Anticipated new features for the 2016 MB?

[boltjames]

How about these reasons that matter to a manufacturer: Skylake CPUs cost about as much as their Broadwell predecessors, and there is very minimal motherboard redesign required (sunk costs are low). Nearly all competitors have moved to Skylake, and are flaunting it's improvements that make the current rMB look bad in comparison; where thought leaders in the consumer electronics media have noticed this, and are recommending buyers away from the rMB (opportunity costs are high). In sum, the cost to update is low, but the cost of not updating is higher. In these terms, there is nearly no reason for Apple not to release a Skylake update.

Finally the argument that Apple has bigger fish to fry is irrelevant. They're a big company, they have the manpower to dedicate to it all. Especially when it comes to simple hardware updates such as this.

The issue I have with this theory is that with the RMB barely in stock in all colors/sizes in all stores for 6 months it makes no sense for Apple to take the markdowns on existing inventory, liquidate existing inventory, and replace all the samples in all the stores all for the sake of an update that I think we both agree won't move the sales needle at all. Besides hardcore types like the handful in this subforum, who exactly waltzes in to an Apple store asking about processors and milliseconds of betterment? No one.

It's just too soon, that's all. And no matter the size of the company, each product has a P&L and the RMB hasn't even begun to pay for itself, all the R&D, all the inventory, it just isn't good business sense to transition so quickly on a machine that honestly doesn't need it yet from a performance standpoint or a sales standpoint.

Now, if Apple were to address all the negative press, that's a whole other can of worms, they'd be adding USB-A ports, they'd be adding an HD camera, they'd go back to a Chicklet keyboard, in other words they'd just discontinue the thing. We all know what drives these bad reviews, right? Money. Make a pro-RMB video on YouTube, no clicks. Slam the thing as an affront to God, ton's of clicks, thousands of ad dollars.

But we both know what's going to happen here- Apple is going to thin down the Pro and Air, they're going to put in retina displays and USB-C ports and plateaued batteries and all the rest and as a result make all these frustrated Pro and Air owners happy with something new and that will put an end to these silly complaints about the RMB. In the end, the whiners don't want an RMB. They want a thin Air with a retina display. When they get it, they'll stop the nonsense.

BJ

 

[LouisLoh]

You do realise that there have been various massive discounts on the rMB, don't you? If it were so niche and so future-proof in this niche market, why bother discounting it? Granted it's not Apple giving out these discounts, but to insist the rMB is not aimed at the masses at this new price point of $999 is just being stubborn.

EDIT: in fact, Apple did offer the Beats bundle with the rMB as well, together with the Air and Pro models.

 

[boltjames]

You do realise that there have been various massive discounts on the rMB, don't you? If it were so niche and so future-proof in this niche market, why bother discounting it? Granted it's not Apple giving out these discounts, but to insist the rMB is not aimed at the masses at this new price point of $999 is just being stubborn.

EDIT: in fact, Apple did offer the Beats bundle with the rMB as well, together with the Air and Pro models.

The discounts on the RMB are coming from large retailers like Best Buy who had a brutal Christmas season, bought too much inventory, and are desperate to unload it here in the lowest selling season of the year. Besides Apple products, you will find deep discounts on thousands of consumer electronics products, from TV's to video game consoles, it's not specific to Apple and its certainly not representative of some "problem" with the RMB itself.

Am I the only person who went to business school?

BJ

 

[oneMadRssn]

The issue I have with this theory is that with the RMB barely in stock in all colors/sizes in all stores for 6 months it makes no sense for Apple to take the markdowns on existing inventory, liquidate existing inventory, and replace all the samples in all the stores all for the sake of an update that I think we both agree won't move the sales needle at all. Besides hardcore types like the handful in this subforum, who exactly waltzes in to an Apple store asking about processors and milliseconds of betterment? No one.

Lots of people ask about battery life, and that isn't milliseconds. And it's been in easily available and in stock since mid last summer, more than 6 months.

It's just too soon, that's all. And no matter the size of the company, each product has a P&L and the RMB hasn't even begun to pay for itself, all the R&D, all the inventory, it just isn't good business sense to transition so quickly on a machine that honestly doesn't need it yet from a performance standpoint or a sales standpoint.

