Adobe Announces New Creative Cloud Apps, Abandons Creative Suite

[JavaTheHut]

I know you're not referring to a comment I made, but I want to know why you think that.

Although my answer was curt, I was simply thinking the amount of times I would need to re-download a program every time it goes a rye pains me.... and they will go wrong! Like now we are having issues with Adobe Application Manager which I will not go into depth about.

If I can download the installers once and put them on a USBstick? I might be happier.
Cheers!

 

[Ethosik]

I am shocked that so many people here bring up the argument of opening their old files when they are 70 or 80. Really?

Okay, so 50 years later I decide to open up my CS6 project file? Couple of problems here.

No computer will last 50 years (as in I will probably go through A LOT of computers in that time).
Any computer you get 50 years from now probably cannot run a 50 year old piece of software. There are some compatibility issues just running 15 year old software!
If you have the physical copy and need to reinstall it, who even knows if Abode will still be around. The license server might be shut down for CS6. Didn't they shut down the license server for CS2 recently? That is only 4 versions behind!

If you really want to view your project 50 years later, you need to upgrade every release. That way you can use Photoshop version 5000 on Windows 2063 (if even Microsoft is still around by then!) to see your files.

What if 50 years later computers as we know it today are gone?

It is good to think about the future, but to think you can pull out your old CS6 discs 50 years later and use them is just ridiculous. Lots of things could happen by then. You might find yourself on eBay spending $400,000 on a 50 year old computer just so you can open the files, or you could have just been upgrading your project files.

This is the same as those that never wanted to move VHS to DVD. Luckily those types of conversion devices are still around. What will you do 50 years later when you want to watch those VHS tapes you never moved over to digital?

You always want to keep upgrading your stuff with things like this.

 

[sennekuyl]

That's certainly one way to look at it. If I have no customers this month, I don't pay to use Cloud. If I have customers, I pay $50 to use it. Certainly easier than dropping $2000+ on Creative Suite all at once.

Hmm... I'm still concerned about "Lose your job, lose your tools, loose are your files."

 

[Badagri]

That's certainly one way to look at it. If I have no customers this month, I don't pay to use Cloud. If I have customers, I pay $50 to use it. Certainly easier than dropping $2000+ on Creative Suite all at once.

...and if you want to look at your files with no work? no subscription? say you wanted to check something, forget how you did something? then what? pay a subscription for a month to look at a file for 5 minutes?

I am shocked that so many people here bring up the argument of opening their old files when they are 70 or 80. Really?

Okay, so 50 years later I decide to open up my CS6 project file? Couple of problems here.

No computer will last 50 years (as in I will probably go through A LOT of computers in that time).
Any computer you get 50 years from now probably cannot run a 50 year old piece of software. There are some compatibility issues just running 15 year old software!
If you have the physical copy and need to reinstall it, who even knows if Abode will still be around. The license server might be shut down for CS6. Didn't they shut down the license server for CS2 recently? That is only 4 versions behind!

If you really want to view your project 50 years later, you need to upgrade every release. That way you can use Photoshop version 5000 on Windows 2063 (if even Microsoft is still around by then!) to see your files.

What if 50 years later computers as we know it today are gone?

It is good to think about the future, but to think you can pull out your old CS6 discs 50 years later and use them is just ridiculous. Lots of things could happen by then. You might find yourself on eBay spending $400,000 on a 50 year old computer just so you can open the files, or you could have just been upgrading your project files.

This is the same as those that never wanted to move VHS to DVD. Luckily those types of conversion devices are still around. What will you do 50 years later when you want to watch those VHS tapes you never moved over to digital?

You always want to keep upgrading your stuff with things like this.

You keep saying computer... like the hard drive is locked to it. What does that have to do with where your PSD's are stored? people have a lot of stuff stored on external hard drives and backups of the backup. So it doesn't matter what computer you use, they'll just connect the hard drive to it to access their files.

People even use these all in one kits to rig up internal hard drives externally or buy enclosures. Or take hard drives with them even portable hard drives.

As for 50 years, god knows where we'll be with Adobe. I don't even know whats in store for 2015 or even 2020. But one thing, the prices wont be getting better with Adobe and I can't see this sort of service changing. It's all about milking. Only how hard do you like to be squeezed?

