Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Agree. But a consequence of coëxisting, distinct product lines is that the postPC paradigm is a void
(and the pro moniker in iPad Pro and insult to real Pro’s)

My guess is that “Pro” here simply means better. So an iPad Pro is better than a normal iPad in many aspects, from the display to speakers to specs to the camera. It doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s meant for professionals, which is in itself such a generic term that it’s meaningless to even try to define what being a professional entails.

That’s why we don’t see an “iPhone pro”, because iPhones by and large share the same core specs.

Apple’s naming conventions have been fairly weird of late, but I think I am slowly starting to get the trick behind them.
 
For apple they are cheaper.
If there is a supplier with its own patents, R&D, and has to pay its own staff, and get some money out of it, and also has its own fabs, it is just plain logic that intel chips will be more expensive for apple than their own designed SoC’s.
They are not cheaper even for Apple. It all has to due with how the chip is designed. As per the Anandtech article, the A12 probably costs about 50% more to fab than what Qualcomm sells the SD845 for. The reason they can afford to do that is because they know it is going in a very expensive device where they can recoup their costs. Basically Apple can completely ignore the cost of the chip and build it to the best specifications which may not be a valid business plan for a company who sells chips that will go in a multitude of devices.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jecowa
Then do it and then talk. Still don't see why you'd want a crippled garbage bin processor as your driving force behind a workstation.

I'll ask yet again:

WHY do so many of you continue to push the ARM agenda in desktops?

1. Apple is probably producing their own ARM CPUs at a much lower cost than what Intel is charging them for the CPUs used in Macs. If an A12 costs Apple 20 dollars versus an Intel CPU that costs 150 dollars, that's no small change for low-end devices (ex: the so-called low-cost MacBook Air replacement). It would also put Apple in control of their Mac updates, not having to rely on Intel. They had that problem with IBM and the G5 and now history is repeating itself. But this time, they're taking control instead of trying to rely on yet another third-party CPU manufacturer.

2. Apple's ARM CPUs require less power to accomplish the same task than the Intel low-power CPUs which are full of transistors used for legacy compatibility. This would translate in either more hours for portable devices, or lighter devices that run the same number of hours because the battery could be smaller. A smaller battery would further lower the cost of the device. Less power required also means less waste heat from the CPU, which in turn requires less cooling capabilities.

3. We've seen Microsoft run x86 applications on ARM CPUs. Apple has much more experience with this, so they would introduce "Rosetta 2" for the ARM-powered Macs. Not everyone edits videos, not everyone requires lots of processing power. I'm still using my mid-2010 Mac mini and the only time I feel like my Mac is too slow is because of bloated websites wasting RAM and CPU on dozens of Javascript librairies.
[doublepost=1538833873][/doublepost]
$1,000 will easily get you a PSU, Motherboard, RAM, SSD, cooler and GPU. You probably think it's a lot more because you've been lied to by Apple for so long. Computer parts are not THAT expensive.

$300 for Threadripper 2 Motherboard (Asrock X399M)
$130 for 16gb DDR4 RAM (plenty at that price)
$400 for EVGA GTX 1070
$130 for case (Fractal Design Define R6)
$80 for Cooler (Phanteks PH-TC14PE)
$100 for Seasonic PSU X650 (silent)
$90 for Samsung NVME SSD 250gb

Total is $1,230

A little over... and still $6,000 less than an iMac Pro and still nearly twice as fast. And we're not even including TAX on the iMac Pro..... LOL.

Dude come on... you know it's a rip off... why even debate?
That's not a valid comparison. Apple uses Intel processors, so you need to compare with a PC build that uses the same parts as closely as possible.

