My understanding, after talking to one of their techs last mont, is that you download the actual software and work locally. Does not require constant web access.
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Adobe Announces New Creative Cloud Apps, Abandons Creative Suite
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My understanding, after talking to one of their techs last mont, is that you download the actual software and work locally. Does not require constant web access.
Dear Adobe:
**** you.
Sincerely, everyone who doesn't want to deal with your ****ed up licensing schemes.
**** you.
Sincerely, everyone who doesn't want to deal with your ****ed up licensing schemes.
Well this news sucks. I'm a pro user, I upgraded to CS6 Standard last year, I only use Photoshop and Illustrator, my copy of InDesign lies uninstalled somewhere.
I absolutely refuse to rent mission critical software. I don't want my software to automatically update to the latest version, I know of people who downgraded from CS4 to CS3 because of problems with the software. Who the hell wants to hand over money for that type of annoyance?
Adobe seem to have forgotten that they got to the top of the tree on the back of graphics students learning on their pirate copies, who later demanded its use within the workplace. I wonder where Adobe might be in a decade.
I absolutely refuse to rent mission critical software. I don't want my software to automatically update to the latest version, I know of people who downgraded from CS4 to CS3 because of problems with the software. Who the hell wants to hand over money for that type of annoyance?
Adobe seem to have forgotten that they got to the top of the tree on the back of graphics students learning on their pirate copies, who later demanded its use within the workplace. I wonder where Adobe might be in a decade.
I want to stress the issue about subscription cancellation. You will no longer be able to open your Adobe document files, unless a file conversion business starts up.
I cant stress how important it is to be able to access archival material and if there is a reason I can no longer pay my subscription, I lose access to my work. This is unacceptable.
Yes, so what happens is you'll spend a bunch of time trying to install the software, which won't work... you'll get on the phone with 'Adobe', but it's just a call center in India with a bunch of people who literally know nothing about the product except price points. They'll tell you you already installed it, then accuse you of pirating it. Then they'll transfer you, at which point a separate call center employee will attempt to upsell you to the creative cloud.
After yelling at them for upwards of an hour and getting transferred from one clueless person to another, you'll eventually be transferred to a guy who tells you they sold you the wrong versionthat their own website is incorrectand emails you new serials numbers. It'll install, but later you'll be double billed.
It''s pretty cool.
Yes, but you won't get any upgrades or updates(other then bug fixes), I will. And for the entire package, that's a pretty good deal versus shelling out one large amount of money at once.
I'm still not seeing why this model is a bad thing.
Do you have any evidence that this is in fact how it works? How does the Creative Cloud work now? Surely you can click Cancel on updates?
Well I'm not stupid enough to know that if I DON'T pay for it, why would I expect it to continue to work?
Plus why would I expect to only pay for one month and it still work? Do you think that's how it works?
So yes, I'm still paying for it, in a different way. I'm paying for it in the same way I pay for Spotify or Netflix. Say they release some new software that's great and I want to use it, I'd have to shell out an extra(probably in the hundreds of dollars) amount just to get it, while with CC I'll just already have it at no extra cost to my wallet.
According to the FAQ.
I bought Photoshop CS6 for over $1000, I have no idea how much an upgrade would have cost me to the next version if they proceeded as they were... That's what we should be paying divided out over the time between updates.
Guess I'll be sticking to PS CS6 for a while yet.
If the internet is to be believed the average annual income for someone with the title of "graphic artist" or "graphic designer" is $45-50k and $4k/mo would land you at $48k.
The software doesn't auto update.
What I am seeing here is most have no clue what Creative Cloud really is. You do not use Photoshop in the cloud. You download it to your computer and use it just like you would if you bought CS6 disk. On one side you always have the latest release. I do understand those who go multiple years on the same release though. Thank those people who won't pay for legit copies.
For anyone who cares, or is amused, here's the chat i just had with an Adobe representative:
All representatives are actively assisting other customers. There are 17 customer(s) in line ahead of you. Thank you for your patience.
[...]
You are now chatting with Ashutosh.
Ashutosh: Hello! Welcome to Adobe Customer Service.
jace: Hi
Ashutosh: Thank you for contacting Adobe chat support. I have received your query. You wants to give feedback ? Correct ?
jace: Yes.
Ashutosh: May I know the issue you were facing ?
jace: Adobe's new subscription policy in future versions of their Creative products.
Ashutosh: Alright.
Ashutosh: May I please have your email address registered with Adobe?
jace: Why? i don't want any marketing email and i don't share my contact info unless i absolutely need to.
Ashutosh: I am just locating your Adobe account that's why I ask for e-mail address.
jace: i'm looking for contact info for feedback to Adobe corporate, not looking for any help with my Adobe account. It was hard enough to find this chat because the website does everything it can to stop us actually interacting directly. That's another thing i'd like to give feedback on, frankly.