 

[cool11]

So, if it is not a completely 'virtual' product, but it requires a standard hard disk installation, as I can understand, the only ones that will a difficult life, will be the legal buyers of the product.

The other ones, will find the way to run it without all the hassle.

Maybe Adobe even see an increased piracy of the products, because no legal customer wants to be 'punished' with such ridiculous methods like 'once in a while you should be checked online'!

 

[budgynana]

You only need to connect once every 5wks (once a month + 1 week grace period) and you can call Abode for an extension if you have extenuating circumstances.

Granted 5wks is quite a long time, but when you have other priorities.... And imagine having to do it for a large facility?!

 

[Ethosik]

...and if you want to look at your files with no work? no subscription? say you wanted to check something, forget how you did something? then what? pay a subscription for a month to look at a file for 5 minutes?



You keep saying computer... like the hard drive is locked to it. What does that have to do with where your PSD's are stored? people have a lot of stuff stored on external hard drives and backups of the backup. So it doesn't matter what computer you use, they'll just connect the hard drive to it to access their files.

People even use these all in one kits to rig up internal hard drives externally or buy enclosures. Or take hard drives with them even portable hard drives.

As for 50 years, god knows where we'll be with Adobe. I don't even know whats in store for 2015 or even 2020. But one thing, the prices wont be getting better with Adobe and I can't see this sort of service changing. It's all about milking. Only how hard do you like to be squeezed?

And what will you do with that external drive 50 years later? You cannot run adobe directly on the external hard drive. It needs a computer to run a program. So what will you do with the external drive? That is right, plug it into a computer that can run a program to read the files.

My point was, even if you own it, chances are you cannot use CS6 50 years later. Lots of reasons as to why. So why is that an argument against Creative Cloud?

 

[gctwnl]

I love ADOBE's cloud system. It's great for people who don't steal software.

I bought CS6 for book production and maintenance. I don't steal, period. My usage is intermittent, say 1-2 times a month to update stuff. Then once a year a period of a lot of work for a month or so. A CS version might be usable to 3-4 years or so. Then I want to upgrade.

Adobe's cloud pricing translates to forcing me to the same cost as a 14-month upgrade cycle before this 'rent' deal.

Adobe's pricing means cost for my usage pattern is rising by 154%-238%.

It would have been fine if the 'rent' price would equate to the equivalent of a 3-year upgrade cycle.

I'd be fine with real pay-per-use. Just pay for as long as you have the app running. But this is not real pay-per-use, it is pay-per-access.

UPDATE: It's even worse: I cannot change my work scheme to concentrate it in a few months. The pricing I can use only is available in 1-year contracts. This, really stinks.

It is worse still: the price I saw quoted on Adobe's site is only for the first year. After that, the price increases with another 70%.

Conclusion: relative to the single purchase of a perpetual license I made last year, Adobe's new pricing is like paying that same amount every 9 months.

 

[eess]

26 years ago and 26 years ahead

I work as a designer/trainer. On special occasions i use the very first disc with Illustrator 1.0 in combination with the very first 128 K Macintosh. In this way I can demonstrate course participants the first design work we did for Dräger 26 years ago. Yes, that cute little Mac still works, as does the disc, with OS, application, and lots of data all contained within the 400 kB.

And I would like to show my clients 26 years from now, how we worked back in the good all days of 2013 with those nice iMacs and all the applications from that time even if in the year 2039 nobody knows how to spell Apple or Adobe.

 

[cheesymogul]

I am shocked that so many people here bring up the argument of opening their old files when they are 70 or 80. Really?

You just don't get it. It is not about opening ancient files. It is about using your old familar tools as a hobby or for cultural pro bono work when you are retired and might have to live from a measly pension or your savings (if the crash of the global derivatives bubble has not wiped it out by then...) and probably no longer make one single buck from your work. Will you still be able to fork out $50 (inflation adjusted it will be more likely $200 then) each month?

Or do you young guys hate your job so much, that you absolutely cannot imagine staying creative after retirement?

