Adobe Flash Player Initiative for Smartphones Launched, But iPhone Not Included

[kbrittle]

No. You are the one not getting the point. Your trying to make your point that Flash is fine because others want it and that makes no sense. What does "what some users want" have to do with whether Flash runs poorly? You want to spend your time bashing other Mac users? Fine but your arguments hold no basis in reality or logic. Even when provided with a link which showed evidence that Flash runs poorly on the Mac, you didn't bother to read it and still continued to make an illogical argument.

ugh, you are not getting my point, i've reiterated it several times in this thread.

I did not come here to compare specs/benchmarks/performance of flash.

I just thought it very fanboyish of people to love flash when they were getting it and hate it when news broke that they were not getting it.

You probably aren't a fanboy since it seems you have maintained the same opinion both before and after you found out Apple wasn't doing flash.

HOWEVER, the majority of others, made no such decision based on performance, they started hating Flash because they weren't getting it on the iphone. That is, unless performance changed, which according to you, it hasn't.

You are one of the exceptions *pats you on the back*

And to prove to you that flash runs well on MY machine, should I record a video or something, I love how your article is telling me how my real life experience is, Newsflash: most people experience their software in real life terms, your average consumer doesn't give a crap about benchmarks, let alone even know what it means. If it runs smoothly, they go about their day.

i am now blue in the face, peace.

 

[telecomm]

A large group of people post about wanting Flash- when it was announced that it was coming, and it seemed like it was going to

Another large group of people post about not wanting Flash- before Apple announced they weren't going to do it? if so, where? Because based on the thread i showed you, you're wrong. of course you wont counter with an actual post (because it doesn't exist?)

do you have anything to back your claims? I want to stand corrected, believe me...

Let me see if I've got this right. You want to see people posting about not wanting Flash on the iPhone before Apple made any iPhone Flash announcements?

Somehow I doubt you'll be satisfied, but here are a couple from last year.

Unless Flash becomes actually reasonable on OS X, I see no reason it should be on the iPhone.

I hope Flash never comes to the iPhone.

For me (and maybe the majority of users), unless there's a adblock app available, I don't want flash on my iPhone.

I don't need no flash on my iPhone.

All from September 2008, all from the same thread. Google was helpful.

 

[kbrittle]

Let me see if I've got this right. You want to see people posting about not wanting Flash on the iPhone before Apple made any iPhone Flash announcements?

Somehow I doubt you'll be satisfied, but here are a couple from last year.

Unless Flash becomes actually reasonable on OS X, I see no reason it should be on the iPhone.

I hope Flash never comes to the iPhone.

For me (and maybe the majority of users), unless there's a adblock app available, I don't want flash on my iPhone.

I don't need no flash on my iPhone.

All from September 2008, all from the same thread. Google was helpful.

Four single posts? Lol

Adobe Flash Support for iPhone Coming Alongside SDK?

Submitted by Mykbibby
Rating (223 Positives; 54 Negatives)
[ 146 comments ]

223 is a bigger number than 54, no? A majority you would say? Over four times as many positives? Does that not support my claim?

You need some math classes, I'm done though seriously this time lol, you wont concede despite clear numbers that show i am ever so right

now, excuse me while I go fall asleep to hulu on my wonderful

 

[telecomm]

Four single posts? Lol

Adobe Flash Support for iPhone Coming Alongside SDK?

Submitted by Mykbibby
Rating (223 Positives; 54 Negatives)
[ 146 comments ]

223 is a bigger number than 54, no? A majority you would say? Over four times as many positives? Does that not support my claim?

You need some math classes, I'm done though seriously this time lol, you wont concede despite clear numbers that show i am ever so right

now, excuse me while I go fall asleep to hulu on my wonderful

Look, you started by criticizing dejo's claim that

There were plenty of people 6 months ago that didn't want Flash then either.

by pointing out that a certain thread had a majority of positive votes.

Even a majority of people thinking Flash would be great doesn't mean that plenty of people don't like it or don't care. There are plenty of both Republicans and Democrats, and that isn't confusing, right?

Is that all you're arguing about?

My point was just that, even before the restrictions preventing current versions of Flash on the iPhone were widely publicized, many people didn't care/didn't want it anyway. I provided four posts to support this, and you can Google for more if you're interested. (There are more, or course.)

I don't know which group (wanting Flash, not caring/not wanting Flash) is in the majority, but that doesn't affect the view I've been advocating (nor the view advocated by dejo that you initially criticized).

 

[kdarling]

BTW you should watch the video of the GPU powered Webkit tech that was posted on MacRumors a month ago. Theoretically you could provide gaming without a plugin like Flash. Apple is actively promoting these standards.

That would be nice. However...

Claims that Apple is promoting standardized HTML would be more believable if they didn't rely on HTML meta-tags to make mobile sites look good only for the iPhone.

If Flash runs like crap on the Mac, how do you think it will be on the iPhone which is built on OSX with far less processing power?

