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I've had a hard time justifying CC costs. $30 for a month of Indesign when I just need to update my resume is a little much.

I know Pixelmator and Sketch/Affinity Designer are pretty good replacements for Photoshop and Illustrator, respectively, but what's the best replacement for InDesign (only tried Swift and iStudio; both are okay but missing some features that are important).
 
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I will NEVER buy another adobe product.

Subscription based pricing, what a joke, no thanks!

Not only will I never buy another adobe product, but even if they got rid of the subscription system I will still NEVER buy from them. Why should I invest time and money by saving my files as .psd and learning adobe's system when they have exposed their true motives. Once they have enough of a monopoly on something they go to subscription. They can never be trusted.

Still using my old copy of CS5.5 when it was on sale, it works just fine, I will never buy adobe again. Waiting for a good photoshop replacement that allows batch processing with actions similar to Photoshop, then I'll finally be able to get rid of the suite entirely. Judging from this post and every other post I've seen about Adobe I would imagine there's a large market of people ready to jump ship to the next Photoshop replacement when it comes out.
 
1899$ plus 3x500$ (CS5, CS5.5, CS6) = 3399$ in 4 years Thats 849$ per year or 70.8$ per month.

You're basic assumption is wrong. I do not want to upgrades. The tool I have works. I keep using it. I don't go out and get the latest "greatest" upgrade just because the manufacturer changes the color of the handle and adds a new doo-dad. I have work to get done. I have the tool that does it. Neither the subscription nor the upgrade are not of interest.

Real cost: $0/month and $0/year
 
You're basic assumption is wrong. I do not want to upgrades. The tool I have works. I keep using it. I don't go out and get the latest "greatest" upgrade just because the manufacturer changes the color of the handle and adds a new doo-dad. I have work to get done. I have the tool that does it. Neither the subscription nor the upgrade are not of interest.

Real cost: $0/month and $0/year

A-freakin-men!

What you just said can't be emphasized enough.


This is what most people here singing Adobe's praises are missing. Many users (especially those in a business setting) want a tool that works and doesn't change suddenly. Businesses will intentionally avoid upgrades for that reason. Changes are not welcome in a production environment and ever since CS2, Adobe has been running rampant with annoying feature changes and pointless UI tweaks and a whole host of other things that drive professional users nuts and directly affects productivity. It's not uncommon for a company to settle in with a version of some software and stay on it for many, many years. That's not laziness or indifference or cheapness but simply a desire to keep the toolset stable and unchanging.

Adobe pulling the rug out from under that just underscores how little they care about their customers' needs.
 
I will NEVER buy another adobe product.

Subscription based pricing, what a joke, no thanks!

Not only will I never buy another adobe product, but even if they got rid of the subscription system I will still NEVER buy from them. Why should I invest time and money by saving my files as .psd and learning adobe's system when they have exposed their true motives. Once they have enough of a monopoly on something they go to subscription. They can never be trusted.

Still using my old copy of CS5.5 when it was on sale, it works just fine, I will never buy adobe again. Waiting for a good photoshop replacement that allows batch processing with actions similar to Photoshop, then I'll finally be able to get rid of the suite entirely. Judging from this post and every other post I've seen about Adobe I would imagine there's a large market of people ready to jump ship to the next Photoshop replacement when it comes out.
I'm tired of the arguments of "as soon as someone else does everything this one thing does I'm gone!" there's a reason it's the king of the hill, it keeps adding features while everyone is catching up, there's a myriad of features added since your version from what 4-5 years ago that no ones caught up to yet?
 
Actually what I hate most are trolls who change the quote box on other users to make it appear as if they've posted something they didn't. Here's a good example:

MRU and I must have had the same dream because I remember you making the piracy remark too. I was going to comment on it but MRU already had.

And you just edited your post to add the "I am a respected software developer... HEATHEN!!!" bit while I was typing...

This is what most people here singing Adobe's praises are missing. Many users (especially those in a business setting) want a tool that works and doesn't change suddenly.

As you say, not all users feel that way so maybe the people singing Adobe's praises aren't 'missing' anything at all but are just representative of the demographic that doesn't sit on old versions of software indefinitely? Some Adobe offerings are very mature (like PS) but others (like PPro) are not so the non-stop feature train is a welcome addition to the less mature offerings. For example, PPro in CS 5.5 showed promise, in CS6 it was almost there but in CC (and beyond) it's turned into a legit contender.
 
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If it's a success on Mac (and Adobe enforces the "subscription suite") I guess cross-platform is just a matter of time. How long that'll be, no idea. Rhino took forever to go cross-plat and is still missing funciotns now in the mac-release.

But yea, same here. no-no atm.

I'm mostly worried about me not being able to open files anymore which is a major fear of mine (did happen before with other programs > lost forever) and that you get caught in an update cycle (update hardware to update software etc. pp) you're not necessarily interested in as well.

