Adobe Premiere for Mac terminated

[mr_austin]

Originally posted by MasterX (OSiX)
Look at After Effects and Premiere, last time I used both they rendered every frame, as if they had very little faith in your machine's ability to play back native, unaltered video. The iMovie/FCP progressive rendering system is far more intelligent and saves an aweful lot of time.

AE is a compositing app, so it's not supposed to play the video when you hit the play button. That said, it does a great job playing previews in real time from RAM, post rendering. And I mean uncompressed 16-bit previews, not DV. AE and FCP are both great at what they do, but what they do is very different. As for progressive rendering, I would love to see AE have some sort of background rendering/auto-proxy feature, like combustion does or easy render management like shake does.

One thing I wish FCP had (ok 2) a suepr fast editing mode like iMovie (shift click editing, it's like text, how efficient) and auto scene breaks (I often find myself importing with iMovie due to the work involved in breaking scenes and the troubble getting it to import exactly where I want it with short clips). If anyone has used FCP4 and noticed an improved import system, let me know, I'm quite interested.

As far as I know, DV capture puts markers at the start/stop points. Turn snapping on (n) use the razor blade (b) and trim at the markers, no? This is all FCP 3.

FCP has far more tools at it's disposal, and once you get used to 3-point editing and using the right tool for the right job (trim, insert,overwrite, roll, etc), it goes very quickly.

 

[fatfish]

A lot of you seem worried about lack of competition, leading to laziness on the part of Apple.

I can't see too many using FCP just for the hell of it. The vast majority will use this product to earn their living.

Proffesional users will dictate the pace of FCP development, not half-ass apps like premiere has become. (look how pixar have encouraged apple to write the new pixlet codec)

It seems a little unreal to worry about lack of competition when Apple have gotten so far ahead, without any real competition for some time.

It seems that with the new G5 the best way to go by far for video proffesionals will be a mac running FCP.

For the rest of us there is FCE or imovie.

No room for premiere anymore.

No doubt Apple lovers will see it as proof of a superior product, whereas MS lovers will twist it round to look like another nail in the mac coffin.

As for whether Adobe will drop PS, hmmm don't think so. PS is a different situation. There's a whole load of users out there, that use it without it being their bread and butter. Even if apple produced some superior imaging app, not everyone would need or want to use it, and there are a whole load of low end imaging apps out there already that havn't dented PS popularity so far.

But what's that post about PS8, being mac only. Can't see that happening, surely this is a misquote.

 

[jaykk]

Its not terribly bad, but its a warning sign

I agree thats its a good business decision of Adobe's part, still, I think Adobe is now focusing more on Windows than Mac OS X. It all started with the "PC Preferred" page on adobe's site, their focus is clearly shifted now. Adobe may not drop Photoshop, but I bet the Windows version of their software is going to be better.
And I fear M$ dropping Office suite soon too, especially since Keynote is a direct challenge to Powerpoint. M$ needs some excuse, just like adobe, to pull its Office suite from Mac Os.

And I am still following SCO's suite against IBM, its a proxy war from M$ against all *nix platforms.

 

[MacSlut]

Terminator versus OSX

Originally posted by Wonder Boy
Good ridence...

I saw Terminator 3 the other day, and I couldn't help but feel that if the government was using OS X, the ending of the world could have been avoided.

Probably, I mean after all the original Terminator was running Apple II assembly code.

 

[fatfish]

Adobe may not drop Photoshop, but I bet the Windows version of their software is going to be better.
And I fear M$ dropping Office suite soon too, especially since Keynote is a direct challenge to Powerpoint. M$ needs some excuse, just like adobe, to pull its Office suite from Mac Os.

In what way would PS for Windows be better than for OSX.

So far as MS dropping office, I think you've got to remember that MS still make huge bucks from officeX, IE was free.

And what if they do.....

Appleworks needs some improvement admittedly, but it's only been held back because of the long agreement (now over) between Apple and MS, for apple not to compete with office.

I'm sure there are lots of improvements to come to AW, and now with mail, address book, ical etc., it wouldn't be too difficult for apple to improve them and integrate them like they did with ilife, before there would be a reasonable replacement for office.

Come on guys, stop worrying about what windows users are doing.

 

[whawho]

Re: Its not terribly bad, but its a warning sign

Originally posted by jaykk
I agree thats its a good business decision of Adobe's part, still, I think Adobe is now focusing more on Windows than Mac OS X. It all started with the "PC Preferred" page on adobe's site, their focus is clearly shifted now. Adobe may not drop Photoshop, but I bet the Windows version of their software is going to be better.
And I fear M$ dropping Office suite soon too, especially since Keynote is a direct challenge to Powerpoint. M$ needs some excuse, just like adobe, to pull its Office suite from Mac Os.

