Other A Foldable iPhone will Flop

[Pbwallstreet]

Why would Samsung want to produce and sell 7 generations of foldable smartphones?

Why does anyone develop and sell anything? Obviously Samsung didn't know what the result of the product would be, and after 7 generations, it's still niche. Lots of tech companies try things and put out products over a period of years that end up failing. Segway, 3D TVs, etc.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

It's more so that you can continue your quest to prove that your opinion (and it is an opinion) is the only one that could possibly be right. Your dozens of messages prove you only have 1 goal, to prove to yourself that you are right.

There have been more than enough logical responses and reasons that you have closed your mind to. There is no point in arguing with someone like you, because the outcome is pre-determined. Not worth our time.

I don't think my opinion is the only one that is right. I am having a discussion and right now, nobody has articulated the why.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

The problem here is the why. Why would someone want to convert a product into another product category and in so doing, that product with a primary purpose of in this case a smartphone becomes compromised. The same thing applies to laptops converting to tablets, or cars converting to planes, or watches converting to helicopters, etc. Primary purpose becomes compromised.

People use smartphones because they are portable and they have defined use cases. That is a fundamental aspect of why people use them. A smartphone is resilient in its form factor like a desktop is. In the case of a smartphone, the screen, the 'computer', and the input modality is wrapped up into one device that can be held and used with just one hand. With desktops, an over 50 year old technology, the mouse and bitmap screen are resilient where the input mode is precise down to 1 pixel and the screens can be much larger and compute power significantly more. Each have their use cases.

People using smartphones on planes, trains, buses, waiting in line somewhere, plugging into their car for Carplay, sitting on the couch watching a movie and surfing the web, etc. As soon as something like a foldable smartphone unfolds, it changes into a tablet. And a tablet can't reliably be used with one hand, and it takes significantly more effort for a User to input into it, as the arms and hands have to travel farther to hit targets on screen. This reality is aside from the many compromises a foldout tablet would be like.

The point is that there are categories of products for a reason. The right tool for the job. The central point I'm making is that dedicated devices like smartphones and tablets won't be replaced by foldable smartphones and foldable smartphones will end up being niche.

 

[foggygray]

My guess is it’ll be a niche. I’m not interested personally because I don’t particularly like convergence type devices.

Personally I’m looking forward to the outrage on these forums when someone cracks their iPhone fold in half.

 

[ayephoner]

Why does anyone develop and sell anything? Obviously Samsung didn't know what the result of the product would be, and after 7 generations, it's still niche. Lots of tech companies try things and put out products over a period of years that end up failing. Segway, 3D TVs, etc.

yes, but they've sold millions and millions of foldable phones. I doubt segways or 3d tvs have sold millions.

 

[JPack]

The problem here is the why. Why would someone want to convert a product into another product category and in so doing, that product with a primary purpose of in this case a smartphone becomes compromised. The same thing applies to laptops converting to tablets, or cars converting to planes, or watches converting to helicopters, etc. Primary purpose becomes compromised.

People use smartphones because they are portable and they have defined use cases. That is a fundamental aspect of why people use them. A smartphone is resilient in its form factor like a desktop is. In the case of a smartphone, the screen, the 'computer', and the input modality is wrapped up into one device that can be held and used with just one hand. With desktops, an over 50 year old technology, the mouse and bitmap screen are resilient where the input mode is precise down to 1 pixel and the screens can be much larger and compute power significantly more. Each have their use cases.

People using smartphones on planes, trains, buses, waiting in line somewhere, plugging into their car for Carplay, sitting on the couch watching a movie and surfing the web, etc. As soon as something like a foldable smartphone unfolds, it changes into a tablet. And a tablet can't reliably be used with one hand, and it takes significantly more effort for a User to input into it, as the arms and hands have to travel farther to hit targets on screen. This reality is aside from the many compromises a foldout tablet would be like.

The point is that there are categories of products for a reason. The right tool for the job. The central point I'm making is that dedicated devices like smartphones and tablets won't be replaced by foldable smartphones and foldable smartphones will end up being niche.

Your premise is basically, foldables can’t be used by one hand and people only want to use one hand.

It’s completely debunked by the popularity of phablets since iPhone 6 Plus. And the fact that foldables have a large outer display for single hand use.

 

[blairh]

The problem here is the why. Why would someone want to convert a product into another product category and in so doing, that product with a primary purpose of in this case a smartphone becomes compromised. The same thing applies to laptops converting to tablets, or cars converting to planes, or watches converting to helicopters, etc. Primary purpose becomes compromised.

