Anyone else abandoning ship?

[LeeW]

I can't to this day figure out why I'd want my laptop to be touch screen.

I agree that is something I am glad Apple has resisted. Seen someone on the plane last week with what looked like a 15" device folded over as he watched a film, all I could think was "you cock".

 

[rayriceroni00]

I agree that is something I am glad Apple has resisted. Seen someone on the plane last week with what looked like a 15" device folded over as he watched a film, all I could think was "you cock".

I recently turned my one good friend on to MacBooks. We've both been PC lovers since the early 90s. He loves them but always complains it doesn't have a touch screen. I watch him demonstrate how he uses touchscreen on whatever his current Windows laptop is. I really just can't see how it's faster or more efficient.

I feel we need a flow chart. Like, are you working at a desk? Yes -> use a keyboard. No -> can you get to a desk or table? bla bla there's your touch screen. If you can't easily use a KB/mouse, then there's your touch screen. 🙂

 

[LeeW]

The new iPad, typing a document and need to make a correction quickly? No, you cannot use your finger to position between the two letters you want to change, oh use the pencil, umm no.

Just give me ****ng mouse support...

 

[OdT22]

Touchscreens are pretty handy for marking up screenshots. I use it (w Surface Pen) quite a bit. And the occasional signature. Nothing else though.

 

[jerryk]

Touchscreens are pretty handy for marking up screenshots. I use it (w Surface Pen) quite a bit. And the occasional signature. Nothing else though.

I like them for taking notes with the pen. I think better with pictures of workflows and processes versus words describing the flow. And drawing with a mouse is like drawing with a rock.

 

[iWooz]

The new iPad, typing a document and need to make a correction quickly? No, you cannot use your finger to position between the two letters you want to change, oh use the pencil, umm no.

You can move the cursor by moving 2 fingers on the keyboard.
https://www.imore.com/how-use-trackpad-mode-iphone-and-ipad

 

[akidd]

Interesting view. Might be right.
Wouldn’t swap my 2015 MBP though. Not yet.

I understand the frustration with the butterfly keyboard. I have a 2014 MBA, and will hold off as long as possible before . I want to stay with MacOS, but need to see how the keyboard holds-up with real world use on the 2018 MBA. Some folks have reported problems, and at this point it doesn't seem to be as big of an issue as before....but, definitely too early to tell. Anyway, my preference is to replace my current MBA with the new one if it proves to be reliable. My 2014 MBA has been the best computer I ever owned, so it’s a hard act to follow.

As OP pointed out, I sometimes wonder if Apple is just biding it's time with their laptops while they focus on the iPad Pro as an alternative device. In Tim Cook's heart, I think he believes the iPad is the future and is the better choice for the typical consumer, and iOS 13 might be another step in that direction. I don't necessarily agree this approach, but I think it may well be Apple's long term strategy. Also, they might think entry level consumers are better off with the base iPad ($329) plus Mac Mini ($799). Assuming most people have a monitor, keyboard, and mouse laying around the house, this setup might be a better option than paying $1200 for a laptop.......at least in Apple's eyes.

Time will tell.

nter

 

[LeeW]

You can move the cursor by moving 2 fingers on the keyboard.

Whooooosh....

 

[Camark08]

I literally chose the MacBook pro over the XPS because the only way to get 4k was to get the touchscreen. I don't want my laptop to be touchscreen. Fingerprints on my screen is a big no. That's what my phone is for.

 

[Never mind]

I literally chose the MacBook pro over the XPS because the only way to get 4k was to get the touchscreen. I don't want my laptop to be touchscreen. Fingerprints on my screen is a big no. That's what my phone is for.

To avoid this is by not touching the screen 😉

 

[poldidak]

Yup! I've made the decision after purchasing a Macbook Pro Touch Bar 2018 back in November, I used the extended holiday return period to really try to like the recent form of the MBPtb line. I've been using a MBP 2011 and MBA 2012, which have become underpowered for my needs. I was really excited for the upgrades made to the 2018 models, I thought the keyboard wasn't too bad (after hearing about all the problems; I still like the previous keyboards better). I wasn't thrilled to have to "dongle up" to use all my legacy devices, but was ready to upgrade some of those as well to connect easily with USB-C/TB.

