You're probably right. Keypad was the only thing that needed to get used to. Once used to it it's good.
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Anticipated new features for the 2016 MB?
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You're probably right. Keypad was the only thing that needed to get used to. Once used to it it's good.
My previous work place (at least in the finance department where I worked) this was the case, not a MBP on site but MBA's were common with some senior management getting 'upgraded' to either the new RMB or Surface Pro 3.
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Good points, I could see either happening as I can never quite tell with Apple; I never once thought the MBA would be Apple's cheapest laptop.
Question on docking stations I noticed the guys who had Mac's in old office very rarely used external devices and if they did it was usually something they bought themselves have you noticed a similar pattern?
From what I can see, those in my offices on PC's all have docking stations to company-supplied keyboards/screens and those with MacBook's all have a single-wire hub with cables going into that for the company-supplied keyboards/screens/pointing devices/etc. I think the MacBook owners all bought the hubs of their choosing though, there isn't a consistency there. Now that I think of it, perhaps that's why Apple was comfortable with the single-port USB-C on the RMB, perhaps their data told them that.
Must note that all the MacBook people in my office are in media creation roles, using Photoshop, InDesign, Autodesk, etc. all others in non-creative roles are using Windows devices for their spreadsheets and the like. My RMB was self-purchased, I use it for travel and the occasional in-office presentation or board meeting. My office work is done on a powerful HP notebook that sits under my desk in a docking station and never leaves it.
BJ
Thanks for the insight, I was wondering if it was a trait of Mac users.
If that is the reason for them going to a single USB port it makes sense, as in that office newer laptops (mainly HP) were using Targus docking station which works off one USB port (It is also compatible with Macs).
Initially it was only the media guys in my place using Mac's but finance started pushing for MBA and RMB which surprised me until I noticed most were iPhone users.
As the workforce gets younger, more and more employees will skew towards the Mac rather than Windows, it's only natural considering the proliferance of iOS since 2006, today's 25 year old junior executive was 15 when he got his first iPod or iPhone.
My wife gets a new notebook every 2 years and she bounces between a Dell and a Mac with regularity, it's usually out of boredom and wanting something new. To her and other non-power users everywhere, the OS doesn't make a difference. If anything, to her Google is the OS as that's what they use for mail, calendar, docs, chat, etc. and booting these things up and finding the Chrome icon on the desktop is the same on Windows and Mac. It becomes a choice of which form factor is the most exciting, lightest weight, etc.
BJ
Can you think of a single other time Apple has introduced a new product and not updated it within a year?
I can only think of AppleTV and the New MacPro. The former isn't a computer in the traditional sense, and the latter isn't technically a "new product." Every other time Apple has introduced a new product, that I have thought of and checked, it has been updated within a year.
Not saying you're wrong, we simply don't know. I'm saying it would be unprecedented. It would be a first for Apple.
You nailed it. The RMB isn't a computer in the traditional sense either, it's a very niche product for a niche audience and that's why its processor won't be updated within a year.
Look, Skylake may have its benefits and to a power user on a powerful notebook on an older physical platform like the Pro and the Air it legitimately may be demonstrably different and exciting and sell a lot more units. But for the casual user on a casual notebook with a cutting-edge physical platform like the RMB, processors aren't very important and the benefits of this particular processor won't make a tangible difference.
Like you, I don't know. But my instincts tell me the RMB is too new, by design it's not about processing horsepower, and Apple has bigger fish to fry with the Watch needing a revision, the Air and Pro needing reboots, TV not aligned with studios, the iPad in a funk, and the iPhone plateauing. Apple is a massive enterprise, they don't need to focus on a successful niche notebook only 6 months old. They have far bigger priorities.
BJ
without a shadow of a doubt, apple will update the RMB with skylake processors in March. Even if its just a sales tactic to rope in the people who have heretofore held off.
