maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
No question, one of Apple's strengths is its industry leading customer support. I've only had glowing, positive, interactions with apple
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Anyone else abandoning ship?
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rayriceroni00
Suspended
late 2013. I didn't touch the space bar, but I did replace the mechanisms for a few others. They would get really tired feeling and noisy.
I used a collar stay plastic thing to slide under and pop the keys.
I have pulled the keys off and cleaned under them. That is pretty easy. But how did you pull the plungers/switches (the parts that the keys attach to) and replace/clean the inside of those?
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rayriceroni00
Suspended
My first step was buying extras. I figured I'd lose one to total destruction in the process. I did.
The butterfly/hinge breaks easily when removing. You have to basically pinch the legs slightly to unhook. It's pretty easy once you do one. That was always the part that got noisy or crappy. The nipple/plunger you basically tore off if I remember. New one either had adhesive or you put a drop of super glue on the base.
I don't mind the new keyboards, but the 2013 type of keyboard was easier for bigger hands. You could also repair keys yourself. Not looking forward to new keys acting up.
By the way, I love Apple stores but they couldn't even do what I did at home to fix my keyboard. I'd expect shipping out the new MacBook for basically anything.
Yes, it was an excellent machine. I wish Apple still made them like that, but alas...
It's just as well it was a 2010 as it was not prone to logic board failures. It's too bad since the 2011 is substantially more powerful with quadcore CPUs and 16 GB of RAM. It would be the 17" MBP to have if it weren't so fatally flawed.
In the end I sold it for more than I paid for my ThinkPad last summer (granted it was second-hand, 6 weeks old).
I think if I were to buy new I'd be seriously considering the recently showcased LG Gram 17. Just under 3 lb ultrabook with 17.3" 16:10 1600p IPS display in a 15" chassis, for 2/3 what the base 15" MBP costs.
OdT22
macrumors 6502
CPU is weaker than in the 13" i5 😵
But considering I've heard before people bought the 15" solely for the screen size, this makes perfect sense.
Apple should make a uniform "MacBook Pro" where screen size is just one of selectable parameters.
(and perhaps 15" could be configured with also up to 45W CPUs, while 13" is limited to 28W).
But why apple doesn't make a 15" without dGPU and an optional 28W CPU is beyond me.. it would be super easy to fit the 13" hardware into the 15" chassis now that it has enough PCIe lanes.
some people just want bigger screens
(not me tho, I'd buy a 13" hexacore if it was available)
You're right on both counts. Though the single core performance of the i7 15W is slightly better than that of the i5 in the 13" MBP, the multi-core is higher in the MBP.
The reality is I and many others just need the form factor. I need screen real estate to do work, especially working with multiple windows. The i7 8565U in the Gram 17 is more than enough to do quite a bit of work, though it obviously would not be ideal for video editing or 3D work (since the Gram has no dedicated graphics). 16 GB of RAM and the modern 4 core / 8 thread CPU with M.2 SSD (with two drive slots) and 4-lane Thunderbolt 3 should offer solid performance for a pretty wide range of use.
There are already laptops for that purpose, larger mobile workstation machines for those that require more. What hasn't really been done before is a 17" class ultrabook.
I've forever wanted Apple to offer lower tier 15" MBPs (and to bring back the 17") but alas, they seem to think 15" must be paired with higher computing power. The fact that the Gram 17 is only slightly more than 13" MBP also tells me that even if Apple did offer it, it would still be pretty expensive.
Gator1pk
macrumors member
AndyMacAndMic
macrumors 65816
What do you think this thread is about?
To be aware of what's on the market so you can make informed choices, I'd suspect.
uller6
macrumors 65816
Can’t say, I use a wired mouse with an apple Bluetooth keyboard. Haven’t had any issues with the keyboard though.
Eason85
macrumors 6502
I've already given a few examples of the company behaving unethically. See the recent softminer I linked. This behaviour is from the CEO down. Their engineering is seriously flawed and they cut costs everywhere they can. Their RMA rates are insane, check their IPO documents.
Their 15-inch blade seems to have problems with its AC adapter catching fire with alarming regularly. Battery bloat and failure is extremely high on their stealth and pro lines. Any other brand would have issued recalls and warnings, but Razer seems to avoid responsibly at every turn. Then there are engineering flaws like the plastic anchoring for the display on the 15, screens falling out, power rail failures... All due to heat and cheap components used.
This is coming from someone who has spent around 5k usd on razer products in the past and dealt with the company dozens of times over the past 4 years.
Buying a razer product at this point is like marrying a black widow. Sure her last 5 husbands died mysteriously, but she's hot AF, and maybe this time it will be different, right?