People use smartphones because they are portable and they have defined use cases. That is a fundamental aspect of why people use them. A smartphone is resilient in its form factor like a desktop is. In the case of a smartphone, the screen, the 'computer', and the input modality is wrapped up into one device that can be held and used with just one hand. With desktops, an over 50 year old technology, the mouse and bitmap screen are resilient where the input mode is precise down to 1 pixel and the screens can be much larger and compute power significantly more. Each have their use cases.

People using smartphones on planes, trains, buses, waiting in line somewhere, plugging into their car for Carplay, sitting on the couch watching a movie and surfing the web, etc. As soon as something like a foldable smartphone unfolds, it changes into a tablet. And a tablet can't reliably be used with one hand, and it takes significantly more effort for a User to input into it, as the arms and hands have to travel farther to hit targets on screen. This reality is aside from the many compromises a foldout tablet would be like.

The point is that there are categories of products for a reason. The right tool for the job. The central point I'm making is that dedicated devices like smartphones and tablets won't be replaced by foldable smartphones and foldable smartphones will end up being niche.

How do you not realize the value of a smartphone screen turning into a tablet? And please spare me that it’s going to be a compromised tablet. The rumored folding iPhone is essentially a landscape iPad mini when unfolded. I see no comprises on that front.

And the plane example is perfect. All I see is tons of people watching video on their small smartphones in landscape mode. Of course it’s going to be far better to watch on a folding iPhone.

 

[JPack]

My guess is it’ll be a niche. I’m not interested personally because I don’t particularly like convergence type devices.

Man, the irony of reading that in an iPhone forum. 🤣

 

[Pbwallstreet]

Your premise is basically, foldables can’t be used by one hand and people only want to use one hand.

It’s completely debunked by the popularity of phablets since iPhone 6 Plus. And the fact that foldables have a large outer display for single hand use.

No, my central thesis isn't just that a tablet can't be used with one hand. My point is that a smartphone is an inflection point: it has so much utility because there are many use cases for it as a portable computing device that it has become a tool that is in the pocket of almost every adult in the developed world.

One handed use is one aspect of the utility of a smartphone; for desktops, a key aspect is the precise input device like a mouse down to 1 pixel on a desktop. The other part of what I have been pointing out is that creating a foldable smartphone compromises the smartphone part of the device and compromises the tablet part of the device, and that there aren't clear use cases of why someone would want to convert a smartphone into a tablet. They are both different categories of devices. People use a smartphone because that is what the use case calls for. People use a tablet because that is what the use case calls for. They are not the same category of device. And it has to compete with tablets and smartphones that aren't compromised.

 

[GioGiusi]

How do you not realize the value of a smartphone screen turning into a tablet?

It's so obnoxious to keep reading this.

1. It doesn't turn into a tablet. It turns into a bigger phone. A tablet smaller than 10" has no tablet utility at all. If you don't know what I mean by tablet utility, I'm not going to explain it to you.

2. A phone turning into a tablet isn't such a benefit that it outweighs all of the dramatic tradeoffs required to get there (today). Maybe one day those tradeoffs will be less, so that it makes the product seem acceptable. But today, it means a worse phone and a worse tablet, for more money.

You don't need to keep explaining to people this hypothetical concept of PHONE BECOMES TABLET GOOD. No one needs that explained to them. You have to demonstrate how that is SO HOLY SHT OMG IMPORTANT that it justifies the massive trade offs require to achieve (today).

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Let's do another thought together. For those of you who believe a foldable smartphone would sell well... or that it is something that you think many people want... why not apply the same thought process and beliefs to a laptop? So if you believe in such a form factor of a convertible device like a smartphone to a tablet, why not a convertible laptop into a tablet? So something like a 13.5" MacBook Air that is convertible into a tablet where the screen folds back on itself or can detach.

Uh, I don’t know if you have been paying attention to Apple rumors, but…

Apple's All-Screen Foldable MacBook: What We Know So Far

Apple is experimenting with various devices with foldable displays, including a MacBook. You might immediately want to point out that the MacBook is...

www.macrumors.com

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Your premise is basically, foldables can’t be used by one hand and people only want to use one hand.

It’s completely debunked by the popularity of phablets since iPhone 6 Plus. And the fact that foldables have a large outer display for single hand use.

