He actually said closed source. Again what's your point? Flash Player is closed source. iOS is closed source.
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Adobe Has 'Moved On' in Dispute With Apple Over Flash on iOS Devices
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He actually said closed source. Again what's your point? Flash Player is closed source. iOS is closed source.
Adobe Stinks
Ah yes, so Adobe is "moving on"... good riddance! What a over-bloated arrogant company! They abandoned Apple users years ago when they didn't port FrameMaker to OS X (though ironically they have a version of it for Solaris!) and they've got 50 apps that do essentially 7 different things with huge overlap in capabilities... I've never seen a company so ridiculously over-priced and bloated as Adobe...
Ah yes, so Adobe is "moving on"... good riddance! What a over-bloated arrogant company! They abandoned Apple users years ago when they didn't port FrameMaker to OS X (though ironically they have a version of it for Solaris!) and they've got 50 apps that do essentially 7 different things with huge overlap in capabilities... I've never seen a company so ridiculously over-priced and bloated as Adobe...
I can see the reality distortion field is far too strong here. Everyone has blinders on it, and they have apple logos on them.
What is your point? iOS is the operating system. Flash is a closed source framework for multimedia content. You are comparing Apples to oranges. The core of iOS is darwin which is open source.
It also uses a strange profile for H264 video imbedded into FLV files which is incompatible with mobile H264 video decoding. They could have waited for the compatible profile to be finalized but they didn't and that it part of the reason why flash sucks so badly on mobile platforms for video.
In a nutshell, flash video will continue to suck on mobile devices which is why it is good that Youtube provides a regular H264 version of most of their videos that will work fine on mobile devices with hardware accelerated decoding.
Apple is not trying to push their own proprietary standard, Adobe is. HTML 5 will be an open standard and H264 is an easily licensable standard from an industry group rather than one company. As I mentioned above, most new flash video is a form of H264 video anyway but just a bastardized type which is not supported by mobile hardware. Supporting flash video would require more CPU power or new decoder chips. I'd rather see flash stop using the incompatible profile and use the standard H264 profiles instead.
@fxtech: I assume that you don't write software. Correct? As a developer, I would rather see a clearly laid out API or standard than just some sloppy undocumented "open source" code. I should be able to write my own efficient implementation of a standard without any pollution of code from outside sources. My code should be testable against the standard in a unit test and also work the same way when run against the actual system I'm coding against in a "live" environment.
Flash is neither open source or an open standard. Someone has documented part of the format through reverse engineering but that is not "OPEN".
What in the world are you talking about?
I'm not comparing anything. I just asked what his point was. That's all.
I agree with you completely.
It is highly debated all over the web if it is truly OPEN and FREE, many people see it as a submarine patent minefield. It also as of yet is not popular and does not offer (shipping) hardware decoding on any devices. This makes the codec (right now at least) not a big player, although over time if it gets popular it might get wider adoption. Personally I think H264 has won this round as it is used in everything from Blueray down to mini video recorders, becoming the ubiquitous standard.
As soon as someone makes the plugin available on the Mac for QuickTime it will just work in all versions of Safari and all over the OS. So far nobody has compiled the source code and make a plugin available. Basically Apple's work is already done, Safari is compatible all you need is the plugin. I think future versions of Perian should add support for WebM. Incidentally IE on Windows has the same behaviour if you install the WebM plugin it will work.
With youtube leading the way to the open and free WebM for HD material, and Apple refusing to support it, the Flash plugin might still be the only way Safari users can watch their videos....Because Flash supports WebM, of course.
Apple have not refused to support anything, in fact as soon as someone ports the codec it will work all over the OS! YouTube hosts (and has no plans to stop hosting) videos in H264 which plays natively without flash on all iOS devices, Playstation 3, Wii etc I can't see YouTube getting rid of h264 as it is used by so many embedded devices not just Apple iOS devices.
That is a bold prediction judging by the slow pickup of WebM so far and the progress of Mobile flash since the iPhone first was shipped.
The OS X API's are not really any more restrictive or not compared to the Window's OS. As someone who has worked with Apple dev for years on performance applications (games) I can tell you they don't have any secret Apple only features so make their apps super fast!
That is WAY off the truth.
The bottom end of the OS is as you mentioned based off a version of UNIX but was highly customised using a different kernel and also all of the higher end libraries and applications which make OS X are all custom code written by Apple. Microsoft's OS is based off DOS which also was bought by Microsoft from another company. Most OS's have shared histories for parts of them after all if someone makes a great idea why design it again just reuse the code!For example Apple took an open source web browser that was not popular and quite buggy and spend millions of dollars making it the best mobile browser in the world. So much so basically every mobile phone company is using it and Google even use it for Chrome.
Actually it was Adobe who could not get it working on the iPhone as Apple don't program Flash, Adobe do!
To quote Apple on this (and this part of Apple's claims have not been denied in any way by Adobe).
