Other A Foldable iPhone will Flop

[Arran]

You know, things have evolved in the last 10-15 years...

Yeah I was puzzled by the claim “lawyers carry bags everywhere”. Maybe in 1980’s courtroom TV dramas they do.

Nobody I know wants to carry bags everywhere - wheeled or otherwise. How is that even relevant? So many people I know, myself included, work on the go. Often there is no permanent workspace with “ideal” (i.e., compromise-free) devices set up. You work where you find yourself and try to be as effective as you can - without schlepping a whole bagful of devices everywhere.

 

[ayephoner]

I wonder if most of those sales are to school boards though. Kids view them as mandatory school tools rather than personal devices they want to use by choice. I think cheap Windows laptops along with tablets have evolved into this space. And maybe used hand me down Apple products as well. Not saying they are a failure overall though.

I'm sure, but they are popular with schools for a reason. They are very stable, very secure, very easy to wipe and reset, but at the same time very affordable. They also provide a lot of functionality for devices that mostly just run a web browser. I have owned several, as have many of my family members.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

For the exact same reason that a Mac Studio or a MacPro or an iPad Pro or an Apple Watch Ultra or whatever the latest top of the line Nvidia graphics card or a 100+ inch TV aren’t meant to reach mass adoption.
Different products for different people with different needs.
Most of Apple‘s products arguably are not targeted or have reached mass adoption. The only ones that really have are the iPhone and (maybe) the basic $300 iPad.
The Mac is getting there, but in the world of desktops and laptops, the Mac is still a small niche.
Pretty much all of their other products are only targeted at people already deep within the ecosystem (Apple TV, HomePod, Watch) or extremely limited productivity markets (MacPro, Studio, Vision Pro, FinalCut and Logic, displays).

I agree with you conceptually, but Mac is not "a small niche." Apple's Macs rank as fourth in the world in personal computer sales.

 

[Tevosn]

I won’t say 100% no, but I’m not going to pay more for it than an iPhone pro max.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Yeah I was puzzled by the claim “lawyers carry bags everywhere”. Maybe in 1980’s courtroom TV dramas they do.

Nobody I know wants to carry bags everywhere - wheeled or otherwise. How is that even relevant? So many people I know, myself included, work on the go. Often there is no permanent workspace with “ideal” (i.e., compromise-free) devices set up. You work where you find yourself and try to be as effective as you can - without schlepping a whole bagful of devices everywhere.

This. I used to schlepp a heavy photo backpack full of $10k+ of Nikon gear everywhere. The weight was not a big problem but the need for constant gear security was terribly constraining. The camera competence now available in the pocketable iPhone 17 Pros is spectacular, and frees up all kinds of opportunities. The Nikon gear remains in a secure location.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

After 7 generations they have under 2% marketshare.

?? So what? And 2% of what? Smartphone sales? If so, ~2% of ~$400 Billion USD worldwide is a very healthy $8 Billion niche IMO. Even if my admittedly coarse estimates are off by $Billions.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

IIRC the original MacBook Air 2008 was considered a flop, took them a few years for it to eventually become successful. That being said the last CEO was somewhat stubborn compared to Tim Cook.

Yup. The first MBA was unusably slow to me, but I had a coworker who was into form not function and thought it was good.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Foldables aren’t failing to exist, but after seven generations they’re still under 2% of the market because most people see the cost, bulk, durability, competition in relation to other dedicated devices etc. issues as outweighing the benefits. That’s why I call them niche rather than mainstream — they’ll sell to enthusiasts, but the average buyer keeps choosing a regular smartphone. Apple might make money on them, but that doesn’t change the reality of limited adoption.

You constantly define your own answers with ambiguous terminology.
= Meaningless.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

What problems is it solving for these people. Because someone is buying something doesn't mean that thing is solving problems for them. My point is that the foldable smartphone introduces its own set of new problems and non-folding devices are available that are better at what they do.

Why do you keep asking the same easily answered question? The problem that would be solved is having a pocketable tablet-size display.

And it should be patently obvious that although otherwise superior "non-folding devices are available" they do not fit in one's pocket. Millions of buyers will consider the value add of pocketability to be worth the compromises needed to build a foldable device.

 

[Arran]

This. I used to schlepp a heavy photo backpack full of $10k+ of Nikon gear everywhere. The weight was not a big problem but the need for constant gear security was terribly constraining. The camera competence now available in the pocketable iPhone 17 Pros is spectacular, and frees up all kinds of opportunities. The Nikon gear remains in a secure location.

Security is a biggie. No need to find creative ways to hide a computer in a vacant hotel room or a rental car (or even in a client’s office) if the computer can simply be with you everywhere.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

Arguably netbooks didn’t fail so much as they just turned into the modern ChromeBook.
Chromebooks suck, especially compared to iPads, but you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think they aren’t popular, especially in education markets.
Same goes for convertible laptops, still exist.

Netbooks didn’t really “evolve” into Chromebooks — they both ended up in the same niche: cheap, underpowered devices that never broke into the mainstream. Same with convertibles: they exist, but they never became the dominant form factor.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

I understand your argument, but let’s try to be fair with this point. Of course any iPhone cannot match an iPad Pro for productivity.

A closer and fairer comparable item would be the iPad Mini. So we have at least some cross-over potential for customers who may use both an iPhone and an iPad Mini. This would essentially be a combination device for gaming, reading, and video.

