Anyone else abandoning ship?

[LeeW]

it is much easier than it was 20 years ago.

Yeah, wasn't suggesting it was 20 years ago, it's part of what I have been doing for the last 20 years.

 

[leman]

1) There are objective methods to gauge the efficiency of a product design, as it compares to another.
2) Less efficient designs are objectively inferior for the general populace, regardless of individual quirks/taste.

I completely agree with the above statements, but the rest of your post sadly contains only subjective conjectures. Point by point:

MagSafe is a proprietary single-purpose connector. USB-C disconnects almost as easily if force is applied, but it’s a also multi-purpose standard port that among other things allows charging from any side. So while MagSafe might be superior in one particular aspect, it’s inferior in others.

The sound emissions of both 2016+ MacBook Pro and the previous thicket models are identical under maximal load at 46dB. In practice, it’s much quieter than that. Most other laptops are louder.

Keyboard comfort is purely subjective measure. I personally much prefer the butterfly keyboard.

I am not sure what you mean with dongle design. I can attach my power, display output and all external peripherals I need with a single cable. How is this inferior to using three or more cables on the old model?

Also, not quite sure what you mean by “norm” in this context. There are laptops that are faster and there are laptops that are lighter. It’s all about the particular balance of features. From this perspective, Apple’s offering is fairly unique since it’s the most compact laptop in its class that still delivers competitive performance and above average battery life. It’s also very expensive, but that’s nothing new.

 

[grmlin]

I have been thinking about this for months on end. I want to switch to another email provider, but my gut tells me that all the reliable email services do this.

I’ve used Proton Mail, but this is more of a niche product IMO.

Do you know of any reliable, mainstream email providers that don’t “mine” your emails? Serious question: not sarcasm.

I used fastmail for years before I switched to a (in the past) free google mail business account. It's not free of course.

 

[Mendota]

The rebuttal to this is:

1) There are objective methods to gauge the efficiency of a product design, as it compares to another.
2) Less efficient designs are objectively inferior for the general populace, regardless of individual quirks/taste.

• The MagSafe is, in my estimation, a more efficient design. It solved a problem. The replacement of it with an interface that does not solve said problem is a step backward in product quality.

• Slimmer machines are less efficient when it comes to performance-per-decibel, due to reduced space for cooling (fan noise). They also tend to have inferior audio. Audio quality has gone backward.

• Keyboard comfort has gone backward. Although I don't greatly mind typing on my 2013 MBP, my 2008 model was clearly more comfortable due to its softer keys. The 2013 keyboard is better than the more recent designs. My spouse has one of the new ones and I am not impressed, nor am I impressed with the too-large trackpad and the touchbar. Both of those interfere with ergonomics, like where I can rest my hands.

• The dongle design is clearly inferior, from an efficient functionality standpoint, to having readily-accessible ports. The dongle design is efficient for Apple's profit-seeking, not for user satisfaction/productivity.

• While anecdote does not define the norm, the norm does exist. It is not merely another anecdote. It's also not defined by Apple's decisions. Apple's design choices can be objectively measured, rather than falsely assumed to be ideal from a user's point of view. There is a clear conflict of interest between a corporation's profit-seeking and a customer's value-seeking.

Apple has a rather captured audience, as Windows 10 is an atrocious alternative and Linux is kneecapped by lack of software options. The company knows this and pushes the boundaries of exploitation as far as it can, the mandate of all for-profit corporations. With better competition in operating systems/platforms, Apple would have to offer better products than it does. Unfortunately, the state of Windows continues to deteriorate so I do not expect anything but deterioration from the Apple side of things.

Linux could be a good platform with more investment into professional-quality UI and much better software flexibility (i.e. professional programs actually being available on it). However, given that there is no megacorp behind Linux-on-the-desktop to a serious-enough degree, it is unlikely to happen any time soon. One of the biggest problems with Linux is that developers lack UI design skill/vision and everyone wants to have splinter projects. Amateurism coupled with fragmentation yields inferior results. Apple does do software/UI clarity + consistency better than the competition. Unfortunately, the competition, both in mobile and on the desktop, is so half-baked that it doesn't have to do its best.

Because Windows 10 is terrible and Linux isn't even half-baked as a desktop platform. The quality of the competition, as in so much of tech, isn't very good. Tech is riddled with duopolies and that doesn't give consumers much in the way of ideal choice.