I was gonna say, this person clearly hasn’t been paying attention.
Between 2012 and 2024, the top of the line iPhone’s screen has grown, from 3.5 inches, to 3.95, to 5.5, to 5.8, to 6.5, to 6.7, and most recently to 6.9.
Especially in international markets outside of the United States, where it is a lot more likely for a person to have one device that they do everything with, the want and need for the biggest screen possible in the smallest form factor possible is pretty much never ending.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

I don't think my opinion is the only one that is right. I am having a discussion and right now, nobody has articulated the why.

And that is simply just your opinion, I’ve seen plenty of extremely valid responses that you just toss aside because you don’t like them.

 

[JPack]

No, my central thesis isn't just that a tablet can't be used with one hand. My point is that a smartphone is an inflection point: it has so much utility because there are many use cases for it as a portable computing device that it has become a tool that is in the pocket of almost every adult in the developed world.

One handed use is one aspect of the utility of a smartphone, and so is a precise input device like a mouse down to 1 pixel on a desktop. The other part of what I have been pointing out is that creating a foldable smartphone compromises the smartphone part of the device and compromises the tablet part of the device, and that there aren't clear use cases of why someone would want to convert a smartphone into a tablet. They are both different categories of devices. People use a smartphone because that is what the use case calls for. People use a tablet because that is what the use case calls for. They are not the same category of device. And it has to compete with tablets and smartphones that aren't compromised.

Plenty of people carry both an iPhone and an iPad on the go. This is because there are many situations that make a tablet more suitable. If someone needs to edit a document, watch a long video, or perform detailed Internet searches, the iPad works better.

Compromises always exist. It's about the net benefits. A smartphone compromises on the weight and size compared to iPod. The keyboard sucks compared to a MacBook. A foldable allows for far better productivity and media consumption.

 

[HuskerNKS]

Plenty of people carry both an iPhone and an iPad on the go. This is because there are many situations that make a tablet more suitable. If someone needs to edit a document, watch a long video, or perform detailed Internet searches, the iPad works better.

Compromises always exist. It's about the net benefits.

Great point. The smartphone itself is a compromise. Are there better stand alone cameras, yep. Are there better stand alone computers, yep. But the benefit of a single device outweighs the compromise. Now enter other devices that take that same approach, like a foldable you can consume content on a bigger screen. Are there compromises, yep. Are you ok with that? That's up to you...

 

[JPack]

It's so obnoxious to keep reading this.

1. It doesn't turn into a tablet. It turns into a bigger phone. A tablet smaller than 10" has no tablet utility at all. If you don't know what I mean by tablet utility, I'm not going to explain it to you.

2. A phone turning into a tablet isn't such a benefit that it outweighs all of the dramatic tradeoffs required to get there (today). Maybe one day those tradeoffs will be less, so that it makes the product seem acceptable. But today, it means a worse phone and a worse tablet, for more money.

You don't need to keep explaining to people this hypothetical concept of PHONE BECOMES TABLET GOOD. No one needs that explained to them. You have to demonstrate how that is SO HOLY SHT OMG IMPORTANT that it justifies the massive trade offs require to achieve (today).

You don't need to explain it to anybody here, you should explain your revelation to Apple.

Tell them why the iPad mini they've been selling for over a decade has no utility at all.

 

[Ludatyk]

1. It doesn't turn into a tablet. It turns into a bigger phone. A tablet smaller than 10" has no tablet utility at all. If you don't know what I mean by tablet utility, I'm not going to explain it to you.

The idea of it turning into a tablet is to provide a different experience from the smartphone… not sure why you don’t understand that part of it. It’s not necessarily a bigger phone.. there are features exclusive to a tablet like the ability to multitask.

2. A phone turning into a tablet isn't such a benefit that it outweighs all of the dramatic tradeoffs required to get there (today). Maybe one day those tradeoffs will be less, so that it makes the product seem acceptable. But today, it means a worse phone and a worse tablet, for more money.

Strangely how you can look at the Fold 7 and call it a worse phone & tablet… have you actually went out and seen it yourself?

 

[Parowdy]

You think chromebooks count as a failure? That's wild. They are great devices and are still very popular.

I said OP can, not that I do. That’s why I gave it credit for selling well. I do dislike them, as I dislike Google and Chrome, but that’s just my opinion.
A folding iPhone will sell just as well as the best selling Chrome Book, some Lenovo with more than 3m units in 6 months.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Strangely how you can look at the Fold 7 and call it a worse phone & tablet… have you actually went out and seen it yourself?

