'Antennagate' Reactions: RIM, Nokia, Taiwanese Animation

[ggibson913]

Funny Stuff

I read through these threads and I have to say pretty funny stuff. The fact that SJ tried to throw other companies under the bus was the wrong tactic for sure.

I read those who posted that Apple is justified in thier actions and i couldnt help but think to myself had any other cell manufacturer with a similar problem performed that demo with an iPhone, those same folks who are justifying it would be trashing those other companies as we speak.

Personally, i have owned both the 3G and the 3GS and think the press has thus far given Apple a pass on continuing cell reception issues. You can point to ATT all you want but my friends who have other ATT phones don't have anywhere near the reception issues i had with the iPhone.

So follow Apples advice and if the problem persists, return the phone for a full refund and get something that works better for you.

 

[gehrbox]

John Gruber has this covered at Daring Fireball.

Seems the unique behavior is far more widespread then they would have you believe.

 

[PerfSeeker]

I'd like an anime version.

 

[tkingart]

LOL that video is cheesy, disturbing, and funny all at the same time! The part that made me really laugh was when the police busted Chen's door down.

 

[jettredmont]

Some people think you can just touch one spot on the iPhone 4 - and for them that may be the case. For me it isn't. I need to wrap my hand around the phone and even then I stay connected at 1 bar. Under some conditions it may be possible to touch one spot on a different phone and get the same effect. I don't hold with the 'bridging the gap' theory mind. I think that's just a case of projecting. Two and two, doesn't make four!

You're on the right track with "under some conditions".

The core issue here is that extending the resonance length of the antenna by connecting it electrically with the adjoining antenna is a fairly weak source of signal degradation. If you are in a very questionable signal area, that little experiment will work, and it's dramatic as can be. Set the phone down, put it on speaker phone, gently touch the black insulator line with a wet finger, and watch the call drop.

A MUCH more significant source of signal degradation is dense-body attenuation. Radio waves tend to not travel well through dense bodies such as our own. Your hand is made up of a lot of water (and when you "death grip" something you increase the blood flow to the hand, increasing its density). So, it also affects the signal strength. Given how significant dense-body attenuation is, you'll see this effect in many areas where the cross-connect detuning trick above just won't work.

No matter which source of attenuation is present, the radio circuitry's first line of "defense" is to boost the power to the antenna. Of course, it has to assume dense-body attenuation and so there are limits as to how much power the FCC will allow you to pump into an antenna typically held 2 inches from the brain. So, if you go from an okay connection and hit either of the above, you will not see any effects (although some Blackberries will show this as the signal dropping bars for about 5 seconds then immediately regaining them). To see lasting effects from the above, you need to be in a "spotty" enough signal area that the antenna "boost" is already maxed out.

So, two possible theories here:

1. Your finger isn't highly electrically conductive (try wetting it first and see if it works).

2. You just aren't in a truly bad area, signal-wise, so you aren't seeing the effects of the detuning.

All that having been said, your advice is really spot on. The physics here isn't new, and the science isn't complicated. Drop the "my phone does; my phone doesn't" BS and accept the facts. Saying any particular phone is immune to basic laws of physics is just plain ignorant, even if you're the CEO of a major telecommunications innovator.

 

[blipper]

Sir you do not understand. I am on the Verizon network. Where I live, you have trouble finding dead-spots in their network. Outside of where I live you will have trouble finding dead-spots. This last christmas I went christmas tree hunting in the Lassen national forest and was still using 3G at 8,0000 ft in the middle of nowhere in the forest. I'm not migratory, but I'm not sitting in the same spot.

Exactly! I have taken two cellphones into the Mt. Baker National Wilderness --- one an iPhone on ATT -- that lost signal in the trailhead parking lot --- the other, an LG Decoy on Verizon --- that still had two bars in the middle of nowhere at the end of the Ptarmigan Ridge trail.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

And some complainers post rebuttals to the defense squad because they would spread misinformation :

1- 0.55% of iPhone 4s have the problem : Wrong! 0.55% of iPhone 4 users have called Applecare about it. This leaves out the fact that some went to the Apple Store, unknown number, some went to AT&T, unknown number, some went to O2 UK, unknown number, some complained on the Internet, unknown number, some waited patiently for a response from Apple, unknown number. Steve's comment was disingenuous and made in a way to mislead. It did, as now people are saying there's only 0.55% of units affected (well, at least, people in the iPhone 4 defense squad). It's 100% of units, Steve didn't deny it with only users in low signal areas seeing it represented on the bar display or dropping calls.

.

