Adobe Announces New Creative Cloud Apps, Abandons Creative Suite

[asting]

Well it looks like, once again, pirates will provide the solution. As a legitimate licenser of several version of CS6, 5.5 and 5 this is beyond disappointing. I was really looking forward to the camera shake fix too, which was originally slated for CS6.

 

[jjhny]

That has nothing to do with this. You still have to install the software locally, you just need an internet collection to maintain activation.

Which I have good reason not to trust.

During Hurricane Sandy, most of the Tri-State area lost the internet and power for 3 full days. Many people got power back, but no internet for TWO WEEKS.

Luckily we had a generator and kept working on deadlines. And our servers are local, not on some dumb cloud.

If we had CLOUD we would have been dead. Plain and simple.

The fact is, you can't count on cloud - and when people needed the internet most, it wasn't there. And that's the point - this wasn't theoretical. This happened - and in a densely populated (NY, NJ, CT, MA) area.

You can't safely trust the cloud. Thankfully we didn't have to.

 

[RoxyJ]

Butt Backwards

Adobe is going about this subscription model backwards. Most subscription services realize that the subscription model is not as attractive as actually owning a perpetual license.To offset this, and to entice consumers to help support a consistent revenue stream they offer subscribers an attractive subscription rate (usually much lower than perpetually licensed software) along with added benefits.

The benefits for subscribers usually include; customer support (which isn’t included in Creative Cloud and is a big one), the ability to continue to receive updates to the software for a set period of time (usually 1 year), and added benefits (such as additional apps, subscription exclusive offers, community forums etc..)

They don’t sell you on the software itself on a subscription, but rather on the added features of the subscription, and level of premium customer service. If the company delivers a great subscription model subscribers have no reason to cancel and the company makes a lot more money, and maintains a consistent revenue stream.

 

[fa8362]

Like I said before, I would have no problem with CC if it weren't for 2 major problems with the Adobe's model: price and post-access

PRICE
To use a famous quote, "The rent is too damn high!"
In various calculations, we will be paying 1.5 to 2X more in given time-frames than what our upgrade costs were.

In my case, because I rarely updated, it's 5 times more expensive. Adobe can kiss my butt.

 

[Larry-K]

I currently have CS5 and it allows you install and use on two computers without restrictions. With the new CC method you can install it on two computers but you can't use the same application at the same time.

My wife and I use the same applications regularly on both computers so this will be a big issue. The only solution is to pay more for a team account.

The other option of having one computer not connected to the Internet isn't going to work since we need to be "connected" to access our files on a NAS.😡

The EULA states you can only use it on one machine at a time legally.

 

[thekev]

Well it looks like, once again, pirates will provide the solution. As a legitimate licenser of several version of CS6, 5.5 and 5 this is beyond disappointing. I was really looking forward to the camera shake fix too, which was originally slated for CS6.

There are already ways to stabilize and track camera movements in other applications.

Unfortunately (or hopefully for some) traditional print media is becoming more and more irrelevant and then Adobe will suffer a painful death. Because this is the only field where Adobe still is outstanding and without genuine competition and thus has taken the whole printing industry hostage. Acrobat is Adobe's true backbone technology.

For web design, video/multimedia production there are already several viable options on the market and as soon as the complicated CMYK baggage of Photoshop no longer will be needed, future more sophisticated versions of Pixelmator et al will probably do our photo editing jobs just fine.
Illustrator I always found rather tedious and lame. Any ambitious and committed vector program developer could probably beat that.

Adobe moved their primary focus from print media a long time ago. It remains to be seen how they survive in the future, but their business model should not require it to remain viable. I don't think CMYK will completely disappear too soon, but the ICC profile system seems backwards compared to the way many video apps use LUT systems to avoid constant drastic translations of data. Even today as long as there's a viable path to it, the issue of CMYK isn't a problem.

I currently have CS5 and it allows you install and use on two computers without restrictions. With the new CC method you can install it on two computers but you can't use the same application at the same time.