No, just no. Windows isn't terrible. I run Windows everyday to do everything from 3D rendering, gaming, painting, and writing, as well as all the small things such as Web browsing, and email. It is rock solid. It does not crash or have bridge errors. It does not arbitrarily limit or eliminate hardware with OS updates. It runs circles around Mac in terms of versatility and power. You are a typical Apple fan basing Windows with a non nondescript vague: "It is terrible." Which tells me that since you can't figure out how to use it, it must be bad. And your comment about UI clarity says it all. There is more to computing and operating systems than what they look like. An example of superior consistency on Windows is OneDrive vs the pathetic iCloud, as so called cloud that can't even store an text document.

 

[Evangeline]

But as a PC user, I can have a powerful machine, spec to my needs, at a decent price. This is how my desktop is set up, it has exactly what I want.

It also has NSA backdoors and Chinese spyware built right into the motherboard firmware.

 

[fivenotrump]

[...] An example of superior consistency on Windows is OneDrive vs the pathetic iCloud, as so called cloud that can't even store an text document.

I'm curious: what kind of text document cannot be stored in iCloud?

 

[Mendota]

It also has NSA backdoors and Chinese spyware built right into the motherboard firmware.

Given that you don't know anything about my equipment, that is a ridiculous thing for you to say. Put down the Apple kool aid. No offense, but there is no other way I can say it. I have read some of your other post, and you clearly live in in Apple's locked world. I get the impression that you think that somehow makes your superior... It doesn't.

 

[maflynn]

It also has NSA backdoors and Chinese spyware built right into the motherboard firmware.

Both of those claims have been disputed and proved false, but if you think the Chinese are spying on you, then get a mac - but wait they're also made in China as well.

 

[LeeW]

It also has NSA backdoors and Chinese spyware built right into the motherboard firmware.

Assume that is true for PC, show me the evidence that it is not also true for Apple who rely 100% on China for everything you buy from them.

 

[Mendota]

I'm curious: what kind of text document cannot be stored in iCloud?

On my iPad I cannot upload any of my pictures or documents in the same way I can OneDrive. On my Mac there is no client that is easy to to use. They have made some improvements and I am grateful for that, but it is still too restricted. I still cannot get it to work on Linux well, even with the browser.

 

[grmlin]

On my iPad I cannot upload any of my pictures or documents in the same way I can OneDrive. On my Mac there is no client that is easy to to use. They have made some improvements and I am grateful for that, but it is still too restricted. I still cannot get it to work on Linux well, even with the browser.

I don't understand this post, my iCloud drive sits just there in my finder? What else do I need to add files to it? (not talking about iOS).

 

[mdnz]

It also has NSA backdoors and Chinese spyware built right into the motherboard firmware.

You mean like all Intel processors?

 

[maflynn]

On my iPad I cannot upload any of my pictures or documents in the same way I can OneDrive. On my Mac there is no client that is easy to to use. They have made some improvements and I am grateful for that, but it is still too restricted. I still cannot get it to work on Linux well, even with the browser.

From what I've read, the latest update to iOS now called iPadOS can do that. I was watching a YT about the new OS and its pretty impressive.

As for Mac, I do say that Apple's implementation of the Cloud drive is pretty good. I think if you select to use your documents and desktop on the cloud that increases its ability, integration. OneDrive now has this as well, but it seems bolted on a bit more and less intuitive. I prefer OneDrive and have largely moved to that but Cloud Drive is a nice feature on the Mac. Given the shortcomings of iOS, you cannot fully explore and utilize iCloud's power

 

[Kung gu]

Both of those claims have been disputed and proved false, but if you think the Chinese are spying on you, then get a mac - but wait they're also made in China as well.

being made in china and using chinese hardware are totally different things

 

[cram501]

Yeah, wasn't suggesting it was 20 years ago, it's part of what I have been doing for the last 20 years.

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that it was trivial. My point was if privacy is a big concern, there are alternatives and it is much easier to get information to do it today. You don't have to read through multiple RFPs and man pages. You would still have to be dedicated enough to research the options to get it right. It isn't trivial but it is doable.

 

[dstraigh]

No, just no. Windows isn't terrible. I run Windows everyday to do everything from 3D rendering, gaming, painting, and writing, as well as all the small things such as Web browsing, and email. It is rock solid. It does not crash or have bridge errors. It does not arbitrarily limit or eliminate hardware with OS updates. It runs circles around Mac in terms of versatility and power. You are a typical Apple fan basing Windows with a non nondescript vague: "It is terrible." Which tells me that since you can't figure out how to use it, it must be bad. And your comment about UI clarity says it all. There is more to computing and operating systems than what they look like. An example of superior consistency on Windows is OneDrive vs the pathetic iCloud, as so called cloud that can't even store an text document.

