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Adobe Has 'Moved On' in Dispute With Apple Over Flash on iOS Devices

swb1192 said:
To tell you the truth -- I don't think Apple has learned. They need to get a move-on. As much as I hate my Droid, Android is becoming so widespread. And to top it off, AT&T reps aren't recommending people buy the iPhone 4.

I talked to a client of mine who went to the AT&T store to get a new phone. He wanted an iPhone. The rep said, "Oh, you shouldn't buy that. Those are on recall. Here's a Droid." How ridiculous.
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That's crazy! Don't worry, the iPhone is getting revised and will launch on Verizon and other carriers in the coming months! But YES, they waited TOO LONG to counter strike on other networks against Android! :(

rileyes said:
They said "open systems" not "open software"....
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Keep drinking Adobe's cool aide! :rolleyes: Closed and proprietary PERIOD!
 
I would rather see Adobe moving on to new technologies, instead of relying too much on Flash. My MacBook turns into a hot iron after just five minutes of web browsing, thanks to Adobe Flash. I would turn it off when I could, but I just can't. Luckily, the ClickToFlash extension blocks all uses of Flash and still lets me watch my favourite videos on YouTube and Vimeo. I dearly hope that more websites will offer Flash-free alternatives in the near future, so that I can finally pull the switch on Flash.
 
swb1192 said:
To tell you the truth -- I don't think Apple has learned. They need to get a move-on. As much as I hate my Droid, Android is becoming so widespread. And to top it off, AT&T reps aren't recommending people buy the iPhone 4.

I talked to a client of mine who went to the AT&T store to get a new phone. He wanted an iPhone. The rep said, "Oh, you shouldn't buy that. Those are on recall. Here's a Droid." How ridiculous.
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Apple is different now. If a consumer is presented two products with the same price, which will he choose? Of course the one that is better. Right? This was not the situation in the Windows vs Mac days. PC stores are everywhere. The consumer has no way to know Mac is better despite us Mac users are telling each other Macs are better during our get togethers.

Today, the consumer can easily play with the iPhone at hundreds of Apple stores around the world. The Android phones try to hide their shortcomings from the end of user. But this is not the Windows PC days anymore.
 
Flash players keep crashing on my new Macbook Pro

There is a serious problem of the Flash Player. Using Safari, the Activity Monitor will show the Flash Player using more and more memory. It will keep on rising to above 1.0 GB. Then at some point the Flash Player simply crashes. This has happened numerous times on my Macbook Pro 13" purchased only a few months ago.

How could iPhone run such a memory hog that will crash?
 
KnightWRX said:
What's sad is that after all the threads about this and even posts in this very thread, people can still post comments like these. Why do you even believe for a second that Adobe claims Flash is open because it's popular ? I think when they claim Flash is open, they do so based on the fact that they have released a nearly complete specification for it :

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/swf/

And that said specification can be used and has been used to implement 3rd party runtimes that can playback Flash content without using Adobe's Flash player :

http://www.gnashdev.org/

It's funny how a lot of people try to comment on something without ever trying to see if what they are typing is even remotely true. On the Internet of all places, where proving them wrong is a Google search away.
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Nearly complete. Not complete enough that you would be able to watch Hulu using a player made from the published spec.

And what does it say about the spec that Gnash is 3 versions behind the current Flash Player?
 
pooryou said:
Yeah, an incomplete specification of the file format, with huge limits what you can do with it.
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The only parts missing are related to the DRM server. Everything else is there. The only thing you can't implement is a Hulu compatible runtime (or any other DRM streaming service).
 
nagromme said:
If Flash can be done so it performs fast, doesn’t drain the battery, handles click-vs.-mouseover intuitively, and doesn’t throw monkey wrench into Apple’s own future OS updates, then I’ll support Adobe in this. (But I’ll never pretend they’re “open”—in fact, Apple’s Flash-less Webkit browser IS very open.)