Ashutosh: Please go on www.adobe.com and there click on contact adobe and there is an feedback form.
Ashutosh: Fill that form and you will get reply.
jace: Can you please give me the direct URL?
Ashutosh: click here
jace: The word "Feedback" isn't present on the Contact Adobe page at all.
jace: That's why i'm asking you.
Ashutosh: Please contact us on voice support :800-443-8158 for your concern.
jace: So, you're telling me that this chat feature is useless for getting an actual answer to my inquiry and that i will get the info i am requesting by calling voice support?
Ashutosh: for feedback related concern, contact us on voice support.
Ashutosh: For inquiry, we are happy to assist you on chat.
jace: My inquiry IS to get the contact info for feedback to Adobe corporate. You can't handle that inquiry except to pass the buck? Wont i experience the same thing when i call that number? Wont they just tell me to go to the website? i've had my fill of call center madness.
Ashutosh: I'll be right with you.
jace: Ok.
Ashutosh: You can send the feedback on "adbecare@adobe.com".
jace: adbecare? Is that a typo?
Ashutosh: No, it is without "O".
jace: That's odd. Is that some attempt to stop people from using an older version of the feedback address they might have found in previous times?
jace: Wait. Are you trolling me?
Ashutosh: No.
Ashutosh: This is correct e-mail address.
jace: I just googled that email address and found references to it. Ok. Thanks. Sorry for the paranoia :-D
Ashutosh: Is there anything else I can help you with?
jace: Thanks for that email address. i have a second inquiry about the subscription setup.
Ashutosh: May I know your inquiry ?
jace: Is the subscription requirement only for the entire Suite or is it also being required with individual products? Are individual products still available as standalone perpetual licenses?
Ashutosh: Yes, the individual subscription is also available along with suite subscription.
jace: That's not what i'm asking. I'll try again:
jace: Are individual Adobe products, like Photoshop, for example, still available WITHOUT subscription?
Ashutosh: Yes, they are also available.
Ashutosh: You can only purchase the latest version.
Ashutosh: You can download or purchase the DVD of point product.
jace: So, i can purchase a single perpetual license for the latest version of Photoshop, WITHOUT having to subscribe? One-time payment?
Ashutosh: Yes, you can purchase an DVD or the download version of Photoshop.
jace: That's not a subscription?
jace: I'm just trying to be sure i understand.
Ashutosh: Yes, you can pay for the full version amount for one time and use it.
jace: Ah, okay. Thank you very much for this information, Ashutosh.
Ashutosh: You are most welcome.
Ashutosh: Is there anything else I can help you with?
jace: No. Thanks for your patience with me.
Ashutosh: Thank you for contacting Adobe. We are available 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. Goodbye!
jace: Goodbye.
Thank you for chatting with us. Please click the "Close" button on the top right of the chat window to tell us how we did today.
[...]
You are now chatting with Ashutosh.
Ashutosh: Hello! Welcome to Adobe Customer Service.
jace: Hi
Ashutosh: Thank you for contacting Adobe chat support. I have received your query. You wants to give feedback ? Correct ?
jace: Yes.
Ashutosh: May I know the issue you were facing ?
jace: Adobe's new subscription policy in future versions of their Creative products.
Ashutosh: Alright.
Ashutosh: May I please have your email address registered with Adobe?
jace: Why? i don't want any marketing email and i don't share my contact info unless i absolutely need to.
Ashutosh: I am just locating your Adobe account that's why I ask for e-mail address.
jace: i'm looking for contact info for feedback to Adobe corporate, not looking for any help with my Adobe account. It was hard enough to find this chat because the website does everything it can to stop us actually interacting directly. That's another thing i'd like to give feedback on, frankly.
Ashutosh: Please go on www.adobe.com and there click on contact adobe and there is an feedback form.
Ashutosh: Fill that form and you will get reply.
jace: Can you please give me the direct URL?
Ashutosh: click here
jace: The word "Feedback" isn't present on the Contact Adobe page at all.
jace: That's why i'm asking you.
Ashutosh: Please contact us on voice support :800-443-8158 for your concern.
jace: So, you're telling me that this chat feature is useless for getting an actual answer to my inquiry and that i will get the info i am requesting by calling voice support?
Ashutosh: for feedback related concern, contact us on voice support.
Ashutosh: For inquiry, we are happy to assist you on chat.
jace: My inquiry IS to get the contact info for feedback to Adobe corporate. You can't handle that inquiry except to pass the buck? Wont i experience the same thing when i call that number? Wont they just tell me to go to the website? i've had my fill of call center madness.
Ashutosh: I'll be right with you.
jace: Ok.
