Adobe to sue Apple now?

[RidleyGriff]

They are no way near as dominant as Microsoft was with windows, and they are not promoting their own product/ software with something to gain, but just some (other?) open standards on the web. What on earth are they going to sue for?!

The only thing I could see them realistically filing suit for -- i.e., anything that isn't just another temper tantrum to try to turn public opinion against Apple -- would be damages because of theoretical lost sales of CS5.

But as long as Apple can demonstrate that they told Adobe they would not be in support of this, they've got nothing. I'm not even sure that Apple would even need to prove that, as the developer agreement lays out that Apple can change whatever they want, whenever they want.

This rumor -- and any lawsuit, should it happen -- is a PR hit job, plain and simple.

 

[some12b]

Do you think Apple can counter-sue Adobe for dominating ~95% of online animation and thus forcing all browsers/ platforms to adopt their technologies?

 

[ggbrown]

Wrong Basket

Adobe put all their eggs in one basket, Flash. It was a limited view since they really only considered two platforms..PC's and perhaps Netbooks.

Apple has a new basket that everyone wants and is uncompromising on what goes in it, and Adobe is now saying "OMG...we missed that boat."

SOMEONE has to force change....good on Apple.

G

 

[Excellerator]

Another way Adobe can get back at Apple. Stop making programs for the Macs. Macs are known mostly for photo and video editing. And Adobe is by far the leader there. Make CS6, 7, etc., Windows only and people will be go back to windows. That will get Apple there too.

 

[R3tard]

Demonstration

I would love to see this go to court. I want to see a demonstration of Adobe's tools and Flash.

1. How often Flash crashes IE, Chrome, Safari.

I use it in Windows and everytime I watch Hulu - CRASH. Some random Flash advertisement - CRASH.​

2. Demonstration of resources used on the computer while viewing a Flash video compared to other video formats.

3. I would also like to see Adobe's interpretive compiler of iPhone / iPad applications and their performance, stacked up against the performance of an optimized, natively developed application.

 

[pubwvj]

My favorite part of the Apple Store:



I love the simultaneous hating on Adobe and featuring of Adobe. Epic.

Perhaps because it isn't "hating Adobe" but hating Flash. Flash is useless glitz used for ads and distraction. I surf the web with Flash turned off. Page downloading is much faster. My computer runs faster and quieter. There are better alternatives to Flash. I almost never find anything I want to bother turning Flash on for.

 

[vmacintyre]

Yap

I am with you!

And I agree as well that Unity and the rest found in the same basket should join forces and get this neo-nazis sorted once and for all!

You, sir, are despicable. Associating Apple with the Fascist Nazi movement that swept across Europe killing MILLIONS of people simple for being of certain ethnic origins is unfathomable. If you lived through that or knew someone who did you would never make such an uninformed and insensitive comment.

 

[Edge100]

Sorry, but what exactly would Adobe sue Apple FOR? It's not like Apple is being anti-competitive here; they don't have a product that competes with Flash (in which case you could make a good argument that specifically blocking Flash support would be anti-competitive). They're simply stipulating what can and cannot run on their device.

 

[HyperZboy]

DING DING DING!

This thread has just won the 2010 Award for Most "Fanboyistic" comments! ​

​

Personally, I hate FLASH, but it's hysterically funny to watch lemming after lemming support Steve Jobs in crippling the iPad's usefulness on the internet, along with the iPhone.

Most iPad buyers probably don't even know what FLASH is when they bought it.

But when that QUESTION MARK comes up on all their favorite website pages, they will feel like they've been had by Apple.

I think Steve Jobs has finally crossed the line in his arrogance towards his long-time customers and developers. Jobs is seriously testing the limits of his Pied Piper skills.

My 2011 prediction is that there will be a BREACH in his famed Reality Distortion Field and Captain Picard will have to be brought in to save the day! LOL

Oh, almost forgot, the lawsuit! Do I think Adobe will win? NOPE!​

But I don't think that's the purpose. The purpose is to draw negative publicity to Apple within the development community and the general public to show up Steve Jobs' iPad demo and marketing as basically fraudulent.
This lawsuit will bring mainstream media in for a closer look and I think that's the ONLY reason it will be filed.