The whole point is that Adobe (who didn't create Flash, but bought it) is doing a complete mobile performance rewrite with the cooperation of ARM and GPU designers. That's a good thing.

Personally, I want the video playback so news sites aren't half worthless on the "real internet" that mobile Safari gives us.

Professionally, I'm for any cross-platform development system.

 

[dejo]

i never said all. i simply rephrased it (corrected it) for you.

No, you didn't. Nicolasdec did. And it was their claim of "all" that I was disputing. I don't even know why you felt the need to enter into that argument and "rephrase" what I was saying. The point you've been buggering on about here ("People are flip-flopping now that Apple has said no to Flash") is not even the same one I was trying to bring up about Nicolasdec's statement ("6 months ago not everyone was happy about Flash coming").

Submitted by Mykbibby
Rating (223 Positives; 54 Negatives)
[ 146 comments ]
...
You need some math classes...

And you need some statistics classes. Just because the majority were positive before and now are negative, does not prove anything. The way this data for these positive/negative ratings is gathered is not statistically accurate because it is not a random sampling but instead voluntarily submitted. Plus, you cannot even guarantee the group sample is the same across both "surveys". This would be needed in order to show that there was some significant change in the results of a particular group.

 

[ThatsMeRight]

This is just idiot from Apple. This flash player for mobile phones is created in a way it almost doesn't drain the battery if it isn't used and to give the same computer-experience, but doesn't uses that much processor power.

I like it that Apple is trying to get HTML5 more used etc., but there are still a lot of websites out there which uses flash... and I would like to be able to visit them.

Why won't they include it? I mean, they think it drains the battery life faster. Well, make an on and off switch: people who don't want flash, just turn it off.

Not enough processor power? Well, than make it 3Gs-only (and iPod Touch 3th gen.) or something like that.

EDIT: And oh, this special developed flash player for mobile phones actually supports (multi-)touch gestures and landscape/portrait mode.

 

[flottenheimer]

I'd love to be able to visit websites and interact with content that use Flash. If it ever becomes available for iPhone/Touch my last complaint about the device will be addressed. (Just added my work-mail/calender using Microsoft Exchange to my Touch today. What a smooth experience - what a brilliant device : )

 

[str1f3]

That would be nice. However...

Claims that Apple is promoting standardized HTML would be more believable if they didn't rely on HTML meta-tags to make mobile sites look good only for the iPhone.

It's always been clear that Apple uses standards because it's to their advantage. I'm not agreeing with Apple because it is Apple. I agree with Apple to the extent that it is in my own best interests (and the web's best interest) to have it not be controlled by a proprietary plugin.

The whole point is that Adobe (who didn't create Flash, but bought it) is doing a complete mobile performance rewrite with the cooperation of ARM and GPU designers. That's a good thing.

That is all true ,but in my view, it is unnecessary. We are reaching a point where we no longer need Flash. Regardless of whether Flash is GPU accelerated or not, there will be a performance hit because the video is in a Flash wrapper with all kinds off copy protection. Flash was always built to better run on a Windows desktop. How is Flash going to perform on seven different mobile platforms? So far it remains to be seen what is the performance hit with Flash 10 on a mobile device. What is clear now is that Flash does not run well at all on mobile phones.

Personally, I want the video playback so news sites aren't half worthless on the "real internet" that mobile Safari gives us.

You and I already know (as many others) that if you want to rip a Flash video off a website you can do it. The big companies have to be weened off the belief that Flash will protect their content just like they did with Real player. It is untrue and no longer possible.

Professionally, I'm for any cross-platform development system.

I am for a cross-platform development system just not a unnecessary proprietary one.

 

[macUser2007]

... We are reaching a point where we no longer need Flash....

Excuse me, but who is this "we?" A few back-room guys, who are so deep in the back-end, they can't even fathom the advantages Flash offers to 99% of the rest of the world?

The same type of back-room guys, who are so vocal on other forums, about how they don't get why anyone would buy a "proprietary, locked-up piece of fluff" like the iPhone?

Let me put it this way: Flash is currently on virtually every computer on earth. Soon, it will be on virtually every "smart-phone" on Earth. If the iPhone doesn't have it, and soon, it will be the biggest selling point for Android, and all the rest of the multitouch competitors.

And without the "cool" of Flash movies and Flash sites, the "cool" of the iPhone will be lost, in a flash....

 

[RazHyena]

Flash is a zit on the ass of internet technology.

Begone proprietary garbage!

Wow. And on an Apple forum.

Epic Fail.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

You and I already know (as many others) that if you want to rip a Flash video off a website you can do it. The big companies have to be weened off the belief that Flash will protect their content just like they did with Real player. It is untrue and no longer possible.

What should they use besides flash video? Quicktime? Windows Media? Real Player (sorry, I couldn't even keep a straight face typing that last one!)

The only one that will reach 95% of people out there with the least amount of grief is flash.

