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8-Core Mac Pro with Clovertown... in November?

I Was Writing About The Future Not Now

slinger1968 said:
Well try reading what you are responding to, before you get your panties in a bunch. I was clearly talking about most software for the masses, not all software. Most software is currently behind the hardware because most software is not written for more than 2 cores yet.

Well, You are wrong, most software is behind the current hardware. The hardware is only still weak for a small niche market of power users. You are a power user but the majority of people out there, especially iMac buyers are not using their computers for the same tasks. Read any of the computer hardware sites and the reviews on the quad core processors. They all say that these are currently enthusiast or power level parts not aimed at the general consumer.

The hardware is only weak for a small niche group of power users. It's rediculous to think that the average user is doing 3D modeling or high powered video processing. It's just silly.

I have a dedicated bittorrent/music playing computer for live uncopywritten music. I've downloaded/uploaded over 1 terabyte of data and have specific computing needs for this. I'm just smart enough to recognize that my usage isn't normal.

Again, Read any of the computer hardware sites and the reviews on the quad core processors. They all say that these are currently enthusiast or power level parts not aimed at the general consumer.
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Again you still misunderstand my meaning. I know that. What I am writing about is the future when power processing is commonplace among the masses. I don't think I'm niche. I think I'm ahead of the curve.
 
jsw said:
I archive HD broadcast recordings on my Rev A mini Core Duo, both OTA ones via the Hybrid and ones via the FireWire connection on my cable box.

FWIW, it works just fine. I'd assume the main reason the average customer isn't doing this is a lack of an HD cable box or the lack of realization that a FW cable turns their Mac into a DVR.

There are numerous uses for 4,8,16,etc. cores... but HD recording doesn't even begin to stress the two in the mini.
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I totally agree that there are numerous uses for 4,8,16,etc. cores... but that still doesn't change the fact that most iMac buyers aren't stressing their machines to the limit that the want/need a 4 core CPU.

Most people don't personally archeive broadcast video long term on any format. They use a DVR or even VHS still for the short term and buy DVD's of shows if they really want to have a long term copy. I'm saying this as an archeivist, someone who has well over 100 DVD's of live uncopywrtten concerts.

All I'm saying is that it's wrong to equate our specialized uses to what the mass public is doing. It's completely unrealistic.
 
Multimedia said:
Again you still misunderstand my meaning. I know that. What I am writing about is the future when power processing is commonplace among the masses. I don't think I'm niche. I think I'm ahead of the curve.
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Well then don't go off on me when you didn't take the time to read or understand my post. Your responses were uncalled for and mistaken.

From the beginning I've said that I expect most software to catch up soon, hopfully within the next 6 months. Right now most software is behind the hardware and you are a niche market, not that that is a bad thing.
 
thereubster said:
But what if the one more thing was a Kentsfield Mac Pro (using the C2Q6600), a i975 Mb with DDR2 ram, etc, etc . Sloting into that $1400-2000 zone? I dont see this competing with the iMac, esp. since you get a 24" screen with your $2000 iMac. It's just another choice. Use the same case, make it black or something


Sounds good......:)
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That would be my ideal machine even if they shrunk the case for only one optical drive. I'm not holding my breath though, I'll be amazed if Apple does it but I'll certainly buy one.
 
slinger1968 said:
That would be my ideal machine even if they shrunk the case for only one optical drive. I'm not holding my breath though, I'll be amazed if Apple does it but I'll certainly buy one.
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It would be nice but I do not seeing it happening because the kentsfield cpu combined with ddr2 will be much faster than a woodcrest fb-ddr2. FB-DDR2 is slower than DDR2.
 
