Adobe Acknowledges That Apple's Flash Prohibition Could Harm Business

[baryon]

Since when do we have to give a **** about Abobe?

Aside from their Creative Suite (which will be unaffected), do they make devices? Do they make operating systems? Do they offer a complete hardware/software ecosystem?

No.

They just make industry-specific software. If it were all to go up in smoke tomorrow someone else would pick up the slack and life would go on. Who knows, Quark might get a second chance then. Pixelmator might be taken to the next level. The possibilities are legion.

Right, so you're saying that there's anything in the world that could even try to hope to replace Adobe Photoshop? Without Photoshop, there would be no professional digital photography today whatsoever. If Adobe would stop making applications for the Mac, the Mac platform would be gone. Macs are heavily used by professionals, and they use it for creative things, i.e. Adobe programs. If Adobe stuff only worked on Windows, all the professionals would switch to Windows in a matter of seconds. Most Adobe applications are industry standard. It is in no one's interest that Adobe and Apple go into a bad relationship.

Remember, the Mac isn't just a cool-looking, very expensive computer for rich dads who want to make cool-looking slideshows of their kids. It's also about supporting industry standards such as RAW files, Final Cut Pro, native support for PSD files, etc... All these show that Macs were made to work with creative software. Adobe is the leader and almost the only company in creative software.

Now no matter how much Apple hates Adobe on their mobile devices, they simply can't let that hatred go onto their computers, because that will be the end of Macs as creative computers. Oh right, you'll still have iPhoto

 

[woolfgang]

Comments like this are so silly when you consider that, in general, people don't want Apple (based on sales numbers).

Oh please, that's the best you can do? The reality, is that both Apple and Adobe have a part in the problem. As far as, "Based on sales number", People are lazy, and follow the trend. Each year, the % of people new to computers, and, who choose OSX over Windows increases. It won't be for awhile, but if things remain as they are, Windows is in trouble.

 

[PixelFactory]

Let's say Adobe announces that they will stop developing for the Mac platform. What will happen to the creative users. Nothing. We will continue to use the products we already have. Wo don't upgrade the instant a new version of software comes out. We would not go out and purchase new windows machines so we can run Adobe's latest and greatest. Sooner or later someone (most likely Apple) will write new software to replace what the Creative Suite does. Adobe would lose it's market share in the creative fields.

Adobe's best option is to start creating tools to develop HTML5 content.

 

[marksman]

What an inane comment. This isn't even about running Flash on an iphone. It is about being able to run software that was originally coded in Flash and then converted to a format that would run natively on an iphone, meeting apple's previously specified requirements. Whether or not Flash is bloated has nothing to do with this.

Actually this particular thread is about running flash on the iPhone. You seem to be having the wrong argument in the wrong place.

I was looking forward to CS5 and the Flash Professional being able to export to a native iPhone app.

I don't have any programming skills, but I can do a fair amount in Flash, so I was hoping to make some small apps even if just for myself / friends.

No personal offense intended, but this says all we need to say about flash.

 

[mytdave]

hogwash

It does not pose a material threat to Adobe's business. It only poses a threat to Adobe dominating the web. All Adobe needs to do is rework Flash to generate standard HTML5 code, and all the people using Flash development tools will be more than happy to continue doing so.

In fact, this could be a great benefit to Adobe if they don't act stupidly - repurpose Flash as the best HTML5 media creation tool available and they should be able to improve their bottom line.

 

[Speedtoy]

Like-wise, why should Apple have a strange-hold on digital music?
( 70% worldwide market ).

If your going to have a go at Adobe, then look at Apple too...

Are you really being so foolish, as to suggest that Apple doesnt allow anyone else to sell music?

Theres no stranglehold there, there are hundreds of choices.


Where the heck do get this 'stranglehold' stuff from?


MAYBE..Apple just does it...better? Ya think? MAYBE...?

 

[Schizoid]

(dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun)
Flash! (boom!) Aaah-aaaaaaaah!
He's Driving The Minibus..
(dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun)....

 

[iigsie]

Adobe is the leader and almost the only company in creative software.

Mainly because they bought lots of the competition.

 

[Ed91]

I would look to make it clear what is going through my mind at the moment. Go screw yourself Apple.

And.. It just got personal.

 

[JackAxe]

If I'd have read this a month ago, I'd have concurred. I only ever used flash for video websites, and I couldn't understand all the fuss about Flash being buggy. However, recently I ran across a Flash-heavy web app that I have to use for work.. and.. ugh. About every minute I'd be informed that Flash had crashed, and I'd have to reload the site. Frankly, it was pathetic.

I hope Flash dies a quick (but painful) death.

So because someone developed a crap application, flash should die? Brilliant...