Well Serif currently insists it will be Mac only full stop but if they ever do change their minds and they've sorted out the wrinkles and added the missing functionality I need then I'll definitely have another look.
 
Interesting how they're comparing to CS6 a lot. I suspect a lot of customers are still holding onto their Cs 6 copies such as myself, for as long as possible to avoid the annual subscription payments.

$600/yr for *everything* is cheaper than CS6 ever was as far as I can remember.
 
Don't worry, you are constantly dropping thousands ... with subscriptions you are always paying more in the end. If this trend continues you'll soon have to pay € 100-200,- to use the computer you bought. But some people will even find apologies for that.

And I'm happy to do so :)
 
You're basic assumption is wrong. I do not want to upgrades. The tool I have works. I keep using it. I don't go out and get the latest "greatest" upgrade just because the manufacturer changes the color of the handle and adds a new doo-dad. I have work to get done. I have the tool that does it. Neither the subscription nor the upgrade are not of interest.

Real cost: $0/month and $0/year


You don't want updates, but the majority of Adobe Users wants them. That's why they had a upgrade price way lower than the full price, that's why one of the key selling points of Adobe CC is the fact that all apps are always updated and that's why Adobe CC is growing and in the last year it increased it user number by half million.

Also things evolve... If we were to apply that train of thought of yours we would still be designing sites with nested tables or CSS 1.1. :)
 
I am with you on that, no way I am giving up CS6 for a subscription plan. I just do not understand why Adobe is subscribe to CC or nothing; why can Adobe not offer both a subscription CC and standalone. I do understand why some large design firms would want a subscription to always have the latest tools, but Adobe removing all choice is what irks me the most about them. From what I can see, CC 2015 is really just CS6.5, nearly nothing has been vastly redesigned since CS6.

Perpetual software is on it's way out. Subscription or ad supported (apps etc) are the future.
 
ps, I was thinking about this topic today after I finished some stuff in the new Photoshop CC 2015. New tools in CC, CC 2014 and CC 2015 saves me time in overall in the process. Simply because new tools do the job for me with some mouse clicks which cost me more work in CS6 and lower. Faster filters, retouch options, organizing files, file linking, etc, you name it. The argument that the 60 bucks a month is in the big picture more expensive than buying it on a disk. But be aware that the time saving in a lot of ways with better performance and workflow has some value as well.

So, you can stick to CS6 because of a bunch of principles. And stay away from CC. Or move on. Safe time, enjoy the new tools, have some time left for hanging out near the coffee machine and talk to a real person (thats a joke)

Anyway, i rest my case for this. Be happy
 
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But did it have all the separate layers etc.?

And I repeat: I had that problem not with an Adobe program but alas, I can see them easily pull the plug on older formats just as well when some corporate shill decides it would be 'beneficial'.

While the subscriptions are evil/subscriptions are awesome and Adobe are greedy/why can't u afford $60 arguments are boring as hell, I've befall owing your ongoing side discussion about archiving and access with some interest.

Unfortunately we're only just starting to get to grips with digital archiving in a meaningful way, and to do it properly requires a comparable amount of "effort" to physical archiving. If you think of archival paper copies of things, they require particular grades of stock and ink and expensive controlled environments to maintain minimal levels of degradation.

achieving the same with your digital archives also requires work: saving archive copies in open formats as well as proprietary where possible; saving "exports" as well as source files (e.g. well-understood flat file formats like JPEG or flat .tiff, PDF, WAV or MP3 audio etc) and, for materials that you NEED to retain edit access, periodic reopen/re saves to new file formats or applications.

You mentioned that your lost CAD files were ArchiCAD? I don't know much about CAD but if you were able to export DXF/DWG, I think you'd still have reasonable access to those old files. It's a lot of effort required though, to always export archival versions of stuff. I know I don't do it...

Permanence isn't easy, even now!
 
I've had a hard time justifying CC costs. $30 for a month of Indesign when I just need to update my resume is a little much.

I know Pixelmator and Sketch/Affinity Designer are pretty good replacements for Photoshop and Illustrator, respectively, but what's the best replacement for InDesign (only tried Swift and iStudio; both are okay but missing some features that are important).

If you only use InDesign to update a resume, you don't need InDesign. If you need a few other apps regularly, CC isn't too bad IMO. That said I do like seeing some other cheaper alternative apps out there and I'm all for more competition for Adobe to worry about. (I feel the same with Apple!) I used to go as cheap as possible — getting Education discounts through my wife and not updating until I had to. Now I don't worry about it. I just do my work and send clients bills. I make more money in the long run by getting myself out of the worry-about-every-nickel-and-dime mentality. I like some of the handy extras, like Font Kit. And having a broader suite is nice. Thinking about dabbling w/ Premier soon, since it's available to me now.
 