 

[effilc]

hmmm

Might as well sue Playstation3, Nintendo, and Xbox for excluding Flash capabilities. They are similarly engineered for proprietary components and operating software.

 

[cmaier]

I think it's about time! Microsoft got sued by everyone for unfair business practices when Firefox and Opera were crying about putting Internet Explorer with Windows. Then Apple wants 100% control over iPhone OS and wants to shut everyone out but no antitrust cases are filed. It's about time someone does. Apple makes nice hardware and great OS but in my option the jailbreak community made it go from 75% useable to 100%.

The difference is that Microsoft had a monopoly on windows and was trying to leverage that monopoly to obtain a monopoly in a different "market" (that being a term of art in antitrust law).

Apple has no monopoly to leverage, hence no problem. In order to find a problem, one would have to create some artificial market ("apple has a monopoly on smartphones with two buttons"), which won't work under antitrust law.

 

[John.B]

Can you prove that adobe sells exactly 50% of all cs licenses on mac?

Or did you make that up?

Widely quoted stat from John Nack (product manager of Photoshop) on his blog.

And I don't think I said "exactly".

 

[calvin2006]

Perhaps because it isn't "hating Adobe" but hating Flash. Flash is useless glitz used for ads and distraction. I surf the web with Flash turned off. Page downloading is much faster. My computer runs faster and quieter. There are better alternatives to Flash. I almost never find anything I want to bother turning Flash on for.

I keep Flash turned off, too. I just think it's funny to see Adobe featured on the online store with all the controversy and enmity between the two companies right now.

 

[jayman99]

Interesting

I would like to see where this goes. Adobe is just crying a little too much it seems. Everyone is competing today, in more than one way on more than one platform. Adobe has to get over it. Apple can make whatever decisions they want regarding how their platforms and devices function and what is and is not going to be compatible. Flash on an iPad or iPhone would just be ridiculous. Flash sucks in web browsers on computers in general. Let's move on here, nothing more to see.

 

[alexhooren]

For everyone asking the question 'under what ground are Adobe going to sue Apple'...

It all comes down to what is legally termed 'market distortion'. If it can be proved that Apple's attempts to block Flash from the "iPlatform" has a detrimental or anti-competitive nature, then Adobe has a case.

Apple have started down a dangerous road with App Store approval. Once you open your closed ecosystem to one person, it can be argued you must open it to everyone or its discrimination.

Just to note, this will have nothing to do with a monopoly situation and is in no way related to any of the recent Microsoft cases!

The questions to ask are things like; does Apple's blocking of Flash and support of HTML5 have the effect of unfairly distorting the market between them? As a significant platform, does the blocking of Flash have an impact in general on Flash's competitiveness across all platforms?

Yes it's Apple's product and yes it's their ecosystem. However, that can count for nothing once you have influence over technologies or products in unrelated areas. So Apple would be within their right to, say, block a competing phone from using iTunes - it's in the same area. However, Apple do not have a competing product to Flash. Are they blocking to protect one of their products or are they doing it because they don't like Adobe/Flash?

I'm not taking a side here at all, and its a very 50/50 case. It will be for the courts to determine. Just look beyond your hate for Adobe/Flash and/or love for Apple, examine it from a legal standpoint, and you will see there is definitely some grounds for litigation...

 

[hellodon]

I'm suing Nintendo for not making it so I can use my old Atari 2600 cartridges on my Wii. WTF? They're only shooting themselves in the foot! Atari 2600 cartridges are an ESTABLISHED STANDARD!!!!! Who knows how many people have used Atari 2600 cartridges in the past, and now they can't access that content on Wii! They must allow it! OMG I'M SO FREAKING MAD! AAAARRRGHHH THEY ARE THE SUCK!

Oh come on now....that doesn't even make sense in comparison....

It would be like allowing you to play wii games but then disabling your A and B buttons and just saying "well....there are other buttons....so when the game prompts you to use those ones just....go play another system".

Now THAT is more like it.

 

[trip1ex]

So... Apple has one monopoly (the AppStore distribution method of selling apps for iPhones) and they want to leverage that to affect another market (web video codecs / video delivery systems) by implementing anti-competitive rules in their own marketplace/monopoly of the AppStore. Seems perfectly legit for Adobe to sue, and even have a shot at winning.