 

[Speedtoy]

Jobs is a control freak!

With a damned near perfect record of products and concepts.


I agree, hes a control freak, a damned good one. And so is Warren Buffet..FREAKS!


Thanks for mentioning it!

 

[*LTD*]

Right, so you're saying that there's anything in the world that could even try to hope to replace Adobe Photoshop? Without Photoshop, there would be no professional digital photography today whatsoever. If Adobe would stop making applications for the Mac, the Mac platform would be gone. Macs are heavily used by professionals, and they use it for creative things, i.e. Adobe programs. If Adobe stuff only worked on Windows, all the professionals would switch to Windows in a matter of seconds. Most Adobe applications are industry standard. It is in no one's interest that Adobe and Apple go into a bad relationship.

Remember, the Mac isn't just a cool-looking, very expensive computer for rich dads who want to make cool-looking slideshows of their kids. It's also about supporting industry standards such as RAW files, Final Cut Pro, native support for PSD files, etc... All these show that Macs were made to work with creative software. Adobe is the leader and almost the only company in creative software.

Now no matter how much Apple hates Adobe on their mobile devices, they simply can't let that hatred go onto their computers, because that will be the end of Macs as creative computers. Oh right, you'll still have iPhoto

Life will go on.

If Adobe can't compete in one area or another, they'll simply lose in that area.

If Adobe ever yanks CS (not going to happen, but lets' just pretend) then within the span of about a few months you'd see Apple move some of that $40 billion in cash and emerge with their own competitor suite that is capable of fully supporting current workflows (or offer an even better standard) and promote the living hell out of it, or pump resources into a company ready and willing to to offer a viable competitor, and quite frankly, there is no shortage of developers who would jump on this opportunity.

Apple already offers Aperture, which has proven to be successful. And FCP and Avid split the industry between them 50/50. Apple came out of nowhere with FCP and look what they've accomplished with it.

Don't overstate Adobe's position.

 

[puffnstuff]

this has nothing to do with the web so I do not know why people keep discussing html5 in these threads this is about apps in the app store

/facepalm

 

[richardtengcy]

Right, so you're saying that there's anything in the world that could even try to hope to replace Adobe Photoshop? Without Photoshop, there would be no professional digital photography today whatsoever. If Adobe would stop making applications for the Mac, the Mac platform would be gone. Macs are heavily used by professionals, and they use it for creative things, i.e. Adobe programs. If Adobe stuff only worked on Windows, all the professionals would switch to Windows in a matter of seconds. Most Adobe applications are industry standard. It is in no one's interest that Adobe and Apple go into a bad relationship.

Remember, the Mac isn't just a cool-looking, very expensive computer for rich dads who want to make cool-looking slideshows of their kids. It's also about supporting industry standards such as RAW files, Final Cut Pro, native support for PSD files, etc... All these show that Macs were made to work with creative software. Adobe is the leader and almost the only company in creative software.

Now no matter how much Apple hates Adobe on their mobile devices, they simply can't let that hatred go onto their computers, because that will be the end of Macs as creative computers. Oh right, you'll still have iPhoto

I actually had Photoshop CS4 and Pixelmator install on my Mac and i actually used Pixelmator more than Photoshop to edit and add layers to my graphics work. There is always alternative to Adobe apps. It's all about personal preferences.

I am curious to see how the upcoming HP Slate would perform with its battery test when running Flash sites. That would gives us a rough idea why Apple ditch Flash on iPad.

 

[Friscohoya]

Funny how all of the techies complain but it seems like nobody cares about flash.

 

[*LTD*]

Jobs is a control freak!

Thank God for that.

 

[Peace]

this has nothing to do with the web so I do not know why people keep discussing html5 in these threads this is about apps in the app store

/facepalm

Ummm. You do realize the apps for the iPad use HTML5 right ?

 

[smearedblue]

Wow, do none of you know anything?

All I see here are fanatical apple fans pissing on flash. Are you people stupid?

Flash is a thousand times more robust then html 5... It's no where near being able to take over the role of flash yet. Maybe in 6-10 years. But not even close right now. Have you even tried youtube's html video? It was garbage. I switched back immediately.

Yet here you all are, bad mouthing flash because it uses more cpu then a native solution. You do realize that it accomplishes more than any native solution can provide right? You don't want it? Don't install it. Yet, there it is, with an >90% penetration rate. Seems most people want it huh?

I don't know what kind of computers you guys are using, but on my core2duo, I have no problem running 1080 video in flash. I have no problem viewing full flash websites with video and animations. I don't care if my cpu usage goes up 30%. It's supposed to be used. And flash has a huge developer base. Of course there are poorly coded flash sites, why do you think firefox just announced that plugins will fail without crashing the whole browser? Also webkit announced the same thing. It's not like it's hard to close a window.

