Adobe Points Finger at Apple on 'Get Flash' Page for iPhone

[nagromme]

I don’t want Flash banner ads crashing my phone and slowing my connection.

I DO want sites like Hulu to be able to deliver Flash-based standalone player apps. Adobe and Apple ARE making that possible, so I’m content.

If Adobe ever makes an efficient, stable Flash for OS X (mobile and otherwise) then I’d be upset if Apple didn’t allow it. But I’d also disable it

 

[Lara F]

I don’t want Flash banner ads crashing my phone and slowing my connection.

Sorry to single you out, but I'm sick of posts like this for one reason - Apple would not have flash on the iPhone WITHOUT AN OPTION TO TURN IT OFF. In fact that'd likely be the default and I'd have it set that way until the times I want to see streaming videos. So what exactly is the problem here?

 

[mshepherd]

Why doesn't adobe fix flash on the mac before they complain about not being able to work on the iphone?

 

[chr1s60]

I am for and against flash on the iPhone. There are times when I will be away from a computer and need to view a site that happens to be flash based and it frustrates me when I attempt to view it on my iPhone. At the same time, there are a lot of annoying flash based ads and other garbage that I do not care for or want to see on my iPhone.

 

[MacFly123]

Drinking from the Apple koolaid again, huh?

Perhaps if you pulled your head out of SJ's bum long enough to look around, you'd notice the vast majority of iPhone users are being punished in Apple's attempt to mold the internet in it's own image.

A large number of websites use flash in their design, and are completely inaccessible without flash support. Inefficient or not, that's fact, and we're the losers here.

Sorry, just stating facts. Flash is a horribly inferior technology and has crippled the web from a much greater potential. I honestly have not missed it at all on my iPhone and I block it with ClickToFlash on my Macs. I would GLADLY forgo Flash if Apple can kill it forever. Web developers need to use approved open standards and stop using Flash as a crutch. And if by Apple's own image, you mean far superior open standards that are approved by the W3C, then yes!

 

[djellison]

How is that ironic (Miss Morissette)?

Because this forum, one that expends an epic number of posts lambasting Microsoft and anything it ever does, simply has to conceed that's it's doing a good job in this instance. Microsoft, making the Apple experience, better.

 

[rockosmodurnlif]

It's nice of Abode to tell me who I should thank.

 

[macUser2007]

Sorry, just stating facts. Flash is a horribly inferior technology and has crippled the web from a much greater potential. I honestly have not missed it at all on my iPhone and I block it with ClickToFlash on my Macs. I would GLADLY forgo Flash if Apple can kill it forever. Web developers need to use approved open standards and stop using Flash as a crutch. And if by Apple's own image, you mean far superior open standards that are approved by the W3C, then yes!

Frankly, the vast majority of users, and developers, and content providers, DO NOT care what you personally want, no matter how much you roll your eyes.

Flash is on virtually every computer on Earth, and pretty soon it will be on virtually every smart phone as well. Except the iPhone, of course.

Flash works very well, for the vast majority of users. The fact that Apple has not expended the minimum effort required to get Flash working more efficiently in OS X, is mostly problem for only those relatively few of us, who prefer to use Mac OS.

(In my testing on OS 10.6.1, Safari is by far the worst of all browsers at handling Flash: it pushes the CPU to 77%, while Firefox and Camino stay at less than 49%. Safari is also by far the worst on Windows 7, where on the same video it runs to almost 30% of CPU, while IE8 is at 1%, and Firefox and Chrome are at 4%.

The vast majority of users enjoy what Flash provides.

And, Flash does things which would be impossible, or very hard, or prohibitively expensive, to do with other currently available technologies, and deploy them for all browsers and systems.

So, I repeat: the rest of the world DOES NOT care, that you, and a handful of weird backroom guys, have an irrational hatred of Flash. Move on.

The bottom line is, if Apple doesn't get Flash on the iPhone, it will quickly lose market share to Android. It's a HUGE missing feature, bigger than cut/paste and turn-by turn navigation and mms rolled together, and you can bet it will be advertised as such.

 

[mobi]

Adobe stop your childish games. Fix your applications. CS3 w/ Snow Leopard is horrible. Boooooo!

 

[Griffter]

I'm suprised its taken Adobe this long to complain... good shout!

 

[Treq]

...while Firefox and Camino stay at less than 49%.

On a full sized computer? That's horrible. Adobe has to get their act together and make flash more efficient before they can be allowed on the iphone.

 

[kdarling]

On a full sized computer? That's horrible. Adobe has to get their act together and make flash more efficient before they can be allowed on the iphone.

Well, yes. That's a point that's been repeated, and replied to, ad nauseum.

One more time:

Remaking Flash 10 for more efficient mobile use is exactly what Adobe is trying to do, with the help of ARM designers.

If it runs well, full Flash could become popular on mobiles* as a universal application development and delivery platform. If it doesn't run well, it'll have to wait until cpus get faster.

* With the probable early exception of the iPhone.

 

[macUser2007]

On a full sized computer? That's horrible. Adobe has to get their act together and make flash more efficient before they can be allowed on the iphone.