It's not like they throw away all that if they update it. A skylake update would require very little redesign. None of that R&D would be wasted.

Now, if Apple were to address all the negative press, that's a whole other can of worms, they'd be adding USB-A ports, they'd be adding an HD camera, they'd go back to a Chicklet keyboard, in other words they'd just discontinue the thing. We all know what drives these bad reviews, right? Money. Make a pro-RMB video on YouTube, no clicks. Slam the thing as an affront to God, ton's of clicks, thousands of ad dollars.

Those negative reviews aren't the same. Some shmuck on yourtube isn't directly affecting sales. But the opinions of journalists often read by business types or IT types, the people who influence most purchasing decisions, those do matter. They have complained about ports, price, and battery life. The last of those is something Skylake addresses directly and inexpensively. Apple stands to loose more if they don't update it.

Love him or hate him, agree with him or disagree with him, it is objectively undeniable that Walt Mossberg's opinion matters, and so do those of others like him.

But we both know what's going to happen here- Apple is going to thin down the Pro and Air, they're going to put in retina displays and USB-C ports and plateaued batteries and all the rest and as a result make all these frustrated Pro and Air owners happy with something new and that will put an end to these silly complaints about the RMB. In the end, the whiners don't want an RMB. They want a thin Air with a retina display. When they get it, they'll stop the nonsense.

The rMB is the new Air.

 

[mattopotamus]

The discounts on the RMB are coming from large retailers like Best Buy who had a brutal Christmas season, bought too much inventory, and are desperate to unload it here in the lowest selling season of the year. Besides Apple products, you will find deep discounts on thousands of consumer electronics products, from TV's to video game consoles, it's not specific to Apple and its certainly not representative of some "problem" with the RMB itself.

Am I the only person who went to business school?

BJ

I understand what you are saying with availability being scarce (it was really only at apple stores). I got one at best buy the first week they were on sale. In fact, most bestbuys had them in stock well before apple did, months before. We have seen the same thing with certain iphone models. How long was the plus out of stock when it first came out? That did not stop them from releasing a 6s+. The macbook will get an update soon, very soon. History supports this.

 

[boltjames]

The rMB is the new Air.

Apple cannot drop the Air as it's their most popular notebook and more profitable than the RMB. The Air should go in two directions- upmarket with a better screen for IT departments and their workforces as a Windows alternative and downmarket with the current featureset a-la the iPhone 5C. The RMB isn't practical as a workstation computer, it's too dainty and eschews all backwards-compatibility to legacy peripherals.

I understand what you are saying with availability being scarce (it was really only at apple stores). I got one at best buy the first week they were on sale. In fact, most bestbuys had them in stock well before apple did, months before. We have seen the same thing with certain iphone models. How long was the plus out of stock when it first came out? That did not stop them from releasing a 6s+. The macbook will get an update soon, very soon. History supports this.

We continue to disagree on this. I recall a poster, months ago, pointing out that updating to Skylake isn't a simple job, it's not like other notebooks that had room under the hood for the processor and it's dependents, would need a lot of component redesign. It's March and we had dozens of posters just swearing that we'd see an RMB update by now. April is coming quickly.

BJ

 

[oneMadRssn]

Apple cannot drop the Air as it's their most popular notebook and more profitable than the RMB. The Air should go in two directions- upmarket with a better screen for IT departments and their workforces as a Windows alternative and downmarket with the current featureset a-la the iPhone 5C. The RMB isn't practical as a workstation computer, it's too dainty and eschews all backwards-compatibility to legacy peripherals.

I not saying Apple will drop the Air in March, no no, definitely not. I agree, they need it in the lineup for at least a few more years. However, it's clear the rMB is the successor to the Air.

Apple is known to slowly phase out a line of computers. Apple has a play for doing this, and they do it the same way every time. They keep the legacy model in the store at a low price point for a few years alongside the new models. They're doing this currently with the 2012 13" MBP but there is no dispute the rMBPs are the successors to the prior MBPs; they did it before with the white 2010 MB before that when there was no dispute the Air was the successor to the polycarbonate MB, they did it with that i3 iMac before that, and I can keep going.