Apple just spit in the face of open development, again. Do you honestly believe that even the complex apps recompiled in flash CS5 for the iphone wouldn't run well? Have you never downloaded an app from the app store that didn't run well? I sure have. Some never even open. You know what I do, I delete them. It's MY choice.

Not to mention, I've seen, and used apps created in flash, and converted for the iphone. They worked fine.. I don't understand this move at all. Apple has always hindered flash on the mac. And now it's gone above and beyond.

I know flash in an old technology, but for apple to choose for their customers, and then block out adobe in any way, is both childish and tyrannical. Not to mention the fact that they announce this days before CS5 launches?! WTF.. are they trying to attack adobe? This is ridiculous.

I thought the big idea here was to allow creators to easily make their content for as many systems as possible. And share it widely and freely. But apple seems to think differently.

 

[jragosta]

Correct. I see both sides of the argument -- been building features in Flash since 2000 (Flash 4). For a while, I built whole sites in Flash, something I haven't done in 5 years. I go HTML all the way but when I need a feature it can't do, I turn to Flash.

Many fancy effects for navigation etc, are fine in jQuery and require the same level of programming as Flash, since JavaScript and ActionScript 3 are closley related.

But for an advanced animation? Has to be Flash.

Did it ever occur to you to ask how it benefits the users to have some dancing, bouncing animated web page? THAT Is one of the biggest problems with Flash that seems to get lost in the shuffle. People are creating humongous, animated, annoying sites using Flash just because they can. Whatever happened to building a web site based on the content and what the consumer needed?

Right, so you're saying that there's anything in the world that could even try to hope to replace Adobe Photoshop? Without Photoshop, there would be no professional digital photography today whatsoever. If Adobe would stop making applications for the Mac, the Mac platform would be gone. Macs are heavily used by professionals, and they use it for creative things, i.e. Adobe programs. If Adobe stuff only worked on Windows, all the professionals would switch to Windows in a matter of seconds. Most Adobe applications are industry standard. It is in no one's interest that Adobe and Apple go into a bad relationship.

Remember, the Mac isn't just a cool-looking, very expensive computer for rich dads who want to make cool-looking slideshows of their kids. It's also about supporting industry standards such as RAW files, Final Cut Pro, native support for PSD files, etc... All these show that Macs were made to work with creative software. Adobe is the leader and almost the only company in creative software.

I seem to remember hearing the same thing about Lotus 123. And Word Perfect. And Premiere. And Multiplan. And dozens of other companies that built and market and then lost it due to incompetence and arrogance. For that matter, there were features where Amiga OS was MILES ahead of the competition. Where are they now?

If Adobe said that they CS 5 would be the last version for Macs, Apple could have a new photo editor out before the dust had settled on the first CS 5 boxes. And, given Apple's use of Core APIs, it would probably be vastly faster and easier to use than Photoshop. It would sure as heck be 64 bit.

Does Apple want to go there? Probably not. But don't doubt for a second that they could do it. And I don't think they'd lose that many customers (maybe even gain some-it happened with Final Cut). I know a number of professional photographers and every one that I've talked to would rather use an older version of Photoshop on the Mac than the latest on Windows. That doesn't mean that professionals wouldn't switch - some obviously already have. But the ones who are inclined to switch platforms have mostly done so already.

 

[Speedtoy]

Funny how all of the techies complain but it seems like nobody cares about flash.

Its like an old coffee commercial...

If you secretly replaced all flash content with..nothing..would anyone actually be affected in any way?


I would REALLY like to see a count of how many browsers on the 'net, use flash blocking plugins, that would be a very interesting statistic.

 

[bdkennedy1]

Get up and stretch your legs, Adobe. You've sat on your asses for years without competition. That's changing now.

For Adobe's sake, they had better be hiring developers to rewrite Flash from scratch right now. Because I guarantee that the majority of web developers are not going to choose to program in Flash over HTML 5.

As a side note, I did light programming in Flash 10 years ago and remember when I said to myself what a piece of **** this is.

When all is said and done, the world can survive without Flash. And it never contributed to anything useful on the internet but intrusive banner ads and stupid games. Flash never solved a problem, it contributed to it.

 

[baryon]

Life will go on.

If Adobe can't compete in one area or another, they'll simply lose in that area.

If Adobe ever yanks CS (not going to happen, but lets' just pretend) then within the span of about a few months you'd see Apple move some of that $40 billion in cash and emerge with their own competitor suite that is capable of fully supporting current workflows (or offer an even better standard) and promote the living hell out of it, or pump resources into a company ready and willing to to offer a viable competitor, and quite frankly, there is no shortage of developers who would jump on this opportunity.

