Adobe Acknowledges That Apple's Flash Prohibition Could Harm Business

[HyperX13]

Anything from adobe sucks. Acrobat is junk. Photoshop is better but still not up to same quality it was (stability wise). I am just not a fan of adobe. Flash had it's run but turned into a bloated pig, just like java.

 

[ten-oak-druid]

Adobe has many fine products.

They will stick around. Flash will just not have the dominance on the web it once had.

I believe Apple wants to have another format for portable devices available on the web. We already see multiple versions of web pages optimized for smart phones and computers. Flash will still be used for browsing on a computer.

 

[cruzcj]

Since when did it become Apple's, or any company's for that matter, obligation to support the products of another company like Adobe? They took the risk developing for a platform that they had no guarantee their produce would perform on or be allowed on.

Apple could chose to discontinue the iPhone alltogether. Then it would be tough **** for whatever businesses were dependent on that. Just talk to those who used to make beta format videos or even audio cassettes or player for these formats. A thing of the past. Adapt and evolve....

 

[Jaro65]

Is this comment based on iPhone sales numbers, iPad sales numbers or iPod sales numbers? Just wondering ...

He was just looking at the market share of Macs. That is the only circumstance under which that comment may have appeared valid.

 

[Consultant]

Wow Apples good at killing things they don't believe in. How long before flash dies any guesses ? ... You should read the crazy comments on engadget.

Floppy died in 7 years. Flash? I say 5 years or sooner by the way Adobe is making Flash plugin a perpetual beta.

Since when did it become Apple's, or any company's for that matter, obligation to support the products of another company like Adobe? They took the risk developing for a platform that they had no guarantee their produce would perform on or be allowed on.

Apple could chose to discontinue the iPhone alltogether. Then it would be tough **** for whatever businesses were dependent on that. Just talk to those who used to make beta format videos or even audio cassettes or player for these formats. A thing of the past. Adapt and evolve....

And Microsoft could stop selling Windows by the way of beta format videos.

Actually, Microsoft killed Play4Sure, decade of Windows Mobile phones, etc.

 

[fat phil]

Again, this plan does NOT include an immediate solution to ALL of the Internet that has Flash all over it. Until Jobs comes up with a plan that allows Apple product users to view the entire Internet *WITHOUT PAYING EXTRA, Jobs doesn't give a damn about the customer but only the AAPL shareholder.

There's no cure for cancer either, but you know, people get on with their lives; they live with it and work around it.

Without really wanting to be an ass about it (and I can be one sometimes), it's not up to Apple or Steve Jobs or provide for everyone. When you get up in the morning, you don't plan out a list of impossible tasks to complete for the day: You plan to do the best you can in the time you have with the resources available. You try to do any more than that, and it ends up going wrong, or half-cocked. I'm pretty sure that's called common sense.

Everyone blames Apple. Have you thought to blame Adobe? Have you? Because they're no bleeding angels.

Edit: Even more...

Look, iPhone doesn't have Flash... it didn't have it two years ago. I knew that, everyone knew that. Are we all dead? Poorer? Flash-starved zombies? No, otherwise we wouldn't be hear talking about it. Maybe zombies have it easier...

 

[dsnort]

Some serious FUD in this thread

My macs always handle flash like crap and overheat and consume tons of CPU, but I was always under the impression this was more due to Apple than to Adobe and some weird restrictions on what the client can do.

It's not a "weird" restriction. Adobe seeks to achieve hardware acceleration by bypassing the API's and going directly to the CPU and RAM. Being based on UNIX, neither Mac OS nor Linux allow any program or process that level of access.

Run Windows on your Mac and Flash will not drain your battery anymore than html5 with h.264. This all comes down to Apple not giving Adobe access to APIs to utilize h.264 with Flash.

Not give access to API's? That's the whole reason for the API's to exist! How silly! Yep, someone's been drinking Kool Aid, Adobe Kool Aid!

The only reason Flash seems like a resource hog is because we're running it on a Mac. My octo-core Mac Pro with 18 gigs of RAM can't handle even the simplest flash games......... Meanwhile my 5 year old HP laptop, running Windows XP does just fine.

