook Air is $1299, not $1499. Second, the $899 Lenovo doesn't have the i7. It has the i3. The i7 starts at $1049 and lacks Bluetooth and 720p camera at that price level (though it does have USB 3.0). Third, and most importantly, it has a HDD. Replacing it with a 128GB SSD adds $280. With BT, camera, and SSD, that Lenovo jumps up to $1379. Granted, it has a faster processor and USB 3.0, but the $1299 MacBook Air doesn't look so overpriced anymore. The 13" Air also has a significantly higher resolution display (1440x900).

Maybe if you would stop comparing apples to oranges, and stop posting incorrect information people would take you more seriously. Granted, it does appear Lenovo applied some serious price drops to the X220 line lately, but the difference isn't anywhere near as big as you claim.

 

[deeddawg]

First, you cut and pasted wrong. The 899 is a core i3. Your core i7 is 1049 starting. Add an SSD, and the price is 1329.

I'm totally fine with comparing, but ffs man... at least try to be fair.

Also, display on the Lenovo is 1366x768 vs 1440x900 on the Macbook Air.

 

[kulimer]

The 899 is a core i3. Your core i7 is 1049 starting. Add an SSD, and the price is 1329.

typo, corrected!

 

[buddybd]

First, you cut and pasted wrong. Add an SSD, and the price is 1329.

This doesn't matter to people who do these type of comparisons. They pair a laptop with an HDD and compare it with a Macbook Air with an SSD. And then bitch about how big a loss the MBA is.

And of course, the portability is never ever to be considered.

 

[LordVic]

I think you're having reading comprehension issues with the lenovo site my friend.

the 899 laptop is an i3

they do currently have a discount code on the I7 that you're showing bringing the price to $1,049.00

is that a good price? absolutely. however here are the core differences that could be attributed to the extra you spend on the Apple.

1: the Apple display is not 1366x768. it is 1440 by 900. A much higher pixel count and arguably a better quality display. Lenovo doesn't have an upgrade option to this display, so it's unknown how much more the lenovo would cost with it.

2: The apple trackpad is a glass, entire thing clickable, multi touch interface. The lenovo's is listed as a stanard 2 button with "scrolling". there is no upgrade to this from lenovo. This should be factored into the price.

3: Price listed without Camera. camera comes external, and is an aditional $30

4: Comparing Solid state drives to platter drives. Platter hard drives are cheap. you can pick up 500gb for 60 bucks. SSD's are not cheap. They are a premium upgrade. The Apple listed comes with 128gb. The 128gb flash upgrade for the lenovo is $280

5: Bluetooth is not standard and is a $20 upgrade

So i've just built it as close to the same spec's as possible. the Lenovo is now 1,359.00. Yes it's cheaper. But then you can start factoring other things into the cost.
Such As:

• Thunderbolt Expansion
  Light Aluminum unibody construction
  higher risidual value
  Build quality and durability
  Form Factor - 13" sized, .6" thick notebook that weighs < 3lbs. The Lenovo si listed at 2.90+ lbs (based on options) and is significantly thicker.

So you need to ask yourself. Do you need / want these extras? If yes, then you spent your money well on the Air.

If honestly, you don't need / care / want these, or you don't need the upgrades to the lenovo to make it on par with the Apple, Then you probably overspent and bought something you didn't need.

But spouting crap about "cheaper and better" without proper research is wrong.

 

[kulimer]

Also, display on the Lenovo is 1366x768 vs 1440x900 on the Macbook Air.

it's a smaller screen.

 

[LordVic]

it's a smaller screen.

so's the 11" model of the AIR and it has the same resolution, and is still cheaper

you're not making logical comparisons here.

 

[KPOM]

so's the 11" model of the AIR and it has the same resolution, and is still cheaper

you're not making logical comparisons here.