Otherwise, your argument is simply "an AMD build is cheaper than an Intel build", PC or Mac doesn't even matter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DNichter and jecowa
Why not differentiate a (true) iPad Pro with workstation class connectivity options and extra functionality over the consumer iPads ?
In a postPC-world, one would expect PC-level functionality and similar options or either loss of market- and mind share.
Define "post-pc world". No software can do what windows can do with as much polish and sophistication and depth It's true one needed wintel a long time ago, to check email if that was your only use case for using a computer, now options abound. Now there are proprietary ways to accomplish things that you can't even do on a pc; ie facetime. But the pc is far from dead, although like android it has been commoditized.
 
Last edited:
I think it comes down to differing expectations of what a post-PC device ought to do. Many people seem to have this notion that the iPad ought to essentially run macos in a tablet form factor.

Personally, I don’t think the iPad is destined to become another PC. Apple’s product strategy is based not on coming up with replacements for existing products, but on using personal technology to come up with alternatives to more powerful computers.

By removing barriers between the user and technology, Apple hopes to make the computing experience more intimate, personal and intuitive. Stuff like overlapping windows go against that.

That’s why I don’t think Apple will evolve the iPad in the direction you envision.

Overlapping windows doesn’t go against intimate, personal, and intuitive. They can be those with overlapping windows. I feel my mbp setup is intimate, personal, and intuitive

The purpose of iPads/tablets is for more portability at the expense of utility. The reason they don’t have true multi tasking is simply because they want to create a targeted experience for people.

If you only check your email or do things that don’t require switching between apps (I.e most people), the current state is more than sufficient.

Most people know Apple currently is targeting “most people” and not the outliers
 
I really don't see how the CPU in the iphone is on par as the desktop. My desktop can do so much more like run full office, multiple browsers, VM, etc... unless there is something I am missing.

Second, whatever Apple's CPU got I doubt its way more advanced on whatever is on Android, latest Android phones are on par speed wise with the iphones.
 
Performance wise yes!
Practically: No. At least not yet.
While the A11 already achieved >10k in geekbench, an i5 7th gen scores less than 10k.
However, these CPUs are optimized for phones and tables. Not sure how much changes will be necessary to add 32GB of RAM, PCIe, SATA, USB,... Anyway, ARM CPUs are getting faster a lot quicker than intels, not just Apples Axx.

The 7th gen low-power 2-core i5 score less than the A11. The desktop chips are much much much better than the A11 or A12, but also consume much more power.

You are right that they are developing fast, but Apple is very-very long from matching performance Desktop CPUs. An other thing to mention is that these multi-platform test are not representative as in order to be multi-platform they need to restrict the complexity of the tests and thus get biased towards showing higher scores for ARM.

Test that can test more complex, professional usage either won't run or need to be emulated in some way and thus give very ****** scores.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ohio.emt
You should look into Affinity Photo and Designer for the iPad. These apps easily rival their Mac desktop versions, and are even better in some ways because of their Apple Pencil support.

I know. But those are just about the only apps I know of. We need more powerful apps and here is where Apple should lead.

Affinity Photo is a killer app.
 
When you start talking about emulation you loose the benefits of a fast chip

You lose some of the benefits of a fast chip. You still need a transition strategy involving emulation to get developers over the hump to a new processor. Rosetta work pretty well on the last CPU transition.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Yvan256
I really don't see how the CPU in the iphone is on par as the desktop. My desktop can do so much more like run full office, multiple browsers, VM, etc... unless there is something I am missing.

Second, whatever Apple's CPU got I doubt its way more advanced on whatever is on Android, latest Android phones are on par speed wise with the iphones.

No, android cpus are much slower than iPhone. And iPhone beats them in real world Speedtests. Just to avoid being completely clobbered, Android cpus burn much more power, thus requiring bigger batteries.

Full office would easily run on iPhone. Microsoft has chosen not to release full office mostly because of user interface issues. Same issue with multiple browsers, VM etc. It’s a user interface and battery life issue, not a cpu capability issue.
 