My wife and I use the same applications regularly on both computers so this will be a big issue. The only solution is to pay more for a team account.

The other option of having one computer not connected to the Internet isn't going to work since we need to be "connected" to access our files on a NAS.😡

It's only licensed for use on one machine at a time. It was more for people who owned a desktop + notebook or home + office computer. When they migrated to a system of activations, they allowed that so as not to step on too many toes.

 

[dfelix]

I can't get the Creative Cloud straight up because Adobe simply chose to ignore my country (and my credit cards). So I have to buy "gift cards" in order to make it work.

However, I still need Incopy, but I can't buy that as it does not seem to be available anywhere on Earth but on Adobe's site, who still refuse to accept any kind of monetary payment from me (and anyone else in my country).

I feel so helpless. It's not that I lack money or a will to buy; I'm just given no option, really.

----------

So you'd rather pay $3500 for a suit of software that will be considered "too old" in 3 years?

Their cloud structure allows me to buy software that is CONSTANTLY upgraded. AND if I have a big project that I need 3 extra seats for 2 months, I don't have to fork over over $10,000 to do so. It's only $300.

I love ADOBE's cloud system. It's great for people who don't steal software.

But not so great for people who want to shell out the money to subscribe but can't because somehow "the product is not available in your country".

It's SOFTWARE on the goddamn INTERNET, how is it not available in my country? Who is Adobe's marketing genius making them tons of money by completely and totally pretending countries do not exist and then complain about piracy to the point of shifting all their software to rent-me-not status??

 

[pilgrim2812]

Paradigm Change

This is the end of owning licensed use of software and the beginning of monthly subscriptions. Great for Adobe's bottom line, bad for the user who must continue to pay or be shut off.

 

[fivedots]

Which I have good reason not to trust.

During Hurricane Sandy, most of the Tri-State area lost the internet and power for 3 full days. Many people got power back, but no internet for TWO WEEKS.

Luckily we had a generator and kept working on deadlines. And our servers are local, not on some dumb cloud.

If we had CLOUD we would have been dead. Plain and simple.

The fact is, you can't count on cloud - and when people needed the internet most, it wasn't there. And that's the point - this wasn't theoretical. This happened - and in a densely populated (NY, NJ, CT, MA) area.

You can't safely trust the cloud. Thankfully we didn't have to.

Except you get longer than 3 days or 2 weeks offline. 30 days before you even hear a peep about it at which point you a transitioned to a trial. I'd guess at minimum 60 days offline before you're out of luck.

Not saying I'm for the system, but trying to clear up the facts.

 

[dfelix]

According to this page, they seem to finally have included Incopy in the package:
http://www.adobe.com/products/incopy.html


After updating my creative cloud connection, all I get though is an unspecified crash while looking for updates, maybe a restart will do the trick.

I do have my hopes up though, I really needed incopy.

 

[splitpea]

Except you get longer than 3 days or 2 weeks offline. 30 days before you even hear a peep about it at which point you a transitioned to a trial. I'd guess at minimum 60 days offline before you're out of luck.

Not saying I'm for the system, but trying to clear up the facts.

Right, because natural disasters only occur in the *middle* of an upgrade cycle, never 2 days before the next server check is due.

 

[fivedots]

Right, because natural disasters only occur in the *middle* of an upgrade cycle, never 2 days before the next server check is due.

Do you have any confirmation that this is how it works? If so, then yes, I agree, that is goofy. I assumed that it "phoned home" at least daily and starting counting from the day that connection failed. So you would get 30 days from the last successful connection and not from a predetermined monthly date. This seems like that only logical solution. An existing CC subscriber can likely confirm.

 

[splitpea]

Do you have any confirmation that this is how it works? If so, then yes, I agree, that is goofy. I assumed that it "phoned home" at least daily and starting counting from the day that connection failed. So you would get 30 days from the last successful connection and not from a predetermined monthly date. This seems like that only logical solution. An existing CC subscriber can likely confirm.