Since none of those are the case, however, it’s one “freedom” I don’t want :)

I DO want Adobe to make truly outstanding HTML 5 tools. I can see that happening eventually—but it will take a while. (Although I’m a Flash developer, I wouldn’t even consider Flash to be a truly outstanding Flash tool :p )

No. Developers/advertisers would stop using Flash, because they’re not willing to give up the Mac segment of the user base. Adobe’s not that stupid. And they’ve been actually improving Mac Flash lately. (VERY late.)
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They're improving it but one also has to acknowledge that it is a two way street when you consider NPAPI and hardware access and why Flash via NPAPI is so utterly horrible when compared to Flash via ActiveX for example. It has only been recently for example that Apple took it upon themselves to add some of the proposed features of 'NPAPI Pepper Extensions' which has allowed Adobe in turn to use Core Animation in Flash animations - even then it is only for Safari on Snow Leopard. Then there is the issue of Video Decoding Acceleration - you can't turn around bad mouthing someone for failing to do all they can when you as the operating system vendor fail to provide the frameworks and extensions required - if Microsoft can provide a uniform framework under the rubric of DXVA then there is nothing stopping Apple from doing the same - provide the damn frameworks and then sit back to see whether Adobe actually does a decent job once the tools are provided.

Btw, it is only recently that Apple has started using Core Animation when it comes to CSS animations - before then they were horribly slow. The devoted here seem to ignore all the evidence there is in favour of a fervour pitched screeching and whining over the so-called 'evils' of Adobe.
 
Mattie Num Nums said:
All you Adobe haters I hope you don't use PDF's as well!
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I don't think people hate Adobe, i think they just hate Flash and have a very good reason to do so. Haters hate regardless of it being good or bad, that's why they are called haters. I for example do not use Flash since 2004 (long before going Mac).
 
KnightWRX said:
The only parts missing are related to the DRM server. Everything else is there. The only thing you can't implement is a Hulu compatible runtime (or any other DRM streaming service).
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Which makes the released standard useless for well over half of what Flash is used for. Its like Microsoft releasing a DirectX standard but doesn't release the part that interacts with the Kernel and Drivers.
 
macintoshtoffy said:
They're improving it but one also has to acknowledge that it is a two way street when you consider NPAPI and hardware access and why Flash via NPAPI is so utterly horrible when compared to Flash via ActiveX for example. It has only been recently for example that Apple took it upon themselves to add some of the proposed features of 'NPAPI Pepper Extensions' which has allowed Adobe in turn to use Core Animation in Flash animations - even then it is only for Safari on Snow Leopard. Then there is the issue of Video Decoding Acceleration - you can't turn around bad mouthing someone for failing to do all they can when you as the operating system vendor fail to provide the frameworks and extensions required - if Microsoft can provide a uniform framework under the rubric of DXVA then there is nothing stopping Apple from doing the same - provide the damn frameworks and then sit back to see whether Adobe actually does a decent job once the tools are provided.

Btw, it is only recently that Apple has started using Core Animation when it comes to CSS animations - before then they were horribly slow. The devoted here seem to ignore all the evidence there is in favour of a fervour pitched screeching and whining over the so-called 'evils' of Adobe.
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Flash was crap on Windows too back in a day and long before all hardware accelerations were available Flash was even more crappier on Mac OS X (that's what i find looking into 5-6 years old forum messages all over the internet).
 
Žalgiris said:
Flash was crap on Windows too back in a day and long before all hardware accelerations were available Flash was even more crappier on Mac OS X (that's what i find looking into 5-6 years old forum messages all over the internet).
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Flash won out because it was only slightly better than anything else available at the time.
 
MacRumors said:



Telegraph.co.uk publishes an interview with Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen in which he discusses his company's long-running dispute with Apple over the device maker's decision not to include support for Flash in its iOS devices such as the iPad, iPhone, and iPod touch. In the interview, Narayan appears to note that Adobe has given up on its efforts to convince Apple to adopt Flash.The dispute between the two companies came to a head in late April when Apple CEO Steve Jobs posted an open letter describing his "Thoughts on Flash" and outlining the controversy from his point of view. Narayan quickly responded in his company's defense, attempting to contrast Apple's "closed" ecosystem with the multi-platform, "open" stance taken by Adobe.

The U.S. Federal Trade Commission and the European Commission are currently pursuing an investigation of Apple over its business practices with respect to Flash technology.