I don't completely agree with you on this. While I agree it's a warning sign, I don't completely agree with you that Adobe as a whole company is focusing more on Windows than on Mac, maybe just certain divisions. I think that if what you said were a true statement Adobe wouldn't be working with Apple to optimize Photoshop for the G5 "pre-release" and 64 bit OS. If what you said were a true statement Adobe just wouldn't care and keep Photoshop how it is .... You don't see any CEO's from Macromedia doing any Panther Demo's .

And on MS dropping Office for Mac. I really don't think will happen too soon. Until the MacBD doesn't make Microsoft money... they make them a ton for the amount of people in that division... there's really no justificaton for them to drop Office...especially since Office already runs natively in Mac OS X...

And now that they MS doesn't have to keep IE going thanks to Safari.. The MacBD will make Microsoft More money since they have to put zero more development hours into IE.. MS is no Dummy...Most Every apple user will use Safari, Apple users tend like Apple Software..And the ones that don't will still use the old IE that works natively in Mac OS X.

It's not a real good business practice to just END revenue like what the MacBD generates.... Especially since other departments in MS aren't making money...er XBOX, MSN come to mind

 

[jaykk]

I just dont like the reasonings

Its a lame excuse to blame it on competition from Apple's products, because without competition, we consumers are at loss. And Adobe and M$ is ready to give up mac customer base just beacause there is competition from Apple. I think its little scary.

 

[whawho]

Re: I just dont like the reasonings

Originally posted by jaykk
Its a lame excuse to blame it on competition from Apple's products, because without competition, we consumers are at loss. And Adobe and M$ is ready to give up mac customer base just beacause there is competition from Apple. I think its little scary.

I think that both companies made wise business decisions expecially in today's economy. IE for Mac makes Microsoft zero money compared to development hours cost and now they're are competing with an Apple Browser--> Microsoft will lose/already lost this battle and since Apple doesn't charge for safari this doesn't bother me too much, I quit using IE full time since the introduction of Chimera 0.3.

IE on Mac is NOTHING like IE on Windows... Safari is almost as good as IE on windows as far as layout IMO.. and just as good if not better as far as speed and it has the Apple design and look...

Adobe probably was losing money a losing Market share drastically on the Mac with Premiere and with the introduction of Final Cut Express (Costs less than Adobe Premiere) Adobe really didn't have a leg to stand on anymore. They had no more "it's cheaper than FCP" argument... because most likely the users that didn't want to pay the $999 for FCP would be fine using FCE and are OK with paying less $299 I know I was..

Shoot.... if I had choice bewteen Premierre and iMovie... I would pick iMovie everytime...

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by 748s
Avid is releasing a free dv edit system this year. it will take a chunk out of the PC premiere market. premiere could be killed off in a year or two. premiere was an example of too little too late.

I really doubt Avid's free DV is going to take a chunk outta anything other an iMovie or windows movie maker. It's a free program for people to use so they will hopefully go, "wow this is great. I'm gonna drop $1500 on XpressDV."


BaghdadBob, FCP still has plenty of competition out there w/the most obvious one being Avid. FCP was never meant to compete w/Premiere. It was meant to compete w/ higher end, pro level NLE's like it is currently.


Jeff Harrell, FCP isn't meant to compete w/Smoke (which is an editing & finishing hybred), but more along the lines of NLE's like Avid's Xpress and Media/Film compossers.


Lethal

 

[Maxx Power]

Funny how Adobe revenges on Apple after years of maltreatment from Apple.

 

[Keynoteuser]

not quite

Jeff Harrell, read his first sentence again...he said FCE is the same as FCP 3 except it only does DV. The SECOND sentence mentions Premier. I wanted it clear that FCP, even version 3, does more than FCE.

 

[BaghdadBob]

Originally posted by Maxx Power
Funny how Adobe revenges on Apple after years of maltreatment from Apple.

What did Apple do?

 

[beerstine]

No Real Great Loss

As someone who broke into editing on Premiere 5.1 and endured more than my share of its bugs and instability, the decision to fork over the extra bucks once FCP came out was easy and I haven't looked back. Haven't used Premiere in over 2 years and ignored all the calls to upgrade as most Mac-heads did.