AppleLetterOnFlash said:
As you can see Adobe tried and failed to get Flash working on any mobile device for a couple of years so Apple gave up. If Adobe get Flash working super fast on a mobile device and is popular Apple I am sure might look at this again. But right now talking about high performance Flash on a mobile device is like talking about a unicorn. Neither of them exist outside of stories.
A Flash benchmark? All that will really show is how bad (or good) Flash is on a platform compared to another one, it won't show anything else about the devices! Hardware in iOS devices are similar to all the other hardware out there and even if you are a Google fanboy/Apple hater you have to admit the hardware in the iOS devices is on the upper end (but maybe not the best) of available hardware.
Having Flash or not having Flash is an interesting debate but it is all intellectual till Adobe actually get Flash to work well and without using up all the batteries on any mobile device. At that point Apple might start to suffer for the lack of Flash support, right now as no fully functional and high performing Flash exists so Apple are not really being effected.
The best thing I personally think Adobe can do is first design some great tools for HTML5 so they become the default app to have around for HTML5 design a bit like Photoshop is with images. Second get Flash running fast on mobile device once they have it running fast and reliable that is better ammo than anything else, perhaps release (or leak) the app on Cydia as a demo as if it runs brilliantly then Apple have less of an argument about flash support.
Right now complaining about Apple when you cannot get Flash working well on any mobile platform is not a position of strength, if Adobe have it working fast on other mobiles then the tables will turn a little.
Edwin
p.s. These thoughts are mine and mine alone and in no way reflect the views of my employer.
It seems as though no one here is a developer based on the responses I am reading.
So let me make 3 points from a developr stand point.
1). Open source and open platfoms are not all that great. With CEO'S now trying to dictate what developers can use, you should be glad
we have company backed languages who will go to bat for the developers, like Adobe.
Had Apple chosen an open source language to attack who will stand up for the developers? You want developers being dictated by ceo's and marketing tactics instead of client needs?
2). With Apple now publicly attacking adobe isn't it possible they have not liked them longer than we have known? Isn't it possible to think that, maybe flash does not run well on apple products because apple intentional locks out certain software and hardware on purpose?
There are countless articles explaining pcs that run flash out performs macs, and that the reason is apple blocks adobe from developing using full access.
3). If your complaint about flash is the ads, then I got news for you.
If/when html5 takes over, all the ads will be back.
So far, from my own personal experience, that means buying and owning an android 2.2 running flash 10.1, every single one of steve jobs complaints on flash are nothing but 100% lies.
All "roll-over"'s work fine. not found a place yet I couldnt use rollover.
Battery life is great. I watched 3 movies, that 9 hours of flash. Before I had to recharge it. And that also includes the two days of normal use in between watching the movies.
Pages run about the same wih flash on or off.
So let me make 3 points from a developr stand point.
1). Open source and open platfoms are not all that great. With CEO'S now trying to dictate what developers can use, you should be glad
we have company backed languages who will go to bat for the developers, like Adobe.
Had Apple chosen an open source language to attack who will stand up for the developers? You want developers being dictated by ceo's and marketing tactics instead of client needs?
2). With Apple now publicly attacking adobe isn't it possible they have not liked them longer than we have known? Isn't it possible to think that, maybe flash does not run well on apple products because apple intentional locks out certain software and hardware on purpose?
There are countless articles explaining pcs that run flash out performs macs, and that the reason is apple blocks adobe from developing using full access.
3). If your complaint about flash is the ads, then I got news for you.
If/when html5 takes over, all the ads will be back.
So far, from my own personal experience, that means buying and owning an android 2.2 running flash 10.1, every single one of steve jobs complaints on flash are nothing but 100% lies.
All "roll-over"'s work fine. not found a place yet I couldnt use rollover.
Battery life is great. I watched 3 movies, that 9 hours of flash. Before I had to recharge it. And that also includes the two days of normal use in between watching the movies.
Pages run about the same wih flash on or off.
Can you quote one of those lies? Not paraphrase, but actually quote. Most of the "lies" about flash are claims that fanboys and haters misunderstood and made up to fit their argument.
Here is the link:
http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/
Take my post for what it is. Believe what you want.
You're only missing out on great content you used to take for granted.
I understand you have the option to pay $3 to see the content "better" sometimes.
The net is gowing to blow up with free app style websites and platforms deploying to browsers. I am sure there will always be "an app for that" though as long as you keep paying for them.
As Steve said himself
"I think people will pay for *free* content"
*note I added *free* because -----> the discussion was about wether people will miss the free content that plugins bring to your desktop browser.
Since apple won't support it on mobile. Steve jobs said people won't miss it. In fact he thinks they'd be happier to pay extra for it.
Html5 is a smoke screen to rid you of free stuff on the net.
If it was a viable replacement for flash why does it look and run like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfmbZkqORX4
You're only missing out on great content you used to take for granted.
I understand you have the option to pay $3 to see the content "better" sometimes.
The net is gowing to blow up with free app style websites and platforms deploying to browsers. I am sure there will always be "an app for that" though as long as you keep paying for them.
As Steve said himself
"I think people will pay for *free* content"
*note I added *free* because -----> the discussion was about wether people will miss the free content that plugins bring to your desktop browser.