Now, if there were only a way for me to put a stop to Windows 10 automatically rebooting. Yes, I know there are lots of hacks and semi-work arounds to prevent (or just delay) Windows 10 from automatically rebooting. I was never able to make these work. For that reason alone I like macOS.

 

[LeeW]

Now, if there were only a way for me to put a stop to Windows 10 automatically rebooting. Yes, I know there are lots of hacks and semi-work arounds to prevent (or just delay) Windows 10 from automatically rebooting. I was never able to make these work. For that reason alone I like macOS.

It wants to reboot for a reason, I take it you mean after updates are installed? I don't know of any other reason it would do this. Change your active hours so it makes the requests at specific times, you can defer it three times for up to 4 hours I think.

How often does it do updates?

The reasons for avoiding Windows are certainly getting worse...

 

[Queen6]

Now, if there were only a way for me to put a stop to Windows 10 automatically rebooting. Yes, I know there are lots of hacks and semi-work arounds to prevent (or just delay) Windows 10 from automatically rebooting. I was never able to make these work. For that reason alone I like macOS.

Simple switch the connection to metered in Networking & Internet - WiFi - Manage Known Networks - (select network) Properties and scroll down to set to metered

Note this will shut done the vast majority of updates, including the Store so you should check manually when convenient. No hacks needed just W10 own settings.

Q-6

 

[Mendota]

Now, if there were only a way for me to put a stop to Windows 10 automatically rebooting. Yes, I know there are lots of hacks and semi-work arounds to prevent (or just delay) Windows 10 from automatically rebooting. I was never able to make these work. For that reason alone I like macOS.

It is very easy to delay the update even before 1903, which has made it even easier. Right now all you have to do is:

See the option to schedule the restart? Use that and select a date and time. You can do that a week at a time for a month if necessary. It will still install the malware protections that don't need a reboot.

 

[Mendota]

I don't understand this post, my iCloud drive sits just there in my finder? What else do I need to add files to it? (not talking about iOS).

IOS matters to me as a graphic artist because iPad is the device that has the option for art sketching and creation. If I use Procreate to start a drawing then want to finish on my desktop… It is wasn't for OneDrive I wouldn't be able to do so. That would effectively make apps on the iPad useless for me. We will see if the upcoming iPadOS makes iCloud more useful.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

IOS matters to me as a graphic artist because iPad is the device that has the option for art sketching and creation. If I use Procreate to start a drawing then want to finish on my desktop… It is wasn't for OneDrive I wouldn't be able to do so. That would effectively make apps on the iPad useless for me. We will see if the upcoming iPadOS makes iCloud more useful.

Hoping for the same tbh. There are some apps that are nice on the iPad, but I can't stand how limited it is when it comes to being a computer. I do think iPadOS is a step in the right direction.

 

[dstraigh]

It wants to reboot for a reason, I take it you mean after updates are installed? I don't know of any other reason it would do this. Change your active hours so it makes the requests at specific times, you can defer it three times for up to 4 hours I think.

How often does it do updates?

The reasons for avoiding Windows are certainly getting worse...

I run numerical electromagnetic simulations that run for days - if Windows reboots then the simulation is interrupted which then requires starting the simulation from scratch. Given that this is part of how I make a living as an electrical engineer while working with tight schedules - I wouldn't trivialize the "reasons for avoiding Windows" as "getting worse" - in fact, earlier versions of Window weren't afflicted with this issue (forced reboots). At this time switching to Linux has solved this critical issue.

I'm glad you asked.

 

[Mendota]

I run numerical electromagnetic simulations that run for days - if Windows reboots then the simulation is interrupted which then requires starting the simulation from scratch. Given that this is part of how I make a living as an electrical engineer while working with tight schedules - I wouldn't trivialize the "reasons for avoiding Windows" as "getting worse" - in fact, earlier versions of Window weren't afflicted with this issue (forced reboots). At this time switching to Linux has solved this critical issue.

I'm glad you asked.