Ashutosh: You can send the feedback on "adbecare@adobe.com".
jace: adbecare? Is that a typo?
Ashutosh: No, it is without "O".
jace: That's odd. Is that some attempt to stop people from using an older version of the feedback address they might have found in previous times?
jace: Wait. Are you trolling me?
Ashutosh: No.
Ashutosh: This is correct e-mail address.
jace: I just googled that email address and found references to it. Ok. Thanks. Sorry for the paranoia :-D
Ashutosh: Is there anything else I can help you with?
jace: Thanks for that email address. i have a second inquiry about the subscription setup.
Ashutosh: May I know your inquiry ?
jace: Is the subscription requirement only for the entire Suite or is it also being required with individual products? Are individual products still available as standalone perpetual licenses?
Ashutosh: Yes, the individual subscription is also available along with suite subscription.
jace: That's not what i'm asking. I'll try again:
jace: Are individual Adobe products, like Photoshop, for example, still available WITHOUT subscription?
Ashutosh: Yes, they are also available.
Ashutosh: You can only purchase the latest version.
Ashutosh: You can download or purchase the DVD of point product.
jace: So, i can purchase a single perpetual license for the latest version of Photoshop, WITHOUT having to subscribe? One-time payment?
Ashutosh: Yes, you can purchase an DVD or the download version of Photoshop.
jace: That's not a subscription?
jace: I'm just trying to be sure i understand.
Ashutosh: Yes, you can pay for the full version amount for one time and use it.
jace: Ah, okay. Thank you very much for this information, Ashutosh.
Ashutosh: You are most welcome.
Ashutosh: Is there anything else I can help you with?
jace: No. Thanks for your patience with me.
Ashutosh: Thank you for contacting Adobe. We are available 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. Goodbye!
jace: Goodbye.
Thank you for chatting with us. Please click the "Close" button on the top right of the chat window to tell us how we did today.
No automatic updates. I have been using cloud for three months. You have to tell it to update manually.
As I recall, Photoshop CS6 had cost $800 for a new license. A perpetual use license. That's $44.44 per month.
Or $200 (if I recall) for an upgrade license.
Remember, those prices are for eternal, perpetual licenses.
But now, for $50/mo for Photoshop, I am leasing it.
Since when does a lease cost more than an outright purchase? Especially what happens when the software can't validate itself all the time and then cuts you off, claiming you're a freeloader. Good deal, huh?
And since, as anyone in the biz should have noticed this, each new CS release has had fewer features - CS6 had a couple improvements to CS5.5 (the first time Adobe played the incremental point release game as well) - mostly cosmetic but some structural, CS7 had virtually none. I was borderline with buying CS6 because it wasn't a *big* release in the way one would expect. So isn't it interesting that newer features and functionality have been slower, yet now they are going to play a lock-in leasing scheme that reduces users' freedom to use what they are paying for, while making it look like a better deal?
A shame the competition doesn't exist, since competition is good in a free market and Adobe's antics clearly spit on free market values. A free market is supposed to help customers. Since the customer experience has far, far more to do than just waving a sticker price and having everybody blindly bow to that, I know it will take some people longer to figure out the big picture.
Or $200 (if I recall) for an upgrade license.
Remember, those prices are for eternal, perpetual licenses.
But now, for $50/mo for Photoshop, I am leasing it.
Since when does a lease cost more than an outright purchase? Especially what happens when the software can't validate itself all the time and then cuts you off, claiming you're a freeloader. Good deal, huh?
And since, as anyone in the biz should have noticed this, each new CS release has had fewer features - CS6 had a couple improvements to CS5.5 (the first time Adobe played the incremental point release game as well) - mostly cosmetic but some structural, CS7 had virtually none. I was borderline with buying CS6 because it wasn't a *big* release in the way one would expect. So isn't it interesting that newer features and functionality have been slower, yet now they are going to play a lock-in leasing scheme that reduces users' freedom to use what they are paying for, while making it look like a better deal?
A shame the competition doesn't exist, since competition is good in a free market and Adobe's antics clearly spit on free market values. A free market is supposed to help customers. Since the customer experience has far, far more to do than just waving a sticker price and having everybody blindly bow to that, I know it will take some people longer to figure out the big picture.
Awful awful decision, Adobe. This from a licensed Production Premium user and a 15 year customer of your software. I've been stalling on buying this subscription because I know once I jump on, I'm on that bus forever. I buy their software and use this as a pro- these are some of my concerns:
1. Do the math. $600 bucks a year. $1200 for two years. $1800+ for three years. $2400+ for four. $3000+ for five years. Almost nobody pays Adobe that much with package purchases and upgrade costs currently. After around three years, nearly every single customer is gonna pay more- way more- in this scheme.... and thats even IF they don't raise the subscription rates. And as time goes on they're gonna make more and more and more.