Then I started reading about the issues with the internals, got cold feet, and decided to return it for a refund in January. I can't believe after 30+ years using Macs--I started with a Spectre GCR emulator with Mac ROMs running on an Atari ST , then went pure Mac from there--I'm ready to look at the other platform and brands. I used to not mind paying the Apple "premium", then using the machines till they died or slowed to a crawl. Now all I can think about is motherboard failures, malfunctioning keyboards, dongle hell and having no love for my dear Apple.

I'm moving on. Wish me luck...

 

[OdT22]

The new iPad, typing a document and need to make a correction quickly? No, you cannot use your finger to position between the two letters you want to change, oh use the pencil, umm no.

Just give me ****ng mouse support...

Lol!

I'm glad to hear someone else saying it. The iPad is nifty enough, and I've owned most of them. But leaving that platform has been far more pleasant and rewarding than leaving MacOS by a long mile.

I doubt there's ever been a better reading/watching platform. However, replying is more work than the simple device is worth IMO.

The consensus is to tolerate it on our smartphones. It is actually possible to create verbal content with thumbs only, amazingly. But on the larger screen? My thumbs just aren't in to gymnastics I guess.. ?

Apple and everyone else can keep their tablets, until they are as creative as the devices they hope to replace.

 

[Queen6]

I'm in the same boat. I've been an Apple fan since the mid-90s and have owned a version of everything Apple has produced since then. Multiples of most products.

But, recently, I'm feeling that unless I want to work on an iDevice I'm not important to Apple.

I run my business on Apple. Me & 2 (sometimes 3) employees keep our mortgages paid and the lights on every day using only Apple devices. And, for years we did the majority of our work on MacBook Pros, offloading power-hungry jobs to a couple of MacPros in the office. We've thought about other OSs, we even have a Microsoft Surface Studio on a desk in the corner (anyone want it?), but our workflow is deep in the Mac ecosystem and the transition would be horrific.

While we had some problems with the crappy video cards in the 2010 & 2011 MBPs, everything was good up until that silly Touch Bar showed up. Every 2 years we upgraded our lappy-tappies without much thought.

And, of course, we were hugely disappointed with the MacPro debacle of 2013. So we replaced our 2010 MPs with maxed-out 2012 MPs when we got scared about reliability. The 2012s still reliably chug away in a corner, headlessly converting video.

At this point we're in stasis with 4 2015 MBPs and don't see a viable alternative in the current lineup. Our business guy at Apple dropped a 2017 MBP off for us to use for a week, but after passing it around we didn't find anything compelling performance-wise and were sorely disappointed with the feel of the keyboard and the cognitive dissonance of the Touch Bar. Taking our eyes off the screen to find what we needed to push felt like a step back. At this point we see no future in the MBP line for us.

I ordered a Mac Mini yesterday that should arrive this afternoon. We're exploring that as the primary replacements for 3-year-old MBPs. We're considering keeping the portables for on-sites and our infrequent travel or picking up a couple of MBAs since they have normal-ish keyboards.

All told, I'm just not sure Apple's ever-thinner design ethos is well aligned with real small businesses. I don't need an uber-thin laptop: I need a powerful laptop with a decent, gimmick-free keyboard. I don't need a phone so thin it must ALWAYS be in a case (that effectively makes it thicker than the much sturdier iPhone 5). And I want a Pro machine that I can expand and upgrade (not a trash can with 45 cables sticking out the back).

Had no option but to switch to Windows as Apple pretty much forced it with the poor 2016 MBP design onwards. They are just expensive consumer grade notebooks now with questionable reliability, little else. Personally I've never seen so many drop the Mac for professional use, as for many now the current MBP is more of a liability than a useful productive tool.