Apple already offers Aperture, which has proven to be successful. And FCP and Avid split the industry between them 50/50. Apple came out of nowhere with FCP and look what they've accomplished with it.

Don't overstate Adobe's position.

Well maybe, but you can't know this for sure. How come no one has tried to make competition for Adobe so far whatsoever? Have we even seen someone try to make some alternative to Photoshop for example? I mean I would be happy if someone did, but it doesn't seem like anyone has the courage... Sure Aperture appeared recently to compete with Lightroom, but my opinion is that they both suck, and if Apple's version of Photoshop will be anything like that, I'm going to get depressed. But as you say, it's not likely, but I hate to see Apple hate Adobe so much when I find that they should be as close as possible as they are the two companies that deliver so many useful things to me.

For example, I don't mind that there are tensions between Apple and Google, because I don't like Google that much and they don't really do more to me than provide a good search engine and Google Maps.

But Apple can't go on hating everyone unless they have better alternatives, and so far they don't. They say HTML5 is a better alternative to Flash, well, we'll wait and see, they haven't proven that yet.

 

[jragosta]

All I see here are fanatical apple fans pissing on flash. Are you people stupid?

Flash is a thousand times more robust then html 5...

Based solely on your unsupported allegations? No thanks.

In the REAL world, Flash is responsible for 50% of crashes on Macs. It sucks CPU cycles like there's no tomorrow (why should CPU usage hit 115% on a 2.3 GHz Core 2 Duo with 4 GB of RAM - simply for loading a Flash page that isn't doing anyhing?). It is a massive security hole. It shortens battery life.

There is little, if anything, that Flash can do that html 5 can't do. Did you see Jobs' Toy Story iAd demo? Looks like the majority of things that Flash can do are already accessible with html 5 - without all the down sides.

 

[Scottsdale]

okay let's set the record straight.
Flash is the worst piece of technology which currently exist. Have you ever tried to search for "bug adobe flash" "cpu adobe flash" on google.
I believe adobe has been unable to maintain the quality of the flash framework since they acquired it from macromedia. I would also like to state that the problem is not solely a mac issue but that it is also well present on the PC platform.

The problem is so bad on my computer (compaq laptop xp 2800 1,2 G ram) that I actually planned to upgraded just for the sake of making Flash usable once again.

You have to look at the current environment. How many mobile phone operating systems actually use a fully operational Flash Framework? apparently, it is just the Pre. Others just support a Lite Framework.

Seeing how Flash is perfoming on my computer, I can't even envision what would happen on my Iphone. Personally, I think Steve Jobs' claim regarding Adobe lack of willingness to improve their platform is probably not far from the truth.

I think Adobe has been able to make enough money selling its buggy platform to global website like Youtube and that time has come for a better & open standard. While the strategy employed by Apple may seem rather brutal with regards to Adobe, I believe it is the only way to move forward which will lead us to embrace a new internet revolution: HTML 5

Why is it Flash can use 70%+ less CPU on my same Mac in Windows 7 vs. OS X Snow Leopard? Flash in itself is not a problem... Flash without proper access to the right tools is a problem. Adobe has begged Apple to let it make Flash work on OS X and iPhone OS, but Jobs doesn't like Adobe, so the customer loses out until HTML5 and better solutions are ready for customers.

 

[Ochyandkaren]

Right, so you're saying that there's anything in the world that could even try to hope to replace Adobe Photoshop? Without Photoshop, there would be no professional digital photography today whatsoever. If Adobe would stop making applications for the Mac, the Mac platform would be gone. Macs are heavily used by professionals, and they use it for creative things, i.e. Adobe programs. If Adobe stuff only worked on Windows, all the professionals would switch to Windows in a matter of seconds. Most Adobe applications are industry standard. It is in no one's interest that Adobe and Apple go into a bad relationship.

Remember, the Mac isn't just a cool-looking, very expensive computer for rich dads who want to make cool-looking slideshows of their kids. It's also about supporting industry standards such as RAW files, Final Cut Pro, native support for PSD files, etc... All these show that Macs were made to work with creative software. Adobe is the leader and almost the only company in creative software.

Now no matter how much Apple hates Adobe on their mobile devices, they simply can't let that hatred go onto their computers, because that will be the end of Macs as creative computers. Oh right, you'll still have iPhoto

UH?

Since when  hates Adobe?
Since When you cannot use Flash on the Mac
Since when it is  responsibility to fix Safari handling of Flash? Flash No Longer crash Macs, it runs better on my G4 iMac than on my Intel Core Mono IMac, why?


Adobe knows that no other company will care about its software, why Adobe gives the impression of Not caring either (or, is it Mac are minority attitude ? )?