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achieving the same with your digital archives also requires work: saving archive copies in open formats as well as proprietary where possible; saving "exports" as well as source files (e.g. well-understood flat file formats like JPEG or flat .tiff, PDF, WAV or MP3 audio etc) and, for materials that you NEED to retain edit access, periodic reopen/re saves to new file formats or applications.

Agreed that digital archiving really isn't archiving (i.e. put something on a stable medium in a stable environment for an extended period of time) but more along the lines of perpetually transitioning you data (and storage mediums) form old ones that are on their way out to new ones that are on their way in. To tie this back to the Adobe topic, I don't even know if I'll be using Adobe products on a regular basis 3-5 years from now so worrying about the long term cost isn't really an issue for me. I'm a video editor and a completely unpredictable series of events rocked the NLE world in the last few years so who knows what the landscape will look like in 2020. No matter what NLE I use part of my project wrap up is to export XMLs or AAFs so that I'm least likely to get tied down to a specific program.
 
I signed up for Creative Cloud before (actually, _just_ before, by a month) it became the only way to get the software. I use a significant portion of the full software package everyday for work (After Effects, Photoshop, and Illustrator are always open; Premiere, Flash, and InDesign are sometimes open as well), and Premiere and After Effects (especially Premiere) have had some significant and beneficial upgrades over the past two years. Even Photoshop has added some worthwhile features over the last two updates (the initial CC version is hideously buggy, however; CC 2014 is much better). Cost-wise, the subscription payments are a tax write-off, because it's a necessary business expense.

I understand being pragmatic and having strongly-held beliefs about subscription-service software, but there's no need to try and convince yourself and others that there's no benefit to _anyone_ in paying for CC. If you're the type of person that only opens up Photoshop a few times a month, then maybe you don't need CC and can do fine with CS6 or Pixelmator. That doesn't apply to all of us, however.

It's the same sort of religious zealotry I see with people _still_ mad about the existence of Final Cut Pro X, another application I make significant use of (Premiere works better for me for collaborative projects). Unless you require compatibility with hardware or software that forces you to stick with FCP 7, folks who haven't moved on to Premiere, FCPX, a newer version of Avid, or _something_ else modern are, at this point, doing themselves a injustice, especially when it comes time to render.
 
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Quark Express ?
I also know that Serif is coming up with Affinity Publisher, a direct competitor to InDesign , but it won't be released until early 2016. If it's anywhere as good as Designer and Photo, it smells trouble for Adobe.

I remember when Quark XPress ruled the roost very well. I was an XPress fanatic until they decided that they were going to rest on their laurels and let Mac users flounder or switch to PC. There were a ton of people in the design industry that would not update to OS X because they were committed to the XPress workflow. It took a herculean effort for Adobe to get InDesign to the point that it could overtake the Quark juggernaut, and they have not let up since. Adobe has a slam dunk with InDesign. The only thing that could unseat them is if they make the same mistake that Quark made, and they know better than to do that (because they were the ones who recognized it in the first place). There is no way Affinity Publisher is going to come even close to unseating them. It'd be like Little Sebastian running against American Pharaoh.
 
You have to be kidding!

I've tried CC (my employer was forced into Adobe's outrageously expensive subscription model recently) and it quite simply blows chunks. Adobe is making decisions based on greed nowadays. They just don't care about their customers. I'm glad it works for you, but I can assure you, business customers are NOT happy with Adobe.

I most certainly am not kidding. And I am a business customer – happy with Adobe's not-expensive subscription model and reliable and tested software that does not "blow chunks."

I don't know if you remember how much this stuff used to cost not too long ago. After Effects alone was a grand. Photoshop was $700. Illustrator was $450. InDesign was $500. If you wanted the Design Suite plus After Effects and Dreamweaver, your bill was well north of 3 grand. The Master Collection (which is what I used) was 2 grand just for the upgrade. THAT, my friend, was outrageously expensive, and precisely the reason why I am so grateful for the very reasonable subscription rate of $60 per month.

Also, I don't know if you've used any of these so-called alternative apps in a production environment, but they are notoriously unreliable and non-compatible in active workflows. Adobe is king for a reason. I would never ever work with any freelance designer who did not use Adobe apps.
 
Thank you Adobe! If it wasn't for CC, I would have never discovered Sketch.
You: <answers phone>Hello?
Me: Hi, I've got a series of projects that I need freelance help on for our new campaign. Should last about three months. Can you send me an estimate?
You: Yeah, sounds great. Hey, I use Sketch, is that okay?
Me: Sketch? Sorry, man. We need files that fit in a standard professional workflow. Get back in touch with me once you're up to speed on the Adobe apps. <click>
 
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