yipster222 said:
It would be nice but I do not seeing it happening because the kentsfield cpu combined with ddr2 will be much faster than a woodcrest fb-ddr2. FB-DDR2 is slower than DDR2.
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FB-DDR2 is slower in some ways and faster in others. First of all, the 512MB modules only run at half the bandwidth vs. the 1 and 2 GB modules. Many of the benchmarks I've seen have involved using 512MB modules (or at least benchmarks for the Mac Pro), so memory tests and overall system performance is somewhat skewed in that respect. FB-DIMMs do have slower access times in relation to conventional DDR2, however they have superior bandwidth and sustained transfer rates. And they are more reliable for large memory configurations (16GB and up). Different hardware for different applications... Either way, I'd still really like to see a Kentsfield based desktop. Apple definitely needs a system offering between the iMac and the Mac pro, they have a huge gap there. I don't know if I'd buy one, the Mac Pro or the more powerful workstation level systems are more fitting to my needs, but I know a lot of people that would jump all over a system with a single quad-core chip.
 
Multimedia said:
2.66GHz is not slower.I am astounded by those who drop in here not understanding this technology at all. Read the thread then get back to us. Do you even understand the term Multi-Threaded Workload?

Oh and welcome to MacRumors. ;) :p :D
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You come across like a Sherman tank on a tooth pick bridge!
 
So when will Adobe...

sonnys said:
You won't see a Clovertown Mac Pro until after Adobe announces the ship date for CS3. The reasons are simple -- a) most would-be Mac Pro purchasers are holding off until the native version of Creative Suite; and b) marketing-wise changing from a dual dual 3 GHz high end to a dual quad 2.66 GHz high end would be seen as a downgrade.

Apple will wait for CS3, and by then there will be a 3+ GHz Clovertown available which will provide for an upgrade that would be much easier to market and sell.
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When will Adobe start shipping CS3? Are there any indications?
 
What I am writing about is the future when power processing is commonplace among the masses. I don't think I'm niche. I think I'm ahead of the curve.
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Not really, just plain niche. When we hit that point everything will either streamed or delivered on demand, in 1080p or whatever. The concept of TV channels and recording will be mostly dead. People aren't going to be compressing weeks worth of their own footage by hand, there would be no purpose. At most they'll be downscaling stuff for their portables and even that will most likely be streamed. If people are, it'll be black-box style, like current DVRs.

Multi-core is great and more and more software will have support for it, Valve are beta testing MP support for the Source engine as we speak. However there is a limit to how parallel things can go and much as an mhz plateau was reached, a core one will be reached. Making non-server software take advantage of 16+ cores it not going to be a cakewalk. There are all sorts of techs in the line that will once again start raising the processing power of individual cores.

Outside of video & visualisation there aren't even that many professional fields that are going to take advantage of 8 cores. When it comes down to it most people aren't compressing 1080p or doing digital composite renders in Shake. I know plenty who are and they're gagging at the bit but for most graphic designers, coders, most sound people etc, the use is going to be relatively limited. I mean Christ matlab is only in beta on Intel.

There's something amusing about this OMG I have a powerful machine crowd. When it comes down to it I wonder what percentage of you make your daily bread on it and what percentage just have too much money because I know a heck of a lot of extremely talented professionals who make one sweet ****load of money on hardware that most of you would think antiquated. Want a really extreme example? Saw Kerr | Noble last week, one of the top graphic design duos in London, their work is in the design museum, they win awards by the bucketload. One of their laptops runs OS9.
 
jaguarx said:
There's something amusing about this OMG I have a powerful machine crowd. When it comes down to it I wonder what percentage of you make your daily bread on it and what percentage just have too much money because I know a heck of a lot of extremely talented professionals who make one sweet ****load of money on hardware that most of you would think antiquated. Want a really extreme example? Saw Kerr | Noble last week, one of the top graphic design duos in London, their work is in the design museum, they win awards by the bucketload. One of their laptops runs OS9.
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You said it man. That's exactly what I wonder when I see people posting what they ordered "minutes ago" on the online store. I mean, I'm happy for you and all, but some people on here just sound like they buy stuff because they are bored and maybe this will qualify for internet conversations for at least a week or something. I run an old g4 for video editing and graphics - for stuff you see on tv - and only want to get an intel mac so I can run windows to play games and not have to have a second box in my work area.

