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According to John Stossel, lawyers are the 2nd greatest threat to the United States behind terrorists!

I'm not sure where on his list juries reside. :D

And being a lawyer does not make you more intelligent or smarter than other people either last I checked.

Nor does it automatically make you correct in your predictions.

How many lawyers thought OJ Simpson would get off on a slam dunk murder case?

From my litigation experience you are absolutely correct Sir.
 
The biggest thing I see, with an Ipad now, is that I just don't notice that much missing without Flash. A LOT fewer ads, that's for sure, but it certainly isn't the hobbled internet experience that Adobe wants us to believe the Ipad's browsing experience is. And that should scare Adobe a lot.

You sir have nailed it right between the eyes! The web without Flash is a lot more serene. I actually run flash block all the time now and did not look back!
 
24 Pages of replies and not a single person came up with a viable idea for why Adobe is suing Apple? I am ignoring the anti-trust responses since Apple is no where near a monopoly in anyone of the mentioned markets (cell phone, mobile app, computer indst.,). And the anti-trust comparison to MS requiring and strong-arming hardware vendors to only bundle Internet Explorer with Windows is not even on the same geography.

Apple is not a monopoly and nowhere near in control of any of the markets it competes within. Apple reserves the right to make and design its products and services in a fashion that does not break US Laws.

Adobe, however, has cornered an average between 75% to 90% of the entire internet media market and is now strong-arming Apple to allow applications designed with their Flash to iphone app converter. Flash is not an open standard and is owned by Adobe. Influencing companies to bundle flash because of a vast dominance over internet media does not seem very altruistic to me.

It seems monopolistic.

I find it shocking that a company that boasts about vast control over internet media wants to get into an anti-trust tussle with a company that has 40 billion in the bank.

Adobe cannot have survived this long by being stupid. And suing Apple would be very, very stupid.
 
If the NFL can dictate what "markets" can carry what NFL games I am sure that Apple can dictate what "apps" can run on their platform.
 
You sir have nailed it right between the eyes! The web without Flash is a lot more serene. I actually run flash block all the time now and did not look back!

The Cavemen from Geico salute your tenacity.

Free drink on them I'm told for your comment.

Go to Geico.com to collect your prize.

:D
 
24 Pages of replies and not a single person came up with a viable idea for why Adobe is suing Apple? I am ignoring the anti-trust responses since Apple is no where near a monopoly in anyone of the mentioned markets (cell phone, mobile app, computer indst.,).....

Wow! We are glad you are in our midst, to be able to resolve such complex issues so easily for us. Just like Solomon!

You should send a bill to both Adobe and Apple for services rendered.
 
Prove what? That Apple can move some of that $40 billion, mobilize its vast developer base (that is part of the most lucrative operation in consumer tech) and put out a competitive suite faster than you can say Adobe Freehand?

Vast developer base? Please. They have to divert resources from OS X to get iPhone OS 4.0 out on time. They've already done so last year before OS 3.0 came out, further delaying Snow Leopard...

You're kidding yourself thinking Apple could whip up a "Creative Suite" like software package, especially that they like to make simpleton software like iWork/iLife.
 
You can not point to RIM, Android or Windows Mobile as all 3 allow side loading apps from location other than the official store. WP7 I am not so sure about what those restrictions are going to be but I have a feeling they are not going to stop things like the middleware compilers.

Android does not prevent you from using another compilers nor does RIM so those arguments are pointless. Apple could solve all the problems by allowing 3rd party app stores.

And those are the reasons why those platforms will not be nearly as successful as apples.
 
The argument I'm making with the internet lockout has no implications on the legality of "blocking the internet" on an apple device (as such a device would almost certainly fail in the market, no-one would even attempt a monopoly lawsuit). I just extended Job's argument against having an open platform due to the possibility of porn apps to the internet. As is well known, the internet is full of porn. How could Jobs claim the inability to install apps outside of the app store puts children at risk of encountering porn more-so than the ability to surf the internet? He quite simply can't and assuming you wouldn't let him block the entirety of the internet for such a reason (and by "not let", I simply mean you "wouldn't buy"), how could you allow him to block apps for this reason?

The Internet is not Steve's store.
The App store is, and if he doesn't want to sell porn he doesn't have to just like Best Buy doesn't even though they sell videos.

