Anyone else abandoning ship?

[cyberone]

Do the new Windows laptops (thinking of Lenovo X1, S940...) likely last longer than older gens?

A big plus of Mac hardware is its longevity... Thinking about switching back to Windows, with one main reason being Apple's pricing policy. But then again, if the hardware lasts that much longer...

 

[leman]

A big plus of Mac hardware is its longevity...

This is a myth, plain and simple. Macs don't last any longer than any other computers. Expensive computers usually last longer than cheap computers. The only reason why Macs have this "longevity" perception is because Apple doesn't make any cheap computers. Among the premium market, all laptops have comparable failure rates and life expectation.

 

[netdudeuk]

According to 'it just works' Apple, it's too risky to abandon ship at the moment

 

[maflynn]

A big plus of Mac hardware is its longevity

definitely and I think my issues stem from the fact that may not be the case anymore. Starting in 2016 with the butterfly keyboard, we have a laptop that doesn't seem to be able to handle the pounding of every usage. I know many people with the 2016 laptop are chugging along fine without a problem, but to me its like playing the lottery.

 

[rayriceroni00]

It was my option. Buy the top end $2600 model new or accept trade in credit of $555 if I give them my 2013 model. I chose the latter. They mail you a box like 3 days later, so you have a few days overlap to ensure new one has all data transferred. It took me like 45min to have the new one up and aligned with the old one. Then I just wiped the old one. I love iCloud and Time Machine.

Also I'm not a fan of debt, but I do like the 18 months 0% Barclay offer. I put the remainder on there.

@FlyingTexan
[doublepost=1547728143][/doublepost]

This is a myth, plain and simple. Macs don't last any longer than any other computers. Expensive computers usually last longer than cheap computers. The only reason why Macs have this "longevity" perception is because Apple doesn't make any cheap computers. Among the premium market, all laptops have comparable failure rates and life expectation.

I disagree. It's rare that people have even top end PC laptops last longer than 5 years. They are generally made with cheaper materials. I still haven't found a laptop that has a screen or trackpad that compares to Apple.

All that aside, Apple has an advantage because their laptops are controlled and designed to run best with Apple software. Windows goes on countless combinations of hardware, manufacturers, etc. When you literally design your products to run the operating systems you put out, you have an advantage over the competition.

My 2012 self would slap me for these comments. I was a total Apple hater back then.
[doublepost=1547728182][/doublepost]

definitely and I think my issues stem from the fact that may not be the case anymore. Starting in 2016 with the butterfly keyboard, we have a laptop that doesn't seem to be able to handle the pounding of every usage. I know many people with the 2016 laptop are chugging along fine without a problem, but to me its like playing the lottery.

Did they revise that keyboard again? Doesn't my 2018 model have a different version still?

 

[maflynn]

Did they revise that keyboard again? Doesn't my 2018 model have a different version still?

The 2018 model is the 3rd generation, the biggest change is that Apple added a silicon hood (or covering) to help keep debris from interfering with the delicate plastic parts.

 

[rayriceroni00]

The 2018 model is the 3rd generation, the biggest change is that Apple added a silicon hood (or covering) to help keep debris from interfering with the delicate plastic parts.

Thanks. Interesting. At least the older keyboards we could pop the keys and replace the mechanism, plunger, and key. I guess this new keyboard we have no chance.

 

[Queen6]

LOL! At last somebody else can corroborate what I have written here before!

I’ve finally decided I’ll be selling my SB2. Pure exercise in extreme frustration. Worst laptop I have bought apart from a netbook I purchased in late 2000s for 400AUD. At least that was 400AUD only; this SB cost me 3000AUD!

A few friendly folk suggested I buy a T5 Samsung external drive on another thread here on MR in order to alleviate the extraordinarily slow speeds on the machine (alternative hardware thread - Surface devices thread). However, it has meant that my SB2 has become what the MBP is maligned for - dongle hell.

