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They certainly have turned up the drama to hype the season finale. The ending of this past week's episode was definitely intense. When I think back over the past several seasons it's easy to see how traumatized and feral our survivors have become. Rick is certainly coming across like a loose cannon at this point.

The writers are doing an excellent job of exploring post zombie apocalypse morality and ethics. It's interesting to ponder what happens to mankind when it ceases to be the "apex predator" in it's environment. How does survival morality differ from morality in normal life? Can one reconcile their sense of self with what is required to survive?

I'd argue that in the Alexandria Safe Zone, survival morality still applies. It's been made clear that the people who have duties outside the fence in the examples shown are weak. I'd counter that Rick is not a loose cannon. That his talk of killing the Dr from a survival standpoint makes more sense than exciling him as he could become very dangerous to the community's existence. He's concerned about this battered woman, and although he is attracted to her, it's a legitimate fear that her husband will kill her eventually and all he did was confront him. Actually discovering him at his house, the Dr confronted and assaulted Rick.

By virtue of turning a blind eye to this relationship, the leader Deanna Monroe (former Congress woman) is acknowleging a form of survival morality because they need him as a surgeon, they are willing to allow him to abuse her. I need to go back and review the comic to jog my memory. I remember Rick being whacked (by Michonne?) but I... I won't say any more. I'm looking forward to the Season final. :)
 
I'd argue that in the Alexandria Safe Zone, survival morality still applies.

Definitely, and that's what I'm talking about. The writers are exploring the different ways that different people cope with what has happened and how their sense of morality and sense of self has changed. Rick and his group are handling it one way where as those in Alexandria are handling it another. We saw how the Terminus folks handled it and we saw how the Governor handled it.

As far as Rick being a loose cannon, I don't disagree that his logic is sound, but he's handling it in a pretty extreme way that is not going to play out well with the Alexandrians. He's being a bit sloppy as opposed to Carol's slow and measured approach.
 
I must say that I was a bit surprised at how closely they followed the book in this episode. Some of the scenes in the show looked like panels from the book.

I am still very curious how they will deal with Andrea being dead in the show when she becomes a bigger part of the story. Seems like Sacha is taking on part of her role, but o don't see her as a full replacement.

I also hope that Morgan actually catches up with them (finally) next week.

B
 
Definitely, and that's what I'm talking about. The writers are exploring the different ways that different people cope with what has happened and how their sense of morality and sense of self has changed. Rick and his group are handling it one way where as those in Alexandria are handling it another. We saw how the Terminus folks handled it and we saw how the Governor handled it.

As far as Rick being a loose cannon, I don't disagree that his logic is sound, but he's handling it in a pretty extreme way that is not going to play out well with the Alexandrians. He's being a bit sloppy as opposed to Carol's slow and measured approach.

I agree. Rick sees something that needs fix'n and he launches into it instead of gathering consensus. Too much time "out there" watching people die, I guess. ;)
 
They certainly have turned up the drama to hype the season finale. The ending of this past week's episode was definitely intense. When I think back over the past several seasons it's easy to see how traumatized and feral our survivors have become. Rick is certainly coming across like a loose cannon at this point.

The writers are doing an excellent job of exploring post zombie apocalypse morality and ethics. It's interesting to ponder what happens to mankind when it ceases to be the "apex predator" in it's environment. How does survival morality differ from morality in normal life? Can one reconcile their sense of self with what is required to survive?

It is funny you should mention this. While this is almost a scene for scene shot (if you could call it that) from the comic book, his actions and the way he was acting, reminded me more of the way he started to turn in the Prison scenes during one of the arc's in the comic books. The left this part of out of the show, but in the comic books, the serial rapist/murderer who attacks Andrea arc and the resulting scenes and dialog on what they must decide on to do with the above guy was intense.

I can't wait to see what they do for the finale and I am betting we lose someone big in the episode. For some reason I am thinking Carol or Abraham. Anybody else care to venture if or who we might see go?
 
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I can't wait to see what they do for the finale and I am betting we loose someone big in the episode. For some reason I am thinking Carol or Abraham. Anybody else care to venture if or who we might see go?

I hope we can manage to have a finale without any deaths from the regular cast. ASZ folks and Morgan are exempt though it would suck to tease us and then kill Morgan off in one show.

Rick has gone feral several times in the book and TV show. The worst IMO was the throat biting episode seen in both mediums.

http://www.thewalkingdead.com/season-4-finale-comic-to-show-comparison/

B
 
I hope we can manage to have a finale without any deaths from the regular cast. ASZ folks and Morgan are exempt though it would suck to tease us and then kill Morgan off in one show.