You should read HTC response to that part. They stated that their call in rate for signal issues was at 0.016% or other wise 35 times less than apple.
I though HTC response was pretty good at well. Apple is rightfully so getting rip by the other guys. Apple screwed up. THe other big players were not saying anything until Apple dragged them in and I have a feeling it is going to backfire on Apple part or more so already is backfiring.

 

[blipper]

Ummm ... except that both have not hesitated to sue Apple in the past, and certainly have not hesitated to sue other competitors for misleading statements in the past.

If a company makes a misleading or flat out untrue claim, the only appropriate response is to sue or threaten to sue. Nokia has done this in the past. Blackberry has done this in the past.

The fact that neither is doing anything more than issuing a sternly-worded PR notice in this case is telling.

More realistically, the press conference was on Friday in California. The lack of a lawsuit by Monday doesn't mean there isn't going to be one.

 

[chatin]

Apple is rightfully so getting rip by the other guys. Apple screwed up.

The iPhones have been dropping calls since 2007 when the "complex interactions in the communications software" produced the infamous long-standing bug.

Nokia doesn't have the bug partly because they do serious telecommunications not iPods that call home.

 

[chukronos]

Actually I CAN answer that! The FCC is pretty much requiring handset makers to place antennas at the bottom of the phones now so as to have radio frequency as far away from the head as possible.

nope. I think you missed this:

It has been stated several times, but it is incorrect. I do not think you understand what the FCC requires. The antenna does not have to be on the bottom. The Droid antenna is on the top.

Location of the HTC Droid Eris' main antenna - from Apple(http://www.apple.com/antenna/):

Actually I CAN answer that! The FCC is pretty much requiring handset makers to place antennas at the bottom of the phones now so as to have radio frequency as far away from the head as possible.

 

[scoobydoo99]

Perhaps, but my point still stands. Honestly, have you ever owned a cellphone prior to the iPhone 4 that had a signal deteriorate upon holding in a normal cellphone-holding manner?

Well, I think the question is, before this issue was brought under such scrutiny with the iPhone4 release, how often did we have this issue WITHOUT knowing or questioning why? I mean there are certain situations where all of us have experienced poor or no reception or dropped calls. Maybe in a subway or a downtown area surrounded by buildings or in an elevator or whatever. We don't think twice about it, because mobile phone technology isn't perfect. Similarly, we sometimes experience those issues without an obvious reason or at times we didn't expect to. Some people seldom have problems, others have them often. How many times could it be that we held or gripped our phone in such a way that we degraded the signal? How often have you held your phone out from your body and high up while spinning around trying to get a "good signal"? I've done it. I've also changed the way I've held a phone (way before the iPhone4 release) to minimize the area of contact with my skin just because I intuitively knew that this would get me the best signal. Point is, we don't expect perfection from mobile phones and most of us intuitively understand that.

Now I'm not an Apple fanboy and I'm not saying there aren't things Apple can do to improve reception. But I do think the firestorm of criticism is based solely on the fact that Apple is a media and Wall Street darling and everyone likes to take stars down a notch. There are haters that are just DYING to see Apple fail. That is apparent from most of the unfounded, emotional attacks we see in forums now. But reason will ultimatley prevail amongst those that matter - the buying public.

 

[gehrbox]

Well, I think the question is, before this issue was brought under such scrutiny with the iPhone4 release, how often did we have this issue WITHOUT knowing or questioning why? I mean there are certain situations where all of us have experienced poor or no reception or dropped calls. Maybe in a subway or a downtown area surrounded by buildings or in an elevator or whatever. We don't think twice about it, because mobile phone technology isn't perfect. Similarly, we sometimes experience those issues without an obvious reason or at times we didn't expect to. Some people seldom have problems, others have them often. How many times could it be that we held or gripped our phone in such a way that we degraded the signal? How often have you held your phone out from your body and high up while spinning around trying to get a "good signal"? I've done it. I've also changed the way I've held a phone (way before the iPhone4 release) to minimize the area of contact with my skin just because I intuitively knew that this would get me the best signal. Point is, we don't expect perfection from mobile phones and most of us intuitively understand that.

Now I'm not an Apple fanboy and I'm not saying there aren't things Apple can do to improve reception. But I do think the firestorm of criticism is based solely on the fact that Apple is a media and Wall Street darling and everyone likes to take stars down a notch. There are haters that are just DYING to see Apple fail. That is apparent from most of the unfounded, emotional attacks we see in forums now. But reason will ultimatley prevail amongst those that matter - the buying public.

Nicely thought out reply.