I think the same thing will happen with the Air. Either this year or next year, they will freeze the specs but keep selling them in the store for a few years after that. Really, I think the 13" Air is most redundant so that might be gone sooner. I think they might keep only the 11" Air in the store for a few years after it is made clear that the rMB is the non-pro model.

As for your point that it's too dainty and not backwards-compatible enough - that is also iconic Apple. It didn't stop them from ditching the 3.5" floppy, the CD/DVD drive, or Ethernet ports way before most users were comfortable with doing so. It won't stop them from ditching USB-A and SD slots in a mainstream computer this time around either. The original MBA was also super dainty, the original iMac was dainty. Apple loves dainty, and Apple loves ditching old connectivity standards on mainstream computers before anyone else is ready. The rMB will be no exception.

 

[boltjames]

I think the same thing will happen with the Air. Either this year or next year, they will freeze the specs but keep selling them in the store for a few years after that. Really, I think the 13" Air is most redundant so that might be gone sooner. I think they might keep only the 11" Air in the store for a few years after it is made clear that the rMB is the non-pro model.

As for your point that it's too dainty and not backwards-compatible enough - that is also iconic Apple. It didn't stop them from ditching the 3.5" floppy, the CD/DVD drive, or Ethernet ports way before most users were comfortable with doing so. It won't stop them from ditching USB-A and SD slots in a mainstream computer this time around either. The original MBA was also super dainty, the original iMac was dainty. Apple loves dainty, and Apple loves ditching old connectivity standards on mainstream computers before anyone else is ready. The rMB will be no exception.

Agreed on the Air, eventually something like the RMB can replace it, but not right now.

Disagree on the transition, Apple was once a small company with a few investors and could be so cavalier as to remove drives and ports way ahead of the curve. But today they are a Goliath with thousands of investors and they need to be sensitive to disenfranchising their target audience. The Air is a nice tweener amongst the Pro and the RMB.

BJ

 

[LouisLoh]

The discounts on the RMB are coming from large retailers like Best Buy who had a brutal Christmas season, bought too much inventory, and are desperate to unload it here in the lowest selling season of the year. Besides Apple products, you will find deep discounts on thousands of consumer electronics products, from TV's to video game consoles, it's not specific to Apple and its certainly not representative of some "problem" with the RMB itself.

Am I the only person who went to business school?

BJ

Again, if the rMB is that niche of a product and that future-proof in said niche market, demand would be completely price-inelastic. If the rMB is not aimed at the same market the Air/Pro are targeted at, why offer the SAME Beats bundle? If potential buyers of the rMB and the Air/Pro exist in an absolute dichotomy, surely Apple wouldn't need to bundle Beats with the rMB just because they do with their other computers... since buyers of the rMB would NOT be swayed no matter how much incentive they're given to buy the Air/Pro.. but WHY is Apple doing so?? Surely their target markets MUST overlap.

Also, why offer Beats or discounts with a product that Apple is SO SURE not to upgrade in this year? Wait for the 'lowest selling season' of NEXT year, since Apple has ZERO intention of upgrading it anyway, meaning there's nothing to replace old stock with. Drop prices this time NEXT year and maximise profits, no???? Don't the vendors know that Apple is not updating the rMB this year? How stupid can they be?

I'm basing my arguments off YOURS that assert
1. rMB is creme de la creme niche
2. rMB is creme de la creme premium
3. rMB is definitely not going to get upgraded this year

 

[mattopotamus]

Again, if the rMB is that niche of a product and that future-proof in said niche market, demand would be completely price-inelastic. If the rMB is not aimed at the same market the Air/Pro are targeted at, why offer the SAME Beats bundle? If potential buyers of the rMB and the Air/Pro exist in an absolute dichotomy, surely Apple wouldn't need to bundle Beats with the rMB just because they do with their other computers... since buyers of the rMB would NOT be swayed no matter how much incentive they're given to buy the Air/Pro.. but WHY is Apple doing so?? Surely their target markets MUST overlap.

Also, why offer Beats or discounts with a product that Apple is SO SURE not to upgrade in this year? Wait for the 'lowest selling season' of NEXT year, since Apple has ZERO intention of upgrading it anyway, meaning there's nothing to replace old stock with. Drop prices this time NEXT year and maximise profits, no???? Don't the vendors know that Apple is not updating the rMB this year? How stupid can they be?