That's because Windows DOES allow Flash to bypass the API's. Also why Flash is a favorite malware vector on windows.

I would say with 98% of Internet acceptance (devices capable of displaying Flash content) as of last year, IT IS AN ACCEPTED STANDARD, whether SIR Stevie likes it or not.

A couple of decades ago, there was approximately 100% acceptance of floppy disks. They were a computer standard. But the computer world moved on. Then as now, there were certain knee jerk reactionary types screaming bloody murder and blaming anyone/everyone for their inability to see the future.

 

[Alaris232]

I have to admit sometimes it sucks not being able to see flash content but at the end of the day HTML5 content is so crisp, and of much higher quality! I am ready for a couple of years of transition to a new and higher standard.

 

[Speedtoy]

resource hog? ever look at what itunes rings up when its loaded?

Ok..what resources does it consume AFTER its loaded (all apps take up resources when loading dude)...go on ..how much?

Heres my system with itunes loaded and sittin there:


PID COMMAND %CPU
19296 top 9.8
376 Terminal 5.3
6424- WebKitPlugin 3.7
16556- firefox-bin 2.3 <---------------------------
0- kernel_task 1.0
5049 Safari 0.6
18917- Remote Deskt
820- Acrobat 0.2
100 WindowServer 0.0
5301- Microsoft Po
8959- Microsoft Ex
5305- Microsoft Da
19292 bash 0.0
19291 login 0.0
19286 mdworker 0.0
19258 cupsd 0.0
19205 quartz-wm 0.0
19104 X11.bin 0.0
19100 Xquartz 0.0
19099 xinit 0.0
19049 sh 0.0
18979 ssh 0.0
18976 bash 0.0
18975 login 0.0
17621 bc 0.0
17098 bash 0.0
17097 login 0.0
15995- Adium 0.0
15953 bash 0.0
15952 login 0.0
15872- GoogleSoftwa 0.0
14762 bash 0.0
14761 login 0.0
14499 telnet 0.0
14494 bash 0.0
14493 login 0.0

golly..no itunes to be seen in the first full page...


Now..note that firefox and safari are running..but I have flash blocked.

Heres the same output with flash NOT blocked in Firefox only, and ONLY looking at the cnn.com home page.



PID COMMAND %CPU
16556- firefox-bin 46.1 <---------------
6424- WebKitPlugin 5.1
0- kernel_task 2.8
100 WindowServer 2.4
1472- RealPlayer D
19104 X11.bin 0.7
5049 Safari 0.7
218 Dock 0.7
19296 top 0.6
262- RealPlayer D
820- Acrobat 0.5
18917- Remote Deskt
376 Terminal 0.2
29 mDNSResponde 0.2
28 mds 0.2
8959- Microsoft Ex
266- RPDLAgentHel 0.2
15 DirectorySer 0.2
5301- Microsoft Po
12680- iTunes 0.1 <----------------
5913 mdworker 0.0
5305- Microsoft Da
192- prl_disp_ser 0.0
15995- Adium 0.0
220 Finder 0.0
169- prl_naptd 0.0
15872- GoogleSoftwa 0.0
219 SystemUIServ 0.0
13 configd 0.0
16 distnoted 0.0
49 coreservices 0.0
260- Eye-Fi Manag
10501 Software Upd
11671 hdiejectd 0.0
18 ntpd 0.0
34 fseventsd 0.0


Wow..46%...for three small ads...better turn that off before I sterilize myself with my laptop eh?



So..instead of cherry picking all of that itunes "loading up" CPU use, whats it doing..when you're doing nothing?


Thats called objectivity, you can find it in your size at any store.

 

[*LTD*]

Since when do we have to give a **** about Abobe?

Aside from their Creative Suite (which will be unaffected), do they make devices? Do they make operating systems? Do they offer a complete hardware/software ecosystem?

No.

