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Jyby

Suspended
May 31, 2011
720
617
They can use QQ or iMessage.

QQ is owned by Tencent, same as WeChat.

So again, it doesn't help with "national security" one bit.

I have a lot of Chinese and Chinese American friends- none of them are using QQ and iMessage to chat. They use WeChat. Again idk where you get this information from. I think you underestimate how many people use WeChat
 
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JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
12,703
23,708
I have a lot of Chinese and Chinese American friends- none of them are using QQ and iMessage to chat. They use WeChat. Again idk where you get this information from. I think you underestimate how many people use WeChat

Due to regional restrictions, Americans don't even have access to 1/10 of the features of WeChat. Please don't tell me how much I know.
 

Avatarshark

macrumors regular
Sep 22, 2012
176
9
The Digital Frontier
Then Apple should start treating it as a business disadvantage and relocate their headquarters elsewhere, like Switzerland, for example. ?

It doesn't matter where your headquarters is located. If Apple intents to sell phones in US, US division have to abide by US laws. Just like any US companies that operate in Canada, Canadian division have to abide by Canadian laws.

You can't just say we are based in Switzerland therefore screw US laws
 

Jyby

Suspended
May 31, 2011
720
617
Due to regional restrictions, Americans don't even have access to 1/10 of the features of WeChat. Please don't tell me how much I know.

Again if that were true. People use wechat a lot in the Us
 

Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
15,731
11,076
Until Trump makes Android do the same.
Yea I'm kinda struggling to understand this. Why would the ban only apply to iOS devices? Wouldn't Android be affected too? Or does it depend on the manufacturer?
Yeah, but Chinese users dont have google play store access anyway so it doesn’t matter, and for reasons stated by other members too.
 
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foobarbaz

macrumors 6502a
Nov 29, 2007
886
2,055
Let’s say the courts don’t stop this unlawful prosecution...

It will be very interesting what Apple is more willing to do: Lose basically all sales in china, or allow sideloading
 

JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
12,703
23,708
It doesn't matter where your headquarters is located. If Apple intents to sell phones in US, US division have to abide by US laws. Just like any US companies that operate in Canada, Canadian division have to abide by Canadian laws.

You can't just say we are based in Switzerland therefore screw US laws

Of course it matters where the HQ is located.

For example, ARM is HQ'ed in the UK. As a result, it doesn't have to listen to the U.S. about technology restrictions.

Qualcomm however, cannot sell to Huawei. As a result, Qualcomm is lobbying to change that.
 

Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
15,731
11,076
Oh well. I am fine without WeChat, but not so much for lots of other people. With all the tension between US and China nowadays, ditching iPhone is far easier than ditching WeChat for normal Chinese.

Not sure where the “no WeChat no social score” comes from, but that sounds scary.

When will Trump stop damaging the world?
 
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az431

Suspended
Sep 13, 2008
2,131
6,122
Portland, OR
Then Apple should start treating it as a business disadvantage and relocate their headquarters elsewhere, like Switzerland, for example. ?

Sure, Apple will just pack up 150,000 people, liquidate all their office and retail real estate holdings in the US, close all US factories, and move to Switzerland.

Great idea. Let us know when you solve cold fusion and cure cancer.
 

The Phazer

macrumors 68040
Oct 31, 2007
3,001
956
London, UK
Pretty sure Android is licensed. Not sure they have perpetual licenses but they all seem to be updating to the newer Android OS.. So Google could pull the plug on those Chinese companies for Android. So could Microsoft.

It is not. Android is open source. Anyone can take it and fork it without Google's permission. Google is certainly a major driver of the main Android fork, but they are not the only one (Sony wrote fairly significant parts of AOSP's codebase, and most of it derives from Linux ultimately).

Amazon's FireOS is an Android operating system but isn't in any way licensed by Google (do you really think Google would license it to Amazon to build a competing OS that's more successful, but makes Google no money and actively blocked some Google apps like YouTube if they owned it???).

It definitely works that way... first headline I got for Huawei Android:”[Update 14: Temporary License Extended Again] Google has revoked Huawei’s Android license”

This headline refers to the closed source Google Play Services and Google Play Store libraries that were distributed to Huawei for their European devices. Those libraries weren't used in China anyway as Google doesn't have permission to operate in China from the Chinese government. And Huawei have continued to release Android phones in Europe since it happened, they just don't use the additional Google libraries.
 