 

[MacFly123]

nope. I think you missed this:

And it is the ONLY phone on that page with the antenna at the top. I never said ALL PHONES, but the FCC is highly encouraging it, and you will see most new phones that come out will comply!

Well, I think the question is, before this issue was brought under such scrutiny with the iPhone4 release, how often did we have this issue WITHOUT knowing or questioning why? I mean there are certain situations where all of us have experienced poor or no reception or dropped calls. Maybe in a subway or a downtown area surrounded by buildings or in an elevator or whatever. We don't think twice about it, because mobile phone technology isn't perfect. Similarly, we sometimes experience those issues without an obvious reason or at times we didn't expect to. Some people seldom have problems, others have them often. How many times could it be that we held or gripped our phone in such a way that we degraded the signal? How often have you held your phone out from your body and high up while spinning around trying to get a "good signal"? I've done it. I've also changed the way I've held a phone (way before the iPhone4 release) to minimize the area of contact with my skin just because I intuitively knew that this would get me the best signal. Point is, we don't expect perfection from mobile phones and most of us intuitively understand that.

Now I'm not an Apple fanboy and I'm not saying there aren't things Apple can do to improve reception. But I do think the firestorm of criticism is based solely on the fact that Apple is a media and Wall Street darling and everyone likes to take stars down a notch. There are haters that are just DYING to see Apple fail. That is apparent from most of the unfounded, emotional attacks we see in forums now. But reason will ultimatley prevail amongst those that matter - the buying public.

I agree!

 

[bkspero]

It should be easy to settle at least part of the disagreement

There's been tons of disagreement about whether Apple's videos prove that other phones are as prone as the iP4 to dropping calls due to holding the phone in a natural fashion. If I may summarize, some are using them as proof, and others are saying that, at most, the videos only show that a few phones lost a few bars and that none dropped calls.

It should be easy to settle this point once and for all. Let's post links to the videos showing dropped calls with all of the current generation, first tier phones. The HTC Evo, the Moto Droid X, the HTC Droid, whichever of the Samsung S variants that are available, and a few BB phones (maybe the Bold 9650 and the 9700). Not lost bars. Not on some 2nd tier or out of production phones (like the Nexus 1). Not on just a few of these phones. But consistently dropped calls on each of them when held normally. When we do that, it will be impossible to argue that this is an iP4 issue.

I am not familiar enough with what is out there to know where to look for them, but it should be pretty easy for someone with expertise to collect and post them for the others. That would shut up the naysayers, at least on that issue.

One more thing, if we try and deflect this issue by ridiculing the other phones on different grounds instead of demonstrating their collective dropped-call/antenna issues, it will be pretty damning evidence that this flaw is much more an iP4 issue than it is a general smartphone issue. And the list of mostly 2nd rate videos shown so far really don't cut it (mostly older phones, or only lost bars, or with other flaws). So let's get the conclusive evidence and shut up the critics.

 

[PerfSeeker]

If the many features of the i4 aren't of enough value to you to outweigh the need to add a small bandaid to the corner (which many do not even need to do to successfully make calls), or use a (potentially free!) case, then there's very little reason for you to reconsider.

Whatever you think the current alternative product is for you, is and will likely stay the better choice for you, since you value the i4's display, gyro, improved GPS, improved camera, Facetime, etc. as worth so little to you.

Phone is the #1 primary function of the device. Obviously to you it's an app device which sometimes masquerades as a phone. Most don't look at it like that. Bandaid solutions don't cut it when we're talking about a "superphone". More Reality Distortion Field.

 

[PerfSeeker]

There's been tons of disagreement about whether Apple's videos prove that other phones are as prone as the iP4 to dropping calls due to holding the phone in a natural fashion. If I may summarize, some are using them as proof, and others are saying that, at most, the videos only show that a few phones lost a few bars and that none dropped calls.

It should be easy to settle this point once and for all. Let's post links to the videos showing dropped calls with all of the current generation, first tier phones. The HTC Evo, the Moto Droid X, the HTC Droid, whichever of the Samsung S variants that are available, and a few BB phones (maybe the Bold 9650 and the 9700). Not lost bars. Not on some 2nd tier or out of production phones (like the Nexus 1). Not on just a few of these phones. But consistently dropped calls on each of them when held normally. When we do that, it will be impossible to argue that this is an iP4 issue.

I am not familiar enough with what is out there to know where to look for them, but it should be pretty easy for someone with expertise to collect and post them for the others. That would shut up the naysayers, at least on that issue.

