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If it is written 100% in flash, that is a HORRIBLE design choice.

They are missing out on a HUGE market.

Flash is meant to "add to a site" not to "make a site"... plain and simple.

today that is 100% True
 
I didn't see where he called any names... but whatever. So, you don't like Adobe? It's no secret that Apple doesn't want Flash on their machines because it shows the limitations of the hardware.

It's because Flash is inefficient and unoptimized. It's been this way for years. Especially on mobile devices.

Reason: Adobe doesn't really care.
 
Just to be safe. I know its a beta, but i installed the flash 11 beta and my cpu numbers weren't that high when running flash. So I think I'm okay
 
Pixelmator still lacks necessary tools that are included in Photoshop like Path tools, etc.

Pixelmator vs Photoshop crap again? ..come on!

If anyone can get the job done in Pixelmator than they don't need to waste money on Photoshop. It means they don't use two thirds of Photoshop's ability and application. Photoshop's communication with other apps even non-Adobe ones is what trully sets it apart.

Today Photoshop is a lot more than removing that birthmark off bride's face and putting Happy Wedding banners. That was decade and a half ago.
 
I believe it. Adobe doesn't care. They've had months to prepare Flash for Lion and they did nothing. Hey, that's fine. I'm not loading it on my fresh install of Lion.

I installed Google Chrome and if there's something I need to see that I can't on Safari, I'll fire that up. Flash's final death can't come soon enough for me.
 
Playing in the sandbox

That's madness to suggest. If every application that needs to call open() and close() required a full rewrite for Lion, we'd have had 0 applications that worked during the previews.

I think you're looking way too deep into this. Heck, some people have had some amount of success with VDA under Lion from what I've seen, but mostly it either segfaults or throws an error that the decoder is already in use.

You're right, the sandboxing is not turned on right now. It will be turned on in November 2011 for apps submitted to the Mac App Store. It will be easy for Apple to verify that those apps work with sandboxing, and it won't break any existing apps.

Going forward, every MAS app that gets updated will need to follow the sandboxing rules. Also, more and more companies will want to distribute via the MAS. So in a year or two maybe 10% to 30% of the apps on your machine will be sandboxed.

My guess is that sometime in 2013 (?), Apple will announce that in six months, for OS X 10.7.x (x = 5?), all apps must sandbox. There will be a flurry of updates to fix this, some companies will ignore the warning, and when people install 10.7.5 some of their apps will work and the non-updated ones won't.

As an aside, that's why I followed the Rosetta/Quicken anguish with is best described as bemusement. People: a hard rain is coming, and Rosetta/Quicken was just the first few gentle drops.
 
It's because Flash is inefficient and unoptimized. It's been this way for years. Especially on mobile devices.

Reason: Adobe doesn't really care.

Your comments are misleading (as usual).

Flash is mainly unoptimized on the mac platform. Only 10% of computer userbase. Of that 10%, an even smaller number of people have issues serious enough to make complaints as grand as yours.

You'd have a point if apple had MS's windows market share and the problem still existed. Unfortunately for you and your apple evangelism, this is not the case in Windows.
 
I tried to give reverse scrolling a chance, but it just doesn't work. It makes perfect sense and is totally natural when you are literally in contact with the content on a touch screen, but when you separate the content from the touch surface the metaphor of pushing something around on a table doesn't hold up.

At least not for me.
 
I am against Apple monopoly. We, consumers, have the right to choose which product should stay. Personally Steve doesn't like flash, but this doesn't mean we hate flash. Give us back flash with hardware acceleration! I don't want mac os x lion to become iLion!

who would have thought an Apple user thinking on his own

but really - iPad already outsell the Macintosh - wait I mean MAC - we can not use big words these days...

it is going to become iLion.
 
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What the hell was Adobe doing while Lion was in Beta? Why did they not test their applications like every other developer?

Edit: Oh I know! They were busy making a dumbed down version of the dumbed down version of Photoshop!
 
Sounds like you've never used a mouse with a good scroll wheel. You'll have to rip my Logitech mouse with its hyperscrolling scroll wheel from my cold, dead hands. Additionally, on a mouse, thumb buttons are easier to activate than multi touch gestures. There are definitely some advantages to mutlitouch on a mouse, but there are also some definite drawbacks.

I don't think it really comes into its own until you put it on a trackpad (the magic trackpad is great).

Steve said we are in the post mouse era so everyone stopped using them. :D

Sorry, this is just not fair. Apple announced a platform change in the middle of one Adobe CS development cycle, and then, completely with out notice, dropped 64-bit Carbon in the middle of another CS dev cycle. Adobe ported to the new platform in the following dev cycle and ported nearly their entire CS suite from Carbon to Cocoa in the cycle following the 64-bit Carbon announcement. These are not trivial tasks no matter what the size of the development house.

The 64-bit Photoshop port in particular was a remarkable achievement. They basically had to re-write their entire 20-year-old massive app in a new language and still deliver the new features of CS5 to stay in parity with the Windows version. Not too shabby.

That said, I do agree Adobe should have had some patches ready for the Lion release, but it doesn't sound like the bug list is that extensive to get nasty about.

But it's ok for Apple to do that or anything else that they want. Just blame the other companies and all it well.