Since apple won't support it on mobile. Steve jobs said people won't miss it. In fact he thinks they'd be happier to pay extra for it.
Html5 is a smoke screen to rid you of free stuff on the net.
If it was a viable replacement for flash why does it look and run like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfmbZkqORX4
Exactly how Adobe is able to twist the truth into propaganda turned against Apple! Apple is supporting open standards such as HTML5 that are NOT controlled by Apple nor does Apple benefit from them in any way! These are open approved standards, not proprietary ad ons that benefit the company that creates and controls it!
Adobe needs to just shut their whining mouths and embrace the inevitable future!
Not trolling, just asking you to provide evidence of your claim. I'm not "missing out on great content used to take for granted" because I've been disabling Flash for more than 5 years. I agree that Apple fanboys have made up lies about Flash to justify it not being on iOS devices. But none of the comments that Jobs made in his "Thoughts on Flash" were lies.
I'm not sure what you are talking about here. Are you talking about web apps? If so, they will run fine on iOS device as long as they are written to the open standards.
Except you added the part about "free" to what he actually said.
I think BALDIMAC needs to carefully re-read my posts on this page. Actually everyone should.
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/10858864/
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/10859076/
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/10858864/
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/10859076/
Some one *gets* it! I'm tired of people making blanket statements that "flash sucks". I've done both HTML 5 and Flash/Flex development and the flex SDK is pretty powerful. Much if it is actually open source and as someone else mentioned there is a plug-in for Eclipse.
One day I would like people to put action to their words. I would like to make a challenge for anyone up to it ... lets make a simple online game ... say checkers or connect four. It must be done in 4 hours and must work on IE, Firefox and Chrome. I'll use Flash and you use HTML 5 (Good luck with HTML 5 on IE). I can already predict the results.
I understand why apple doesn't support Flash, and to an extent I agree. But Flash is more then something that people use for online adds. It's a credible technology that surpasses the capabilities of HTML5.
I read your posts. The only thing that I am questioning is your claim that "every single one of steve jobs complaints on flash are nothing but 100% lies." I asked you to quote one claim from his "Thoughts on Flash" that is a lie. Why is that difficult if you believe what you say?
Are you referring to your comment about rollovers? I'm not sure how that is a direct quote from Steve Jobs, but whatever. How do you rollover something if the action is reserved for scrolling the page?
Wow! Have you even seen an Android phone, or have you looked at the Android Market.
Virtually every application I was using on my iPhone is available for purchase on Android. The only exception I can think of is Star Walk, but then Google provides the same functionality for free, so I don't miss it, really.
But everything else is so much better integrated:
Calendar and contacts sync automatically over the air with my Mac Address Book and iCal, by using Google Calendar and GMail Address Book.
Google Voice is so well integrated, I make most my calls through it, totally transparently. Same for texting. Same for visual voicemail, which also includes transcripts, so when in a meeting I can just glance at it and see what the voicemail is about.
Google's navigation is actually better than the Navigon app I used on the iPhone.
I can do everything by voice, with much better results and better integration than what Dragon Dictation provided on the iPhone.
For documents, I got ThinkFree Office (for free), as well as Google Docs.
I sync music and videos through doubleTwist, or just mount the Android on my desktop and drag and drop. Try THIS on the iPhone...!
I don't play a lot of games, but the Galaxy has a GPU which is multiple times faster than the iPhone.
So, yeah. it is a cool story, bro....
Thanx for your nice Android hands-on. To be honest, I feel you.
I won't buy an iPhone4 as long as the white is still not out. I also look at the Samsung Galaxy S - and yes, it really is tempting (as is the HTC Desire).
But...
...actually you admitted you gave your whole life to Google...
...and that scares the hell out of me.
Now I just think I sit this whole thing out - and Apple is becoming the Microsoft of the mobile world, maybe I should wait for WinMo7. Maybe this time, with Microsoft being the underdog, they actually get a good one
Well first, I would by a phone so you can see for yourself as I did.
then I would read these two posts of mine again.
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/10858864/
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/10859076/
Why do you keep responding with these vague, repetitive answers? I've read your posts. I see nothing that addresses the questions that I asked. If you believe that they do, please post the parts that you believe demonstrate that Steve Jobs lied in his "Thoughts on Flash."
I do know that Flash apps can be made to fill the screen to mitigate the issue of rollover vs scroll. However, this does not address the issue on rollover navigation and other controls integrated with HTML content.
All you need to do is buy an android phone and see for yourself how roll-overs work perfectly fine, or look on youtube... if you can, I know you dont use flash no matter what.
Your trying to troll. I've answered your questions, and said all I'm going to say.
Take off your iblinders, then read my posts again.
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/10858864/
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/10859076/
You're being rude taking up all this space and derailing the topic with your iagenda's. Private messages are for a reason.
Rollovers may work fine in most cases. The do not work fine in the cases I described. This problem is not limited to Flash. I have the same problem with HTML navigation menus that require rollover on my iPod touch.
You haven't answered any of my questions.