Well, yes, on a full-size C2D iMac.

But, did you notice the part where on a similar, C2D AOPEN Mini, running Windows 7, IE8 runs the same Flash movie at 0%-1%, Chrome and Firefox at 4%, but Safari goes to almost 30%.

I'd say it's Apple that has the problem, and not Adobe.

Flash works just fine, and it's useful and necessary to the vast majority of users. Adobe seems to be doing a very good job with 10, and from what I've seen, it runs just fine on mobiles presumably less powerful than the iPhone.

The way I see it, if there is a pi$$ing match between Apple and Adobe, and Adobe takes its ball (Creative Suite) and walks away from Apple, the Mac OS will die, for all practical purposes.

Anyway, the iPhone must have Flash, if it is to remain competitive, and Apple really needs to dedicate some resources, and make sure Flash (and Java) run better on OS X.

 

[bigdaddyp]

I am assuming that Apple has not spent any effort on making Flash run smoothly on Os X, but honestly its been almost 4 years since Adobe bought Macromedia and they still can't be bothered to make it run right? Really? And how long did it take for Microsoft to make a better performing Flash replacement (silverlight) for a competing Os no less. Well jeeze no fracking wonder why Apple has had enough and refuses to budge on Flash for iPhone. If you were in Apples shoes would you trust Adobe to give you a well coded port of Flash that didn't turn the iphone into battery sucking, testicle roasting hot plate?

I installed an early beta of Windows 7 (about 5-6 months from the GM) and was stunned that even then flash ran better then in Leopard. This tells me that Adobe is spending all their time on optimization for windows, obviously their largest market. And that is understandable but their arrogance in not bothering to ever give mac users a better product is pissing me off. So I have and will continue to use it as little as possible until Adobe shows us mac users some respect.

 

[bigdaddyp]

Well, yes. That's a point that's been repeated, and replied to, ad nauseum.

One more time:

Remaking Flash 10 for more efficient mobile use is exactly what Adobe is trying to do, with the help of ARM designers.

If it runs well, full Flash could become popular on mobiles* as a universal application development and delivery platform. If it doesn't run well, it'll have to wait until cpus get faster.

* With the probable early exception of the iPhone.

Yes but so far the few phones that have had the full version of flash on them like htc reviewers have savaged.

 

[MacFly123]

Frankly, the vast majority of users, and developers, and content providers, DO NOT care what you personally want, no matter how much you roll your eyes.

Flash is on virtually every computer on Earth, and pretty soon it will be on virtually every smart phone as well. Except the iPhone, of course.

Flash works very well, for the vast majority of users. The fact that Apple has not expended the minimum effort required to get Flash working more efficiently in OS X, is mostly problem for only those relatively few of us, who prefer to use Mac OS.

(In my testing on OS 10.6.1, Safari is by far the worst of all browsers at handling Flash: it pushes the CPU to 77%, while Firefox and Camino stay at less than 49%. Safari is also by far the worst on Windows 7, where on the same video it runs to almost 30% of CPU, while IE8 is at 1%, and Firefox and Chrome are at 4%.

The vast majority of users enjoy what Flash provides.

And, Flash does things which would be impossible, or very hard, or prohibitively expensive, to do with other currently available technologies, and deploy them for all browsers and systems.

So, I repeat: the rest of the world DOES NOT care, that you, and a handful of weird backroom guys, have an irrational hatred of Flash. Move on.

The bottom line is, if Apple doesn't get Flash on the iPhone, it will quickly lose market share to Android. It's a HUGE missing feature, bigger than cut/paste and turn-by turn navigation and mms rolled together, and you can bet it will be advertised as such.

Agree to disagree!

However, it is not just me. Anyone that knows the history of the web and the technologies behind it including flash does not like Flash, and knows that it is an inefficient and unnecessary piece of crap. The fact that one of, if not the most powerful tech company on earth agrees might make you think twice!

What do you think Apple stands to gain from this? They are pushing OPEN STANDARDS! And if Flash is such a gaping hole in the iPhone why would such a huge powerful company let a flagship product wilt when there is nothing to gain from it for them? Think about it, that is how crappy Flash is!

Personally I am happy that there is a company out there like Apple that will do whatever it takes to push progress and top of the line technology in ways that no other company has the balls to do! I am glad that they are determined to weed out inferior technology in the name of progress! They even obsolete their own products at the hight of them being the most popular gadgets on earth, and WHY?... Because they thought of something cooler. You know any other company with the balls to do that? No, they would just milk the product as long as they possibly can, and then serve a minor update that isn't too cost prohibitive.

Ya, I'll stick with Apple's M.O. Thanks!

 

[SpinThis!]

Web developers need to use approved open standards and stop using Flash as a crutch. And if by Apple's own image, you mean far superior open standards that are approved by the W3C, then yes!

How is using what's often times necessary a crutch? Trying putting any kind of multimedia on your website or handling reliable file uploads and you'll quickly see why you need Flash to reach the broadest audience. Developers have been shouting to the W3C for years for what we need and HTML5 still doesn't address much of the stuff you'd rely on Flash for.