Article Link: Adobe Has 'Moved On' in Dispute With Apple Over Flash on iOS Devices
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FTC and EC investigating Apple? Lol last time I checked Apple could do whatever the heck they want, the products belong to them.

Nooow Adobe's getting the point, go scratch . . . goodbye. :cool:
 
Sony is stupid. They've done only 2 good things in their career... Sega, and its game Sonic the Hedgehog :)

But it's 2010, not the 90s!
 
Meanwhile, the Commissions are investigating Apple for not "opening" its platform to the completely Adobe-owned, proprietary, and dying technology known as Flash.
 
Žalgiris said:
Flash was crap on Windows too back in a day and long before all hardware accelerations were available Flash was even more crappier on Mac OS X (that's what i find looking into 5-6 years old forum messages all over the internet).
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And not all of it due to Adobe having some sort of nefarious scheme to screw over Mac OS X users. You seem to have this idea stuck in your head that Mac OS X is absolutely perfect and without fault so that any application that doesn't work perfectly then it is automatically the fault of the software vendor.
 
macintoshtoffy said:
You seem to have this idea stuck in your head that Mac OS X is absolutely perfect and without fault so that any application that doesn't work perfectly then it is automatically the fault of the software vendor.
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What? Are you mad? I thought i was pretty clear. Even on Windows (where it has all access it needs) Flash was mediocre for years.

P.S. Silverlight, although i try to avoid it too, doesn't suck as much. How's that possible?
 
MorphingDragon said:
Which makes the released standard useless for well over half of what Flash is used for. Its like Microsoft releasing a DirectX standard but doesn't release the part that interacts with the Kernel and Drivers.
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And HTML5 is any better at that part? The one Apple is backing is more convoluted and patent encumbered that flash. At least with flash if you are not using DRM for the videos which happens to be a vast majority of the flash videos out there.... it does not require any special licenses. .h264 is not being supported by Mozilla because they can not afford to pay the fees for it. Apple refuses to support the free open standard one. On that front I honestly hopes it kills Safari even more with 94-96% of the browser market fully supporting WebM.

IE will support once the codex are downloaded and the others are fully supporting it.

Sorry for that rant here but Video on HTML5 is no where close to having a standard yet and h264 is not being supported by some major players in the browser wars. WebM is not being supported by only a minor player in Browser wars (Apple)
 
tzeshan said:
Apple is different now. If a consumer is presented two products with the same price, which will he choose? Of course the one that is better. Right? This was not the situation in the Windows vs Mac days. PC stores are everywhere. The consumer has no way to know Mac is better despite us Mac users are telling each other Macs are better during our get togethers.

Today, the consumer can easily play with the iPhone at hundreds of Apple stores around the world. The Android phones try to hide their shortcomings from the end of user. But this is not the Windows PC days anymore.
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Meanwhile the consumer can get Android phones from tens of thousands of stores around the world, and Symbian phones from hundreds of thousands of stores...
 
KnightWRX said:
The only parts missing are related to the DRM server. Everything else is there. The only thing you can't implement is a Hulu compatible runtime (or any other DRM streaming service).
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...which is the very big reason to keep supporting Flash (as opposet to HTML5 only), according to YouTube/Google.

The bottom line is: the 'open spec' Flash is no better than the video tag.
 
It's a business decision. With the energy and innovation that our company has, we'd rather focus on people who want to deliver the best experience with Flash and there are so many of them
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Hmmm, even the companies that already support Flash fully on their phones are moving to HTML5 Web runtimes for that kind of app/widget.

eg.

Nokia - Flash support http://www.forum.nokia.com/Develop/Other_Technologies/Flash_lite/

Don't be confused by the "lite" tag - it's effectively Flash 8 with 10's video support currently. Or on the N900, it's Flash 9 with 10's video support. Full Flash v10 support is due.


But then Nokia have a full Web Runtime and a new Qt based Web Runtime based on WebKit. Both of them much richer than Flash and able to access more core phone functionality than Flash.

http://www.forum.nokia.com/Develop/Web/

Notice which one is "Other Technologies".
 
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