Yeah, my assumption was that it checks only periodically. Given the monthly billing cycle - it would be figuring out whether or not you'd renewed for the upcoming month.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Bad comparison. For one, when you lease a car, you have the option of purchasing it outright for a fair market value when your lease ends. Because you have been slowly paying money towards the principal. With Adobe, however, there is absolutely NO purchase option for leased CC software. EVER. No matter how much or how many years you have been paying. 20 years later, after leasing for 50 bucks a month (or more), you will have paid a small fortune for this software, and yet you STILL don't own anything. You will have far far exceeded that $2599.

I wonder how many large companies that provide vehicles for their employees purchase the vehicles in their fleet up front or lease them? The company isn't interested in owning cars, it's interested in providing transportation for its sales people (for example) because the sales people earn the company money. The car is the means to a bigger end.

This is my biggest complaint as well. I was doing the math yesterday and it makes me furious that I will likely spend over $40,000 in my life time on CC and I will never end up owning anything. It seems like a complete rip-off. To spend $40,000 dollars and not own anything is seriously crazy.

A couple of years ago I got rid of many old boxed copies of FCP, Avid, Windows, Office, OS X and various other software that I spent thousands of dollars on and it all become totally useless over time. The only versions that mattered where the newest ones. Was I really gonna install and use OS 10.4, FCP 5.1, Avid DV Express? Sure, I had physical discs but I had no need to use them and even if I did I didn't have any machines anymore that will run them. Resell value? I paid $1k for FCP 3 back in the day and I'd be lucky to get $40 on eBay for it now.

The value in professional software is not the software itself but in how it can used to produce revenue. If I spend $40k in my lifetime on software but earn hundreds of times that in revenue from said software I would count that as a good investment even if I don't have a closet full of old, useless software boxes to show for it.

My initial reaction was pretty much the same as everyone else's but the more I think about it the more I ask myself, "How valuable is that 8yr old copy of AE sitting in my desk draw?"

Which I have good reason not to trust.

During Hurricane Sandy, most of the Tri-State area lost the internet and power for 3 full days. Many people got power back, but no internet for TWO WEEKS.

You only need to connect once every 5wks (once a month + 1 week grace period) and you can call Abode for an extension if you have extenuating circumstances.

 

[Cavepainter]

I wonder how many large companies that provide vehicles for their employees purchase the vehicles in their fleet up front or lease them? The company isn't interested in owning cars, it's interested in providing transportation for its sales people (for example) because the sales people earn the company money. The car is the means to a bigger end.

No doubt you're right- large companies (and governments) mostly lease their auto fleets- but they also have enormous amounts of revenue and can afford to pay significantly more for leasing over time just to avoid the paperwork and maintenance headaches. Owning a fleet of automobiles with fuel, maintenance, parts and insurance issues is alot more complicated than owning a bunch of seats of computer software.

Plus, I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of users of Adobe software (and almost everyone involved in this discussion here) don't own 100 million dollar companies.

 

[LethalWolfe]

No doubt you're right- large companies (and governments) mostly lease their auto fleets- but they also have enormous amounts of revenue and can afford to pay significantly more for leasing over time just to avoid the paperwork and maintenance headaches. Owning a fleet of automobiles with fuel, maintenance, parts and insurance issues is alot more complicated than owning a bunch of seats of computer software.

Plus, I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of users of Adobe software (and almost everyone involved in this discussion here) don't own 100 million dollar companies.

I certainly agree that ancillary costs of owning/maintaining a vehicle does not compare to software. Of course $50/mo for Adobe CC is much less than leasing a fleet of cars so you don't need to be a giant organization in order to afford it.

I'm still on the fence about Adobe CC but when I look around at things that used to be expensive but now are door stops (anyone interested in a used DV deck?) it makes me realize that the value in those items is not the in item itself but in how that item enables me to earn a living. My rule of thumb for business purchases has always been that what I'm buying has to earn it's keep. If I can't foresee the gear paying for itself in a timely fashion I don't buy it.