1. Apple is probably producing their own ARM CPUs at a much lower cost than what Intel is charging them for the CPUs used in Macs. If an A12 costs Apple 20 dollars versus an Intel CPU that costs 150 dollars, that's no small change for low-end devices (ex: the so-called low-cost MacBook Air replacement). It would also put Apple in control of their Mac updates, not having to rely on Intel. They had that problem with IBM and the G5 and now history is repeating itself. But this time, they're taking control instead of trying to rely on yet another third-party CPU manufacturer.

2. Apple's ARM CPUs require less power to accomplish the same task than the Intel low-power CPUs which are full of transistors used for legacy compatibility. This would translate in either more hours for portable devices, or lighter devices that run the same number of hours because the battery could be smaller. A smaller battery would further lower the cost of the device. Less power required also means less waste heat from the CPU, which in turn requires less cooling capabilities.

3. We've seen Microsoft run x86 applications on ARM CPUs. Apple has much more experience with this, so they would introduce "Rosetta 2" for the ARM-powered Macs. Not everyone edits videos, not everyone requires lots of processing power. I'm still using my mid-2010 Mac mini and the only time I feel like my Mac is too slow is because of bloated websites wasting RAM and CPU on dozens of Javascript librairies.
[doublepost=1538833873][/doublepost]
That's not a valid comparison. Apple uses Intel processors, so you need to compare with a PC build that uses the same parts as closely as possible.

Otherwise, your argument is simply "an AMD build is cheaper than an Intel build", PC or Mac doesn't even matter.
Your first point should not be about lowered cost. Because all that means is Apple will make more money. You can bet they won't be lowering their price because the price to make it is lower.
 
Your first point should not be about lowered cost. Because all that means is Apple will make more money. You can bet they won't be lowering their price because the price to make it is lower.
Based on their SEC filings their profit margin stays pretty constant as they change technologies. Seems likely they would reduce prices and keep their 35 percent profit margin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Yvan256
Based on their SEC filings their profit margin stays pretty constant as they change technologies. Seems likely they would reduce prices and keep their 35 percent profit margin.
Has their ever been an instance in recent times that the have lowered their price?
 
No, android cpus are much slower than iPhone. And iPhone beats them in real world Speedtests. Just to avoid being completely clobbered, Android cpus burn much more power, thus requiring bigger batteries.

Full office would easily run on iPhone. Microsoft has chosen not to release full office mostly because of user interface issues. Same issue with multiple browsers, VM etc. It’s a user interface and battery life issue, not a cpu capability issue.

Why do Apple need to throttle their amazing processors if they're so brilliantly power efficient?

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/05/yet-another-iphone-slowdown-class-action/

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...dian-parliament-says-not-planned-obsolescence

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ile/apple-iphone-battery-performance-dip/amp/
 
  • Like
Reactions: ipponrg
Has their ever been an instance in recent times that the have lowered their price?
Both the iPad and Apple Watch were underpriced compared to the competition at the time.
[doublepost=1538840303][/doublepost]

Do you understand the difference between power efficiency and thermal solution? The amount of power consumed per computation is completely different than the power dissipated per square mm.
 
Both the iPad and Apple Watch were underpriced compared to the competition at the time.
[doublepost=1538840303][/doublepost]

Do you understand the difference between power efficiency and thermal solution? The amount of power consumed per computation is completely different than the power dissipated per square mm.
So the answer is no, they have never lowered their price.
 
So the answer is no, they have never lowered their price.

Never is wrong. They have in the past. Heck, they did it on the original iPhone, and sent me a refund for the difference after the price drop.

Not recently. But of course the technology in their phones has gotten more expensive, not cheaper.
 
MacBook Air. Started at $1,799. With 2 GB RAM, 80 GB spinning hard disk, 1 port, and an anemic 1.6 GHz cpu that still managed to overheat.
Also the non-pro model iPads. Which again shows that when technology gets cheaper they pass the savings on to customers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Yvan256
Most people buying these new phones just want them to be able to connect to the LTE network and charge when plugged in. Two major issues at the moment. No one cares what's inside.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Delgibbons
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.