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SDColorado
macrumors 601
That’s the kind of thing that got me down off the ledge when I was looking at them last year. Best Buy suggested I look at something else saying that the Razer Blade was the most frequently returned laptop they sold. Microcenter told be that they had QA issues and suggested I look at Lenovo, Asus, and MSI. The Microsoft Store told me that they have a lot of QA issues, but if you get a good one that they are really good. But I was kinda turned off them by that point and didn’t feel like playing the lottery,
Though I have since been told that Amazon is the way to go when purchasing one due to their liberal return policy.
dollystereo
macrumors 6502a
I really think people should take a look at the Dell Precision 5530, great machine, great support (5 year d+1 warranty). Nvidia GPU, light and fast.
I tried configuring it the similar to 15" MacBook Pro 2.6 (2.6GHz/16gb/560x/512gb ssd(class50)) and the sum total is 2489$ vs 2799$ of the macbook pro.
That's 310$ price difference.
P2000 is in some way closer to 560x and in some ways closer to Vega.
The MacBook pro gives you 4x thunderbolt3 vs 1x thunderbolt 3, so vastly expanded external connectivity.
You might argue that MacBook Pro is overconfigured, but spec-for-spec over-priced? seems everywhere I look similar spec'd laptops cost around the same.
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
I've only had limited interactions with them, owning a laptop for under a two weeks. That short time it was great, but such a short ownership isn't enough to determine long term durability. Now the reason why I only owned them for two weeks wasn't because it was problematic, but rather the promise of a better MacBook Pro.
The question is do I want to take a chance on one model failing that has a poorer reputation then apple, when with apple's great reputation I chose to abandon their laptops. I don't think so at this point.
I had a longer reply already posted, but I edited it out, as I'm tired of doing research.
To bring this around on topic to the thread title, some people are abandoning the Macbook Pro due to durability (and the high price). At the risk of beating a dead horse, apple's insistence on having the thinnest laptop thus continue to using the butterfly keyboard has painted themselves into a corner. I personally don't want to trade a thin and light MBP for another machine that may have similar issues.
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For the first time I am looking around at the Windows competition, but, although Apple's competition has improved and is very nearly as good, I have yet to find a PC laptop that does not mess up one or more key things.
For now I will stick with the 2015 15 inch MBP workhorse and a 2017 12 inch MacBook for when I need something super portable.
For now I will stick with the 2015 15 inch MBP workhorse and a 2017 12 inch MacBook for when I need something super portable.
jakebrosy
macrumors regular
I'm in the same boat. I've been an Apple fan since the mid-90s and have owned a version of everything Apple has produced since then. Multiples of most products.
But, recently, I'm feeling that unless I want to work on an iDevice I'm not important to Apple.
I run my business on Apple. Me & 2 (sometimes 3) employees keep our mortgages paid and the lights on every day using only Apple devices. And, for years we did the majority of our work on MacBook Pros, offloading power-hungry jobs to a couple of MacPros in the office. We've thought about other OSs, we even have a Microsoft Surface Studio on a desk in the corner (anyone want it?), but our workflow is deep in the Mac ecosystem and the transition would be horrific.
While we had some problems with the crappy video cards in the 2010 & 2011 MBPs, everything was good up until that silly Touch Bar showed up. Every 2 years we upgraded our lappy-tappies without much thought.
And, of course, we were hugely disappointed with the MacPro debacle of 2013. So we replaced our 2010 MPs with maxed-out 2012 MPs when we got scared about reliability. The 2012s still reliably chug away in a corner, headlessly converting video.
At this point we're in stasis with 4 2015 MBPs and don't see a viable alternative in the current lineup. Our business guy at Apple dropped a 2017 MBP off for us to use for a week, but after passing it around we didn't find anything compelling performance-wise and were sorely disappointed with the feel of the keyboard and the cognitive dissonance of the Touch Bar. Taking our eyes off the screen to find what we needed to push felt like a step back. At this point we see no future in the MBP line for us.
I ordered a Mac Mini yesterday that should arrive this afternoon. We're exploring that as the primary replacements for 3-year-old MBPs. We're considering keeping the portables for on-sites and our infrequent travel or picking up a couple of MBAs since they have normal-ish keyboards.
All told, I'm just not sure Apple's ever-thinner design ethos is well aligned with real small businesses. I don't need an uber-thin laptop: I need a powerful laptop with a decent, gimmick-free keyboard. I don't need a phone so thin it must ALWAYS be in a case (that effectively makes it thicker than the much sturdier iPhone 5). And I want a Pro machine that I can expand and upgrade (not a trash can with 45 cables sticking out the back).
But, recently, I'm feeling that unless I want to work on an iDevice I'm not important to Apple.
I run my business on Apple. Me & 2 (sometimes 3) employees keep our mortgages paid and the lights on every day using only Apple devices. And, for years we did the majority of our work on MacBook Pros, offloading power-hungry jobs to a couple of MacPros in the office. We've thought about other OSs, we even have a Microsoft Surface Studio on a desk in the corner (anyone want it?), but our workflow is deep in the Mac ecosystem and the transition would be horrific.