Exactly. For $1349, I can get the 11" MacBook Air with an i7, 128GB SSD, BT 4.0, and save $30 against the i7-equipped Lenovo. Granted, the Lenovo has a faster processor (roughly 20% faster when you factor in the turbo boost capabilities of both), but the MacBook Air weighs 1/2 lb less.

The Lenovo, with the price drop, is a serious option, but it still doesn't show that the MacBook Air is waste of money. Rather, it shows that comparable products tend to be priced fairly comparably.

----------

For the record, let me say that I'd be thrilled if my employer decided to replace our HP elitebooks (5-6 lbs) with the Lenovo X220-equipped i7s (or even i5 or i3 models) with the SSD. They are nice PCs. But for myself I'll stick with my 11" Air.

 

[deeddawg]

Also, display on the Lenovo is 1366x768 vs 1440x900 on the Macbook Air.

it's a smaller screen.

Yep, so more value to the Macbook Air 13" for a larger screen both physically and pixel real estate.

Plus the X220 seems chunky, over twice as thick; 19-34.6mm vs 3-17mm.

X220 with i5-2520, bluetooth, 128GB SSD prices at $1299 on Lenovo.com -- that's a far cry from $899.

I'm a big fan of Lenovo T and X series; they're good machines. But if you're going to do price comparisons you need to spec the systems equivalently including hard drive vs solid-state drive. Performance of an HDD equipped laptop is a lot different from an SSD equipped laptop and I dare say for most users the HDD/SDD difference will far outweigh CPU difference in typical usage.

 

[Goratrix]

The X220 is a completely different class, though. It's totally incomparable to the Air. It has a full processor (not ULV), all ports, docking station, IPS screen, slice battery giving it 20 hours batter life, etc, etc...

 

[KPOM]

The X220 is a completely different class, though. It's totally incomparable to the Air. It has a full processor (not ULV), all ports, docking station, IPS screen, slice battery giving it 20 hours batter life, etc, etc...

I've acknowledged the processor difference. Given the turbo boost capabilities of the ULV vs LV processors, I'd guess that the 2.7GHz processor is about 20-25% faster.

The IPS screen is optional. The slice battery and docking station are also optional extras. Plus the X220 lacks Thunderbolt.

 

[deeddawg]

The X220 is a completely different class, though. It's totally incomparable to the Air. It has a full processor (not ULV), all ports, docking station, IPS screen, slice battery giving it 20 hours batter life, etc, etc...

Agreed -- it is a wholly different machine aimed at a different market. Priced with i7, IPS display, bluetooth, 128GB SSD, and the slice battery it's about $1600.

ThinkPad Battery 19+ adds a lot of runtime and 1.66lb. Didn't see a spec as to how much it adds to the 35.4mm thickness, but Engadget claims it's another 1.16 inches. That would make the total thickness a hair over 2.5" compared to 0.67 inches for the Macbook Air. That's a stack of 3.75 MBA's...

 

[Xgm541]

The iPhone is NOT reasonably priced compared to some Android phones... at best it's on par price wise but I'm sure I can find a similarly spec'd Android device for cheaper than the equivalent iPhone (3Gs,4, etc)

You also fall in the "owning more than one Apple device" crowd.

Specs are not everything my friend. The android UI is laggy even on the newest chipsets. Also a comparably spec'd & priced android is made out of plastic.

also

It’s generally accepted that, on the aggregate, Android device sales will far outpace iOS sales year after year. However, there’s a dirty little secret about Android devices that most manufacturers are facing: the return rate on some Android devices is between 30 and 40 percent, in comparison to the iPhone 4′s 1.7% return rate as of Antennagate in 2010.

source.

 

[kulimer]

so's the 11" model of the AIR and it has the same resolution, and is still cheaper

you're not making logical comparisons here.

Yes, there is difference, but I don't think it is that big. Most people would not put resolution as their priority.

