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Adobe and Avid Target Final Cut Pro Users With 'Switcher' Discounts
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What's the reason to own a Mac, with the hardware working and being virus free, if you can't do what you want with it?
While we are at it, FCP users had to use Macs, Premiere and Avid users don't have to.
If you're talking about the FAQ they published this week, that shows nothing. They provided a bunch of workarounds (which if they're the new way to do things, then they're not an improvement), made claims that some things were coming (possibly soon or in a major update down the road), or are just letting 3rd party developers take care of the rest.
The FAQ provided more questions than answers.
autrefois
macrumors 65816
This is kind of like when Apple pwned Microsoft by coming out with the ability to open .docx on the Mac before Microsoft had their own solution. It wasn't perfect, but at least you could open and work with them. And people poked fun at Microsoft for Apple beating them to it, but it was Apple's OS after all.
Here, it's even worse IMHO. From what I understand, Apple's FCP X can't open FCP 7 projects in any way, shape, or form on *Mac* OS X, while Adobe's Premiere can if exported into XML. Again, not perfect, but at least you can open and work with them. So Adobe's latest offering on the Mac is more compatible that Apple's own offering...
It's not exactly the same situation, but it makes Apple look bad. Apple should have waited to release this until **at least** XML import/export was possible in FCP X; it looks really bad when your competitor's product can work with files created in your application and your product can't, especially on your own OS!
I'm not a FCP user, but I am a die-hard Mac user. I just hope Apple learns their lesson from this debacle and doesn't pull something like this with its other software (you would think after iMovie they would have learned...).
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Mr. Jobs THINKS the high-end editing market is not important to Apple because there are so few of them compared to those working small projects like weddings and events and you tube and corporate training video and the like. Steve is right about the numbers
Where he gets it wrong is that ..
(1) All these guys doing small projects want to move up the food chain and one day work on major motion pictures. So they want to use the same tools as the "big guys" so they can claim to have the required skills. They want to be able to say "I have been using the Industry Standard for many years" They know they will be laughed out of the interview it they claim to be an "iMovie Expert" and it looks like that same might happen to an "FCP X expert"
(2) Even those who are more realistic and even home users not working in the industry at all, when they decide what to buy that will ask "what do the pros use?" and they will buy that. Pretty much the same as when amateur photographer see all those white Canon SLR camera lenses on the sidelines of pro sports games and then decide to buy Canon themselves "becase that is what pros use." Dumb reasoning, but that's the way it works.
I think Apple has set them selves up to fail in the long run. They NEED to be seen as having Apple pro apps used by the top professionals. It's an image thing. What else does Apple have but "image". The only way to do that is to invite pros back into the software development process.
Where he gets it wrong is that ..
(1) All these guys doing small projects want to move up the food chain and one day work on major motion pictures. So they want to use the same tools as the "big guys" so they can claim to have the required skills. They want to be able to say "I have been using the Industry Standard for many years" They know they will be laughed out of the interview it they claim to be an "iMovie Expert" and it looks like that same might happen to an "FCP X expert"
(2) Even those who are more realistic and even home users not working in the industry at all, when they decide what to buy that will ask "what do the pros use?" and they will buy that. Pretty much the same as when amateur photographer see all those white Canon SLR camera lenses on the sidelines of pro sports games and then decide to buy Canon themselves "becase that is what pros use." Dumb reasoning, but that's the way it works.
I think Apple has set them selves up to fail in the long run. They NEED to be seen as having Apple pro apps used by the top professionals. It's an image thing. What else does Apple have but "image". The only way to do that is to invite pros back into the software development process.
I think if you read the latest FAQ's from Apple, they will be releasing the API's for most of the pro features to 3rd party developers. So that nice price of $299 will soon become $599....$799....$999.
Automatic Duck is $500 and yes it does all sorts of good stuff, but when you only need one feature, it looks very expensive.
I need to import subtitle files in XML. I want a free tool within FCPX to do that.
Having been an Apple user since 1998 and very happy so far, my trust in Apple has been severely dented this year. No more iWeb, no more iDisk, EOL on FCP7 and FCPX not up to snuff.