Ah well, at least we can laugh about Real Player.

 

[str1f3]

What should they use besides flash video? Quicktime? Windows Media? Real Player (sorry, I couldn't even keep a straight face typing that last one!)

The only one that will reach 95% of people out there with the least amount of grief is flash.

Ah well, at least we can laugh about Real Player.

I don't think you understand. Both Microsoft and Apple have long since licensed h.264. You can use Windows Media Player and Quicktime since that every single Windows computer already uses it. I don't see how you can say Flash reaches more people when most times now it is a Flash wrapper around an h.264 file. The support for h.264 is already here on greater than 95% of the computers.

Excuse me, but who is this "we?" A few back-room guys, who are so deep in the back-end, they can't even fathom the advantages Flash offers to 99% of the rest of the world?

The same type of back-room guys, who are so vocal on other forums, about how they don't get why anyone would buy a "proprietary, locked-up piece of fluff" like the iPhone?

Let me put it this way: Flash is currently on virtually every computer on earth. Soon, it will be on virtually every "smart-phone" on Earth. If the iPhone doesn't have it, and soon, it will be the biggest selling point for Android, and all the rest of the multitouch competitors.

And without the "cool" of Flash movies and Flash sites, the "cool" of the iPhone will be lost, in a flash....

That "we" wasn't adressed at you and you should pay better attention.

Look let me put it this way so you can understand: h.264 is already viewable by virtually every desktop on this planet and is already available on all current smartphones. Your comments on the iPhone have no place here because people can choose to not buy an iPhone. Unfortunately people cannot avoid Flash. Yes it is widely used but it is no longer needed. H.264 is available to more desktops and phones than Flash is and things like WebGL and HTML5 will remove the need for Flash in gaming and those "cool" websites you speak of.

As to your last statement you prove your lack understanding of what this is about. Those "cool" sites you speak are found annoying by most people because it was never intended to be a use for Flash. Those "cool" sites are considered tacky and hogs the CPU worse than watching a Hulu video (which already uses 50% CPU on a Quad Core Mac Pro). Those "cool" sites will be able to be done in HTML5 so you can enjoy a horribly designed website to your hearts' content.

 

[kdarling]

Just ran across a couple of interesting mobile Flash demos.

First, the new Nokia N900 capacitive touchscreen smartphone, running a version of Maemo and full Flash 9.2. Check out the Flash at 3:40 into the film:

http://www.intomobile.com/2009/10/09/hands-on-the-nokia-n900-at-ctia-fall-2009.html

Second, a demo of mobile Flash 10.1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pee3nT4bPw4

Cheers.

 

[kate-willbury]

It's always been clear that Apple uses standards because it's to their advantage. I'm not agreeing with Apple because it is Apple. I agree with Apple to the extent that it is in my own best interests (and the web's best interest) to have it not be controlled by a proprietary plugin.





That is all true ,but in my view, it is unnecessary. We are reaching a point where we no longer need Flash. Regardless of whether Flash is GPU accelerated or not, there will be a performance hit because the video is in a Flash wrapper with all kinds off copy protection. Flash was always built to better run on a Windows desktop. How is Flash going to perform on seven different mobile platforms? So far it remains to be seen what is the performance hit with Flash 10 on a mobile device. What is clear now is that Flash does not run well at all on mobile phones.



You and I already know (as many others) that if you want to rip a Flash video off a website you can do it. The big companies have to be weened off the belief that Flash will protect their content just like they did with Real player. It is untrue and no longer possible.



I am for a cross-platform development system just not a unnecessary proprietary one.

you'd have to be a complete moron to complain about proprietary systems and yet defend apple, the most proprietary vendor ever???

 

[kate-willbury]

I don't think you understand. Both Microsoft and Apple have long since licensed h.264. You can use Windows Media Player and Quicktime since that every single Windows computer already uses it. I don't see how you can say Flash reaches more people when most times now it is a Flash wrapper around an h.264 file. The support for h.264 is already here on greater than 95% of the computers.



That "we" wasn't adressed at you and you should pay better attention.

Look let me put it this way so you can understand: h.264 is already viewable by virtually every desktop on this planet and is already available on all current smartphones. Your comments on the iPhone have no place here because people can choose to not buy an iPhone. Unfortunately people cannot avoid Flash. Yes it is widely used but it is no longer needed. H.264 is available to more desktops and phones than Flash is and things like WebGL and HTML5 will remove the need for Flash in gaming and those "cool" websites you speak of.

As to your last statement you prove your lack understanding of what this is about. Those "cool" sites you speak are found annoying by most people because it was never intended to be a use for Flash. Those "cool" sites are considered tacky and hogs the CPU worse than watching a Hulu video (which already uses 50% CPU on a Quad Core Mac Pro). Those "cool" sites will be able to be done in HTML5 so you can enjoy a horribly designed website to your hearts' content.

lol. html5 isn't even going to be widely adopted for more than 2 decades.