Pricing is not an issue as my notebooks are employed professionally, equally the value must be in place, something that has very much degraded with Apple. I don't love Windows by any stretch, however this notebook is performant, has a port solution that makes sense in the real world, has an upgrade path, most importantly has proved to be reliable.

Over 20 years with Mac's, today I'm oversees on my primary engineering project, for the first time both systems are Windows as Apple simply does not produce a notebook worth considering...

Q-6

 

[torana355]

Yeah, i read the forum, i know how many people is that. Approximately, hundreds out of million..

I know, i would be annoyed if I got the defective unit, but you guys are unbelievable. This thread's title says it all.

You can say what you like but when people are returning the machine 3 or 4 times and getting the exact same keyboard issue that tells me everything I need to know. The keyboard design is rubbish, end of discussion.

 

[lJoSquaredl]

My love for MacOS, FCPX and their design doesn’t allow me to leave. For whatever reason Windows is extremely off putting to me, and I have never enjoyed the look of feel of any laptop chassis or keyboard. Desktops aren’t even an option for me anymore, they’re big and loud and mobile is the future so feels dated to me.

tl;dr No matter what issues I have with Apple, at least for me the alternative is always much worse. Plus if Apple fix stuff I know i’ll wanna come right back anyways.

 

[lnikj]

My love for MacOS, FCPX and their design doesn’t allow me to leave. For whatever reason Windows is extremely off putting to me, and I have never enjoyed the look of feel of any laptop chassis or keyboard. Desktops aren’t even an option for me anymore, they’re big and loud and mobile is the future so feels dated to me.

tl;dr No matter what issues I have with Apple, at least for me the alternative is always much worse. Plus if Apple fix stuff I know i’ll wanna come right back anyways.

Windows is no fun after OS X and I will come back if they fix stuff but I am not optimistic.

Apple have just passed their zenith IMHO and are now entering the long slow decline like IBM and Microsoft before them.

The direction of travel looks poor. If the rumours are right then we are heading to an ARM future, a merging of IOS and OS X and the roofing over of the walled garden. Most of the software I run will never be in any future App Store so jail breaking the device would be necessary.

Jony Ive has simply lost the plot with 'thin and light' and port removal. I expect the next generation of Macs will have no headphone port.

I just hope somebody at HQ realises before it is too late that these strategies will prove to be Apple's undoing.

Write all that off as rumour and speculation if you like but I know that Apple no longer has any notebook that works for me. I just hope my 2015 iMac keeps running for a long time.

 

[maflynn]

My love for MacOS, FCPX and their design doesn’t allow me to leave.

There's nothing wrong with that, enjoying the OS is a great reason to keep using the computers. I myself have stuck with Macs because of that.

For whatever reason Windows is extremely off putting to me,

For some, that's true. I started my computing days when it was just a command line, and I've used both Macs and Windows from the very beginning. Both operating systems have the strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Cashmonee]

You can say what you like but when people are returning the machine 3 or 4 times and getting the exact same keyboard issue that tells me everything I need to know. The keyboard design is rubbish, end of discussion.

Not to disagree, because you are right, but is that happening with the 2018? I have seen a few people have issues here, but nothing like what you describe. Even in the Butterfly 3 thread, as best I can tell there are maybe 1 or 2 reports of 2018 keyboards failing since the start of December. Most of the last 6 or 7 pages of that thread (dating back to the start of December) are either people complaining about their pre-2018 keyboard or talking about Apple quality and alternative options. Perhaps the first 50ish pages are full of 2018s with bad keyboards (I have not read all of it), but I highly doubt it.

In fact, a cursory look at the first page of this subforum right now shows only a few threads (3 or 4) about people with issues of any kind if you remove the three mega threads for the keyboard, T2, and speakers which as I stated contain more back and forth between the same people than actual reports of problems.

Most of what I have seen here in the sub is concern that the machine will fail. Which has led to people either making or receiving and acting on rather poor recommendations. If the problems with the machine (speaking mostly to the 2018 here) were really widespread, I would think we would have significantly more threads about problems.