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alpi123

macrumors 68020
Jun 18, 2014
2,023
3,376
Surveys tell you one thing, but it's a different thing how many in reality would actually give up their iPhones.
I'm 99% sure it's as easy to just switch to another app.
 
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Jyby

Suspended
May 31, 2011
720
617
The Android source code is open source. That's why Huawei continues to use Android today.

The Play Store and Google Services are licensed.

Yup. But you didn’t know there is Android open source project and closed sources project. All the big Android players use Android closed source which is licensed by Google. It’s why they get all the cool stuff... The open source is like 70% of the features of the closed source.
 

iReality85

macrumors 65816
Apr 29, 2008
1,107
2,380
Upstate NY
because you can barely do anything without this App and if you cannot do the most basic things you may end up with a bad "social score" which as a result does not allow you to buy plane tickets anymore and so on.

That honestly sounds awful. Everything in society being based around one, single monopolistic app? No thanks.

The Chinese government has banned all major social media networks and from what I've read seems to be okay with WeChat because they use it for mass surveillance of their citizens.

Exactly right.
 

joeblow7777

macrumors 604
Sep 7, 2010
7,083
8,857
... Why wouldn't you just download a different app...

I think you are seriously underestimating how integral that app is in China. It’s basically the messaging app that everyone uses, it’s a social media platform, does mobile payments, and probably more.

I see iPhone users on this forum say that they are tied to iPhones just because they can’t give up iMessage. WeChat is much more integral to these users than iMessage. For many, it is literally the only reason they own a smartphone.

People who are saying they can just use another app are not getting it. This app matters more than the hardware. If a potato could run WeChat people in China would choose them over an iPhone that doesn’t.
 
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Jyby

Suspended
May 31, 2011
720
617
It is not. Android is open source. Anyone can take it and fork it without Google's permission. Google is certainly a major driver of the main Android fork, but they are not the only one (Sony wrote fairly significant parts of AOSP's codebase, and most of it derives from Linux ultimately).

Amazon's FireOS is an Android operating system but isn't in any way licensed by Google (do you really think Google would license it to Amazon to build a competing OS that's more successful, but makes Google no money and actively blocked some Google apps like YouTube if they owned it???).



This headline refers to the closed source Google Play Services and Google Play Store libraries that were distributed to Huawei for their European devices. Those libraries weren't used in China anyway as Google doesn't have permission to operate in China from the Chinese government. And Huawei have continued to release Android phones in Europe since it happened, they just don't use the additional Google libraries.

There are two Android products closed and open source. Major phone companies are using and licensing the closed source android OS...Android OS has two branches. It’s not 100% open source because there is a closed source branch that is licensed all most of the major phone makers
 

burgerrecords

macrumors regular
Jun 21, 2020
222
106
It definitely works that way... first headline I got for Huawei Android:”[Update 14: Temporary License Extended Again] Google has revoked Huawei’s Android license”

Elsewhere:

“Huawei is now restricted to using the Android Open Source Project (AOSP), cutting the company off from critical Google apps and services that consumers OUTSIDE OF CHINA expect on Android devices.”

So for inside China, open source android is totally fine.
 
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GrumpyCoder

macrumors 68020
Nov 15, 2016
2,073
2,653
It doesn't matter where your headquarters is located. If Apple intents to sell phones in US, US division have to abide by US laws. Just like any US companies that operate in Canada, Canadian division have to abide by Canadian laws.

You can't just say we are based in Switzerland therefore screw US laws
Two different things. If Apple relocates, the US can’t dictate what they do. They could ban all Apple products in the US. So, bring it on and screw the US. Similar to what Steve Jobs once said, the US is like a ship with a hole in the bottom leaking water and Trump is doing a great job pointing it in the right direction (down). With the US under Trump becoming something worse than China and Russia, Apple should seriously think about relocating, and while they’re at it convince MS, Google, Facebook, Twitter and all the others to do the same. If that would happen, Trump would change in a heartbeat. Then again, all he’s interest in is total power, so maybe it’s easier to ship him off to North Korea. I bet he and Kim would be new best friends. With some luck, this could all be over soon and we could go back to normal, November will tell.
 

Jyby

Suspended
May 31, 2011
720
617
Elsewhere:

“Huawei is now restricted to using the Android Open Source Project (AOSP), cutting the company off from critical Google apps and services that consumers OUTSIDE OF CHINA expect on Android devices.”

So for inside China, open source android is totally fine.

It’s not just that- they lost contact with Google and the AOSP is not the same as the closed source project. Plus they dont get all the new Android stuff unless Google decides to open source those features.
 
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