While we had some problems with the crappy video cards in the 2010 & 2011 MBPs, everything was good up until that silly Touch Bar showed up. Every 2 years we upgraded our lappy-tappies without much thought.
And, of course, we were hugely disappointed with the MacPro debacle of 2013. So we replaced our 2010 MPs with maxed-out 2012 MPs when we got scared about reliability. The 2012s still reliably chug away in a corner, headlessly converting video.
At this point we're in stasis with 4 2015 MBPs and don't see a viable alternative in the current lineup. Our business guy at Apple dropped a 2017 MBP off for us to use for a week, but after passing it around we didn't find anything compelling performance-wise and were sorely disappointed with the feel of the keyboard and the cognitive dissonance of the Touch Bar. Taking our eyes off the screen to find what we needed to push felt like a step back. At this point we see no future in the MBP line for us.
I ordered a Mac Mini yesterday that should arrive this afternoon. We're exploring that as the primary replacements for 3-year-old MBPs. We're considering keeping the portables for on-sites and our infrequent travel or picking up a couple of MBAs since they have normal-ish keyboards.
All told, I'm just not sure Apple's ever-thinner design ethos is well aligned with real small businesses. I don't need an uber-thin laptop: I need a powerful laptop with a decent, gimmick-free keyboard. I don't need a phone so thin it must ALWAYS be in a case (that effectively makes it thicker than the much sturdier iPhone 5). And I want a Pro machine that I can expand and upgrade (not a trash can with 45 cables sticking out the back).
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
Not for nothing, but Apple needs to be included in that as well.
That's a great machine and perfectly relevant even in 2019.
LeeW
macrumors 601
I work in a company that gives allowances so that you can buy the tech you want to do your job rather than force you down a particular route. Two years ago if someone walked into a room with a windows laptop or Android phone they would get the usual mocking.
Two years on about 75% are now using a variety of Windows laptops (Dell, Razer and Microsoft are popular) and I would say more than that have android phones. Reliability and the delicate-seeming nature of the devices (keyboard) being the biggest reasons for the change. As people moved to Windows they didn't then feel the need to have an iPhone at the next changeover point so went for Samsung or Google Pixel.
On the personal/home user side I have seen a lesser but still significant switch to Windows and Linux. The option of only one keyboard across every mobile device that they do not like or simply the price is driving people away.
And the price is an important point. People (here) will say, well, if you can't afford it go PC. It's not about being able to afford it, they can all afford it, but many of my friends simply feel that Apple is punching above its weight these days in terms of price and quality.
I have stuck with Apple, no, I have stuck with macOS and been forced to use Apple hardware, however, I am spending more time getting back in touch with Windows to get it working for me. Will I switch? Not in any rush after spending $2k on a new mini which I expect to last me 5 years, but never say never! I am not impressed with Apple at the minute and I have always been their supporter.
Stygma
macrumors member
Even DJ's are starting to switch from MBP to Windows machines, The MBP has been a staple for DJ's for years.
Dave245
macrumors G4
I abandoned ship on Black Friday 2018 when I brought a Surface Pro 6 in the Black Friday deal. It’s a complicated issue, I really like the Surface Pro 6 but I still like Apple devices also.
The Surface Pro 6 is a great bit of hardware, however I have noticed a few things
1. I prefer using MacOS it’s just better
2. The Apple Pencil for iPad Pro is better
3. The Surface Pro 6 has a nice keyboard however the trackpad is a little annoying.
Overall I’m still keeping my Surface Pro 6 but I don’t say I love it as much as I do the Mac. The iPad Pro is also a better tablet than the Surface BUT the Surface is a better laptop replacement.
The Surface Pro 6 is a great bit of hardware, however I have noticed a few things
1. I prefer using MacOS it’s just better
2. The Apple Pencil for iPad Pro is better
3. The Surface Pro 6 has a nice keyboard however the trackpad is a little annoying.
Overall I’m still keeping my Surface Pro 6 but I don’t say I love it as much as I do the Mac. The iPad Pro is also a better tablet than the Surface BUT the Surface is a better laptop replacement.
rayriceroni00
Suspended
I think someone mentioned touch screen previously and asked if it's a dying fad.
I can't to this day figure out why I'd want my laptop to be touch screen. I need a keyboard/mouse or kb/trackpad to do my intense work. I'm not lifting my hands to touch the screen. Touch screen is for the iPad on the couch or the smart phone. I also don't need some hybrid crap laptop where the screen disconnects and becomes a tablet.
I really hope Apple never makes their MacBooks touch screen. We don't need finger prints on these amazing displays.
I can't to this day figure out why I'd want my laptop to be touch screen. I need a keyboard/mouse or kb/trackpad to do my intense work. I'm not lifting my hands to touch the screen. Touch screen is for the iPad on the couch or the smart phone. I also don't need some hybrid crap laptop where the screen disconnects and becomes a tablet.
I really hope Apple never makes their MacBooks touch screen. We don't need finger prints on these amazing displays.