Again. I do not mean to say these machines are perfect. And I am not claiming that Apple QC hasn't dropped off. However, I feel like a lot of people are simply responding to the echo chamber we are in here. What little repair evidence I have found has actually shown the 2016 and newer machines are more reliable overall than previous machines, and Apple remains the top brand for reliability amongst computer makers according to most outlets that test these things.

If anyone is thinking of abandoning Apple because the laptops lack the necessary ports, they dislike the feel of the keyboard, they are tired of the rising cost, poor spec value, or hardware that is not always current, then I understand and think you are right to look over the fence.

However, if you are worried about reliability and are concerned that you are buying a ticking time bomb, I would suggest you pull back from forums for a while and take a big picture perspective. The idea of leaving Apple for Dell, hp, Razer, etc for better reliability is not really rational and likely a response to the sky is falling perspective of the forum.

 

[09872738]

If anyone is thinking of abandoning Apple because the laptops lack the necessary ports, they dislike the feel of the keyboard, they are tired of the rising cost, poor spec value, or hardware that is not always current, then I understand and think you are right to look over the fence.

+1
Not to forget the disgusting, embarrassingly unprofessional behaviour concerning nVidia drivers, intentionally taking customers - who actually paid for their products - hostage, leaving them in the dust

 

[Dave245]

Not to disagree, because you are right, but is that happening with the 2018? I have seen a few people have issues here, but nothing like what you describe. Even in the Butterfly 3 thread, as best I can tell there are maybe 1 or 2 reports of 2018 keyboards failing since the start of December. Most of the last 6 or 7 pages of that thread (dating back to the start of December) are either people complaining about their pre-2018 keyboard or talking about Apple quality and alternative options. Perhaps the first 50ish pages are full of 2018s with bad keyboards (I have not read all of it), but I highly doubt it.

In fact, a cursory look at the first page of this subforum right now shows only a few threads (3 or 4) about people with issues of any kind if you remove the three mega threads for the keyboard, T2, and speakers which as I stated contain more back and forth between the same people than actual reports of problems.

Most of what I have seen here in the sub is concern that the machine will fail. Which has led to people either making or receiving and acting on rather poor recommendations. If the problems with the machine (speaking mostly to the 2018 here) were really widespread, I would think we would have significantly more threads about problems.

Again. I do not mean to say these machines are perfect. And I am not claiming that Apple QC hasn't dropped off. However, I feel like a lot of people are simply responding to the echo chamber we are in here. What little repair evidence I have found has actually shown the 2016 and newer machines are more reliable overall than previous machines, and Apple remains the top brand for reliability amongst computer makers according to most outlets that test these things.

If anyone is thinking of abandoning Apple because the laptops lack the necessary ports, they dislike the feel of the keyboard, they are tired of the rising cost, poor spec value, or hardware that is not always current, then I understand and think you are right to look over the fence.

However, if you are worried about reliability and are concerned that you are buying a ticking time bomb, I would suggest you pull back from forums for a while and take a big picture perspective. The idea of leaving Apple for Dell, hp, Razer, etc for better reliability is not really rational and likely a response to the sky is falling perspective of the forum.

I think a lot is about concern as you say, I didn't jump ship for that reason I had been looking at Surface devices for a while, it wasn't until I had a bad customer service experience with my 2017 iPad Pro (Apple did rectify the issue later) that I decided enough was enough and I wanted to try a Surface Pro 6.

I still love my Apple devices and I still use an iMac, I have no intention of leaving Apple completely, I even have no intention of leaving Mac's completely, I still intend to use an iMac, I still love MacOS and do prefer it over Windows. The Surface Pro 6 for me is a great little laptop replacement for everyday tasks, I love using it to write during long writing sessions, email, web browsing, annotating on the screen with the Surface Pen and playing my Windows based games. However as a tablet it's a no go, I still use my iPad Pro for watching Netflix, YouTube videos and general tablet tasks.