I couldn’t even watch Bladerunner which I bought from MS’s own store the other night without major slowdowns! A petty example, to be sure, but experience breaking nevertheless.

Likely your SB2 has bigger issues somewhere down the line, as it should play such files with ease.

Q-6
[doublepost=1547734579][/doublepost]

This is a myth, plain and simple. Macs don't last any longer than any other computers. Expensive computers usually last longer than cheap computers. The only reason why Macs have this "longevity" perception is because Apple doesn't make any cheap computers. Among the premium market, all laptops have comparable failure rates and life expectation.

Absolutely, you get what you pay for, regardless of the OS...

Q-6
[doublepost=1547735156][/doublepost]

It was my option. Buy the top end $2600 model new or accept trade in credit of $555 if I give them my 2013 model. I chose the latter. They mail you a box like 3 days later, so you have a few days overlap to ensure new one has all data transferred. It took me like 45min to have the new one up and aligned with the old one. Then I just wiped the old one. I love iCloud and Time Machine.

Also I'm not a fan of debt, but I do like the 18 months 0% Barclay offer. I put the remainder on there.

@FlyingTexan
[doublepost=1547728143][/doublepost]

I disagree. It's rare that people have even top end PC laptops last longer than 5 years. They are generally made with cheaper materials. I still haven't found a laptop that has a screen or trackpad that compares to Apple.

All that aside, Apple has an advantage because their laptops are controlled and designed to run best with Apple software. Windows goes on countless combinations of hardware, manufacturers, etc. When you literally design your products to run the operating systems you put out, you have an advantage over the competition.

My 2012 self would slap me for these comments. I was a total Apple hater back then.
[doublepost=1547728182][/doublepost]

Did they revise that keyboard again? Doesn't my 2018 model have a different version still?

I've both Mac's and PC's that are well over 5 years old and they still run, some 10. Oldest last I tried was a Hewlett-Packard notebook from 2001 it still booted up a couple of years ago, I found it lying in a plastic bag in an outhouse at the farm

In my experience decent hardware runs irrespective of the OS, and cheap hardware will always be short-lived as it will likely use the cheapest components, as most electronic components are graded and priced accordingly.

Q-6

 

[agaskew]

Regarding longevity of MBPs, I think its often just the user abusing it. I recently passed on my old mint 15" 2014 MBP to a colleague (last and best MBP I had) because he trashed his 13" 2014 model. When I say trashed, I mean wobbly hinges, dead pixels, scratches, full of dust/hairs/crap so overheating, the T key missing some of the top layer, wobbly USB ports and so on. The only way to compare would be to subject different machines to the same usage, and compare.

Most new laptops with 2018/2019 CPUs should support 64Gb RAM (2x32Gb) as long as they have the RAM slots. The X1 Extreme can be bought with 64Gb from Lenovo, but others should work with 64Gb too, providing you can actually find the RAM to buy. So if searching around, don't limit the choice to Thinkpads. I tried to buy a Thinkpad T480 but the Lenovo sales and buying process, plus the massive shipping lead time, was a nightmare, as was the order cancellation.

Interesting to also note that no one has offered touch screen capability as a reason to switch. I currently have an i9/32Gb XPS with 4k touchscreen, and although the display is lovely, I never jab a finger at it. Passing Fad?

 

[A_ardvark]

I feel burned by the release of Vega so quickly after the 2018 models came out in the summer. Keyboard issues notwithstanding, they should not have released a new model without Vega. I get that it's a business, but as a consumer I feel pretty annoyed.

 

[Eason85]

Pretty sure the Lenovo X1 Extreme matches or beats the MacBook Pro in performance, portability, ergonomy, ports and most of all a great keyboard.

I have the P1 (workstation variant of the X1E) and adore it. The only thing I could wish for was a hot-swappable battery like on my T470.
[doublepost=1547745104][/doublepost]Guys, I know the Razers (especially the white one) look wonderful, but as a semi-professional reviewer and consumer advocate I strongly suggest you not buy from that company unless they have a change in management. They are unethical by practice from the top down, and this leads to a terribly high failure rate for their hardware with an even worse track record of supporting their machines.

