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Absolutely. If this is their attitude over this they can stick their iPhone. I've never been able to replicate this problem with any other smartphone I have either owned or demoed.

I could make this happen on some older phones I've had over the years but they never stopped the phone from functioning as much as it does with the iPhone 4. You lost bars, but not complete signals!

Well, come on over here and I'll show you my Blackberry Tour dropping from 3 to 0 bars, and dropping a call, here in my office when I touch the bottom half of it.

There's no difference between losing bars and losing the signal; it's a question of degree, not kind. Same with the folks who see their "bars" drop then shoot back up when the device detects more interference and maxed out the power to the antenna ... if you are already in that mode because the reception is sketchy, "losing bars" will in fact cause you to lose signal and drop calls. And, yes, the same is true of the iPhone 4; if you bridge the two antennas you will attenuate the signal similar in amplitude to a thick hand, which will either cause the device to use more power to keep a strong signal or will cause the signal to be lost if the device has no more "power" to give.

I love the Flat Earth Society here denying dense-body radio signal attenuation. It's quaint. The fact that the heads of two major internationally once-technology companies are leading the Flat Earth Society charge says a lot about where those companies are today. I think I'd rather purchase a cell phone from a company which understands basic physics instead, thank you!
 

Where's the tip 1 finger ? the guy is basically using 2 fingers to cover the side and bottom completely and the top at the same time. Not a way that I'd normally hold a phone. Not like the iPhone 4 at all.

Aggie, this is the kind of misinformation some of the more inclined members of the "Apple does no wrong" crowd posts to counter the complainers. It's an insult to the intelligence of people to try and claim this is a proof the iPhone 4 is not flawed...
 
Not to mention:

One, tiny spot on the Blackberry Bold

There are many more examples...

Uh ? The guy doesn't show where his hand is touching, how can you conclude One Tiny spot ? First he's touching the phone at 2 spots and we don't see the other half of the phone or his hand...

Again more misinformation and deflection. Guys this is getting lame.

Like Nokia and RIM said : They don't design that way.
 
Like Nokia and RIM said : They don't design that way.

Except, of course, that they do.

The desperation and rage of you two would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
 
3 fingers. 1 on the side, 1 on the bottom, 1 on the top.

I know. There's always some video that purports to show the same thing, and it's never even close. Either you can't see any hands because they only filmed the bars, or there are five guys touching it in different places at the same time, or the thing is buried in someone's fist. I'm not saying it's impossible that some phone doesn't act like iPhone 4. I'm saying nothing steve job presented, and nothing on apple's website, shows any phone behaving like that, and i've yet to see a video on these forums that shows it where you can see the bars and the single finger at the same time.

How likely is it that one would balance their phone upon their fingertip?

Of course he's holding the other side - whether for support, or not, its not really relevant.

This is exactly why i hold the i4 the way i do. How likely is it i would balance it precariously in my fingertips to avoid detuning?
 
Uh ? The guy doesn't show where is hand is touching, how can you conclude One Tiny spot ? First he's touching the phone at 2 spots and we don't see the other half of the phone or his hand...

Again more misinformation and deflection. Guys this is getting lame.

Like Nokia and RIM said : They don't design that way.

How likely is it that one would balance their phone upon their fingertip?

Of course he's holding the other side - whether for support, or not, its not really relevant.

Observe what happens when the thumb contacts the area near the 'call end' button.' I hold phones this way all the time, and apparently, it's wrong.
 
Yes I'd rather Steve give people the option of blu-ray playback on OS X. Overall, I don't hate Apple. I don't like how they've handled this situation, I don't like their stance on Blu-ray, but I don't love/hate corporations.

Most large retail outlets are already considering the BlueRay format a bust, no one will buy them so stocks are high, the increase in performance is not perceived as big enough to reverse the download/streaming storm. Watch for massive price reductions, can you say Beta ?

My book says Jobs got it right
 
How likely is it that one would balance their phone upon their fingertip?

Of course he's holding the other side - whether for support, or not, its not really relevant.

Observe what happens when the thumb contacts the area near the 'call end' button.' I hold phones this way all the time, and apparently, it's wrong.

It is relevant. With the iPhone, 1 misplaced finger does it. End of story. With these phones, it seems it requires touching absurdly big and opposite surfaces to manage to replicate the problem, which would never happen when holding it normally. Something 1 small finger tip sized spot can result in and as obviously or the press wouldn't be all over this after 25 years of mobile phones...

That is the point that started this entire thing and RIM's and Nokia's and HTC's point. Their phones don't have a single point of failure. Sure you can replicate it if you smother the things, heck, my Sony Ericsson you had to cover the top back completely, but that's not an issue holding it normally.

You're downplaying of this issue only serves to exacerbate the whining and complaining problem. I was seriously through with all this until you guys started posting this crap. It's as much misinformation as people who pretend this is crippling flaw 100% of the time and you will drop 100% of calls.