Now you are telling me that you are able to run all these complicated systems, and yet you can't figure out how to schedule Windows updates?! I smell a rat here. I don't think you actually tried to use Windows and were just looking for an opportunity to bash it. There are no forced reboots if you set up the times. I also use Linux and it too ask to reboot for updates, and on occasion it will not run well until you do. Of course like Windows it asks and you take a moment to do it. Again another person with "I need to bash Windows in order to justify my choices."

The other day on a game site there was a person asking for help with her Windows 7 computer. Turns out she has set updates to manual and forgot about it for over two years! She had multiple malware issues among other things. "I just forgot about it." She said... This is the kind of user that Microsoft has had to put up with, someone who shouldn't even have a computer. Yet people like you want to continue to bash Microsoft because they felt the need to address the issue. It is just like all those XP users that cried and cried when Ransomware attacked their computers, when they had been warned to upgrade.

 

[dstraigh]

Now you are telling me that you are able to run all these complicated systems, and yet you can't figure out how to schedule Windows updates?! I smell a rat here. I don't think you actually tried to use Windows and were just looking for an opportunity to bash it. There are no forced reboots if you set up the times. I also use Linux and it too ask to reboot for updates, and on occasion it will not run well until you do. Of course like Windows it asks and you take a moment to do it. Again another person with "I need to bash Windows in order to justify my choices."

The other day on a game site there was a person asking for help with her Windows 7 computer. Turns out she has set updates to manual and forgot about it for over two years! She had multiple malware issues among other things. "I just forgot about it." She said... This is the kind of user that Microsoft has had to put up with, someone who shouldn't even have a computer. Yet people like you want to continue to bash Microsoft because they felt the need to address the issue. It is just like all those XP users that cried and cried when Ransomware attacked their computers, when they had been warned to upgrade.

My career isn't in IT. I design microwave and mmW structures for a living. But, feel free to believe whatever you want.

 

[Queen6]

I run numerical electromagnetic simulations that run for days - if Windows reboots then the simulation is interrupted which then requires starting the simulation from scratch. Given that this is part of how I make a living as an electrical engineer while working with tight schedules - I wouldn't trivialize the "reasons for avoiding Windows" as "getting worse" - in fact, earlier versions of Window weren't afflicted with this issue (forced reboots). At this time switching to Linux has solved this critical issue.

I'm glad you asked.

Have you considered a separate system for offline use? If not try O&O Shutup10 that should stop any reboots. Personally I just flip the WiFi connection to "Metered" when in the field on engineering projects as this halts all updates a barring any emergency requirement.

So far I've incurred no reboots that I didn't plan. I don't have any issue with W10 and it has proved to be 100% stable for my workflow for the past couple of years, equally I'm also looking to Linux as that avenue opens up ever more. Apple's focus is clearly more on the base consumer with likely far less demanding workflows.

W10 you've got to invest time to get the best out of it, this is the trade off for a more open and flexible OS with the reality being you cant have more choices without more options to deal with.

Q-6
[doublepost=1559982555][/doublepost]

Now you are telling me that you are able to run all these complicated systems, and yet you can't figure out how to schedule Windows updates?! I smell a rat here. I don't think you actually tried to use Windows and were just looking for an opportunity to bash it. There are no forced reboots if you set up the times. I also use Linux and it too ask to reboot for updates, and on occasion it will not run well until you do. Of course like Windows it asks and you take a moment to do it. Again another person with "I need to bash Windows in order to justify my choices."

The other day on a game site there was a person asking for help with her Windows 7 computer. Turns out she has set updates to manual and forgot about it for over two years! She had multiple malware issues among other things. "I just forgot about it." She said... This is the kind of user that Microsoft has had to put up with, someone who shouldn't even have a computer. Yet people like you want to continue to bash Microsoft because they felt the need to address the issue. It is just like all those XP users that cried and cried when Ransomware attacked their computers, when they had been warned to upgrade.

My career isn't in IT. I design microwave and mmW structures for a living. But, feel free to believe whatever you want.

I'm a senior quality engineer in the energy industry dealing with multiple discipline's. It's not uncommon for engineers to specialise nor do they all deeply understand the inner working's of operating systems or the software they utilise. Their focus can be very specific, I would expect a geologist or petrophysicist to know the details of using the required software, equally not the inner workings. Same applies to electrical, mechanical & structural engineers as the fields are vast and take years to master.

I'm a consultant therefore it's in my own interests to be able to deal with computer related issues as it avoids downtime or the need to switch to a backup system in the field. Personally I find computers and software fairly straightforward, it's more people that tend to deviate and be the catalyst for issue

Q-6