Many of us one person or small business creatives already make just barely enough to cover our cost of living now during this recession. Most of us don't work in the creative field to become filthy rich. We work here because we love it with passion!
Unfortunately the money bags who run Adobe are perfectly aware that a) most creative people are too bad at math to smell the rat and b) our creativity is an addiction. Like musicians we will keep on doing it till we drop dead.

That's the problem I have with cc. It is an extortion scheme that will make us dependent on Adobe's mercy for the rest of our god damn life!!!

If you cannot feel the whip of slavery in this, then you are the perfect obedient corporate sheep who doesn't deserve any better than to get extorted and squeezed by the monopolist software mafia!

I just placed what will be most likely the last Adobe order of my life...
After cancelling my plan to switch from FCP7 to Premiere, it was just the Design Premium.
Bye, bye Adobe, these were the last cents you greedy bastards ever saw from this professional!

 

[benwiggy]

I am shocked that so many people here bring up the argument of opening their old files when they are 70 or 80. Really?
Okay, so 50 years later I decide to open up my CS6 project file?

We're not all 20 years old. Put the hours in, son: then we'll talk.

Of course hardware and software come and go, replaced by the newest version running on the modern OS that controls the latest hardware: but we hope that our data will survive. I've got Mac files from 20 years ago that I can still open.

Had Adobe continued to sell boxed copies of Creative Suite, I would almost certainly have bought another version -- CS9? -- when I buy my 2020 iMac that only supports 128-bit apps.

But, at present, as long as my 2012 MacMini holds out, I can continue to run CS6 apps forever, without any additional costs.

Adobe has inflated the cost of using their software -- and of holding files in CS formats. And this cost is indefinite. It will continue until I throw away all my files.

THAT is the problem with this.

 

[LethalWolfe]

You keep saying computer... like the hard drive is locked to it. What does that have to do with where your PSD's are stored? people have a lot of stuff stored on external hard drives and backups of the backup. So it doesn't matter what computer you use, they'll just connect the hard drive to it to access their files.

And eventually those hard drives (assuming they'll spin up) full of PSDs will be as easy to access as a Lotus Notes document on a 5.5 inch floppy drive is today.

Granted 5wks is quite a long time, but when you have other priorities.... And imagine having to do it for a large facility?!

I agree that this is a hurdle that does not exist with perpetual license software. For a big facility I'd imagine they have a site license so it's probably all handled under a single account.

 

[tod]

It's not actually BS. Most of Adobe's teams work on schedules that don't necessarily line up with the 18 month Creative Suite release window. Every release of CS since v. 1, we've had some apps that get great new features, and some that get almost nothing...except a new loading screen and dock icon.

And you know that there have been times when the latest version of InDesign was ready to go, but there wasn't a CS release scheduled for 10 more months, so they just shelved it and waited until the whole suite was ready to go.

Now we will get the latest version of things when they are available, and not when the next major version of the Suite is all ready to go.

So? Ditch the arbitrary 18 month cycle. Offer an upgrade when the upgrade is ready to be born. But don't tell me that the only way to make it happen is by going subscription only. That's a financial decision, not a technical one.

 

[LethalWolfe]

So? Ditch the arbitrary 18 month cycle. Offer an upgrade when the upgrade is ready to be born. But don't tell me that the only way to make it happen is by going subscription only. That's a financial decision, not a technical one.

Selling a collection of apps as a bundle then later selling individual upgrades to each app in the bundle only to sell the bundle again 12-18 months laters sounds like a royal PITA. Long story short, due to accounting regulations passed in the wake of Enron, it's very complicated for Abobe to do something like sell you an app then offer a free upgrade to the app that adds functionality. Avid is currently doing an internal investigation to make sure they didn't run afoul of these accounting laws when they issued bug fixes and upgrades over the past few years. Remember when iPod Touch users had to pay for iOS updates but iPhone users didn't? Same laws and a key difference was whether or not the customer was on subscription service.

 

[dfelix]

What guarantees do we have against price hikes? $50 today can easily become $100 tomorrow when you have the monopoly.

 

[LethalWolfe]

What guarantees do we have against price hikes? $50 today can easily become $100 tomorrow when you have the monopoly.