Most large retail outlets are already considering the BlueRay format a bust, no one will buy them so stocks are high, the increase in performance is not perceived as big enough to reverse the download/streaming storm. Watch for massive price reductions, can you say Beta ?

My book says Jobs got it right

Not this crap again. Educate yourself on Blu-ray's success. Hint : At this point, 5 years into the format, it's more successful than DVD was 5 years into its reign. DVD is a bust ? Seriously, no, let's not do this here, it's not the topic at all.
 
The anger is about the fact that Apple has broken the code of omerta... the code of silence.
The secret is now out. Cell phone reception can be crappy.

But everyone knew this all along. The iPhone 4 just became a reason to take shots at the top dog.
 
Did you miss this from the OP?



The FCC doesn't care where the antennae are located.

The FCC cares about how much RF is projected into human's head - a small shield can prevent a top-mounted antenna from irradiating the human.

In any event, did you notice how the Iphone 4 antenna is actually a wrap-around antenna that's on part of the top of the phone? Only the gap of death is on the bottom of the phone. (see attached picture)

All these arguments that "the antenna has to be on the bottom" have been blindly ignoring the simple fact that the Iphone 4's external antenna covers the bottom, front (or back if you hold it in your right hand) and part of the top of the Iphone 4.

First of all:

http://www.cultofmac.com/antenna-ex...sponsible-for-iphone-4-reception-issues/48386

http://www.theatlantic.com/science/...phone-4-antenna-problem-the-fccs-fault/58733/

I understand just fine how the iPhone's antenna works and that it goes around the entire device.

What you need to understand is that the larger 2/3 portion on the right is actually two antennas, hence the separation slit. The portion on the right is for Edge, while the bottom is 3G as that is the network that people will be on most. Hence the primary cell antenna is on the BOTTOM as the FCC now encourages! :rolleyes:
 
Their phones don't have a single point of failure.
Precisely, as the video suggests, the regions of failure are potentially much larger on other phones, easier to trigger, when compared to a single, millimeter gap.

It's as much misinformation as people who pretend this is crippling flaw 100% of the time and you will drop 100% of calls.

No one is claiming that other phone's flaws are 100% either - it is an issue nonetheless.

The anger is about the fact that Apple has broken the code of omerta... the code of silence.
The secret is now out. Cell phone reception can be crappy.

But everyone knew this all along.
You are quite correct.
 
Since you keep reposting this, I'll reply to it even though it was not addressed to me.

Hum, are you comparing a broad reaching patent lawsuit that comes after 3 years of negotiation for patents which are legitimate and licensed by many other tech companies to some frivolous slander lawsuit ?

Having a "lawsuit happy culture" means just that, frivolous suits over "he said, she said" crap. Patents are a completely other thing and involve big dollars, on both sides.

... As opposed to libel saying that your products have a flaw which they don't have? That doesn't involve big dollars, on both sides? How much money does Apple make from the iPhone? How much are they giving away as a result of this non-issue? How much would Nokia stand to lose if it had the kind of media attention on their faulty antennas as has been placed on the iPhone 4 (they had a recent model which had horrible attenuation issues, and of the same sort - galvanic - as iPhone 4, but got very little press about it)?

In any case, you are making a far finer point now than your original claim. "Lawsuit happy culture" means exactly what it says: a culture whereby wrongs are redressed by lawsuit. Now you say that in Finland/Canada they will happily sue you for things that involve "big dollars", but not if it involves libelous claims.

Seems a bit of a stretch of the facts, and too fine a cut to make rhetorical sense to begin with.

My comment still stands and next time, at least try to think before you post.

Good advice, to be sure.
 
And some complainers post rebuttals to the defense squad because they would spread misinformation :

1- 0.55% of iPhone 4s have the problem : Wrong!

2- 1% more dropped calls than 3GS: Wrong!

3- If you don't like it, return it : Sorry,

Sweetie, let me respond:

1- 0.55% of iPhone 4s have the problem : Wrong!

You are correct: 0.55% of iPhone 4 users have called Applecare about it. So, yes, we don’t know the real number of iPhone 4 owners who have the reception issue, but he did give the return rate so far compared to the 3GS last year which has some bearing on what this number might be. Unlike some of you, I doubt you’ll see this change much in the week remaining. I haven’t seen people in store complaining. Neither has the media or their reports would be different. However, Apple could possibly be more transparent and give the figures you want, but they didn’t. All of this could be answered if someone performed a scientific poll through a reputable polling company. Anyway, it’s a moot point in a few more days, since if we don’t see droves of people returning their phones, then either Jobs numbers came close to estimating this or people are just going to keep a phone that doesn’t make calls.

2- 1% more dropped calls than 3GS: Wrong!

Those rates are for all AT&T phones. Whatever the number for the 3GS, which is what we care about, Jobs stated that it was less than 1% higher. So even if it is 20% higher with the way you used the statistics for this, the real result is that you’re not going to notice it.