Based on this I don’t think a foldable iPhone would flop. It will never sell as well as anything in the current iPhone lineup, but sales of the device could be steady enough for Apple to keep it going as a niche product category.

There is also some potential utility for business, medical, and industrial applications.

But why would anyone in a business context use a comparatively compromised device?

 

[ZiBart]

I'm sure, but they are popular with schools for a reason. They are very stable, very secure, very easy to wipe and reset, but at the same time very affordable. They also provide a lot of functionality for devices that mostly just run a web browser. I have owned several, as have many of my family members.

No doubt. They have their benefits as a teaching tool. And for that reason, Google will keep it going even if its the least successful product they have.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

Boring, obvious observations since the commentary depends solely on the size definition of "niche," which you imply is a bad thing. The word niche is not a bad thing! And it is foolish to poll asking who intends to buy a product that has not even been announced. Any poll results are so skewed by the absurdity of the query as to be meaningless in the extreme.

• If Apple releases a foldable phone it will not flop. Some fools will call it a flop no matter what, simply by defining the size of the niche as too small to suit their own particular real-data-ignorant mindsets.

• Apple Vision Pro clearly was a success as a new technology demonstration. Yet some fools call AVP a "flop" by defining the size of the niche as too small to suit their own particular real-data-ignorant mindsets. IMO selling in excess of 100k units of a new $3,500 tech demonstration device defines a very healthy niche, so AVP is also a sales success, even though IMO the tech demo success was not dependent on sales.

Niche is a bad thing in relation to a particular company called Apple. It has been widely known and published for years that Apple has established a concrete approach to products and markets: they only want to enter markets where there is a large customer base and they can be number 1. I can only imagine how long you would last in a leadership position at Apple if you think just capturing niche markets is ok. Apple would cease to exist as we know if it thought niche was acceptable. The entire company would curtail.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

You [apparently seriously] ask: "List the reasons why someone would buy a foldable smartphone over a non-foldable one."

Umm, because some buyers like the idea of a having a tablet-sized device they can fit in their pockets. Is that not obvious?

Why do they want that?

 

[Pbwallstreet]

Why do you keep asking the same easily answered question? The problem that would be solved is having a pocketable tablet-size display.

And it should be patently obvious that although otherwise superior "non-folding devices are available" they do not fit in one's pocket. Millions of buyers will consider the value add of pocketability to be worth the compromises needed to build a foldable device.

My question is simple: why does someone want a convertible smartphone? Why and when would they use a foldable smartphone as a tablet?

 

[Pbwallstreet]

Yeah I was puzzled by the claim “lawyers carry bags everywhere”. Maybe in 1980’s courtroom TV dramas they do.

Nobody I know wants to carry bags everywhere - wheeled or otherwise. How is that even relevant? So many people I know, myself included, work on the go. Often there is no permanent workspace with “ideal” (i.e., compromise-free) devices set up. You work where you find yourself and try to be as effective as you can - without schlepping a whole bagful of devices everywhere.

1980s? Ridiculous. Lawyers have things called evidence, and Books of Authorities, etc. that are required to be in paper format in many places.

 

[digimc]

My only issue with a future, possible iPhone Fold is would you be able to put it into a case. I mean I am sure that they will sell sleeves for the Fold, but you would have to take it out of the sleeve like you would have to with an iPad. I wonder if they would be able to make a case that would also be able to open and expand with the phone. Kinda like a glove.

The only reason I bring this up is Apple is already having a big issue with scratches and dings and dents with the iPhone 17 family, even the Air is having these issue. And I am not sure that people spending close to $2,000 on a phone are going to want to use it without a case.

 

[Arran]

1980s? Ridiculous. Lawyers have things called evidence, and Books of Authorities, etc. that are required to be in paper format in many places.

That’s what trainee lawyers are for!

But tell me; Why did you focus on lawyers? It’s a bit niche.

 

[HuskerNKS]

Why do they want that?

Because they do. It's not really your concern. To each their own.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

That’s what trainee lawyers are for!

But tell me; Why did you focus on lawyers? It’s a bit niche.

I claimed lawyer posted here and I responded to him.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

Because they do. It's not really your concern. To each their own.

It is actually a central and fundamental question that serves to define why a person would want to buy and use a foldable smartphone.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

Let's do another thought together. For those of you who believe a foldable smartphone would sell well... or that it is something that you think many people want... why not apply the same thought process and beliefs to a laptop? So if you believe in such a form factor of a convertible device like a smartphone to a tablet, why not a convertible laptop into a tablet? So something like a 13.5" MacBook Air that is convertible into a tablet where the screen folds back on itself or can detach.

 

[ayephoner]

It is actually a central and fundamental question that serves to define why a person would want to buy and use a foldable smartphone.

Why would Samsung want to produce and sell 7 generations of foldable smartphones?

 

[HuskerNKS]

It is actually a central and fundamental question that serves to define why a person would want to buy and use a foldable smartphone.

It's more so that you can continue your quest to prove that your opinion (and it is an opinion) is the only one that could possibly be right. Your dozens of messages prove you only have 1 goal, to prove to yourself that you are right.

There have been more than enough logical responses and reasons that you have closed your mind to. There is no point in arguing with someone like you, because the outcome is pre-determined. Not worth our time.