Premiere was an application that offered far more features than functionality. It could do a lot of things if you had the time and patience to make it work if you were lucky, but Final Cut is a far more professional package and the market has borne that out.

There will be a lot of home movie jockeys and wedding shooters that will muddle through with Premiere on their XP systems, but the Pros will continue to use FCP, Avid and other more robust tools.

Now, if After Effects and Photoshop go...then Apple's got a real problem.

By the way, every year at NAB I run by the Matrox and Canopus booths to watch Premiere crash Windows XP in the middle of live demos before hundreds of people. And you wonder why they have to bundle the crap app with hardware boards just to boost their sales figues.

Pinnacle dumped Premiere to go with their own Edition Software, and Canopus is developing Edius to be an eventual replacement. Matrox goes with Incite on their high-end systems.

Just because It's now Windows only doesn't mean it will work, and most people in the business know it.

 

[CSkotW]

Adobe, MS, etc.

Originally posted by MacSlut Now, if Apple could only kill off Photoshop and the rest of MS Office... [/B]

With Corel hurting, it might make sense for Apple to pursue their code. Apple would make a much better home for Corel's Mac product line.

I can imagine either a rebirth of WP code in AppleWorks, or an out-right purchase of Corel's WINE-based Office for Linux. WordPerfect, Quattro Pro, etc. -- on the Macintosh.

OpenOffice - Aqua/OS X edition would be fine, but I admit that WP had some nice feature. (Reveal Codes still beats MS Word's formatting in some ways.)

Apple is a hardware company, true, but market share is a result of must-have software. Apple is creating a lot of must-haves in the digital hub.

Adobe and Quark should worry... they took too long to embrace OS X and did it only half-hearted.

 

[evolu]

Originally posted by h'biki
Pretty much every mac user I know who used to use premiere now uses FCP or FCE - its market share has been complete erroded by a far superior product.

But this is potentially troubling news - what if Adobe killed After Effects and Photoshop for Mac?

I predict one of two things:

1. Steve buys Adobe just to spite them. (I havne't checked market capitalisation so I have no idea if its possible).

2. Apple announces its own Photoshop/AE killer (and I'm labout 90% sure they have one in development - they need to) which will be one of two things:

a) Based on GIMP (and its FilmGIMP variation). They'll tighten up the code, provide a supertight GUI.

b) Based on Shake. Shake has superior colour tools (32bit floating point internally), a superior workflow (if you get your head around the procedural aspect) and market awareness.

Either way, it'll underprice Photoshop and AE by at least 50% and be at least 200% faster cause Adobe's code sucks total ass.

This seems to be marketshare driven... I don't think adobe will give up on the mac anytime soon!

 

[h'biki]

Re: Mixed bag...

Originally posted by BaghdadBob
Well, I haven't done any video editing at all, so I don't have any specific product opinions myself, but I'm going to blab anyway.

Think Team Rocket:

Apple no longer has competition, which may make them lazy "That's bad..."

Except of course they do have competition - in the form of *the* post juggernaut called Avid.

Avid DVXpress Free is coming to OS X and Windows. Will people use it instead of iMovie? Potentially. Avid has a name in the post market and it'll be a great way to learn Avid systems (like ProTools free)

DVXpress is more expensive than FCE but for post houses with Symphony systems and the like it offers beautiful cross-system compatibility without EDLs.

(I know Mac editors who prefer DVXpress too)

Thats why Premiere was killed - it had no hope of competing with two heavyweights.

 

[JerrySpoon]

I used Premier back when I was using mac os 8. I can say that I liked what it did then, but I soon became unsatisfied with it. Later, when iMovie came out, I used it almost exclusively, even though there was much that it didn't do. Now that FCE has come out (and it's in a price range I can afford) I've been trying to talk myself into buying it and learning it. I was a little aprehensive and didn't want to give up what I knew about Premier even though I hadn't used it in years. Guess this is the final nail in the coffin. FCE, here I come!

 

[shawnjackson]

well.. actually in terminator 3 they were running unix (at least on the gov computers from what I saw... and yes I know, they werent running anything, just some little scripted video rendetion to look neat... but I think its more unix then anything)

and since os x is build on the unix core... well then, the world would still have blone up. hate to see what would have happend hat they been running windows xp

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by MasterX (OSiX)
One thing I wish FCP had (ok 2) a suepr fast editing mode like iMovie (shift click editing, it's like text, how efficient) and auto scene breaks (I often find myself importing with iMovie due to the work involved in breaking scenes and the troubble getting it to import exactly where I want it with short clips). If anyone has used FCP4 and noticed an improved import system, let me know, I'm quite interested.