If you're not making you're living on your mac pro, then you're just rich.
 
Making A Living Or Rich? Fly Out & See How Rich I'm Not Making Living With 8-Core MP

prograham said:
You said it man. That's exactly what I wonder when I see people posting what they ordered "minutes ago" on the online store. I mean, I'm happy for you and all, but some people on here just sound like they buy stuff because they are bored and maybe this will qualify for internet conversations for at least a week or something. I run an old g4 for video editing and graphics - for stuff you see on tv - and only want to get an intel mac so I can run windows to play games and not have to have a second box in my work area.

If you're not making you're living on your mac pro, then you're just rich.
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Really? Since when is making a living with an 8-Core Mac Pro a prerequisite for owning one or otherwise one is rich? I'm sure as hell not rich nor am I making a living with any of them. So I can attest to being an example of an exception to your "rule". :( I'm sure I'm not the only non-rich person here who is also not making a living with their Mac Pro.

Just because I have the money saved up for an 8-Core Mac Pro does not mean I have to make a living with it after I get it. It also does not mean I'm rich. Where do you get off telling all of us who we are and what our motivations are and what our economic status is? I invite you to fly out here to Northern California and come to Santa Cruz so you can see how "rich" I am not making a living with my 8-Core Mac Pro. :eek:
 
People are different and have different tastes. You absolutely cannot judge someone just becuase they have a Mac Pro or not! Or whether they make a Pro Living or not! That's just being biased. Free will I say.

Some people like to have to have the best (example movie: About a Boy) which. I'm not one of them but I respect that. Some people use it for their work becuase they are Pro users - fine again. And some people either buy the Mac Pro becuase they require the ability of expansion or room in the Mac Pro, or a choice of a better graphic card, more RAM, or they need to run more then 1 display.

The reasons are multifull but you can't just judge people or generalise or see things stereotypically. I mean I know some talented people that create beautiful b/w shots still using SLR camera's from the 1970's and chose not to go DSLR I understand that but then again there are also some very fine photgraphers in Digital.

In essence the Mac Pro is a tool and everyone needs to understand that. Its the way that you use it that makes the difference but you can't judge people because they don't need it or don't fit your idea of understanding :rolleyes:
 
yipster222 said:
It would be nice but I do not seeing it happening because the kentsfield cpu combined with ddr2 will be much faster than a woodcrest fb-ddr2. FB-DDR2 is slower than DDR2.
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Bad mistake here: Intel had a reason to use FB memory instead of DDR2. While DDR2 has better latency and therefore gives better single-task performance, Intel needed RAM that can accept being hammered by eight cores simultaneously. That's where FB memory is better, it can sustain high bandwidth when accessing memory at different locations (different processors will obviously read from different memory locations).
 
ironjaw I think you missed my point slightly. There are a lot of people who feel they need to have the most powerful computer for some reason. I don't think most of them really do, that's all. The same way people drive 'off-road' SUVs round the suburbs.

To put it another way, I understand that the Mac Pro is a tool, but some people buy a 1000W hammer drills when what they need is a screwdriver and I find that a bit silly.
 
prograham said:
You said it man. That's exactly what I wonder when I see people posting what they ordered "minutes ago" on the online store. I mean, I'm happy for you and all, but some people on here just sound like they buy stuff because they are bored and maybe this will qualify for internet conversations for at least a week or something. I run an old g4 for video editing and graphics - for stuff you see on tv - and only want to get an intel mac so I can run windows to play games and not have to have a second box in my work area.