I'm considering getting one, i held off the first gen, i currently have a 2011 Macbook Pro which has been a great laptop but i feel it's now time to update and considering i have a iPad Pro i'm not sure buying another Macbook Pro is needed. But it does depend on how big of an update Apple give the Macbook Pro, if they redesign and make it a big jump then i may consider it over the retina Macbook.
>We don't need a faster processor
Talk for yourself. I very much look forward to new processor.
BJ
Talk for yourself. I very much look forward to new processor.
BJ
You simply don't understand the role of the RMB. If you did, you'd understand why Skylake doesn't make a difference to the typical consumer in an Apple store looking to get a new notebook. "Sales tactic", LOL.
BJ
Tbh man, I think you are constantly trying to make yourself feel better about buying the 1st Gen.
I agree that the Skylake processor might not bring massive performance gains but it will shift units.
One of the biggest points made against the rMB in mainstream reviews was that it lacked processing grunt (rightly or wrongly) particularly compared to a similarly priced MBP. Lots of people are holding out for the extra grunt, graphically or otherwise of the Skylake cpu so of course upgrading it is going to shift more units.
Over the last number of years, Apple has usually upgrade the CPU in line with what Intel has to offer. People will buy the latest and greatest, Apple know this, even if the improvements are merely incremental. So yes, it's a common Sales Tactic.
Another USB-C even if it means to get rid of the headphone jack and whatever performances that skylake brings.
Despite our disagreements, I think it's clear you're a smart guy, and I was hoping for a smart answer. Instead you stupidly twisted one thing I said while avoiding the actual question - why would Apple not update the rMB within a year when they have done so for every other new laptop and desktop product except for the nMP?
The AppleTV (1st gen) isn't a computer in the tradition sense because it wasn't made to be one, rather it's a streaming box. Sure it had a Pentium M processor and could run any x86 OS, it wasn't really for that. The rMB is a computer in every sense, tradition and new. Plus being niche isn't special where nearly every apple product, especially at first launch, is a niche product for a niche audience. If anything, the rMB is less niche than many other Apple products throughout time that did receive swift updates.
You keep saying the rMB will not be updated because it works perfectly for its niche, but that has never been a reason not to update something for Apple. However, it would objectively be unprecedented for Apple to launch a new portable computer like this and not update it within a year. Apple has literally never done that, at least not since the Sculley days. Notwithstanding the nMP, which can be differentiated in several ways, Apple hasn't done that with any computer.
Also, it's not 6 months old. While it was released 11 months ago, you have advocated counting it only starting when it was widely available 8 months ago. For perspective, the equally niche original MBA was updated 10 months after release, and something like 6 months after it was widely available.
Apologies OMR, I enjoy our debates and did not mean to avoid anything. To answer your question: I don't think the RMB is a 'typical' computer, I think it's several years ahead of its time, and the device is predicated on features and functionality for which Skylake does not make any noticeable difference. If a Skylake RMB is 20% faster than a current RMB, what does that mean to the average user, one who already eschews the types of processors found in the Pro? What is 20% of 200 milliseconds? That's like 1/1000th of a sneeze. It's just words on a page, it's just numbers that mean nothing to the average buyer in a retail store.
There are two things going on:
1. See answer above.
2. Apple has bigger fish to fry and appear to be updating the Air and Pro this year.
I understand past history. You have explained it well and I get it. But, again, I don't think the RMB needs updating, at least not for a processor. Hey, if Alcoa releases a revolutionary new aluminum that's 50% lighter and 50% stronger, damn, let's do it. If Toshiba invents a battery that's 30% lighter and gives the same life, holy cow, gotta have that. HD camera, yes. Lightning audio, yes. Wireless charging, yes. Anything that improves thickness and weight, definitely can't sit on those. Processor? Zzzz.