I'm basing my arguments off YOURS that assert
1. rMB is creme de la creme niche
2. rMB is creme de la creme premium
3. rMB is definitely not going to get upgraded this year

I am all for difference of opinions, but BJ is the only person that is in "la la land" when it comes to an updated rMB. I personally think it is because he does not want it to be updated, so if he says it enough it might not happen.

 

[IowaLynn]

From news page a year from now at least?

DisplayPort 1.4 to Use 'Lossless' Compression for Higher-Quality 8K Video Over USB-C

 

[Amazing Ox Space Monkey]

From news page a year from now at least?

DisplayPort 1.4 to Use 'Lossless' Compression for Higher-Quality 8K Video Over USB-C

notice that "loseless" is in double quotes. Actually, it will use 3:1 compress ratio "deemed to be virtually loseless". Maybe this will be somewhat useful if one watches videos but for precise work with colours "virtually loseless" will not cut it. I could be wrong but I also question the usefullness of 8k in a computer monitor. Heck 4k is not an established standard yet and we are already talking 8k.

However, bearing in mind that a 5k monitor costs as much as a 5k iMac I think that DisplayPort 1.4 feature will be an interesting option for those who can afford a high-end 15" rMBP. Not someing I would look for in e rMB. A "nice to have" for sure...

 

[Coldmode]

You simply don't understand the role of the RMB. If you did, you'd understand why Skylake doesn't make a difference to the typical consumer in an Apple store looking to get a new notebook. "Sales tactic", LOL.

BJ

The benefit of going to Skylake is the energy efficiency. Keeping the same weight and profile while increasing the battery life is like catnip for Apple.

 

[boltjames]

Again, if the rMB is that niche of a product and that future-proof in said niche market, demand would be completely price-inelastic. If the rMB is not aimed at the same market the Air/Pro are targeted at, why offer the SAME Beats bundle? If potential buyers of the rMB and the Air/Pro exist in an absolute dichotomy, surely Apple wouldn't need to bundle Beats with the rMB just because they do with their other computers... since buyers of the rMB would NOT be swayed no matter how much incentive they're given to buy the Air/Pro.. but WHY is Apple doing so?? Surely their target markets MUST overlap.

Also, why offer Beats or discounts with a product that Apple is SO SURE not to upgrade in this year? Wait for the 'lowest selling season' of NEXT year, since Apple has ZERO intention of upgrading it anyway, meaning there's nothing to replace old stock with. Drop prices this time NEXT year and maximise profits, no???? Don't the vendors know that Apple is not updating the rMB this year? How stupid can they be?

I'm basing my arguments off YOURS that assert
1. rMB is creme de la creme niche
2. rMB is creme de la creme premium
3. rMB is definitely not going to get upgraded this year

1. This was a Back To School promotion, designed to get kids clothes shopping in malls to get their parents to buy them a pricey $1,000 Mac instead of a $300 Windows machine.

2. It was also a way to promote the Beats brand in 500 storefront windows in 500 of the best retail locations in the world, necessary as the cost of that acquisition isn't justified with the fail of Apple Music and the flooded market of premium headphones.

3. If you owned a deli and put up a sign that says "free soda with the purchase of any sandwich" it going to be a lot more effective to drive traffic and generate ROI than a sign that says "free non-sugar-free soda with the purchase of any sandwich not made with ham, fish, turkey, bacon, or dressing of any kind including but not limited to mayonnaise and mustard".

Still appear to be the only person who went to business school, unfortunately.

BJ

 

[oneMadRssn]

Still appear to be the only person who went to business school, unfortunately.

I agree, but I wouldn't brag about it.

 

[LouisLoh]

1. This was a Back To School promotion, designed to get kids clothes shopping in malls to get their parents to buy them a pricey $1,000 Mac instead of a $300 Windows machine.

2. It was also a way to promote the Beats brand in 500 storefront windows in 500 of the best retail locations in the world, necessary as the cost of that acquisition isn't justified with the fail of Apple Music and the flooded market of premium headphones.