With things like Story and Speedgrade Adobe is trying to offer a complete soup to nuts package and they will fail if they price themselves out of the market. The 'one size fits all' approach might actually help the really established segments (AE, PS, etc.,) from getting gouged because there is a lot of competition in the NLE and color grading segments where Abobe is much weaker.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

I am shocked that so many people here bring up the argument of opening their old files when they are 70 or 80. Really?

Okay, so 50 years later I decide to open up my CS6 project file? Couple of problems here.

No computer will last 50 years (as in I will probably go through A LOT of computers in that time).

My C64 is like 31 years old. It still works.

Any computer you get 50 years from now probably cannot run a 50 year old piece of software. There are some compatibility issues just running 15 year old software!

My C64 emulator runs my C64 programs quite well 31 years later. There's already Dos emulators. I can run Window98 (and even Windows 3.1) in VMWare with no issues (some old games are still fun that don't get along with XP very well and not at all with Win7/8). Heck, I can run old arcade games from the early '80s, even obscure ones with an emulator if I own the roms. So the idea of not being able to run something 50 years from now one way or another is a bit absurd, IMO. The software you WON'T be able to run are the ones that need online servers to function (e.g. Diablo 3) once they no longer offer them, assuming they don't offer some stand-alone feature at some point in time.

If you have the physical copy and need to reinstall it, who even knows if Abode will still be around.

Why would "Abode" need to be around for me to install software that is stand-alone? The key is to backup your stuff on external hard drives regularly and keep more than one backup. Oddly enough, most of my C64 discs still work 31 years later, but then they were using MUCH bigger blocks than PCs were (i.e. less than 1/2 the storage) so they'll take a LOT longer to degrade. It turns out that optical media using dyes (i.e. CD-R, CD-RW, DVD-R and DVD-RW) are the LEAST reliable for long term backups because the dye oxidizes and becomes useless. I had CD-R music discs crap out in less than 3 years with some brand discs and yet my Amiga 3000 hard drives from 1991-92 still work fine 20 years later. And even if they die, I don't have to worry about it since I have long since transferred their contents over to my PC and then my Mac later on and can run my entire Workbench setup and all my software using UAE, even stuff that didn't run on my Amiga 3000 but did run on an Amiga 500 (even stuff that ONLY ran on an A1000 or A500 running no newer than AmigaDos 1.2). In other words, I can run MORE Amiga software NOW than I could THEN because the emulator is a LOT more flexible than actual Amiga hardware.

I think it's a safe bet that we'll be able to run Windows 7, 8, 9, etc. virtualized 50 years from now (assuming we haven't blown ourselves up or something). Heck, you can ALREADY run them virtualized right now. If they change processors at some point, there will certainly be emulators sooner or later. In fact, Apple had a rather nice PPC emulator, but apparently they only licensed it and so unlike Windows software, it's a bit more difficult to run PPC software on a newer Intel machine.

 

[HD303]

Count me as someone who is pleased with the new cloud based apps from Adobe. I'm currently using Photoshop, Lightroom, Premier, Audition, Bridge and Encore.

Having the latest versions of the programs only empowers my work flow and at $600/yr, ($360 this year) it's cheaper than buying the full suite and having to pay for the upgrades.

My viewpoint may change down the road but as of today, Bravo!

 

[matthewjacob]

Of course this is better for Adobe. But it stinks for the rest of us.

Let's say you purchased the software for $1200 per version (of course they were cheaper years back anyways) and were using it since 1.0. Even though you probably wouldn't have purchased every version. Right now we're on version 13.0 (CS6). Your total cost would be $15,600. If you work in the industry for 50 years and they had this model back in the day and since you started, your total payment would have been $36,000. So, of course Adobe is ecstatic about this. They are increasing their profits by a huge margin. That's the only reason they are doing this.

Version 1 came out 23 years ago.

23 years x 12 months x $50 = $13,800.00

$13,800 < $15,600 Math! It's easy.

 

[anim8or]

Correction already added!

 

[tod]

Selling a collection of apps as a bundle then later selling individual upgrades to each app in the bundle only to sell the bundle again 12-18 months laters sounds like a royal PITA. Long story short, due to accounting regulations passed in the wake of Enron, it's very complicated for Abobe to do something like sell you an app then offer a free upgrade to the app that adds functionality. Avid is currently doing an internal investigation to make sure they didn't run afoul of these accounting laws when they issued bug fixes and upgrades over the past few years. Remember when iPod Touch users had to pay for iOS updates but iPhone users didn't? Same laws and a key difference was whether or not the customer was on subscription service.