Toyota can't stop you from using thier cars to drive to the porn shop.
But that doesn't mean they have to sell you a blow up doll with every camry purchased.
 
Vast developer base? Please. They have to divert resources from OS X to get iPhone OS 4.0 out on time. They've already done so last year before OS 3.0 came out, further delaying Snow Leopard...

You're kidding yourself thinking Apple could whip up a "Creative Suite" like software package, especially that they like to make simpleton software like iWork/iLife.

Acquisitions. Just like Apple did with FCP. Trust Apple to make all the right ones.

Right down to these folks:

http://www.pixelmator.com/ .......

To leveraging the talent responsible for making *this* the platform what it is:

http://www.apple.com/iphone/iphone-3gs/app-store.html

$40 billion in Apple's hands is like a steering wheel in Michael Schumacher's.




You're kidding yourself thinking Apple could whip up a "Creative Suite" like software package, especially that they like to make simpleton software like iWork/iLife.


http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/finalcutpro/

http://www.apple.com/finalcutserver/

http://www.apple.com/finalcutexpress/

http://www.apple.com/logicstudio/

http://www.apple.com/logicexpress/

http://www.apple.com/aperture/
 
Vast developer base? Please. They have to divert resources from OS X to get iPhone OS 4.0 out on time. They've already done so last year before OS 3.0 came out, further delaying Snow Leopard...

You're kidding yourself thinking Apple could whip up a "Creative Suite" like software package, especially that they like to make simpleton software like iWork/iLife.

Makes a good story, but Steve Jobs already denied that today.
 
First, being a defendant or plaintiff in lawsuits does not give you any credibility, so since you were quick to raise it as a credential, we naturally assumed you were claiming to be someone actually educated in the law.

Your opinion seems to be that Adobe might win because "**** happens." My opinion is that you don't know what you are talking about. The case won't make it to a jury. For the second time, I never said it is "frivolous." Frivolous is a very serious charge. I merely say they cannot win. And the reason I say they cannot win is that the legal system is based on the idea that when you take someone to civil court, you cannot simply allege an injury. You must allege some "cause of action." For example, if Joe starts selling banans for less than I charge, and puts me out of business, I am injured, but I cannot successfully sue.

So I say once again - there is no cause of action the elements of which Adobe can prove (unless, as I pointed out much earlier, something has gone on behind the scenes, such as a secret contract). There is no tort committed by Apple, no contract (that we know of) broken, and no antitrust or other statutory violation. Adobe will (if they sue - I have said earlier and i repeat: they will not sue) allege something. They will meet their Rule 11 burden (i.e.: it won't be frivolous), but it will be a clearly losing argument. There is a huge difference between a losing argument and a frivolous argument. The judge will throw out the case on summary judgment, because despite what you say, federal district court judges do a good job and are not random and unpredictable.

As someone with above average credentials (1L Law Student), what he is saying makes perfect sense. I hope Apple just makes a FRCP 12(b)(6) motion and gets this over with. Adobe knows they don't have a cause of action. They are just upset and are making threats.

Also, to those who say a Lawyer just has an "opinion", you are right. However, its a professional opinion developed after years of study in law school and from years of practice. Just like when you go to the doctor and he tells you that you have an illness, that opinion holds much more weight than your buddy's who read something on webMD or wikipedia and thinks he knows whats wrong with you.
 
In 2,000 comments on this Apple v Adobe issue over the past week it didn't dawn on anyone that Adobe hasn't yet shipped a flash player for mobile phones?

You're mad that Apple didn't approve a plugin/app that doesn't exist?
 
Lol, Adobe should just go die.

Why, are you building a competitive product?

I guess I should be grateful that Steve Jobs has nothing against bees, because some here would use that as an excuse to go on a rabid-crusade to try and kill every last one. Because HATE should always trump choice!

I can see the posts now... LOLZ, bees should just die. Or signatures that state "Help kill the bees," linked to some toxic pesticide. :)
 
As someone with above average credentials (1L Law Student), what he is saying makes perfect sense. I hope Apple just makes a FRCP 12(b)(6) motion and gets this over with. Adobe knows they don't have a cause of action. They are just upset and are making threats.

Also, to those who say a Lawyer just has an "opinion", you are right. However, its a professional opinion developed after years of study in law school and from years of practice. Just like when you go to the doctor and he tells you that you have an illness, that opinion holds much more weight than your buddy who read something on webMD or wikipedia and thinks he knows whats wrong with you.