Hold your assumptions; money means nothing to me, having the latest/greatest tech is what it's all about, I'll throw my G1 RMB onto Craigslist for $500 and buy the newest one if it's given a marked improvement in portability. Processing power doesn't mean anything to the typical RMB buyer. Apple offers two other notebooks with gobs of power and no compromises to keyboards and ports. The RMB is for a subset of consumers like students on vast campuses, commuters on rails, and executives flying around the world to whom form factor means far more than horsepower.
BJ
I agree the CPU improvement won't have much impact to the average user when it comes to speed, but it will have some actual improvement when it comes to battery life due to the increased power efficiency. That is something I think users do actually want, and on other Skylake Core-M machines it seems the battery improvement is more than nominal. That alone is a very good reason to update.
Moreover, the deminimis nature of a CPU update has very rarely held Apple back before. The move from Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge, for example, had almost no noticeable speed improvements. However, there was a noticeable power-efficiency improvement that extended battery life.
Basically, the reason you gave hasn't caused Apple to break from protocol before, and there is nothing different today.
I actually predict Apple won't be updating the Air this year, or if they are, this will be final update. The Air has outlived its usefulness in the Macbook lineup, and today seems both superfluous and out of place at the same time. I think the Air will be placed into the proverbial "death's waiting room" where it is in the store only for the purpose of having a lower-cost option available; where the Mid-2010 Macbook lived for 2 years and where the Mid-2012 13" Macbook Pro has been living for over 3 years.
update other than cpu i'd be surprised, but maybe the removal of the MBA from the range...
agreed. An extra port or any design changes would not make sense. They obviously knew they were targeting people who need a light, portable laptop and rely on wireless services: printers, photos, etc.
Apple updates their iPads every year, and although nobody needs the processor improvement, it's there. And this is the iPad - the device that is mainly used for browsing, emailing, music playing, youtube and other light applications. It always get the same 10 hour battery.
A proper computer like the rMB will, of course, benefit from the faster processor, the whole system will become more fluent. There is no reason the general rMB user would not appreciate it. Some may not see it as enough reason to upgrade to the newer one. I am still using a 2010 iMac. I haven't a reason to upgrade to the newer one although the current crop of processors are like 3x faster.
A proper computer like the rMB will, of course, benefit from the faster processor, the whole system will become more fluent. There is no reason the general rMB user would not appreciate it. Some may not see it as enough reason to upgrade to the newer one. I am still using a 2010 iMac. I haven't a reason to upgrade to the newer one although the current crop of processors are like 3x faster.
Regarding Skylake's quoted "maximum of 30% better battery life" improvement, while a bump is usually important the RMB already has all-day battery life. So if I get 10 hours now will get maybe a boost to 13 but I never use 10 hours in a day and 13 isn't enough to last me two days, so what's the extra few hours mean? If I have insomnia in a hotel room I'm atop an outlet. If I'm out at 2AM, I'm not using a notebook. Skylake's battery bump is in no-man's-land on a notebook like the RMB which is already optimized for stellar battery life. It's like my iPad Air II. Battery life no longer matters, an extra percentage here or there isn't a difference maker.
This is an excerpt from Intel's press release on Skylake, talking about the boost compared to a 5 year old notebook and how it can now have 'all day battery life':
"There are over 500 million computers in use today that are four to five years old or older. They are slow to wake, their batteries don’t last long, and they can’t take advantage of all the new experiences available today. Built on the new Skylake microarchitecture on Intel’s leading 14nm manufacturing process technology, 6th Gen Intel Core processors deliver triple the battery life versus the average 5-year-old computer. They can also be half as thin and half the weight, have faster wake up time, and battery life that lasts virtually all day."
Take a 5 year old Air, drop in Skylake, boom, huge improvement. Thinner, lighter, all day battery life.
Take a 5 month old RMB, drop in Skylake, thud, no difference. It's already thinner and lighter, already has all day battery life.
We use our notebooks from 9 to 5, we charge our notebooks over night, "all day" battery life is all that's needed until someone comes out with "two day" battery life or "one week" battery life which is a groundbreaker.