True perhaps, but not what I said at all. Update = free. Upgrade = paid.

Nothing is stopping Adobe from moving each individual app to its own paid upgrade cycle, and then individually offering that app as a paid upgrade in addition to the cloud thing. Saying that moving the platform to cloud only will help the innovation is marketing BS. An app that you subscribe to monthly and then download the binary for can also be offered as a pay-once, download-once app.

Besides, both the cloud in general and their cloud in particular is of no value. No computation is done in the cloud. You get storage -- like I'm going to store my valuable files on a server controlled by someone else, saved in a format that means if I stop paying the money, I will lose access to the files.

Let's be direct about what this is really about, at its core. This is about you becoming enslaved to Adobe. You pay them money in order to access your software and use your files -- money which has to be earned through your continued labor. The industry may not think of it in these terms explicitly, but it's true.

If you subscribe to apps, you are making yourself a slave for an indefinite period of time. If I buy software traditionally and make a bunch of files with it, sure it cost me money, but at least I know that I can access, use, and manipulate those files forever without paying anyone a cent (as long as I maintain a system capable of running the software I paid for). You buy into cloud software-as-service and you become an indentured servant.

 

[Timewinder]

I am shocked that so many people here bring up the argument of opening their old files when they are 70 or 80. Really?

Okay, so 50 years later I decide to open up my CS6 project file? Couple of problems here.

No computer will last 50 years (as in I will probably go through A LOT of computers in that time).
Any computer you get 50 years from now probably cannot run a 50 year old piece of software. There are some compatibility issues just running 15 year old software!
If you have the physical copy and need to reinstall it, who even knows if Abode will still be around. The license server might be shut down for CS6. Didn't they shut down the license server for CS2 recently? That is only 4 versions behind!

If you really want to view your project 50 years later, you need to upgrade every release. That way you can use Photoshop version 5000 on Windows 2063 (if even Microsoft is still around by then!) to see your files.

What if 50 years later computers as we know it today are gone?

It is good to think about the future, but to think you can pull out your old CS6 discs 50 years later and use them is just ridiculous. Lots of things could happen by then. You might find yourself on eBay spending $400,000 on a 50 year old computer just so you can open the files, or you could have just been upgrading your project files.

This is the same as those that never wanted to move VHS to DVD. Luckily those types of conversion devices are still around. What will you do 50 years later when you want to watch those VHS tapes you never moved over to digital?

You always want to keep upgrading your stuff with things like this.

In a way, you made an argument against your own point, by suggesting that even within a short period of time, you might not be able to continue opening your files, nevermind 50 years later. And this is the case with a pay-as-you-play kind of subscription model. You don't pay, you don't get to play... even if your files are only a few days old, let alone a few years. Also, a new version of software in the "cloud" could easily drop support for any older file versions, even well before your computer is obsolete.

On a side note, don't forget about emulation. Sometimes older software can be run in emulators. Not indefinitely obviously, but newer & faster computers allow for this (if an emulator for any OS or application is created for it).

VHS to DVD is not a good comparison, because VHS is analog and deteriorates organically, whereas a digital file can technically be renewed indefinitely without loss to quality (if not recompressed or altered when migrating to new storage). Also, ironically it is old "analog" film preservation that even allowed for many movies to be redigitized to HD, well after DVD resolution versions were first marketed. So if the the old analog film was destroyed prematurely at the migration from VHS to DVD, then the HD versions would not be possible as a new and higher detailed digital format.

 

[Badagri]

And what will you do with that external drive 50 years later? You cannot run adobe directly on the external hard drive. It needs a computer to run a program. So what will you do with the external drive? That is right, plug it into a computer that can run a program to read the files.

I don't know, I've never had a hard drive for 50 years, let alone 20 years but I never keep the same stuff on drives endlessly. You know that thing called transferring? and cloning? most people I know now use their SSD's as an OS drive while keeping mechanicals for their projects and source material.