The app store isn't a monopoly.

Not when you have Blackberry, Android, Palm, MS etc.

There's plenty of alternatives.

IT's a different business model. IT's more like videogame consoles. Apple offers up an end to end solution.

Sure there are drawbacks, but there are benefits too. Easier & quicker to find quality apps. Less chance of viruses. Less chance the program is going to crash your system.

 

[cmaier]

The only thing I could see them realistically filing suit for -- i.e., anything that isn't just another temper tantrum to try to turn public opinion against Apple -- would be damages because of theoretical lost sales of CS5.

But as long as Apple can demonstrate that they told Adobe they would not be in support of this, they've got nothing. I'm not even sure that Apple would even need to prove that, as the developer agreement lays out that Apple can change whatever they want, whenever they want.

This rumor -- and any lawsuit, should it happen -- is a PR hit job, plain and simple.

To sue on this they'd have to make some sort of implied contract argument. Apple lured Adobe into creating its CS5 flash->iphone tool somehow. Then when Apple pulled the rug out it infringed the implied contract.

Such an argument won't work unless there is something that happened behind the scenes that we don't know about.

 

[fontman]

Adobe need to better at software leadership

Please - the real issue is Flash is just a resourse HOG !!! I would not want my phone to slow down just to use it . It is clear adobe is falling behind the curve here.

 

[skellener]

Yes. Macromedia made Flash then Adobe purchased Macromedia.

Actually Futurewave created FutureSplash. Macromedia bought it and renamed it to Flash (and raised the price). Then Adobe bought Macromedia.

 

[Applejuiced]

They could have 100% of the market and it still wouldn't matter unless they were trying to prevent the existence of other app stores, or prevent other devices from using the concept.

What they do in regards to their own products is their business.

There's simply no case here.

They are entirely within their rights, even as a monopoly, to dictate what is and is not allowed to run on a device they design, build, sell and support - provided that no claims to the contrary are made.

Don't like their terms ... go build for another device, your own device, or create your own market. Apple are doing nothing to inhibit the creation, design or sale of other devices or app-stores on those devices. And they certainly aren't the dominant platform!

Exactly.
Kinda reminds me when Palm was complaining about Apple breaking the Palm Pre itunes syncing hack where it recognized the Pre's as an Ipod.
lol
They had it listed as one of the phone features also.
Itunes Syncing

 

[pubwvj]

Another way Adobe can get back at Apple. Stop making programs for the Macs. Macs are known mostly for photo and video editing. And Adobe is by far the leader there. Make CS6, 7, etc., Windows only and people will be go back to windows. That will get Apple there too.

Actually, Adobe did this. Adobe started on the Mac. Then at one point they started releasing for Windows and not Mac. I stopped buying upgrades when they came back out. The lack of upgrades had shown me how I just didn't need them. This probably cost Adobe tens of millions of dollars in sales to users like me who realized that Adobe upgrades were not worth the cost, the hassle of all the changes to the interface, etc. I'm still running Photoshop 6. It works.

 

[roland.g]

Maybe Apple can buy Adobe? That would be awesome!

Apple only buys companies that make sense to them from a strategic and profit point of view. Adobe is starting to flounder a little bit. It wouldn't make sense to acquire them. Apple isn't into fixit projects.

 

[vmacintyre]

I _REALLY_ hope Adobe does this and is at least somewhat successful. As much as I hate Flash and anything associated with it, it would be an awesome precedent and since Apple has shown no signs of coming around and opening up their platform, it's definitely time to force them to do it.

kthx

What the hell could you possibly mean by "opening up their platform"? Allowing any lazy developer with any set of tools to create application for Apple's products? That is a ridiculous notion! Allowing such cross-platform development (and I'm talking about native applications, not web apps and the like) results in poor porting and bugs. Look at games designed for Xbox 360 (like Madden, for example) that are ported over to PS3. Terrible quality, the ports are bad and the games do not play as well. The same would happen here. Apple would be giving people license to create sub-standard apps and lower the value of their platform. Wrong Adobe loses.

 

[HiRez]

Adobe may even know they can't win, but just want to cry about it in public to increase pressure on Apple. Which it won't.