Rick has gone feral several times in the book and TV show. The worst IMO was the throat biting episode seen in both mediums.

http://www.thewalkingdead.com/season-4-finale-comic-to-show-comparison/

B

Thanks for the website... that has some really good side by side comparisons. I have a feeling we are going to lose someone from the core group. Just a hunch. I hope I am wrong.

That was a good and pretty intense scene also!
 
I can't wait to see what they do for the finale and I am betting we loose someone big in the episode. For some reason I am thinking Carol or Abraham. Anybody else care to venture if or who we might see go?

I'd like to think there are some "untouchable" characters at this point who would be too great a loss to the story. Now I know we can't ever say a character is "safe" and the writers like to throw curve balls just to keep the story different from the comics. In my opinion the characters sort of fall into different tiers of importance.

Tier 1 - Rick, Carl, Michonne
Tier 2 - Carol, Daryl, Glenn, Maggie
Tier 3 - Judith, Sasha, Abraham, Rosita, Eugene, Tara, Gabriel
Tier 4 - Everyone else...

I think it would be too much for the audience if we lost anyone from Tier 1 or Tier 2. Tier 3 and everyone else is fair game and their deaths would serve to further the storyline and have an impact on the characters in the first two tiers.
 
I'd like to think there are some "untouchable" characters at this point who would be too great a loss to the story. Now I know we can't ever say a character is "safe" and the writers like to throw curve balls just to keep the story different from the comics. In my opinion the characters sort of fall into different tiers of importance.

Tier 1 - Rick, Carl, Michonne
Tier 2 - Carol, Daryl, Glenn, Maggie
Tier 3 - Judith, Sasha, Abraham, Rosita, Eugene, Tara, Gabriel
Tier 4 - Everyone else...

I think it would be too much for the audience if we lost anyone from Tier 1 or Tier 2. Tier 3 and everyone else is fair game and their deaths would serve to further the storyline and have an impact on the characters in the first two tiers.

Interesting way to look at this. I hope everyone is right, that we don't loose a big name character.
 
I'd like to think there are some "untouchable" characters at this point who would be too great a loss to the story. Now I know we can't ever say a character is "safe" and the writers like to throw curve balls just to keep the story different from the comics. In my opinion the characters sort of fall into different tiers of importance.

Tier 1 - Rick, Carl, Michonne
Tier 2 - Carol, Daryl, Glenn, Maggie
Tier 3 - Judith, Sasha, Abraham, Rosita, Eugene, Tara, Gabriel
Tier 4 - Everyone else...

I think it would be too much for the audience if we lost anyone from Tier 1 or Tier 2. Tier 3 and everyone else is fair game and their deaths would serve to further the storyline and have an impact on the characters in the first two tiers.

Daryl should be Tier 1. He's the general audience's favorite character even though the story line is not mainly focused on his character. Daryl could be missing for several episodes or a season, and nobody would mind as long as he's not dead and will return. I think Carl should be in Tier 2. Carol either Tier 1 or 2, she's always into something interesting and I like how her character has evolved.
 
I agree, at this point Daryl is a Tier 1. He's #2 on the cast roster in the credits. Hard to get rid of a number that low without serious fan blowback. Don't think they'd risk a move like that without a prior reason, like a huge drop in ratings or the show coming to a close. I'd imagine at this point t the financial risk is too great for the producers. They stuck with him as the show rose in viewers and I'd guess it's unlikely he'd be killed off now. Soooo, that means he'll prolly go on the next show. :eek:

Great way of looking at that thru Tier levels.
 
Daryl should be Tier 1.

I agree, at this point Daryl is a Tier 1. He's #2 on the cast roster in the credits. Hard to get rid of a number that low without serious fan blowback.

I love Daryl, Carol, and Glenn and they would all be in my Tier 1 as a fan of the show. That being said, I tried to order the tiers as I think the writers/producers of the show might see things. Losing any character that I put in Tier 2 would have major storyline impact, but that's the kind of thing the writers do to keep the show fresh and unpredictable.

I can remember the shock both my wife and I felt when Rick banished Carol from the group. I couldn't believe the writers were willing to sacrifice her character. Of course, now we know how it played out, but then... it was so hard to believe they were actually going to do that.

Great way of looking at that thru Tier levels.

Thank you. That's my analytical/organized brain at work. ;)
 
Issue #100 of the comic books (the TV show is now around #75) killed off a major character in a particularly gruesome way. One whom I would have thought was untouchable, but hey that's life after the apocalypse.

B
 
Issue #100 of the comic books (the TV show is now around #75) killed off a major character in a particularly gruesome way. One whom I would have thought was untouchable, but hey that's life after the apocalypse.

B

And that death is not only gruesome but very sadistic in it's delivery. Between the characters last words and the callousness of the person delivering the final death blow. Great scene. Shocking but a great scene. There is part of me that hopes this scene does play out in the TV show. I hope they do not shy away from it like they have with the deaths of some of the other characters.
 