My point was, even if you own it, chances are you cannot use CS6 50 years later. Lots of reasons as to why. So why is that an argument against Creative Cloud?

I know some people that still use Photoshop 5.5. Granted 5.5 has a lot of issues reading layers with layered effects, nested layer groups and smart objects and so on.

Sometimes you make it sound like nearly everyone is on the latest and greatest.

And eventually those hard drives (assuming they'll spin up) full of PSDs will be as easy to access as a Lotus Notes document on a 5.5 inch floppy drive is today.

Does nobody read? thats why I said multiple backups. Serious people don't keep the same stuff on 5 year old or 10 year old hard drives. They're transferring old and new files to newer hard drives over the years. And they usually have the same stuff across many hard drives, so if one fails you can pull it from the next.

Organised people keep the important files on the latest hard drives while the not so important stuff that can easily be obtained again on the older hard drives. Thats why they usually always keep 2 - 3 - 4 hard drives with the same stuff.

I know people as soon as a new hard drive is on the market they are away getting it storing their photos, psd's etc as well as cloning their SSD's.

 

[scottsjack]

Does nobody read? thats why I said multiple backups. Serious people don't keep the same stuff on 5 year old or 10 year old hard drives. They're transferring old and new files to newer hard drives over the years. And they usually have the same stuff across many hard drives, so if one fails you can pull it from the next.

Organised people keep the important files on the latest hard drives while the not so important stuff that can easily be obtained again on the older hard drives. Thats why they usually always keep 2 - 3 - 4 hard drives with the same stuff.

I know people as soon as a new hard drive is on the market they are away getting it storing their photos, psd's etc as well as cloning their SSD's.

Good point. My first digital files were massive 1.2Mp Kodak JPGs from 1999. My first Nikon NEFs are from 2003 the first Canon CRWs are from 2004.

The Kodak and Nikon files have been on about six different computers and too many hard drive upgrades to keep track off. Even the CRWs have been on at least four machines. All those files happily live on both my Windows and Mac machines now. They're on hard drives not even dreamed about ten years ago.

Avoiding subscription software is really important to me. My Mac Pro running PS CS6 in SL or ML could easily be operating eight years from now.

 

[tech4all]

I am shocked that so many people here bring up the argument of opening their old files when they are 70 or 80. Really?

Okay, so 50 years later I decide to open up my CS6 project file? Couple of problems here.

No computer will last 50 years (as in I will probably go through A LOT of computers in that time).
Any computer you get 50 years from now probably cannot run a 50 year old piece of software. There are some compatibility issues just running 15 year old software!
If you have the physical copy and need to reinstall it, who even knows if Abode will still be around. The license server might be shut down for CS6. Didn't they shut down the license server for CS2 recently? That is only 4 versions behind!

If you really want to view your project 50 years later, you need to upgrade every release. That way you can use Photoshop version 5000 on Windows 2063 (if even Microsoft is still around by then!) to see your files.

What if 50 years later computers as we know it today are gone?

It is good to think about the future, but to think you can pull out your old CS6 discs 50 years later and use them is just ridiculous. Lots of things could happen by then. You might find yourself on eBay spending $400,000 on a 50 year old computer just so you can open the files, or you could have just been upgrading your project files.

This is the same as those that never wanted to move VHS to DVD. Luckily those types of conversion devices are still around. What will you do 50 years later when you want to watch those VHS tapes you never moved over to digital?

You always want to keep upgrading your stuff with things like this.

You missed the point completely. It's not about 50 years down the road. It's the fact that if you stop paying, you say bye bye to the apps and access to your files.

----------

That's certainly one way to look at it. If I have no customers this month, I don't pay to use Cloud. If I have customers, I pay $50 to use it. Certainly easier than dropping $2000+ on Creative Suite all at once.

No offense, but that's not a good way to run a business. You don't use the software only if you have customers. Using software isn't limited to customer work. People do learn how to do new things with their software. So by your view if you have no customers you don't rent the apps, you don't better yourself.

----------

Version 1 came out 23 years ago.

23 years x 12 months x $50 = $13,800.00

$13,800 < $15,600 Math! It's easy.

Not everyone upgrades every year.