Sadly, most Flash use is gratuitously used by developers with no html standards based alternative (which is stupid to say the least) so Flash gets a bad rap but when it's done well, it blends right in. There's a reason why Yahoo, Gmail, youtube, vimeo, etc. all use flash.

 

[Dustman]

Apple,you greedy apple give us flash even if you allow a way to click and hold that Lego piece to save a URL fir later viewing in a app specific flash player

Cydia is your friend. Of course Mobile Safari doesn't (officially) support file downloads so regardless you're still SOL unless you predownload and transfer your FLV/SWF files.

 

[Dustman]

..Snip

Personally I am happy that there is a company out there like Apple that will do whatever it takes to push progress and top of the line technology in ways that no other company has the balls to do! I am glad that they are determined to weed out inferior technology in the name of progress! They even obsolete their own products at the hight of them being the most popular gadgets on earth, and WHY?... Because they thought of something cooler. You know any other company with the balls to do that? No, they would just milk the product as long as they possibly can, and then serve a minor update that isn't too cost prohibitive.

Ya, I'll stick with Apple's M.O. Thanks! .../snip

You do realize that the same company milked the GMA 950 for over 3 years. Not only that but in the case of the Mac Mini, they removed the dedicated 64 MB card that existed in the G4 days, replaced it with the Intel integrated one, and charged 100 bucks more for it.

I could get into Cinema Displays, Mac Pros, or anything else non-iPhone but its almost too easy.

 

[MacFly123]

How is using what's often times necessary a crutch? Trying putting any kind of multimedia on your website or handling reliable file uploads and you'll quickly see why you need Flash to reach the broadest audience. Developers have been shouting to the W3C for years for what we need and HTML5 still doesn't address much of the stuff you'd rely on Flash for.

Sadly, most Flash use is gratuitously used by developers with no html standards based alternative (which is stupid to say the least) so Flash gets a bad rap but when it's done well, it blends right in. There's a reason why Yahoo, Gmail, youtube, vimeo, etc. all use flash.

YouTube uses Flash and H.264.

Look... All I know is, if a HUGE, INTERNATIONAL company like Apple can pull off their website without it which gets millions and millions of hits every day and is very well designed and media rich, there is no excuse!

 

[Treq]

Well, yes, on a full-size C2D iMac.

But, did you notice the part where on a similar, C2D AOPEN Mini, running Windows 7, IE8 runs the same Flash movie at 0%-1%, Chrome and Firefox at 4%, but Safari goes to almost 30%.

I'd say it's Apple that has the problem, and not Adobe.

Flash works just fine, and it's useful and necessary to the vast majority of users. Adobe seems to be doing a very good job with 10, and from what I've seen, it runs just fine on mobiles presumably less powerful than the iPhone.

The way I see it, if there is a pi$$ing match between Apple and Adobe, and Adobe takes its ball (Creative Suite) and walks away from Apple, the Mac OS will die, for all practical purposes.

Anyway, the iPhone must have Flash, if it is to remain competitive, and Apple really needs to dedicate some resources, and make sure Flash (and Java) run better on OS X.

First, comparing flash for windows to flash for osx is like comparing apples and oranges. Second, As for your numbers for flash on Safari vs Firefox... I get the same numbers for both. 70%! That sucks any way you slice it. Given that Safari is the fastest browser out there, I don't think it's apples fault. Flash just isn't written well for apple hardware, and until it is, apple won't allow it on the iphone.

 

[delawn]

The amount of crap in this thread is amazing:

1) Flash could never be a normal 'App' because it has to operate as a plugin for Safari since it's not a stand alone product on its own. For this reason, it would at the very least HAVE to be co-developed by Apple and included in a software update.

Quite amazing is also the amount of misinformation.

Apparently you have not heard of AIR (Adobe Integrated Runtime). It is an instance of the Flash player that has more functionality and runs outside of the browser.

http://www.adobe.com/products/air/

Of course if you mean in the context of the iPhone only, then the above does not apply.

 

[MacDSmith2]

Given the cpu usage problems on new iMacs attributed in part to Flash, its a good thing Apple does not allow this resource hog onto the iPhone or your batteries would last 20 minutes! Adobe or Apple has to address the technical problems with Flash before it can be used on the iPhone or replace it with a different technology because as it is now, Flash is a bag of hurt on all Apple platforms.

 

[Lara F]

And again I ask what the matter is with having flash as an *option*. Sigh. I guess you're the same users who enjoy being stuck on the Pandora screen...

I wish there could at least be a decent jailbreak solution.

 

[kdarling]

Look... All I know is, if a HUGE, INTERNATIONAL company like Apple can pull off their website without it which gets millions and millions of hits every day and is very well designed and media rich, there is no excuse!

Apple's website was thick with Flash and frames when the iPhone was first announced. It was the "real internet".

Steve Jobs deliberately stayed away from displaying the Apple website on an iPhone for months... because Safari couldn't display it correctly, if at all.

At the time, I noted online what he was doing, and commented that Apple was going to have to totally redesign their website before the iPhone went on sale.

And so they did.