I repeat, do not buy a Razer product unless they announce radical changes to their business strategy.

 

[Blaze4G]

I have the P1 (workstation variant of the X1E) and adore it. The only thing I could wish for was a hot-swappable battery like on my T470.
[doublepost=1547745104][/doublepost]Guys, I know the Razers (especially the white one) look wonderful, but as a semi-professional reviewer and consumer advocate I strongly suggest you not buy from that company unless they have a change in management. They are unethical by practice from the top down, and this leads to a terribly high failure rate for their hardware with an even worse track record of supporting their machines.

I repeat, do not buy a Razer product unless they announce radical changes to their business strategy.

Hot swappable batteries are definitely a nice convenience. At least it's pretty easy to swap out the internal battery.

Had no idea Razer was that bad. I was considering them once but after researching I heard a lot of bad things. I was quite surprised.

 

[Eason85]

Hot swappable batteries are definitely a nice convenience. At least it's pretty easy to swap out the internal battery.

Had no idea Razer was that bad. I was considering them once but after researching I heard a lot of bad things. I was quite surprised.

They are a penny stock for a reason https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/1337?countrycode=HK

And then they are manipulating young and careless kids into running crypto-mining software that Razer gets the profit from while the kids' parents foot the electricity bill. Absolutely disgusting.

 

[maflynn]

uggest you not buy from that company unless they have a change in management. They are unethical by practice from the top down, and this leads to a terribly high failure rate for their hardware with an even worse track record of supporting their machine

Can you provide details/sources for this? I had a Razer and it was top quality, and dealing with support was fine. If you have information to back up that assessment, that would be great. I've only heard positive things from them in 2018.

 

[Cashmonee]

Can you provide details/sources for this? I had a Razer and it was top quality, and dealing with support was fine. If you have information to back up that assessment, that would be great. I've only heard positive things from them in 2018.

If you research the brand, you will see that there are major reliability concerns, especially with their peripherals. They are not reliable products. I believe they have also had some serious reliability issues with their laptops as well. In general, as cool as their stuff looks, I would be hesitant to invest in one of their machines. Their reputation is pretty poor.

 

[maflynn]

If you research the brand, you will see that there are major reliability concerns, especially with their peripherals. They are not reliable products. I believe they have also had some serious reliability issues with their laptops as well. In general, as cool as their stuff looks, I would be hesitant to invest in one of their machines. Their reputation is pretty poor.

I have and its on my short list of what to buy. The 15" model has been getting glowing reviews, Razer updated its customer support last year and dealing with them has improved dramatically. I owned a razer last year but I returned it in the hopes that Apple fixed the keyboard.

I'm not closed minded and defending Razer blindly, which is why I requested @Eason85 provide details to back up his assessment. Prior 2018, Razer's customer support was spotty (at best), and there were way too many faulty machines but starting with the 2018 15" Things seemed to have turned around

 

[LeeW]

If you research the brand

Yeah, I considered Razer for a laptop last year, after I researched the reviews and general feedback I backed off right away, it is not pretty. Of course, some are happy, there will always be happy people at every brand.

A good example is when LinusTechTips bought one for each of his staff. See attached. Ok, that was from last year but I don't believe it has changed so much.

Edit - Had a quick look at the customer service feedback again in the UK, still as bad over the last few months, all the same issues as before.

 

[EdwardC]

If you research the brand, you will see that there are major reliability concerns, especially with their peripherals. They are not reliable products. I believe they have also had some serious reliability issues with their laptops as well. In general, as cool as their stuff looks, I would be hesitant to invest in one of their machines. Their reputation is pretty poor.

My son uses a Razor gaming keyboard, headset and mouse that are all at least three years old and they have been spectacular. Maybe he is just lucky but 3 for 3 is a pretty decent in my book.