3- If you don't like it, return it : Sorry

I agree with you on the people who have got caught in waiting for Apple to respond and their 30 days is up. I’ve emailed Jobs with some proposals that might make those people happy. I haven’t heard back.
 
It's a troll indeed, it's pure flamebait, but it's true. iPhone 4 requires 1 finger, the tip only actually, pressed at a precise spot very lightly. Other phones require cupping.

... but to the same effect and the same likelihood of occurring.

The max attenuation from cross-circuit detuning is rather low; significant enough that it can be demonstrated in the right situations, but much less common than standard dense-body attenuation. In the general case, it is easily overcome by increasing power to the antenna (ex, if half power is lost due to reflection in the antenna, then doubling the power will result in the same signal as without that reflection).

Standard dense-body attenuation is a much harder problem to solve because it can be significantly more severe, because pumping additional "lost" power through many dense bodies (ex, your head) can have other adverse affects, and because it's impossible to control without major user interaction. This is a major reason why the iPhone's external antenna gets significantly less attenuation then the internal antennas on Blackberries, for instance (it removes the nearest attenuation source, which given the power law of radio transmission is almost always the most significant source of attenuation). Throw a hand in the mix on one side, and a head in the mix on the other, and you have some significant attenuation, which has a far greater potential for disrupting the signal than cross-circuit detuning.
 
No one is claiming that other phone's flaws are 100% either - it is an issue nonetheless.

You are quite correct.

I think everyone can agree that the flaw was the external antenna design. Steve Jobs stated so himself, though he lacked intelligent discourse, which of course sent some people into a frenzy. The solution however seems reasonable to me at least. The bumper should insulate the antenna remove the offending flaw as much as the examples Apple displayed in the presentation. This is the solution provided, so you'll have to live with it. If you are already past your 30 day mark, I would take that up with Apple directly and ask for a older 3GS model to replace the iPhone 4. I believe that is a reasonable request, and would probably be heard by Apple support. (I haven't tried, but I'm sure that's better to Apple than lawsuits.):apple:
 
I can death grip my nokia around the antenna, very little signal loss. Care to explain that?

The most I've managed to get my Nokia E71 to drop is by putting one hand flat over the back and one over the keyboard and clamping tight. I got -8dB. Of course, I couldn't use the phone like that. :D

If I partly cover the antennae just like a leftie using an iPhone 4, it doesn't drop anything but boosts power draw slightly to alleviate. The iPhone drops -20dB according to Anand. If I do the same silly grip as my Nokia it dropped -24dB.

I notice Apple haven't put any demos of Nokias suffering the same problems as iPhones or Blackberries on their site. Steve did mention 'stickers' though on Nokias telling us not to hold them there. I've never seen these stickers, ever. I've had a few Nokias over the years.
 
I'm lefthanded. When I hold an iPhone most comfortably and securely my hand is in contact with that corner.

Way off-topic here, but until this little dust-up I had never realized that so many people thought right-handed folks hold the phone in their right hand and left-handed folks hold it in their left. Personally, I find I hold my phone more often in my left hand than in my right, because my right hand is working on something else or needs to be free to write something down, etc. On the other hand, I do hold it in my right hand if there's a bunch of wind or noise to my left, and I never really think about it. Does that make me mobile-phone-ambidextrous?

It'd be interesting to hear how many folks use their "primary" hand when holding a phone, and how many keep that hand free to do something more important ...
 
Are folks seriously believing this line from Steve Jobs that all phones have this problem?

Are you really serious?

Can you really be that gullible? Do you believe any marketing spin you hear from Apple? Really?

Or are you just trying to come up with something to defend apple?

Ummm ... for one, I was saying that my Blackberry has the same problem about two weeks ago. I'm not taking Jobs word here, I'm believing my own tests with my Blackberry Tour.

Second, I don't need either Jobs' statements or my own research to know that dense body radio signal attenuation is a major major issue for any antenna. Those of us old enough to have dealt with rabbit ear antennas and how the entire signal on the TV would just "go away" when Mom walked across the kitchen in the next room, know all about the power of dense body signal attenuation. If you're too young to know it by experience, you can gain the same knowledge by picking up an introductory physics textbook.

Did Blackberry and Nokia somehow overcome the laws of physics and make their phones immune to the massive dense bodies (your head and your hand) which are necessarily placed in close quarters with the phone when it is in use?

I'm pretty sure if they had, there'd be some mention of it in the more recent textbooks by now. But I don't see it.

So, all that having been said: Nokia and RIM's CEOs say that physics and engineering are bunk and that none of their phones suffer from attenuation, and you believe it? Are you really serious? Can you really be that gullible?
 
So, all that having been said: Nokia and RIM's CEOs say that physics and engineering are bunk and that none of their phones suffer from attenuation, and you believe it? Are you really serious? Can you really be that gullible?

No they don't. They say they don't suffer from the problem the i4 suffers from. And that is true.
 
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