Really? Above average credentials?! A first year law student?! LOL!

What school is that, anyway? Correspondence?
 
The argument I'm making with the internet lockout has no implications on the legality of "blocking the internet" on an apple device (as such a device would almost certainly fail in the market, no-one would even attempt a monopoly lawsuit). I just extended Job's argument against having an open platform due to the possibility of porn apps to the internet. As is well known, the internet is full of porn. How could Jobs claim the inability to install apps outside of the app store puts children at risk of encountering porn more-so than the ability to surf the internet? He quite simply can't and assuming you wouldn't let him block the entirety of the internet for such a reason (and by "not let", I simply mean you "wouldn't buy"), how could you allow him to block apps for this reason?

Your writing is not very clear (I think you have an "inability" in there instead of an "ability" and a couple of other ambiguous passages).

Anyway, I think you may be asking somewhere in there, "why should porn apps be disallowed from the app store, when porn is generally and readily available on the open internet", and a child presumably has access to a browser?

Basically, there seem to be a couple of misconceptions going on here: 1) that a policy prohibiting porn apps is about nothing more than "controlling what you can and can't do" with your iPhone, iPod or iPad. Certainly, someone who is determined, and maybe even only a little curious, can find it if they want to; or can circumvent the restrictions.

2) That since society is pretty permissive these days and porn is pretty much everywhere you look anyway, why not just throw out all the "pretentious, anachronistic, weird and conservative" notions and just let it all hang out -- why pretend to have any principles or give any heed to others' principles?

Simply put, a parent (myself included) will feel pretty good about such a policy. My kids hijack the iPod Touch and iPad as it is and spend hours on it. It's one thing to know they need some guidance or restrictions while using the internet; at the same time, they don't generally click on ads and they don't put odd and unfamiliar words they don't know how to spell into the search field. However, they will browse the app store and movie trailers much more readily.

Yes, one knows that porn is almost openly displayed on some streets -- that doesn't mean a child should have to come face to face with it in the minimarket when they go to do some shopping. The places that keep it off their shelves are much appreciated by parents. They are showing a little backbone, a little restraint, saying they don't have to participate in a free-for-all to get the attention of jaded consumers; that just because the store owner is in business, it doesn't mean he has to accommodate every flashy but empty industry that would like to squat on his premises and shake down his loyal customers.

Discernment used to be such a highly prized attribute. Now of course, it is denigrated, much as hard work and careful planning and attention to detail are.
 
http://innerdaemon.wordpress.com/2010/04/10/sorry-adobe-you-screwed-yourself/

Adobes been doing this kind of crap to Apple ever since OSX began, and yet I didn't see Apple complaining or even threatening to sue. And now that the tables have turned on Adobe and they get a taste of their own medicine, they want to point fingers and even go so low as to sue. Pathetic Adobe, just downright pathetic. They screwed themselves for the past ten years by treating Apple the way they have been like Apples products weren't important, and now all of a sudden that Apples kicking everyones ass with the iPhone Adobe just expects Apple to treat them well and give em a piece of the pie.

Adobe, YOU go screw yourself. Lousy company that has lousy products and lousy people in charge.
 
commitment

I would feel sorry for Adobe if they had demostrated a stronger commitment to the Mac platform than for windows. Macs are second class to Adobe, windows apps from Adobe have more features and are released more offten.

For the last 4 to 5 years they been lacking and not reacting to hardware and OS changes like other vendors.

However I would like to see the suit come forward, maybe we will get some real facts out and maybe less threads of member insulting each others neither site with much to go on other than loyalties.
 
First, being a defendant or plaintiff in lawsuits does not give you any credibility, so since you were quick to raise it as a credential, we naturally assumed you were claiming to be someone actually educated in the law.

Your opinion seems to be that Adobe might win because "**** happens." My opinion is that you don't know what you are talking about. The case won't make it to a jury. For the second time, I never said it is "frivolous." Frivolous is a very serious charge. I merely say they cannot win. And the reason I say they cannot win is that the legal system is based on the idea that when you take someone to civil court, you cannot simply allege an injury. You must allege some "cause of action." For example, if Joe starts selling banans for less than I charge, and puts me out of business, I am injured, but I cannot successfully sue.