One more thing, if we try and deflect this issue by ridiculing the other phones on different grounds instead of demonstrating their collective dropped-call/antenna issues, it will be pretty damning evidence that this flaw is much more an iP4 issue than it is a general smartphone issue. And the list of mostly 2nd rate videos shown so far really don't cut it (mostly older phones, or only lost bars, or with other flaws). So let's get the conclusive evidence and shut up the critics.

Standard flip-phones don't have the issue, which is why I'm holding on to my Motorola V330 for now. I'm gonna give any smartphone the full proctology exam on the antenna.

 

[Avalontor]

Against my better judgement, I wade into this quagmire. Right, my take, trying to keep things calm, fair and focussed:

1) That video is mostly awesome. Mostly.

2) According to various sources, iPhone 4 appears to have a design flaw that for an unknown proportion of users interferes with regular, everyday use. Nevertheless, this issue appears to has been overblown by the media.

3) The issue is recognised in other phones, but does not appear to interfere with regular, everyday use as these phones are designed differently.

4) Using a bumper more or less solves the problem.

5) Dragging other manufacturers into it lacks class. Them not suing only means them not suing - nothing more or less.

6) To decide if the iPhone 4 is worth buying or will cause a problem, people should field test one and see if their usage pattern will be affected by the*flaw.

Does this post present an accurate, fair and level-headed take?

Yes.

 

[KnightWRX]

Precisely, as the video suggests, the regions of failure are potentially much larger on other phones, easier to trigger, when compared to a single, millimeter gap.

Someone doesn't understand single point of failure it seems.

The regions are larger, that is a GOOD thing. The regions are many, again, a GOOD thing. This is Apple's failure, the single millimeter gap. Placed right where you hold the phone normally in the left hand.

You are in fact agreeing with me that there is a flaw in the iPhone 4's design, but since you don't understand the terminology (Single Point of Failure), you think you're saying the opposite.

Other phones require many spots to be covered. These spots are larger, requiring more surface area of your fingers/hand to cover. This makes the phone LESS prone to the problem, not more. It makes it HARDER, not EASIER to reproduce the issue like you state, that is your error.

The iPhone 4 has 1 weak spot, it's small. It's also badly placed.

I'm glad we finally agree Apple failed, tried to blame others and they just thumbed their nose at them, telling them to fix their crap.

Sweetie, let me respond:

2- 1% more dropped calls than 3GS: Wrong!

Those rates are for all AT&T phones. Whatever the number for the 3GS, which is what we care about, Jobs stated that it was less than 1% higher. So even if it is 20% higher with the way you used the statistics for this, the real result is that you’re not going to notice it.

Glad we agree on points 1 and 2, it's refreshing to see some openess from your camp.

No, about this, notice that Steve never said 1 percent. He said 1 more call per 100 calls. People are twisting this. This is what I was denouncing and you will agree with me that it is disingenious.

Steve said out of 100 total calls (dropped or not), iPhone 4 drops 1 more than the 3GS. We don't know the base dropped calls vs total calls. Notice this isn't percentages more yet. Their model average is 4.5% of dropped calls. I know this is not specific to the 3GS, but let's assume it is just for math's sake here (either way, more or less, looks bad for Apple/AT&T, so it doesn't matter anyhow, nothing is positive about dropped calls).

So the 3GS drops 4.5 calls out of 100. iPhone 4 is reported as dropping 1 more. 5.5 out of 100.

("But he said < 1". Yes he did. If it was closer to 0.5 than 1, he would have said 0.5 or 1 out of 200. This makes me think that it is very close to 1 or at least closer to 1 than 0.5... anyway, simplify!(ah! can't use that one now can you ?)).

That isn't 1% more dropped calls than the 3GS. That's 1% more dropped calls out of total calls compared to the 3GS. This is the disingenious part. If it was 1% more dropped calls, it wouldn't be 5.5 vs 4.5, it would be 4.545 vs 4.5, which indeed looks like a rounding error. However, 5.5 is in all actuality 22% more. This indicates something is very wrong. 22% more dropped calls (not talking total calls here) with a better antenna and better reception ? Something is amiss.

Just to drive it home, if you dropped 100 calls before, now you are dropping 122 calls. This is not insignificant.

Hence why it is in Apple's best interest and in the fans best interest to spin this number has much as possible to make it seem much less significant. Why did Apple come forth with this number ? Good question. Maybe they were afraid it would get out if AT&T felt they were being blamed. Maybe they were afraid it would get out period. Getting it out there in a controlled manner (You spin me right round...) with proper PR spin was their best move
probably. And it worked seeing all the 1% more dropped calls!

 

[mkschenk]

Yeah

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.2; en-gb; Nexus One Build/FRF91) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

Wtf @ video?