There is nothing wrong w/FCPs capturing ability. IIRC there is a way in FCP 3 (and I'm assuming 4) to auto-detect the "pause" breaks in the DV tape. But I've never used it, nor would I want to. Going thru and logging tape/timecode and batch capturing takes a bit more time but, IMO, it's the only way to properly capture footage. How are you having problem capturing short clips (or heck any clips for that matter)? All you have to do is set an in point at the begining of the clip you want to capture and an out point at the end.


Lethal

 

[Scottgfx]

Originally posted by wheezl
Premier was such an awful and underpowered application from day one. It was extremely buggy and thus extremely unstable in every release. Luckily it was equally crappy on both Windows and the Macintosh... even with a new version for Windows XP it gets it's butt kicked all over the place by Vegas Video which is a vastly superior peice of software.

I received Premiere 4(something) for the Mac when I bought my Miro DC30. After expierence with linear tape editing and Avid, I thought Premiere was crap. I've seen some really patient people do good work in it though. I've been recommending Vegas to my PC using friends based on my brother's comments. I can't seem to be able to get him back to the Mac though. Where I work we have an Accom Affinity that only runs on OS9. I hope they're not expecting any new sales. While I don't get to use FCP too much, everything seems to be in it's proper place. Will FCP3 work with that new G5 I just ordered, or do I need to upgrade to 4?

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Re: Re: Re: Mixed bag...

Originally posted by hsilver
AVID stopped developing it's products for the Mac in the '90's when the 8500 or 9500 or the 1st pro Mac came out with only 3 expansion boards.

Power Mac G3 (beige, Gossamer, 1998).

9500 (1995) and 9600 (1997) were both 6-slot.

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Re: I just dont like the reasonings

Originally posted by jaykk
Its a lame excuse to blame it on competition from Apple's products, because without competition, we consumers are at loss. And Adobe and M$ is ready to give up mac customer base just beacause there is competition from Apple. I think its little scary.

If the competition from Apple means better products, then so be it. Better products is what we're all aiming at, isn't it?

 

[macnews]

I rated this as negative because the "loss" of any app looks bad for potential switchers - no matter how crappy it is or even if they would use it. The appearance of "not enough" apps for Macs is something switchers have to overcome regardless of that 90% of PC users only use about 10 programs on a regular basis (this is my own personal obersvation, not fact).

In terms of Adobe, I think this is a smart move. I don't think the "be careful Adobe may pull its other apps" theory carries any weight what so ever. First, the "industry standard" in graphic design is still considered to be a Mac computer running Illustrator and Photoshop. Depending on what type of graphics you do include Flash, Quark, etc, etc. True or not, this is the mind set of many in the industry.

Second, my theory is the following: Upon getting quark 6, Adobe recognized they have a great chance to capture the professional print market. Money being tight, they looked where they could fund some extra r&d to add in some final features for Indesign 3 (due in Dec.). Understanding their butt was being kicked in the video market, they wisely ditched Premier. The savings were put into having Indesign totally kick Quark's collective ass.

Good business decision for Adobe - focus on Indesign, Illustrator, Photoshop and Acrobat. Make PDF a true accepted standard and fend off M$ attempts to corrupt it. Overall, looks bad for Apple because a "loss" of an app - as will surely be seen by the PC pundits putting their spin on it.

 

[macphoria]

Apple has been upsetting other software developers with their own softwares. Apple upset MS with Safari, Keynote, etc, and upset Adobe with Final Cut Pro. You could say those companies "retaliated" or that they simply didn't think it would be worth their time and money to compete with software that hardware company specifically made for their own machines. Considering the small market that Apple owns, this is a bit scary because companies are in business to make money and they really have little reason to spend effort to turn lesser profit from smaller market.

But considering how Apple products have deep root in creative art/design community, it is unlikely that company like Adobe will pull away entirely. And this is why I think Adobe made practical business decision with Premier as opposed to retaliating.

If Adobe said they were stopping development on future Photoshops or something like that, then it would be different story all together. Then I would hope Apple will hurry and come out with Photo Studio Pro or something like that.

 

[dansuz1]

FCP vs iMovie

Does anyone know of any comparisons between the features/options of iMovie3 and FCP/FCE? I'd like to see an unbiased comparison to see if it is worth the money to upgrade to FCP.

All I use iMovie for is home video, but I would like to get more creative with them than I can - if it is worth the cost.

Dan