Adobe CC will earn it's keep so I should be okay with paying for it, but part of me is reluctant because I like to own my stuff even though the stuff I own becomes worthless rather quickly because that's the nature of technology

 

[scan300]

My initial reaction was pretty much the same as everyone else's but the more I think about it the more I ask myself, "How valuable is that 8yr old copy of AE sitting in my desk draw?"

That depends on the value you put on the work you produced with it. If nothing else opens that document but that 8yr old copy of AE, then it's extremely valuable.

In 10 years time, I cancel my subscription because I can no longer afford it, the documents I created with versions of Creative Cloud dated from when I started subscription to when I ended will no longer be accessible.

I'm having a lot of difficulty getting an answer on this question from people who are advocates of Creative Cloud. What are you going to do with you work when you cancel your subscription?

 

[Sarmiento]

There are already ways to stabilize and track camera movements in other applications.




Adobe moved their primary focus from print media a long time ago. It remains to be seen how they survive in the future, but their business model should not require it to remain viable. I don't think CMYK will completely disappear too soon, but the ICC profile system seems backwards compared to the way many video apps use LUT systems to avoid constant drastic translations of data. Even today as long as there's a viable path to it, the issue of CMYK isn't a problem.



It's only licensed for use on one machine at a time. It was more for people who owned a desktop + notebook or home + office computer. When they migrated to a system of activations, they allowed that so as not to step on too many toes.

Well it was an easy decision for us. We will not be upgrading then. It's just not worth it. We don't always buy the latest versions and prefer to skip 1-2 cycles depending on software. And if we had to pay for 2 people then it's worse.

Apple's "App Store" lets you install on all your machines. The CS5 suite we got does not have Premier Pro and we were looking at comparing the top softwares and then upgrade. I guess our best option is Final Cut Pro X and probably just pay for the Lightroom 5 Upgrade when that happens as long as its not tied only to the creative cloud.

 

[LethalWolfe]

That depends on the value you put on the work you produced with it. If nothing else opens that document but that 8yr old copy of AE, then it's extremely valuable.

I still have my finished video, I just don't have access to my project file. Of course that assumes that I saved the video in a codec that is supported by whatever computer I own 8yrs down the road. Another issue entirely...

I'm having a lot of difficulty getting an answer on this question from people who are advocates of Creative Cloud. What are you going to do with you work when you cancel your subscription?

PSDs can be opened by some other image editors like Pixelmator (though it's not 100% compatible). Premiere can export XMLs and those have become a pretty standard way to share edits between different NLEs (again, not 100% perfect). If I someone needs access to their project files after they cancel their CC subscription they can just start it back up again for a month. Hell, you might even be able to just download a 30-day demo and use that.

 

[macmacgoose]

What the hell!? For the very sparse use I have for CS, a subscription model does not make sense at all. I don't use it more than a few times a month (sometimes gaps of more than a month) so paying for a continuous subscription would be ridiculous.

I still use CS3. It works on Windows 7, and at some point I even activated it on my Mac in a virtual machine. I've been holding out on buying the newer version as I still can get the education discount so no point it getting it too early before another version comes out. Looks like I might as well get CS6 and maybe get a decade's use out of that.

This model is also really bad for Microsoft Office. Again, these are programs I seldomly use, so if I have to fork out per month, it is not worth it. I'd just start using open source software which can open up these documents (minus a few compatibility issues) or buy the next best software with a permanent license (I hope iWork isn't going in that direction). In fact, I still use Office 2003.

 

[scan300]

PSDs can be opened by some other image editors like Pixelmator (though it's not 100% compatible). Premiere can export XMLs and those have become a pretty standard way to share edits between different NLEs (again, not 100% perfect). If I someone needs access to their project files after they cancel their CC subscription they can just start it back up again for a month. Hell, you might even be able to just download a 30-day demo and use that.

Thanks, you're the first to spell it out.