3. If you owned a deli and put up a sign that says "free soda with the purchase of any sandwich" it going to be a lot more effective to drive traffic and generate ROI than a sign that says "free non-sugar-free soda with the purchase of any sandwich not made with ham, fish, turkey, bacon, or dressing of any kind including but not limited to mayonnaise and mustard".

Still appear to be the only person who went to business school, unfortunately.

BJ

You have always been arguing that the rMB is targeted at the most premium of premium markets. Suddenly they are for back to schoolers too!! That's a 180.

Also, the rMB isn't just another sandwich is it? According to YOU, it's a caviar-truffle-wagyu sandwich that appeals only to the richest of rich. So, the richest of rich now cares about free soda? So which richest of rich person is going to change his or her mind to get this sandwich just because there's a bundled soda? And if other people are drawn to this sandwich just because it comes with a free soda now, does that mean it's not as inaccessible and exclusive as you have made it seem to be ever since you got it?

You can't have it both way - saying only a niche group of users will ever buy the rMB and for these people an upgrade is worthless so there won't be an upgrade AND then saying the rMB now being subject to the same sales strategies as the rest of the MacBooks is not an admission of its mass market appeal.

 

[Amazing Ox Space Monkey]

It's real fun seeing other members hooked up to arguing with James. He's a smart guy who very carefully chooses his arguments and very carefully chose whom to reply to, and how. Some people have this talent.

The fun of the game is that it is a game with no end. There goes the old www adage, "arguing on the internet is like running in a special olympics - even if in the end you win you still look [self-censored]. You are not exactly arguing, rather discussing in a very civilized manner, however, I observe that every topic concerning future features of the macbook ends up eventually with the same dialogue between James and the others. It's like reading the same book over and over.

The real thruth is that Apple may indeed skip SkyLake update for the rMB. Personally, I don't care. There are plenty of other choices, the 13" rMBP the obvious one. However, since the title of the topic is about "anticipated new features". I anticipate a 14" rMB with SkyLake. The 12" may stay the same and not be updated.

 

[Trey M]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Thunderbolt 3 yet. To me, that would be the biggest upgrade on a 2016 rMB vs. a 2015.

One cable. Daisy chained with other Thunderbolt 3/USB-C and USB devices, HDMI for monitors, optical for audio, the list goes on. When I think about buying a laptop, I usually try to imagine owning it for 5 years minimum. Without TB3, I don't think the rMB of today would suffice for myself in 5 years. With Thunderbolt 3, though, it's future proofing with the latest I/O technology that likely won't evolve dramatically within 5 years. I think TB3/USB-C combo port is totally the future, for all computers and personal devices not just Macs.

I'm also hoping for another port (whether it's USB-C or TB3 Combo port), but that's not a deal breaker for me. The inclusion of TB3 would make this device extremely tempting. Couple that with the latest Intel chips and possibly increased battery life...you have a winner here.

 

[happyslayer]

I havent thought it needed any updating. I've never once used the cam, and i think once tested the hdmi with the apple adapter and once used usb to load office from a portable dvd/cd. I've used it everyday for the number of months ive had it, mainly for email, browsing web, streaming movies. Actually, i'm getting bored with it. Its lost its lustre for me. I"m thinking about the hp spectre 360. I like the build (all alum) and the yoga aspect.

Don't do it. Especially if you like the MacBook's trackpad. I have used both the Spectre 360 and the latest Yoga 900. They are cool looking and seem well made. But! The trackpads are both pretty terrible--jumpy and the scrolling sucks and on the 900 I often had issues getting to recognize some clicks/taps. Granted I was only setting them up for customers and didn't have more than a couple days with them. I will say that if you very much want a touchscreen, both of them have good touchscreen. However, I HATE fingerprints on my screen so I am not much of a touchscreen user.

 

[dogslobber]

Are there any expected/anticipated new features for the 2016 MB? I'm guessing updated processor, graphics card...what else?

Thanks.

The rev 2 is gonna have at least 2x USB-C ports, possibly a 16gb memory option too.
[doublepost=1457662460][/doublepost]

Quick question, if they updated the MBA with a full glass (minimal borders) hi res screen, but everything is similar with upgraded processors, would you go for the MB or go back to the MBA? Let's assume the base MBA prices will be $300-$400 less than the base MB.