I use Click to Flash, NoScripts, etc. so I only use Flash when I want, but one would be hard pressed to 100% not use Flash. Too many sites either incorporates it or (gasp!) are written nearly 100% with it, you know, when you get one of those "this site requires Flash," messages.

Good logic and viewpoint.

I am against Apple monopoly. We, consumers, have the right to choose which product should stay. Personally Steve doesn't like flash, but this doesn't mean we hate flash. Give us back flash with hardware acceleration! I don't want mac os x lion to become iLion!

It will become iLion over time.

I want a BMW with a Lotus engine. Not gonna happen. Apple supplies hardware and software. That is there right as a private company. We, as consumers might disagree, but its hardly a monopoly. We can go get a Dell or HP (or whatever else) if we are unhappy with Apple.

Excellent post. We have freedom of choice. And as long as people keep buying everything that Apple makes, it's not going to change. They will give us what Steve wants regardless of what we want.

I don't use an Adobe products anymore, if they can't be bothered to make them work on the platform of my choice - I can't be bothered buying them.

A good way to look at it, IMHO.

So much farking problems with Adobe.

Adobe should just kill off Flash and get the problem over and done with.

How much time does Adobe need to fix a piece of software?

If Adobe doesn't want to kill off Flash, Apple will be happy to do it for ya.

Apple won't be the driving force in killing of flash, they only have a miniscule share of the market.
 
I'm sorry, but this is just sad. Adobe is not some small no name developer. Apple has put out pre-release development builds of Lion for a while before its release. Adobe had plenty of time to put out a Lion compatible update. These comments make it sound like Adobe is just thinking about the implications of Lion now, after it's official release. They seriously dropped the ball here...


You think they did this on accident? Calculated move. I'm really po'd about the comment about the reverse scrolling. One of the first things I did when I loaded Dev 1 was turn it off, but where does Adobe get off putting a comment about the user experience overall (outside of Flash) in an issues document? Is it an issues document or a review of the OS?!
 
Your comments are misleading (as usual).

Flash is mainly unoptimized on the mac platform. Only 10% of computer userbase. Of that 10%, an even smaller number of people have issues serious enough to make complaints as grand as yours.

You'd have a point if apple had MS's windows market share and the problem still existed. Unfortunately for you and your apple evangelism, this is not the case in Windows.

Most other companies seem to be able to write efficient, well-enough optimized code for OS X, 10% market share or not.
 
You ran Mac OS on Pentium II 333mhz? wow

Nope, I used Linux, which has an even worse implementation of Flash than OS X has. And back in those days, it was much, much worse. We were at least 2 versions behind the official Windows version.

Yet newgrounds.com worked perfectly then, in Konqueror 1.0 of all browsers, using a Netscape plug-in reimplementation that was far from flawless.
 
So what the hell does this mean for a regular user like myself who doesn't understand all of the 11 pages I just read.

I get the jist of everything...but what isn't going to work for me now on Safari/Chrome...dumb it down for me lol.
 
Most other companies seem to be able to write efficient, well-enough optimized code for OS X, 10% market share or not.

My point wasnt about whether or not Adobe could write proper code. It just not in their top priority to cater to a platform (and users) thats basically a footnote in the industry.
 
How funny. I just went to the Nike site on Snow Leopard to take a look at your example and the flash player crashed with an error report. I'm now staring at a blank screen saying "plugin failure".

How typical.

I opened the three sites, each in a different tab. They all played together at the same time. The processors barely blinked and there was barely increase in RAM use. ???

That was on my 2010 MP running Lion. Then I tried the same thing on my late 2008 MBP running Lion. Same thing, no problem. ???
 
Oh my god. I will not be able to see accelerated banners on my MacBook Pro? My life is over ... oooo :)
 
My point wasnt about whether or not Adobe could write proper code. It just not in their top priority to cater to a platform (and users) thats basically a footnote in the industry.

Well then it really shouldn't be anyone else's top priority either, and yet, other people seem to be doing the job anyway.

What does that say about Adobe?
 
What the hell was Adobe doing while Lion was in Beta? Why did they not test their applications like every other developer?

What makes you think they didn't test Flash on Lion ? What makes you think they haven't checked their code ? What makes you think they haven't submitted bugs to Apple for the VDA framework which went unfixed ?

Why are you jumping on Adobe and yet not on Apple ?

What insight do you have that we don't ? Or do you even have any insight ?
 
Your comments are misleading (as usual).

Flash is mainly unoptimized on the mac platform. Only 10% of computer userbase. Of that 10%, an even smaller number of people have issues serious enough to make complaints as grand as yours.

You'd have a point if apple had MS's windows market share and the problem still existed. Unfortunately for you and your apple evangelism, this is not the case in Windows.

But then, that's a problem with Flash for some of us. We are at Adobe's whim as far as whether or not our platform of choice is worthy of their efforts.

When you are pushing a cross platform solution, maybe you should have the same quality standards on the number two platform as the number one platform. Let alone number three and below.
 
You think they did this on accident? Calculated move. I'm really po'd about the comment about the reverse scrolling. One of the first things I did when I loaded Dev 1 was turn it off, but where does Adobe get off putting a comment about the user experience overall (outside of Flash) in an issues document? Is it an issues document or a review of the OS?!

Agree 100%. Very childish move from Adobe.
 
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