This is what I have experience with:
PSD files are only compatible with other versions of Photoshop & other apps if you don't use photoshop features eg some adjustment layers, 3D objects, smart objects etc

Illustrator files can only be downsaved if you don't use new features. Otherwise content will be lost.

Indesign interchange format can only save content that doesn't use new features. It is also buggy, you have to clean up the document after opening in another version of Creative Suite.

I don't save in these formats unless asked to by a client. At a rough guess I create about 1000 docs per year in CS native formats. That's a lot of imperfect conversions that need to be done.

Contrast that with 10 to 20 year old Quark documents and Freehand documents I can still open, because I still have the software and a system to run the apps. And they still open perfectly, with no need to clean up or restore missing content.

I would agree with you about restarting a subscription, just to open a few documents for conversion. But ten years of work would be a different story.

Currently the option to go with Creative Cloud means I need to constantly remember to save interchange docs as I go, with a hope that they will faithfully restore my work in the future. But my experience so far with interchange docs makes this a crap solution -- it's a backward step in productivity and document longevity.

 

[jeremy h]

Well, I'm going to have to subscribe now. UK pricing is even more expensive than US pricing - I'd love to know how they justify that. Interesting that they've gone to compulsory subscriptions so quickly - I suspect that the uptake to date for this payment model was very poor. (We might all be creative types rather than accountants but we're not daft!)

To my mind the issues are twofold - firstly there is now absolutely no impetus for Adobe to improve their products. (I pride myself on doing good work but if I got paid the same regardless of the quality and amount of my output I would inevitably spend more time having fun and less time working.) All the heavily marketed new features of the subscription service are there to make us switch over - once they've switched everyone over there's no reason to keep developing the software. Secondly - pricing, these will just crawl up and up. I suspect the service will become tiered to screw yet more out of us. At some point it will become uneconomic to individuals such as myself.

My biggest advice to the Adobe CEO though, would be to do as the Roman Emperors did during a great triumph through Rome. As they took the adulation of the crowds they got a slave to whisper 'You are mortal' into their ear. He should get an intern to whisper 'Remember Quark's arrogance' into his ear every morning.

 

[mumph]

After giving this a little thought Im now actually pleased Adobe have done this as it gives its rivals a chance to make a splash and take advantage of Adobes arrogance.

 

[sennekuyl]

Lots of pros are not going to like this change to service based and cloud based apps.

While I don't like the move, it should be noted the licenses to use the software are 'cloud based' (more correctly subscription) but the applications themselves will still be standard-alone installs.

What I want to know is how they came to the conclusion this was a 1) a good idea [for their customers] & 2) acceptable to their users?

From Ars technica:

Like it or not, more and more companies seem to think that software-as-a-service is the way to go: Adobe's efforts went from experiment to reality to mandatory in just two years. For its part, Adobe says that it has been surprised by Creative Cloud's success to date.

"We expected it to be a couple years before this happened. But we were surprised by how successful Creative Cloud has been," Scott Morris, senior director of product marketing for Creative Cloud, told CNET. "We know that's going to be a difficult transition for some customers, but we think it's going to be the best move in the long haul."

Who actually prefers Saas over perpetual licensing? Largely people whose usage is sporadic at most and large corporations to track their own usage.

Isn't it a bit doubtful Adobe would listen to people who rarely use their software? It isn't just Adobe screwing us over, it is businesses.

 

[Badagri]

While I don't like the move, it should be noted the licenses to use the software are 'cloud based' (more correctly subscription) but the applications themselves will still be standard-alone installs.

What I want to know is how they came to the conclusion this was a 1) a good idea [for their customers] & 2) acceptable to their users?

From Ars technica:


Who actually prefers Saas over perpetual licensing? Largely people whose usage is sporadic at most and large corporations to track their own usage.

Isn't it a bit doubtful Adobe would listen to people who rarely use their software? It isn't just Adobe screwing us over, it is businesses.

I loved that part and found it amusing.

"We know that's going to be a difficult transition for some customers, but we think it's going to be the best move in the long haul."