They just make industry-specific software. If it were all to go up in smoke tomorrow someone else would pick up the slack and life would go on. Who knows, Quark might get a second chance then. Pixelmator might be taken to the next level. The possibilities are legion.

 

[baryon]

Like VISTA did with all the XP programs? I was burned by that one. Lesson learned.

Well, when I say Windows I mean Windows XP. Vista and Win 7 are not worthy of being called operating systems. XP is a great system, but it lacks some things that are required in today's world, however, it's still perfect for most things.

 

[digiguy23]

I still don't get it. It's not just ads and cotton candy, you need flash to use certain websites. There must be alot of people who don't actually use the web.

 

[iigsie]

What an inane comment. This isn't even about running Flash on an iphone. It is about being able to run software that was originally coded in Flash and then converted to a format that would run natively on an iphone, meeting apple's previously specified requirements. Whether or not Flash is bloated has nothing to do with this.

You misread the article. This is about Apple's refusal to adopt the Flash platform on the iPhone OS. That does not exclusively mean not allowing native apps coded in Flash. 'Flash Platform' includes apps coded in Flash along with use of the plugin.

 

[irun5k]

But unlike Microsoft and their crushing of Netscape, this has almost a personal vendetta-type feel to it or something.

Well said- I think everyone knows that it is Steve Jobs who hates Flash. He is obviously all worked up over it, and it is a personal mission for him to destroy Flash. Just seems a bit odd to me that he would be so incredibly passionate about such a thing.

Of course, he hates Java too, and kept it off the iPhone. From a developer's standpoint, the fact that Android is Java is a really nice thing since the Java dev community is so large and the same code and libraries can be applied across mobile, desktop, enteprise, devices (Blu Ray, anyone?), etc.

Steve is trying to change the world by having a majority of the smartphone market and a tiny sliver of the desktop market.

 

[3460169]

Note to advertisers:

Your Flash-based ads are no longer reaching the most well-heeled customers online: 50+ million iPhone owners. They're also not hitting brand new iPad users or 35+ million iPod touch users.

No matter. iAds will make up for the lack of Flash ads.

 

[jragosta]

Must read!

http://theflashblog.com/

Sure. The best part is:
"Comments disabled as I’m not interested in hearing from the Cupertino Comment SPAM bots."

IOW, he's expressing an unfounded opinion and is afraid that if people are able to comment, the true facts will get out.

It almost never happens that the person shutting off discussion is in the right.

Some of you people really make me sick. Adobe is a huge honest company that employs thousands of people all over the world. Sure maybe they make mistakes and make some pretty bad software but they have never tried to dupe anybody or steal money from anybody. Some of you talk about Adobe as if they were Enron just because you happen to not like one of their products. Grow up.

This is a pretty inane post even for you Adobe shills.

No one is saying that Adobe executives eat babies or kick their dogs. The well-established truth is that Flash is a lousy piece of software. Apple chooses not to have lousy software on the iPhone. It's that simple.

It's only the Adobe shills who don't seem to understand that simple concept (obviously, they DO understand it, but are trying to cloud the issue with inane posts like yours)>

 

[marksman]

If I were Adobe I'd announce that CS5 will be the last Mac release. I'm betting Apple might be persuaded to change the stance on Flash.

More likely is Adobe would have to add that as another Risk factor to their report.

LOL.

 

[Speedtoy]

It wouldn't. Mac users are less then 10% of total user base worldwide.

Compared to what a year ago, 2yrs ago...etc.


Ignore statistics at your own peril.


Not to mention..its wider than the "pc"..its the ipad, iphone, itouch...


So..how large does apple look like now, in the electronic browsing market as a whole?



Reload, think it over.

 

[evilcat]

I am all for going forward with whatever is best... but until those "solutions" are in place, where does Jobs's plan leave his users? Stuck with no capability to run Flash enabled websites. We're not talking about a few ads, we're talking technologies that make up the web whether we like it or not.

Correct. I see both sides of the argument -- been building features in Flash since 2000 (Flash 4). For a while, I built whole sites in Flash, something I haven't done in 5 years. I go HTML all the way but when I need a feature it can't do, I turn to Flash.