 

[lnikj]

So, the £4k lemon is boxed up and ready to go back tomorrow, and I'm now about to drop £1300 on a custom built Audio workstation laptop from Scan Computers in the UK. i7- 8750, clocking a little lower than the i9, Radeon 1050Ti, clocking a little higher than the Vega 20, 17" rather than 15" (which I prefer), and a 500Gb SSD and 2TB HDD inside for all my samples.

Yes, it won't be as pretty; yes, it's a kg heavier; yes, it may not last last as long; and yes, I will have to use Windows for the first time in 17 years. But hopefully it will actually work and I actually got to talk on the phone with the guy who will be putting it together for me.

 

[richinaus]

I have and its on my short list of what to buy. The 15" model has been getting glowing reviews, Razer updated its customer support last year and dealing with them has improved dramatically. I owned a razer last year but I returned it in the hopes that Apple fixed the keyboard.

I'm not closed minded and defending Razer blindly, which is why I requested @Eason85 provide details to back up his assessment. Prior 2018, Razer's customer support was spotty (at best), and there were way too many faulty machines but starting with the 2018 15" Things seemed to have turned around

This is the impression I got too.

However I will say this [have said it before] - I have never received any better service from any company than Apple in regards to any issue I have had over the last 20 years with their hardware [not many at all and when there has been it has been superbly dealt with]. It does make me nervous moving to another brand [especially for work purposes], and really feel I can only trust the bigger players [HP / Lenovo / MS / Dell] to stand by their products. This is a really big deal to me and which brand I go for.

 

[Ploki]

So, the £4k lemon is boxed up and ready to go back tomorrow, and I'm now about to drop £1300 on a custom built Audio workstation laptop from Scan Computers in the UK. i7- 8750, clocking a little lower than the i9, Radeon 1050Ti, clocking a little higher than the Vega 20, 17" rather than 15" (which I prefer), and a 500Gb SSD and 2TB HDD inside for all my samples.

Yes, it won't be as pretty; yes, it's a kg heavier; yes, it may not last last as long; and yes, I will have to use Windows for the first time in 17 years. But hopefully it will actually work and I actually got to talk on the phone with the guy who will be putting it together for me.

HDD?

I bought a Thunderbolt3 NVMe drive (1TB) to go with my new mini+13" combo and I'm never loading samples from HDD ever in my life.

 

[lnikj]

HDD?

I bought a Thunderbolt3 NVMe drive (1TB) to go with my new mini+13" combo and I'm never loading samples from HDD ever in my life.

My ailing 2011 17" has a 500Gb SSD and a 1TB HDD in a drive doubler and I've been perfectly happy with the drive arrangement for my uses.

 

[Ploki]

My ailing 2011 17" has a 500Gb SSD and a 1TB HDD in a drive doubler and I've been perfectly happy with the drive arrangement for my uses.

So you're upgrading solely because of two CPU cores?

 

[jerryk]

Thanks. Interesting. At least the older keyboards we could pop the keys and replace the mechanism, plunger, and key. I guess this new keyboard we have no chance.

How old are we talking about?

I don't think you could remove the plunger and switch mechanism on the retina MBPs without some deep surgery. They started riveting and gluing the keyboard, trackpad, upper case, and battery together with the retinas. At least they replace the whole top assembly for $199.

However, you could pop the keys off retinas as long as you were careful especially with the space bar and darn wire clip.

 

[lnikj]

So you're upgrading solely because of two CPU cores?

I'm reluctantly upgrading because all of the plastic on the back of the hinge is gone, the keyboard's keys discuss amongst themselves which days they are going to work, because despite cleaning it out it idles at 70 degrees and has thermal shutdowns whenever I ask it to do some serious audio work, and because before the thermal problems it was already not up to running VCV Rack. The fact that it has two extra cores is immaterial to me really.

It is on its fourth logic board (the graphics chip issue).

It will be going under the stairs as a Plex server to replace an even more elderly Core 2 duo which finally expired a few months ago, though I am not optimistic that it won't have shutdowns in that role too.