Oh yeah, completely different. Adobe wanted you to buy all new hardware when they stopped supporting Premiere on Mac for around four years, completely reasonable.
Let me get this straight, using a legacy/poorly supported app until the new one is ready for your use = bad but buying all knew pro computers or at the very least licenses for Windows and running all the computers in boot camp (assuming you even had Intel Macs and they weren't PPC because this happened even before Intel Macs existed) = completely reasonable.
Huh?
Adobe is a Windows first, Mac maybe developer. Everything is fine when the weather is sunny.
Maybe true for you but at least I have no interest in moving up the food chain. I've seen the motion picture industry and have no interest in going there.
But then how many are actually going to shell out $3000 or even just $1000 for that? People buy high end DSLRs because it's HARDWARE.
I don't see home users dropping that kind of cash for software when they can put it to better use by buying a better camera.
Unless Adobe is planning a version of Premiere at FCPX price levels I don't see how Apple should be worried about.
Yes. As has already been said here, Premiere can not only import FCP EDL's and files, it also has built-in presets for final cut 7 keyboard shortcuts.
On top of the everything the overall layout and tools and where they're located is VERY similar between Premiere 5.5 and Final Cut 6/7.
In our office it took less than an hour 10 minutes for our editors to find their effects/presets etc. and start editing.
bwhahaha....good one.
loses 10k pro whiners but gains 10 million normal ones. everybody wins.
Their image is maintained by a segment of the market that has nothing to do with FCPX and most of whom have never even heard about it: the average consumer. Apple puts Joe Average front and centre and then treats him like a VIP by selling him usable, beautiful, desirable products. These do not include Pro tools. That is the strategy. There are no lineups outside Stores for FCPX. Apple's image *used to* be maintained by Pros. Back when they weren't making any money.
Apple could cut out the Pro market entirely and continue hitting new highs every quarter, unabated. Apple's image comes from great device + great interface + robust ecosystem. Pro tools need not apply.
The "trickle down" theory that is being applied here, doesn't actually apply. Overall, Apple actually *gains* by doing this, by broadening the functionality and breadth of consumer-level apps. It paves the way for the consumer to move into the pro-sumer bracket. That's a big deal. No one else is doing this. No one else is offering this level of empowerment.
It sucks for some folks, I know, but it's true.
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Yes it can. Export XML from FCP 7, then import FCP XML in Premiere. It works remarkably well. You can even go back to FCP or to After Effects.
And why would it matter? FCP X can't even do that, and has said publicly they have no plans to. That it's too complex for them.
Really?
Why would someone switch applications if they are still not going to be able to use old projects in the new application? Whether they switch to Adobe or use FCX, they are in the same boat. I don't see people flocking to Adobe over this. I think people will find work-arounds until Apple gets their act together and fixes FCX. Stupidity on Apple's part, but then they always do this when they're trying to push the envelope.
Why would someone switch applications if they are still not going to be able to use old projects in the new application? Whether they switch to Adobe or use FCX, they are in the same boat. I don't see people flocking to Adobe over this. I think people will find work-arounds until Apple gets their act together and fixes FCX. Stupidity on Apple's part, but then they always do this when they're trying to push the envelope.
Since FCP 7 is no longer for sale, if you want to expand your company you can't If you want to start a business editing in FCP7 you can't. You could wait until the "Next Major Release" of FCX with all the pro level fixes but how long will that take?
Can FCPX import FCP7 files? If it can't what is the point?
What is the point of needing this ability? Finish your project that you started in FCP7 in FCP7. It hasn't magically disappeared from your computer. Start a new project in FCX, whenever you feel it's ready.
Well, the current tally on the app store is 429 5-star reviews vs. 639 1-star reviews. Doesn't strike me as a "vocal minority".
We will know more in the next week or so, when Apple either issues a mea culpa (as opposed to a rebuttal) for this crippleware, or stays silent in the face of criticism.
The former means they haven't completely written off the pros (some of whom I wouldn't be surprised to find out are bypassing the forums and emailing SJ directly).
The latter, well...
We will know more in the next week or so, when Apple either issues a mea culpa (as opposed to a rebuttal) for this crippleware, or stays silent in the face of criticism.