The things that matter to most people are how fast, how much memory, and weight, 11" Air does have SSD but it's only 68GB(or 128GB), while Lenovo has 320GB. I'd definitely go with the 320GB, so I can at least store some music and movies, yes I know it is faster, but its size has no future value.

2 years ago, 100GB for a laptop was considered "big", now it's considered below average.

Take iphone for example, when it came out in 2007, you had 4GB, 8GB, and 16GB. Now, the minimum iphone 4 is 16GB.

By that Apple logic, the 11" Air you have will be out of production. So, the 11" Air is way below in competition with the Thinkpad in terms of price and future value.

 

[KPOM]

The things that matter to most people are how fast, how much memory, and weight, 11" Air does have SSD but it's only 68GB(or 128GB), while Lenovo has 320GB. I'd definitely go with the 320GB, so I can at least store some music and movies, yes I know it is faster, but its size has no future value.

You seem to be missing the point altogether. No one buys an SSD for low-cost storage capacity. They are expensive (over $2/GB at current prices). However, they provide a significant speed and power advantage. Would you say Lenovo is ripping off customers of the X220 who opt to pay $280 extra to get the 128GB SSD vs. the standard 320GB HDD? I wouldn't.

128GB is more than enough to store operating systems and applications, and will still be the case in the future. If you really want more, there is a 256GB SSD option on the Air that isn't available on the Lenovo (though third party options are available). However, to say it has no future value is disingenuous. Sure, SSD prices may go down in the future (but they have held steady at roughly $2/GB for over a year now), but they will still command a price premium over HDDs. Plus, with cloud services, we may be storing a lot less on personal hard drives in the future.

If onboard storage is more important to you than any other feature, than go ahead and get the Lenovo without the SSD. However, tell the rest of us with SSDs that we are wasting our money.

 

[Pipper99]

Yes, there is difference, but I don't think it is that big. Most people would not put resolution as their priority.

The things that matter to most people are how fast, how much memory, and weight, 11" Air does have SSD but it's only 68GB(or 128GB), while Lenovo has 320GB. I'd definitely go with the 320GB, so I can at least store some music and movies, yes I know it is faster, but its size has no future value.

So, based on your needs mentioned here, you went ahead and bought an MBA with storage that's unworkable for you?

 

[LordVic]

So, by your logic. I didnt need and wasted money on a MBA, cause a simple Netbook would have sufficed.

you know, cause that netbook has a 1.6ghz CPU too (atom)
a screen as well (despite terrible resolution that nobody cares about)
has 2gb ram which is the same as the air,
but wins out cause it came with a 250gb hard drive, where the MBA only has a 64gb (the one i have).

its called buying things that have the capability you look for and knowing the differences in products.

again as I said, if you needed something with large storage capacity, and are willing to sacrifice speed and maybe one or two other things, Then the Lenovo is a good deal

but for the rest of us, the MBA fit our needs

 

[themdub]

Check out the BetterSnapTool app on the mac app store for windows snap feature. It works great and does a whole lot more...I can't live without it now

http://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/bettersnaptool/id417375580?mt=12

I'm a recent Mac convert. If there is one thing I have learned it is that trying to compare a Windows-based machine with a Mac on a Mac forum is probably pointless.

While I agree there are aspects of Mac OSX that I enjoy there are features that I miss from Windows (snap window feature for e.g.).

There are people who will always blindly go with Apple (the majority of them are on this site) despite there being a better alternative (read: cost-effective).

To address your point though, no you didn't waste your money UNLESS you are only using your notebook as a desktop replacement computer that never leaves your house and you only email/word process on it. Then yes you did. If you travel and do any moderate computing tasks you will like the Air. I know I do.

 

[kulimer]

If onboard storage is more important to you than any other feature, than go ahead and get the Lenovo without the SSD. However, tell the rest of us with SSDs that we are wasting our money.

What I have done is understanding both the Apple and Thinkpad product by comparing them side to side, and finding utility maximization for any amount money spent.

As a wise and rational consumer, I see these concerns are important and valid.