So I say once again - there is no cause of action the elements of which Adobe can prove (unless, as I pointed out much earlier, something has gone on behind the scenes, such as a secret contract). There is no tort committed by Apple, no contract (that we know of) broken, and no antitrust or other statutory violation. Adobe will (if they sue - I have said earlier and i repeat: they will not sue) allege something. They will meet their Rule 11 burden (i.e.: it won't be frivolous), but it will be a clearly losing argument. There is a huge difference between a losing argument and a frivolous argument. The judge will throw out the case on summary judgment, because despite what you say, federal district court judges do a good job and are not random and unpredictable.

You give "opinion" and "argument" about my "credibility". You are entitled to that opinion. However, your opinion of my credibility is an area you are unqualified to render judgment as one "educated" in the law. I speak to the practical business reality of litigation outcomes. You state (Adobe's) 'will be a clearly losing argument'. You say 'they cannot win'....'Federal District Judges do a good job and are not random and unpredictable'.....'the Judge will throw out the case on Summary Judgment'. Really? What I have learned about litigation all these many years, tells me this: If I were Apple being sued by Adobe and you gave this very legal opinion to me....I'd be real worried, as no experienced litigator would ever give such advice, even in passing. Adobe is not going to file a case unless they believe they can win. That is certain. Let's see who's right here. Time will tell the tale.
 
Really? Above average credentials?! A first year law student?! LOL!

What school is that, anyway? Correspondence?

Haha, sorry I'm not trying to sound like I know everything, just that I have a good grasp on what he was talking about as opposed to the average layman. I just think it’s helpful to show where you're coming from when you make an argument.
 

A bogus comparison. Final Cut Pro, Server, and Express can be lumped into the same category. Same can be said for Logic and Express.

As for Aperture, it's out there, but hardly the standard RAW editor/organizer. That honor goes to Lightroom.

So really, you have three separate pieces of software. Try again.

You also forgot Motion, but that hasn't made a dent in After Effects' dominance.

Oh yeah, there's also Shake... wait, sorry, Apple bought that company out and then let the software die.

But I'm sure they could easily overtake Adobe in professional creation software. Surely, right?
 
You give "opinion" and "argument" about my "credibility". You are entitled to that opinion. However, your opinion of my credibility is an area you are unqualified to render judgment as one "educated" in the law. I speak to the practical business reality of litigation outcomes. You state (Adobe's) 'will be a clearly losing argument'. You say 'they cannot win'....'Federal District Judges do a good job and are not random and unpredictable'.....'the Judge will throw out the case on Summary Judgment'. Really? What I have learned about litigation all these many years, tells me this: If I were Apple being sued by Adobe and you gave this very legal opinion to me....I'd be real worried, as no experienced litigator would ever give such advice, even in passing. Adobe is not going to file a case unless they believe they can win. That is certain. Let's see who's right here. Time will tell the tale.

You are raising a strawman argument. I would never give this advice to a client. However none of you are my clients, and neither is Apple nor Adobe. So I am giving my opinion. You keep attacking it on the basis that somehow your 30 years of getting sued or suing (I'll assume the latter) in various states is somehow superior to my experience and education. It may be. Readers can judge for themselves - I told you why Adobe will fail, and challenged you to cite a single statute or cause of action that Apple even comes close to violating or infringing. You have chosen not to do so, and unless I am missing something your argument still boils down to "stuff happens."
 
Adobe is not going to file a case unless they believe they can win. That is certain. Let's see who's right here. Time will tell the tale.

Unless of course they let their emotions get the better of em and file suit out of anger. This story comes not too long after apple announced the new terms, adobe couldn't have really made that accurate an assessment of whether they can or cannot win. They're just reacting the only way they know how, and they're letting their anger get the better of themselves. They're clearly pissed at Apple, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing "go screw yourselves Apple" coming out of the company's mouth. Everything the guy you quoted said makes perfect sense to me and seems like this case wouldn't even make it to jury, unless there's something going on we don't know about.
 
AppleInsider Article has it right

Skip to "This All Happend Before"

URL: http://www.appleinsider.com/article...will_sue_apple_over_cs4_iphone_app_tools.html

This is real and no amount of blogging by Adobe is going to alter the Facts. Apple can not sit around to wait on LAZY Adobe to move, and on top of that creating applications that do not take advantage of the OS features and API's.

Hope to see them in court, would be fun to read how they twist the truth.
 
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