The former means they haven't completely written off the pros (some of whom I wouldn't be surprised to find out are bypassing the forums and emailing SJ directly).
The latter, well...
I think you're spot on here. True multi user workflow Pro tools (the few that are left) do not even fit into Apple as a company - its not what they're about in a strategic sense at all.
FCP X will be a huge success - it is a huge upgrade for FCExpress users and iMovie folks, but Adobe and Avid are the ones interested in the high end business market, not Apple, its not what Apple is about.
I respectfully disagree. Their new page they put up about the "pro" features, comes off to me as them cowering away with their tail between their legs trying to hold onto their professional customer base, while it's clear that they're not interested in providing professional software anymore, but rather prosumer software that more people can use. The only thing I see wrong with them going in that direction is using the Final Cut Pro name. If they changed the name, there would be less people (including me) taking this so hard to the heART of editing.
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I'd call that targeting for the lowest common denominator, or racing to the bottom.
The television equivalent would be to air reality television and drop well written dramas.
The price is closer than you think.
If you need Automatic Duck (which is what the "pros" are saying):
Up Front:
FCP X solution = $300 FCP + $50 Motion + $50 Compression + $500 = $900
Switch to Adobe = Half price of premium production is around $950
And Adobe is a full suite, After Effects etc.
Upgrades:
FCP X: no upgrade price, assuming same price of $400 bucks all up (no assurances on what will be ripped out/included in next version)
Adobe: CS5.5 Upgrade is $400 (again this is the full suite based on a communicated roadmap)
Very attractive for pros
Tempting for prosumers who want to eventually master the whole editing process (color, sound etc.)
For an individual user thats fine. In a studio environment everyone need to have the same software. If John Blue, Sue Green and Sally Red start with the studio today they will have FCX. Since projects are constantly being updated and reused they will be out of the loop
Not to mention most pros already own the production suite because of After Effects and Photoshop
another expert telling any one who listens why apple will fail, and what apple needs to do...
Meanwhile, apple, laughing out loud, picks up two+ average customer for every "pro" that drops out...
Perhaps we should wait for the reports about average customers buying and loving FCP X?
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I doubt that the average customers are those that 'think differently'.
Oh yeah, completely different. Adobe wanted you to buy all new hardware when they stopped supporting Premiere on Mac for around four years, completely reasonable.
Let me get this straight, using a legacy/poorly supported app until the new one is ready for your use = bad but buying all knew pro computers or at the very least licenses for Windows and running all the computers in boot camp (assuming you even had Intel Macs and they weren't PPC because this happened even before Intel Macs existed) = completely reasonable.
Huh?
Adobe is a Windows first, Mac maybe developer. Everything is fine when the weather is sunny.
But what is the point of waiting until it's ready for your use? Still gonna be buggy then. And it's a complete application switch anyway. There's no upgrade path. There's no importing of old projects (hell, Premiere can import your FCP XMLs). And there's no real user base of freelancers, places to work, etc. Buy Production bundle from Adobe and you've got a full studio like FCP studio. You're gonna need a DVD app, and you're gonna need Photoshop and Illustrator just to exist. Might as well have premiere and After Effects. The yearly upgrades will cost less than FCP X + Motion + Compressor.
My suggestion - if you're an end to end solution house, I'd still get the Adobe Production bundle. You need it if you're on your own. You should have it already if you have the nerve to charge people for services. If you're a multi-user collaborative environment, Avid is the way to go by far. The only reason it hasn't been in the past was price compared to FCPs nearly equal or good enough feature set.
It's now a reboot. FCS is dead. People have been sticking with FCS waiting for the next release for 2 years nearly. In that time they were considering switching because the writing was on the wall. Apple has finally gone public with it's plans and editors/post production houses have to make a choice. Truthfully FCP X isn't even in the equation.
I've been using it for 11 years and it's not for me. I'm trying to figure out my next moves as well. I already have Premiere of course because I'm serious about my job. But I'm still thinking Avid is the way to go. Avid and Adobe just gave Apple a few months reprieve to get their act together for me.
edit: Adobe may be a windows first company, but Apple is definitly a gadget first, os second, computers third, software 4th company.
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