I'm with you on that one

 

[DMann]

Someone doesn't understand single point of failure it seems.

The regions are larger, that is a GOOD thing.

Argue semantics all you want.

While holding a Blackberry Bold, with the right hand, index finder on left, thumb on right, one can bring the signal down to zero by placing one's thumb upon the side .

Would you prefer calling this a double point of failure?

Do you believe that having a larger right side region, prone to attenuation, without precision, is somehow better?

Other phones require many spots to be covered.

The Blackberry Bold requires two.

These spots are larger, requiring more surface area of your fingers/hand to cover.

Really, requires more surface area?

Or does it merely require contact anywhere within that region?

I'm glad we finally agree Apple failed, tried to blame others and they just thumbed their nose at them, telling them to fix their crap.

That's your spin.

No one blamed anyone, nor thumbed noses at anyone here.

Had CR tested all smart phones with the same scrutiny, instead of implying that only the iPhone is prone to attenuation, then Apple wouldn't have deemed it necessary to raise awareness that all smart phones attenuate, in their unique ways.

Raising awareness ≠ blame, nose thumbing

 

[KnightWRX]

The Blackberry Bold requires two.


Really, requires more surface area?

Or does it merely require contact anywhere within that region?

So does it require 2 or any of the 2 ? Your videos and all the videos show people having to cover much larger areas than on the iPhone 4. And not just larger areas, more of them too.

2 areas that require much larger skin contact is better than 1 that is a millimeter wide. That means you have much less chance of covering it all and creating a problem.

That's just logical. You can't paint 2 bigger walls with the same amount of paint used on 1 smaller one and hope to hide all the white primer.

That's your spin.

No one blamed anyone, nor thumbed noses at anyone here.

Had CR tested..

Blah blah blah again with CR. I'm talking about RIM, Nokia and HTC. They just told Apple in 3 different PR releases to keep their ball in their yard. That's pretty much thumbing your nose.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

So does it require 2 or any of the 2 ? Your videos and all the videos show people having to cover much larger areas than on the iPhone 4. And not just larger areas, more of them too.

2 areas that require much larger skin contact is better than 1 that is a millimeter wide. That means you have much less chance of covering it all and creating a problem.

That's just logical. You can't paint 2 bigger walls with the same amount of paint used on 1 smaller one and hope to hide all the white primer.



Blah blah blah again with CR. I'm talking about RIM, Nokia and HTC. They just told Apple in 3 different PR releases to keep their ball in their yard. That's pretty much thumbing your nose.

I think he still does not understand the term Single Point of Failure.

To make the Bold fail it required 2 points to be touch at the same time and a larger area.

That is a lot better than the iPhone and means it is less likely to happen.

DMann please look up the term Single point of Failure. The bold you should required multiple points to fail before it completely failed. That is a good thing.

 

[DMann]

Your videos and all the videos show people having to cover much larger areas than on the iPhone 4.

This one doesn't.

Where are you getting "having to cover march larger areas?"

2 areas that require much larger skin contact is better than 1 that is a millimeter wide. That means you have much less chance of covering it all and creating a problem.

Where are you getting "require?"

just because he's not using his fingertip (difficult with the thumb) doesn't prove that larger areas are required.

Blah blah blah again with CR. I'm talking about RIM, Nokia and HTC. They just told Apple in 3 different PR releases to keep their ball in their yard. That's pretty much thumbing your nose.

Surely, they weren't happy about it, but they've got nothing to be concerned with, as they're apparently held to a different standard.

 

[DMann]

I think he still does not understand the term Single Point of Failure.

To make the Bold fail it required 2 points to be touch at the same time and a larger area.

This I understand - the point being, that it is irrelevant, since it would be impossible contact a phone with only a single point, while holding it.

That is a lot better than the iPhone and means it is less likely to happen.

Better?

Not so sure.

Contact on two places is inevitable. If those contact regions happen to be larger, contact anywhere within those regions can cause attenuation.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

This I understand - the point being, that it is irrelevant, since it would be impossible contact a phone with only a single point, while holding it.


Better?

Not so sure.

Contact on two places is inevitable. If those contact regions happen to be larger, contact anywhere within those regions can cause attenuation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KJSf8Par7I

Ouch iPhone 4 single point of failure.
Please find me another smart phone that will be that effected by a 1 finger.

Oh wait. That is an iPhone problem Only.

Add in more proof that there is no wide spread reports of those on other phones. People I read that are huge phone junkies and love the iPhone returned the iPhone 4 because of the problems it had and called what SJ stated complete BS. Apple is trying to say everyone has this problem but the iPhone suffering is beyond any one elses.