If you're not making you're living on your mac pro, then you're just rich.
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That's a really short-sighted way to look at people and their system purchases. Very biased. How do you define "rich"? And there's plenty of people who will buy the Mac Pro (and have already done so) who do not use it to make a living... The same goes for all those high-end gaming PCs that sell like crazy. Systems from Alienware, VoodooPC, Dell, etc.. $5K is nothing on a high-end gaming rig. Some people have hobbies too. I know several who have bought the Mac Pro because it's actually a bargain for them -- it runs OSX, Windows and Linux (legally and very well too). It's no more expensive than comparable hardware from other vendors like Dell or HP. Some applications such as Aperture, Final Cut Studio, various 3D softwares run a heck of a lot better on a Mac Pro than they do on an iMac. Not that an iMac is bad or even an older G4 like you have, but don't go labeling people as "rich" or saying that there's no point to their purchase if they don't make money with it. There's a lot more to life and a person's tases, hobbies, activities than just making money or putting up with a slow-ass G4 system.

I know several graphic designers who still work on G4 systems and I ask them why every now and then. A few of them smirk and reply with "because I'm paid by the hour" a few others just don't care because the system isn't the bottleneck in their workflow. For me, I do make a living with my systems and they can't be fast enough. How do you do serious video work on a G4? Honestly, with everything going HD and the need to author ever more complex DVD projects for most clientele, how can people do it? I wouldn't have the patience... But that's just me...
 
jaguarx said:
ironjaw I think you missed my point slightly. There are a lot of people who feel they need to have the most powerful computer for some reason. I don't think most of them really do, that's all. The same way people drive 'off-road' SUVs round the suburbs.

To put it another way, I understand that the Mac Pro is a tool, but some people buy a 1000W hammer drills when what they need is a screwdriver and I find that a bit silly.
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in that case I agree with you. Its true just like the kid from Apple Discussions I was talking about. Completely nutter! (can you say that here?)

I think there is a word we call them - tech junkies. But hey I love tech and gadgets as well. :D
 
Just out of curiousity if MONEY was not object. What would you go for, what kind of setup?

I wanna see the hipocracy come out :p

Me? Mac Pro 3 GHz, Mac Mini, Sony Bravia 42" TV, Xserve and RAID - all to collect my entire DVD and music collection and full backup etc. so that I never need to worry so much about losing my data.

And a new car.
 
jaguarx said:
ironjaw I think you missed my point slightly. There are a lot of people who feel they need to have the most powerful computer for some reason. I don't think most of them really do, that's all. The same way people drive 'off-road' SUVs round the suburbs.

To put it another way, I understand that the Mac Pro is a tool, but some people buy a 1000W hammer drills when what they need is a screwdriver and I find that a bit silly.
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That's the way it is and always will be.. Everyone's happy (Supplier, consumer) the only pain thats felt lies within the jelous.

Boy oh boy.. yippi yippi yap yap

It's funny how the thread stresses & loses good conversation as the days near the next rumor/release date.

; )
 
Octobot said:
That's the way it is and always will be.. Everyone's happy (Supplier, consumer) the only pain thats felt lies within the jelous.; )
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I think your right! Jelousy and envy I guess

But do remember the Mac Pro is like Mercedes Benz - affordable only to few (well you can save money for it) but when driven no one wants to go back to their old car - the feel is utterly different :D
 
Wish I Didn't Need 8 Cores. Unfortunately I Do To The Tune Of Over $4k

jaguarx said:
ironjaw I think you missed my point slightly. There are a lot of people who feel they need to have the most powerful computer for some reason. I don't think most of them really do, that's all. The same way people drive 'off-road' SUVs round the suburbs.

To put it another way, I understand that the Mac Pro is a tool, but some people buy a 1000W hammer drills when what they need is a screwdriver and I find that a bit silly.
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I sure wish I didn't need an 8-core Mac Pro to do the video compression work I do. It's going to be the most expensive Mac I've ever had to buy. I find it kind of ironic that my application is so mundane that on the surface you would think I was the last person who needed 8-cores. But when you look a little closer, you see I do in spite of the inanity of the "simple" applicaitons I need it for. It's almost embarrassing.

Oh I almost forgot, I will also be running the full Final Cut Studio suite for HDV projects on it. :p

One More Week Gang.
 
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