2. 50 bucks a month now. How much per month next year? 60? 65? Or the year after that? This isn't like leasing a car when you know your payments are staying the same for the length of the lease. Adobe can charge anything they want next year or two years from now... or they can raise it a bit each month if they want to.
3. If I say no to the monthly lease, and just cancel, I can't even open my files anymore. Because I don't really own ANYTHING. BIG BIG problem. Guaranteed eternal membership.
4. What other options are there? If I had older software and don't upgrade, I at least have my old software which will keep working and I can access my files. I don't have anything if say no here.
5. All or one. There is no reasonable option for people that use say 3 or 4 apps. Who here uses 7 Adobe apps or more all the time? Why should we all pay for access to stuff we don't use?
6. Maybe I don't wanna upgrade all the time. Why should I have to pay for it anyway even if I don't? Flash CS3 is arguably better than most of their more recent releases. I haven't needed to buy un upgrade for something that makes my program work WORSE, so I haven't needed to spend that money on upgrades. Once again, I'm losing options.
6. Why would they need to bother to innovate? We're stuck on the line as automatically paying customers no matter what. No reason to do much to sell copies of the next version- hey they're gonna buy it anyway. They have to.
1. Do the math. $600 bucks a year. $1200 for two years. $1800+ for three years. $2400+ for four. $3000+ for five years. Almost nobody pays Adobe that much with package purchases and upgrade costs currently. After around three years, nearly every single customer is gonna pay more- way more- in this scheme.... and thats even IF they don't raise the subscription rates. And as time goes on they're gonna make more and more and more.
2. 50 bucks a month now. How much per month next year? 60? 65? Or the year after that? This isn't like leasing a car when you know your payments are staying the same for the length of the lease. Adobe can charge anything they want next year or two years from now... or they can raise it a bit each month if they want to.
3. If I say no to the monthly lease, and just cancel, I can't even open my files anymore. Because I don't really own ANYTHING. BIG BIG problem. Guaranteed eternal membership.
4. What other options are there? If I had older software and don't upgrade, I at least have my old software which will keep working and I can access my files. I don't have anything if say no here.
5. All or one. There is no reasonable option for people that use say 3 or 4 apps. Who here uses 7 Adobe apps or more all the time? Why should we all pay for access to stuff we don't use?
6. Maybe I don't wanna upgrade all the time. Why should I have to pay for it anyway even if I don't? Flash CS3 is arguably better than most of their more recent releases. I haven't needed to buy un upgrade for something that makes my program work WORSE, so I haven't needed to spend that money on upgrades. Once again, I'm losing options.
6. Why would they need to bother to innovate? We're stuck on the line as automatically paying customers no matter what. No reason to do much to sell copies of the next version- hey they're gonna buy it anyway. They have to.
I'm starting to see that the model is great for some people, terrible for others.
like for me, it's great. For the price of -2 good hamburgers a month, I get to use Photoshop. It might cost me more over the course of a few years, but hey, it's a pro level application that I get a lot of use out of. $250 a year isn't much in the grand scheme of things.
But like Yoink pointed out, studios with a lot of seats that need to be licensed, or people using more than one program are getting a bit of the short end of the stick and paying a good deal more than what they had in the past.
Once again, I'm not totally against the subscription service, but it needs more work and more options so it pleases everybody.
----------
No. It's $20 a month for just Photoshop.
Mostly right.
It is installed locally.
The difference is, it is a lease where the software regularly and frequently contacts home base to make sure you're complying with Adobe's demands.
And per my immediate response above, even I noticed that, between CS4 and CS6, new features got less and less frequent, InDesign still lacks features competitors like puny MS Publisher have... Making this a SaaS bait'n'switch only relieves Adobe of any incentive to do the work to add or fix features.
And, per my aforementioned immediate response, depending on application, one is now paying more to lease as opposed to buy. One may as well lease a car for $600/mo as opposed to buying it for $400/mo...
I agree entirely. I think it's great to get the latest and greatest, and not have to wait for point releases. I just wish that audition would get some more attention. I find myself using reaper instead.
What about if you have to reinstall the software? Say you had CC version 1.1 installed and hadn't run the update to 1.2. If you reinstall are you forced up to 1.2?
That's for the entire suite, which is for every program Adobe offers. Individual apps cost $20.
...which is weird, because if you subscribe to two of their apps, you're almost paying as much as you would for all 17.
I quoted you simply because this bears repeating. More people need to think about this. No matter WHAT Adobe charges for this years from now (lets see, in a couple years, how does $99.99 per month sound?), Well, you WILL pay that amount... no questions asked, or all your old files are worthless.
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I think pay per usage might be a good option for some people like me that only needs to use the program once every 2-3 months.