I have noticed almost every folding phone doubter on this thread have refused to even acknowledge the existence of the ZFold 7.
Likely because they know for a fact that it invalidates the majority of their arguments, given that it’s basically the same thickness as an iPhone Pro and even lighter, it’s pretty much indistinguishable from any regular phone when closed but opens into a decently sized tablet, and it’s a Samsung product which really bring out the “Apple would never, Steve would never” crowd, the strange bunch.
And to be fair, most of the time I am a part of that bunch. I am no Samsung fan, but I have no idea how anyone can look at both the ZFold 7, and more importantly, the reception to the ZFold 7, and not conclude that the thing is anything but a home run.

 

[macbookj0e]

I agree with the OP however would be interested in an iPhone “flip”.

That way I can keep my 6.3 inch screen and have it half the size in my pocket.

Not so interested in a “fold”.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

I have noticed almost every folding phone doubter on this thread have refused to even acknowledge the existence of the ZFold 7.
Likely because they know for a fact that it invalidates the majority of their arguments, given that it’s basically the same thickness as an iPhone Pro and even lighter, it’s pretty much indistinguishable from any regular phone when closed but opens into a decently sized tablet, and it’s a Samsung product which really bring out the “Apple would never, Steve would never” crowd, the strange bunch.
And to be fair, most of the time I am a part of that bunch. I am no Samsung fan, but I have no idea how anyone can look at both the ZFold 7, and more importantly, the reception to the ZFold 7, and not conclude that the thing is anything but a home run.

There are so many fallacies in people's reasoning on this thread. The point about a foldable smartphone being thicker and heavier as I have mentioned is that is in relation to what the current technology enables. For instance, the iPhone Air. And the tablet portion has a plastic screen, and an awkward aspect ratio.

 

[HuskerNKS]

There are so many fallacies in people's reasoning on this thread. The point about a foldable smartphone being thicker and heavier as I have mentioned is that is in relation to what the current technology enables. For instance, the iPhone Air. And the tablet portion has a plastic screen, and an awkward aspect ratio.

Here we go again. Everyone else is wrong except OP...haha. 😉

**Edit**. Ignore me, I am just trolling you.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

A foldable iPhone will flop.

The big thing is that there are two different types of "foldable phone", and it will depend entirely on which one Apple chooses, and how well the execute.

1. "Normal size phone when open, folds down to be extra small for storage". These are a really niche market. I suppose if you really want a "max" size phone, but don't want it to take up as much storage space, maybe. But it's still just as wide, just not as tall when folded. And this style has serious battery compromises, even more than the iPhone Air. Especially if you want it thin when folded.

2. "Normal size phone when closed, folds open to be a small tablet." This is where I think Apple could shine. iPhone Pro size when closed, with some "Air inspired" thinness to make it barely thicker than Pro when closed. Then it opens up to be a full-featured iPad mini Pro. All the features of an iPad Pro, in mini size.

Yeah, it's still a niche market, but #2 is the only one I'd even consider from Apple. Super-extreme bonus points if it's a "double-fold" like the Huawei Mate XT and ends up "full iPad size" when open. Gimme an iPhone Pro and an iPad Pro in one device.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

The big thing is that there are two different types of "foldable phone", and it will depend entirely on which one Apple chooses, and how well the execute.

1. "Normal size phone when open, folds down to be extra small for storage". These are a really niche market. I suppose if you really want a "max" size phone, but don't want it to take up as much storage space, maybe. But it's still just as wide, just not as tall when folded. And this style has serious battery compromises, even more than the iPhone Air. Especially if you want it thin when folded.

2. "Normal size phone when closed, folds open to be a small tablet." This is where I think Apple could shine. iPhone Pro size when closed, with some "Air inspired" thinness to make it barely thicker than Pro when closed. Then it opens up to be a full-featured iPad mini Pro. All the features of an iPad Pro, in mini size.

Yeah, it's still a niche market, but #2 is the only one I'd even consider from Apple. Super-extreme bonus points if it's a "double-fold" like the Huawei Mate XT and ends up "full iPad size" when open. Gimme an iPhone Pro and an iPad Pro in one device.

I was thinking... Apple should make a 40 times fold smartphone so it folds out into a 40" TV. That would be cool. Could put it up on a wall in the subway while waiting for the next subway. Or at the grocery store eatery you could watch your favourite sports team while you're eating. Having a smartphone and a TV in one, and being able to bring your TV with you wherever you go has endless possibilities. I pray Apple does this. 😂

 

[Boeingfan]

So is a foldable iPhone going to be a double sized iPhone, or a foldable iPad mini?