The rMB is about price resetting that area of the market. The MBA's days look numbered in terms of active updates. We might have reached a mature product that will age like the DVD based 2012 MBP Apple still sells. It's an efficient way to cover the market segments.

 

[Trey M]

The rev 2 is gonna have at least 2x USB-C ports, possibly a 16gb memory option too.
[doublepost=1457662460][/doublepost]

The rMB is about price resetting that area of the market. The MBA's days look numbered in terms of active updates. We might have reached a mature product that will age like the DVD based 2012 MBP Apple still sells. It's an efficient way to cover the market segments.

In my personal opinion I don't think we'll see 2x USB-C ports. It would sort of be a slap in the face to buyers of the first generation and I think Apple is intentionally only including one port to make a statement, more than anything. I hope that I'm wrong because I would love another USB-C port in the next gen, but I don't think it'll happen.

Aside from that, I strongly agree I think the MBA may now be a mature product. The battery life and everything in the latest generation are really phenomenal. It seems like a product that has the least to gain from a Skylake update compared to other Macs in the line. It would be a logical time to end the MBA's internal upgrade cycle and shift more focus and resources to cutting costs lower for the rest of the Macbook line.

As for 16GB of RAM, I certainly don't see why we wouldn't expect that. As focus shifts away from the Air, I think there's going to be more demand for this in the next-gem Macbook and I think Apple is likely to include the option in the next release. I would LOVE to see a 2 USB-C/TB3 ports, 16GB RAM, and improved battery life. I doubt we will see all of these things, but that would be the dream update for me.

 

[8692574]

We don't need a faster processor, we don't want more ports. We want features that directly correspond to the reason we bought the notebook to begin with- form factor.
BJ

A better CPU /GP/camera and or a new port would not make it heavier or larger so there's nothing to loose in updating!!!! Or are you suggesting that the RMB is perfect the way it is and shall never be updated and will be the best forever?

Seems to me someone is getting jealous there will be people with a laptop more perfect than his.

Regarding Skylake's quoted "maximum of 30% better battery life" improvement, while a bump is usually important the RMB already has all-day battery life. So if I get 10 hours now will get maybe a boost to 13 but I never use 10 hours in a day and 13 isn't enough to last me two days, so what's the extra few hours mean?

Short sighted i see, having more battery life means being able to do things "faster" and for more time, even if you would not buy the RMB as a workhorse you still want it to perform to be able to use the display at maximum brightness and may be even using the lights in your keyboard.

Doing real work for 10 hours is "impossible" but if i could push the cpu a little bit more those 3 hours will make my computer last all day with no compromise.

The RMBP has 10 hours battery life, try use that for 10 hours other than web surfing and with 50% brighness.... the same goes for the RMB all day ....with compromises!!

 

[Jayderek]

A better CPU /GP/camera and or a new port would not make it heavier or larger so there's nothing to loose in updating!!!! Or are you suggesting that the RMB is perfect the way it is and shall never be updated and will be the best forever?

Seems to me someone is getting jealous there will be people with a laptop more perfect than his.


Short sighted i see, having more battery life means being able to do things "faster" and for more time, even if you would not buy the RMB as a workhorse you still want it to perform to be able to use the display at maximum brightness and may be even using the lights in your keyboard.

Doing real work for 10 hours is "impossible" but if i could push the cpu a little bit more those 3 hours will make my computer last all day with no compromise.

The RMBP has 10 hours battery life, try use that for 10 hours other than web surfing and with 50% brighness.... the same goes for the RMB all day ....with compromises!!

for the MacBook to get another port, the headphone jack on the right would have to go away. This won't go away on devices until AFTER the September iPhone 7 announcement. A big deal will have to be made of audio coming from the lightning port instead of the headphone jack we're all used to. It's not worth doing this song and dance until the iPhone event.

 

[8692574]

for the MacBook to get another port, the headphone jack on the right would have to go away.

You mean they can't t put it next to it?' funny if you photoshop a heaphone jack , it fits perfectly side by side with the port...

EDIT:

I am sure Apple can manage it

 

[Jayderek]

I am sure Apple can manage it

sure - but you're cutting into battery space. Look, if people want more ports...there are plenty of options out there. If you really need more, this MacBook isn't for you.