 

[hkim1983]

Yes, there is difference, but I don't think it is that big. Most people would not put resolution as their priority.

The things that matter to most people are how fast, how much memory, and weight...

I've been following this thread since its inception since I thought it was quite entertaining, but I've gotten confused over what exactly the OP is trying to accomplish at this point. It's clear that you see more value in the Thinkpad over the Air...so what? Return your air and buy the Thinkpad. What exactly is the problem here? You're fighting a lost cause trying to convince people to bend to your perspective when they themselves are already firmly set in theirs (and vice-versa). Change doesn't occur unless the person in question desires change.

That being said, I disagree with what you're broadly generalizing here. For one thing, you don't speak for "most people", so don't delude yourself into thinking you're some kind of ambassador for the majority. You're arguing this with people who visit and post on the Macrumors forums. I'm sorry for bursting your bubble, but they do not represent "most people" in any shape or form, so bringing that into your argument is pointless and accomplishes nothing but establishing further animosity between the two parties.

I too, do not speak for "most people", but in my personal experiences, the less savvy computer users I have interacted with in my life only care about 4 (now) things in a computer:

-How fast it is, or rather, how consistently "snappy" it is.
-Price.
-Reliability.
-How it looks (this is a new thing I've noticed, wasn't always the case).

Whether or not Apple's line of computers fit their needs is up to them, however, it's clear a lot of people seem to favor the Air for whatever reason.

 

[LordVic]

As a wise and rational consumer, I see these concerns are important and valid.

actually, you're not being a wise and rational consumer at all.

A wise and rational consumer realizes there's more to a purchasing decision that purely "I BUYZ WITH HIGHER NUMBERZ" and realizes there's more to a decision than what shows the highest number.

 

[parapup]

What I have done is understanding both the Apple and Thinkpad product by comparing them side to side, and finding utility maximization for any amount money spent.

As a wise and rational consumer, I see these concerns are important and valid.

I went with the ThinkPad X220 as it turned out to be a better deal than the Air both from a price and performance perspective. Aesthetics and trackpad are the only parts where it takes a beating from the Air - but it isn't all that bad and I can live with a less flashy, beat up feeling laptop just well.

For $1130 I got -

1) 12.5" IPS Display - vs. 11" TN Panel of the Air

2) 8GB RAM vs. 4GB Max for the Air - Can run Virtual Machines on the Thinkpad, Air slows down quite a bit at 4GB.

3) 320GB 7200RPM HDD vs. 64GB SSD for the Air - I never reboot my x220 and the Lenovo Instant Resume allows me to resume Win7 from sleep in a second, without SSD. It is also not a slouch loading programs. No gripes there.

4) USB 3.0 port - For $79 I got a USB3 1TB drive and I am happy with the speed. Still waiting for the Thunderbolt drives so the Air loses badly here.

5) Regular voltage Core i7 CPU - not undervolted or underclocked - 2.7Ghz with 3.20Ghz with Turbo.

 

[Pipper99]

@ the last three guys posted, what I have done is a simple concise compare and contrast, what you have done is ranting in paragraphs. Again, I call that useless verbiage.

Here's an example repeated many times by someone who talks for the sake of talking, you didn't convince me nor any reader about your "wise" decision, which tells me you can't think critically.



What I have done is understanding both the Apple and Thinkpad product by comparing them side to side, and finding utility maximization for any amount money spent.

As a wise and rational consumer, I see these concerns are important and valid.

I don't think that it was particularly wise or rational of you to buy the MBA without having evaluated these concerns prior to purchase. Did you buy the MBA on a whim and then start comparison shopping? Granted, the value for the money of a Mac vs PC is a valid concern for people, and I usually give people the benefit of the doubt on these forums, but, pardon my useless verbiage and uncritical thinking, I don't believe that you purchased a Macbook Air. You're just trying to convince the rest of us that we made a foolish choice.