I'd like to think there are some "untouchable" characters at this point who would be too great a loss to the story. Now I know we can't ever say a character is "safe" and the writers like to throw curve balls just to keep the story different from the comics. In my opinion the characters sort of fall into different tiers of importance.

Tier 1 - Rick, Carl, Michonne
Tier 2 - Carol, Daryl, Glenn, Maggie
Tier 3 - Judith, Sasha, Abraham, Rosita, Eugene, Tara, Gabriel
Tier 4 - Everyone else...

I think it would be too much for the audience if we lost anyone from Tier 1 or Tier 2. Tier 3 and everyone else is fair game and their deaths would serve to further the storyline and have an impact on the characters in the first two tiers.

I would lump tier 1 and 2 together and still say that everyone is at risk. When they killed off Lori (Rick's wife) in both the comic and the show, I realized everyone was expendable. Andrea should have been in tier 1, yet they killed her off in the show (bastardos! ;)). Everyone is expendable, but I feel like for the show its a finer line when it comes to upsetting the audience and eliminating characters who represent viewership magnets.
 
Predictions for tonight's season finale

I'd like to think there are some "untouchable" characters at this point who would be too great a loss to the story. Now I know we can't ever say a character is "safe" and the writers like to throw curve balls just to keep the story different from the comics. In my opinion the characters sort of fall into different tiers of importance.

Tier 1 - Rick, Carl, Michonne
Tier 2 - Carol, Daryl, Glenn, Maggie
Tier 3 - Judith, Sasha, Abraham, Rosita, Eugene, Tara, Gabriel
Tier 4 - Everyone else...

I think it would be too much for the audience if we lost anyone from Tier 1 or Tier 2. Tier 3 and everyone else is fair game and their deaths would serve to further the storyline and have an impact on the characters in the first two tiers.

I predict either Glenn or Carol will die in the episode tonight :D.
 
[Spoilers]

I am glad to see we did not lose anybody major this time around. Was a close one with Glen though!

Lots of questions!!

I thoroughly enjoyed the episode. They ratcheted the the tension up again towards the end of the episode!!!

[/spoiler]

Thoughts comments?
 
I really enjoyed it. Since I'm not a comic reader I don't know who the "wolves" are, but it certainly looks like next season will be lots of fun. The only thing about the finale I didn't understand is what in the world the coward Alexandria scout guy was doing going over the wall. It would seem that he was purposefully luring Glenn outside to attack him, but they didn't clearly state that so I didn't know if anyone else had a different take on that.

I like season finales where we don't lose any main characters. :D
 
I really enjoyed it. Since I'm not a comic reader I don't know who the "wolves" are,

That's OK, because neither do we! It's a new storyline, like Terminus. Though parts of that had a parallel in the book.

Overall I thought it was a good season finale. Satisfying.

B
 
[Spoilers]

I am glad to see we did not lose anybody major this time around. Was a close one with Glen though!

Lots of questions!!

I thoroughly enjoyed the episode. They ratcheted the the tension up again towards the end of the episode!!!

[/spoiler]

Thoughts comments?

It was a very good finale to a mediocre season. I especially liked the trap that almost got some of the characters.

In my opinion though, this season just seemed like a setup for next season.

----------

It would seem that he was purposefully luring Glenn outside to attack him, but they didn't clearly state that so I didn't know if anyone else had a different take on that.

That's the way I took it.
 
I really enjoyed it. Since I'm not a comic reader I don't know who the "wolves" are, but it certainly looks like next season will be lots of fun. The only thing about the finale I didn't understand is what in the world the coward Alexandria scout guy was doing going over the wall. It would seem that he was purposefully luring Glenn outside to attack him, but they didn't clearly state that so I didn't know if anyone else had a different take on that.

I like season finales where we don't lose any main characters. :D

Yup, we do not either! They are almost on line with "Scavengers" arc in the book. Almost.

Regarding the second bolded item, I was under that impression also.
 
I like season finales where we don't lose any main characters. :D

You would have hated the very old British sci-fi series Blake's 7.

Best ending of any series in my opinion :D.

285169_195331830522471_4561607_n.jpg
 
[Spoilers]

I am glad to see we did not lose anybody major this time around. Was a close one with Glen though!

Lots of questions!!

I thoroughly enjoyed the episode. They ratcheted the the tension up again towards the end of the episode!!!

[/spoiler]

Thoughts comments?

Great season finale. I got a couple of shivers it was so good! Rick, do it!" Carol rocks. "Children like hearing stories. Come at me, yes...no? No." Survival morality going strong. Interesting and good the choices to spare individuals, who could have easily been terminated. Also great seeing Morgan again! :D
 
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