So my friend, it's lose-lose on Skylake and that's why she ain't happening for the RMB, at least not this year. Processing speed and all-day battery life, it simply doesn't make a difference on this particular notebook.
BJ
from my experience, with my rMB, the quoted 9 hours is around 7.5 hours. My work days last 10 hours. I would appreciate a quoted 12 hours and really get 10.
First, 10 hours is pretty rare. You must use the computer very lightly. Plenty of common use cases result is less battery life, a cursory search of this forum shows few get over 7hrs. Second, I have certainly had plenty of business days longer than 9-5 and I know I'm not alone. I don't want to dive into specific examples, but I think very few people wouldn't want a 12+hr battery. Indeed, those last few hours are usually the most important.
You read this forum, I'm sure you've seen the reviews on all the retailers. People seem to have three major issues with the rMB - lack of ports, expensive price, and lackluster battery life. The first and second are deliberate choices Apple made, design or marketing or otherwise. Only the third is a real issue that Apple obviously would improve if they could, in that it wasn't a deliberate choice but rather a technological limitation they have to live with to stay in spec.
Fair enough, but it didn't seem to stop you from buying the RMB to begin with and this bump in battery life likely isn't going to get you to trade yours in for an upgrade. So, in real-world terms, it's a nice thing but not necessary.
I run Windows 10 exclusively and battery life isn't an issue for me at all. Windows 10 is very configurable with power profiles and backlight settings, I can stretch things nicely without any compromises.
While I've seen people bash the RMB for it's cavalier attitude on legacy ports, I haven't heard many complaints about battery life.
Getting back a bit to the reason the RMB exists, it's not for someone depending on a running notebook 12 hours a day, someone who has his headphones on and assembling lines of code all day long. The Pro and the Air handle that. The RMB is someone's second computer for travel or a students computer for note taking, it's not 'on' all day. It's on during the flight, it's on at class, but the rest of the time it's at a desk in a hotel room, office, library, dorm room, and there are outlets there. Battery life on a notebook is really overrated. This isn't an iPhone.
BJ
-9,7" iPad pro (March 2016)
-2nd gen Macbook with Skylake (Spring 2016)
The two next steps to say goodbye to "Air" name...(not from its shops until next year. They're going to be the cheapest options).
I actually think that is one of several users the rMB is directed to specifically. Someone whose work requires a keyboard and a screen that displays small text well, but wants the lightest and smallest machine possible. Essentially a low-power terminal that allows them to SSH into a development server and write code from anywhere in the world, or remote into a system and change or manage configurations from anywhere in the world. The rMB seems better suited for this than most other laptops today. Indeed I know a few professionals (coders, system administrators, etc.) that work just like this, and they are eyeing the rMB.
Getting back to the original discussion, I think we are conflating two different hurdles. There is one hurdle which asks: should I the user upgrade to this new updated model? There is a second hurdle which asks: should I the manufacturer release and sell this new updated model? The former hurdle is much higher than the latter hurdle. Frankly, this thread isn't about whether people who bought the 2015 would want to upgrade anyway. This thread is about whether Apple will release an updated version in 2016, a totally different inquiry.
Of course, the Skylake isn't going to be appreciably faster to most people, and the battery life improvements might not matter to you. But neither of those are good reasons at all to a manufacturer.
How about these reasons that matter to a manufacturer: Skylake CPUs cost about as much as their Broadwell predecessors, and there is very minimal motherboard redesign required (sunk costs are low). Nearly all competitors have moved to Skylake, and are flaunting it's improvements that make the current rMB look bad in comparison; where thought leaders in the consumer electronics media have noticed this, and are recommending buyers away from the rMB (opportunity costs are high). In sum, the cost to update is low, but the cost of not updating is higher. In these terms, there is nearly no reason for Apple not to release a Skylake update.
Finally the argument that Apple has bigger fish to fry is irrelevant. They're a big company, they have the manpower to dedicate to it all. Especially when it comes to simple hardware updates such as this.