When Apple finally update the iMac with a redesign or a big update I will be buying one as my desktop.

I have to clarify that the issue I had with customer service was later fixed by Apple's executive relations, to cut a long story short I received a brand new iPad Pro (second gen) when mine started to play up out of warranty (it would turn itself off and on again).

I do think that Apple have had issues with their MacBook Pro's and the keyboards especially, however with the new generation I believe the failure rates to be lower than they were. I do understand people's frustration, when spending a lot of money on a product you don't expect it to fail. The same can be said for the new iPad Pro with "bendgate"

I hope Apple have a better year in 2019 with their products and that they fix many of the issues that people have been experiencing.

 

[mashinhead]

guys, there are a lot of great pc laptops at CES this year. give them a look.

This always comes down to people saying look at 'other laptops' This has never been about the market not offering other good laptops. This is and always has been about the OS. People put up with Apple's crap not because of hardware, but because of software. There aren't other great, user friendly OSes (sp?).

 

[azpekt]

It’s quite hard to explain in reasonable terms, but Apple’s magic wore off for me...

Rocked MacBook Pro from 2009 up until 2017. Then got rid of it and iPad Pro (which was awesome), and switched to Thinkpad X1 Carbon / Ubuntu.

I never had that much satisfaction from simple typing on that keyboard. That laptop delivers.

 

[R.P.G]

lack of Ports are the biggest problem for most people i met. and lacking of physical Function keys are another major problem. Devs i know destroyed touch bar with their general use in 6 months and they went back to 2015 version.

it has been more than 2 yrs since apple removed ports in expectation of main stream adoption of USB C. but it is not happening...i consider this as epic fail.

 

[olindacat]

Apple's magic wore off years ago, but I still have hope.

As an exercise: I've had a Windows laptop (from Costco) sitting in my LR and must say Windows, after all these years, is still a study in planned obsolescence. Gates made is billions with it and many love it but I think it is horrid!

And, I was a big early adopter of both paltforms. I used MS-DOS back in the early '80s like a lot of others here too. Bottom line, for me: Windows is pure manure.

Additionally, and nothing personal against the guy, but Tim Cook's act is sooooo tiring. The guy strikes me as someone who is where he is by virtue of squeezing vendors, supply chain wizardry, financial crunching, extending the useful life out of tired tech long beyond its sex sppeal, and corporate ladder climbing.

I'm sure I'm wrong but he just seems like he did whatever it took to be in line to succeed Jobs. I am sure he's a wonderful man, but he's a bean counter and probably hasn't had to do much work on a machine in years. He stinks as a maker of innovative personal computers.

That all said I hate the Windows machine so much I want to barf on it. I'll do my QuickBooks taxes in it and shove it under my dogs bed. Thing is *****!

Now I need a laptop. I dread the idea of paying close to the same cash for a dated 2015, as a 2018 (MBP eBay used prices with AppleCare+), and maybe I'm just seeing a mirage but the numbers seem to be close, anyway.

I keep coming back here hoping the Apple picture is going to get better. I really wish it would.

What is upsetting is we have no innovation anymore. Talk about a gap in the market. If I had any memory or brains left I'd have a gang of programmers making a new and simple OS machine language with email, word processing, spreadsheet, image editing, video and audio editing, browser, and a few more basics and some cute fruit like an orange or a squirrel or even an acorn for Pete's sake as a logo! (Humor) 🙂

Sorry for the old man rant. Now, that all said: is everyone waiting or buying 2018 MBPs? I can wait but hate my two iPads and my iMacs are in my attic and it's murder carrying my doggie up and down the stairs all day!

 

[FreckledLlama]

I will never jump ship been using Mac's all my life and I'm 38 at and started using them at 7 or 8 in computer class. PC's are horrible and even for 1000 dollars you can only get FULL HD portables and those awful non SSD drives still offered with ugly designs and plasticky like screens and horrid trackpads. No thanks.