Many fancy effects for navigation etc, are fine in jQuery and require the same level of programming as Flash, since JavaScript and ActionScript 3 are closley related.

But for an advanced animation? Has to be Flash.

And when you get to RIA then jQuery etc, while capable, are dangerous. Go to the Mini site and configure your Mini. That's a Flash app, built in Flex. Yes it could be built with jQuery but if nothing else, all the data will be exposed to the browser. That's not good if you spent a while writing the code and you don't want it ripped off.

I'm currently building a feature on a website I work on which allows the user to add characters to a product and customise them like dress-up dolls. They can move them, change them and final send the job to print. Flash was really the only options for something like that, and I decided to use Flex for the first time since it seemed appropriate. In four weeks I've gone from 0 lines of code to a working application about to enter end-to-end testing.

For all my love of web standards, and my insistence that sites should be built in HTML, this site feature could not have been made as well and as quickly any other way. Sadly, iPad, iPhone and iTouch users won't be able to use it, and there's no business justification to learn to program for those three platforms.

I say all this as someone who has Click To Flash installed in Safari on my Mac at home (because it's so power greedy) and an equivalent blocker in Firefox on my Windows PC at work. I loathe ads, banners and navigation embedded in Flash but it does have its place... till something better comes along.

 

[Ed91]

I would have to agree with you here. Except, my MBP handles Flash very well and has NEVER crashed on me.

If I'd have read this a month ago, I'd have concurred. I only ever used flash for video websites, and I couldn't understand all the fuss about Flash being buggy. However, recently I ran across a Flash-heavy web app that I have to use for work.. and.. ugh. About every minute I'd be informed that Flash had crashed, and I'd have to reload the site. Frankly, it was pathetic.

I hope Flash dies a quick (but painful) death.

 

[Darkroom]

*sigh*

 

[Ochyandkaren]

OH!, C'mon we are all grown up here!

What is the point of fighting for  or Adobe here?

1)  is rightly defending its Biz.

2) Adobe should sell Flash wisely, Why isn't doing it wisely (although Safari only handles Flash a little if not much better after Adobe bought it.)?

Why Adobe is fighting , it instead should make Flash worthy of being on the iPhone. And that as nothing to do with , but with end user satisfaction. Just make it better or Microsoft will knock you down.

3) It happens that many people does not care about Flash on their iPhones (what the numbers say?, we are talking about mobile OSs not desktops!), and if you are a Flash developer Why defend Adobe and Not your Biz?
Go ahead and be flexible, if  in the end endorses flash (Do not believe their Flash Is Not Allowed Attitude, remember Jobs said people no longer read?)

It's strange that people battle others even in detriment of their own interest, which is in this case Better/Superior user-ability.

Strange.

 

[iigsie]

How sick and twisted are some of you to want to see that many people loose their jobs just so you can get your rocks off on a BS company feud?

It's a fact that Flash is crap. Should we put up with crap just so some people keep their jobs?

 

[ranReloaded]

Actually, you've probably missed the number of times this has been said:

Apple do not provide the API for hardware acceleration that Adobe can use to make Flash more efficient.

So yes, a large part is Apple's fault. If Apple were to create the APIs necessary then we'd see a far better Flash client on the Mac. Flash works on Windows very well because Windows has the necessary API.

Well I don't see why a browser plugin should get such low level access "to the metal". And every other application is doing fine on OS X. VLC for example. The truth is adobe bet its coins on Windows and wants to get away with a quick'n'dirty port to the Mac.

 

[recif2000]

News release:

Iphone OS 5.0 will support FLASH and Java !

needless to say the upgrade is mandatory.


In order to pay respect to the Iphone I propose a massive iphone suicide event. You can step on it or blend it, regardless be swift it has got a soul... (what haven t yu seen the toy story 3 iAds)

Iphone platform R.I.P (date event to be confirmed)




by the way I totaly agree with the person who states that Apple is protecting our user experience. thx for not trying to push the Flash crapware down my throat Apple