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Yeah, the keyboard is still backlit. But the extension cable from the power brick gone. Luckily I still have a few of them around and I would guess most anyone who has previously owned a Mac does. But for first-time buyers, well Apple is happy to sell you one for $19.00. Ridiculous that it wasn't included for the price of these things. Yes, I do use them. Stupid brick will unplug itself from the wall under its own weight if you don't.

Sounds super premium to me, man. /sarcasm

AAPL shareholders love the penny-pinching moves tho. Tim Apple gettin' work done.
 
Perhaps the biggest evidence of that is when they stopped including the Apple stickers. What did those cost Apple? A couple of pennies?

I have purchased things costing a whole lot less that have come packed with stickers and chocolates, m&m’s and the like.

Do I *need* a sticker? Of course not. But for what these machines cost, they should have included all you mentioned and a freakin sticker or two.

Like I said Apple is just cheap these days, dongles/adapters are near mandatory as is AppleCare all adding to Apple's coffers, they'll be charging extra for the box next.

Tim Cook may be a good CEO, backed by a solid team, equally I despise what they have allowed Apple to become, literally the thing Apple once so vehemently stood against...

Q-6
 
Perhaps the biggest evidence of that is when they stopped including the Apple stickers.
There use to be a uniqueness, that differentiated apple from the beige computer makers back in the day. Stickers, the glowing apple logo on the laptops, various other small enhancements or features. They're all gone, replaced by supply chain thinking that less is more, but by removing these features they started to remove what made apple special.
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You can easily turn the snapping off in Windows settings.
Yeah, that's one of the first things I do when I rebuild or get a windows machine.
 
I hate that about Windows. Much prefer being able to place a window where I want without one snapping to full screen. Moom works great for me in Mac Os.

First we are not talking about full screen, we are talking about full height and 1/2 screen width for windows side by side on the display.

Second, if you don't like that you can easily disable it. There is a setting to turn the feature on and off. Or just make sure as you drag the window around the mouse cursor does not touch the side of the display.
 
Why put it in the Box when you can foist yet another up-sale on the customer same as RAM, SSD's, endless dongles and adapters. Personally I think it's plain insulting the intelligence of the customer, given the allegedly premium nature of the MBP.

Given the price Apple is demanding it's notebooks should at a minimum come complete with a multiport dongle and power extension cord in the box. This propensity to nickel & dime the customer at every possible opportunity is really getting old and simply comes across as Apple being little more than cheap.

Q-6

Couldn't agree more. What makes things worse is since they discovered the customers are ready to pay for that, there is no coming back. Would be hard to justify minimizing the additional income from extension cord sales and decreasing the profit margin due to increased costs. Sales would have to take a significant hit for a decision like that, because right now they seem to compensate declining sales with higher profit margin.
 
First we are not talking about full screen, we are talking about full height and 1/2 screen width for windows side by side on the display.

Second, if you don't like that you can easily disable it. There is a setting to turn the feature on and off. Or just make sure as you drag the window around the mouse cursor does not touch the side of the display.
Funny, I bought Better Touch Tool just so I could use snapping on my mac.
 
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Couldn't agree more. What makes things worse is since they discovered the customers are ready to pay for that, there is no coming back. Would be hard to justify minimizing the additional income from extension cord sales and decreasing the profit margin due to increased costs. Sales would have to take a significant hit for a decision like that, because right now they seem to compensate declining sales with higher profit margin.

That's clearly the plan, milk em for all their worth while you can. Once a very smart man realised that if you produce the very best you can, you wont need to deal with such nonsense, as the products would be standout and sell themselves.

Today Apple produces the minimum it can get away with and constantly pushes the boundaries of customer acceptance. To be frank Apple has already lost credibility in many professional circles with the Mac. If Apple wants more of the same it simply needs to keep on the current trajectory as it's working...

In many respects producing fewer units with a higher margin that offer fewer features is exactly what Apple wants, most importantly no questions asked. Once I would have challenged the PC guy's for mocking us, today they rather tend to have a valid point. TBH it's embarrassing :(:(:(

Q-6
 
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Couldn't agree more. What makes things worse is since they discovered the customers are ready to pay for that, there is no coming back. Would be hard to justify minimizing the additional income from extension cord sales and decreasing the profit margin due to increased costs. Sales would have to take a significant hit for a decision like that, because right now they seem to compensate declining sales with higher profit margin.

Even more ironic...Even here on the forum..

The Apple evangelists will defend these practices as being "eco" and "green" and "Apple saving the environment from waste"..

Apple could shine up a turd and sell it for a premium to some of these folks.
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Funny, I bought Better Touch Tool just so I could use snapping on my mac.

What's the best "Better Touch Tool" on Windows anyhow?

I use it on the Mac extensively and would like to do my window snapping on Windows with keyboard shortcuts as I do mainly on macOS also.
 
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I would add I much prefer the way Windows handles multiple windows sharing the screen.

It is very nice to drag a window to the left or right and have it automatically dock and resize to 1/2 the screen And when you click on another window it automatically docks to the other side and resizes to the remaining 1/2 screen resulting in the 2 windows displayed side by side.
This is probably one of my biggest complaints in the UI of MacOS. I use the docking/snapping feature in Windows ALL the time on my work machine but yet in MacOS I can't do it and it is irritating.

Now there is an app "Magnet" in the Mac App Store that you can get (I think it was free or real cheap) that does the same snapping actions in MacOS, but it is still not as clean and smooth as it is in Windows.
 
In many respects producing fewer units with a higher margin that offer fewer features is exactly what Apple wants

But why would they want that? Its the path into irrelevance. In one word: stupid. They've been there already, wasn't that particularly nice experience for them ...
 
As I type this on my company issued 2017 MBP 15... I backspace to fix the double strikes. I bang harder on the keyboard to get some to type. I constantly have to deal with dongle hell just to do my daily job functions. I don't have the physical keys I need to touch type my way through my job.

I am a HUGE Apple fan. I have been an all in guy for a decade plus. But this is just getting ridiculous. I'm serious considering bouncing off to Linux because M$ is just not an option in my mind. I'm not going back to virus hell. I'm just wondering if I'm alone? Is this part of the plan? Is Apple pushing us to iPad Pros? It just feels like I got a "MacBook Plus" not a "Pro" machine. By that I mean it seems like somebody let a marketing person convince them that they could up sell people out of MacBook with bells and whistles and didn't bother giving a Pro line machine features and function I needed.

Again, I'm not some Windows or Android zealot here to start a flame war. Just a hardcore Apple guy wondering what Apple is thinking these days and if they just aren't that "into" the laptop market anymore?

As soon as my Mid-2015 MBP dies, it will be the last one I own. The stupid touch bar is the reason I'm still on a 2015, and won't upgrade to anything newer. So here's hoping to it living a year or two longer, as I've not found anything on the PC side I'm super excited to replace my MBP with either.
 
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Why do you find the Touch Bar so bad? I actually like it. I am not saying that this is a must have feature, but it is helpful in many situations and almost all apps I use support it.
 
I use it on the Mac extensively and would like to do my window snapping on Windows with keyboard shortcuts as I do mainly on macOS also.

The primary shortcuts on on Windows 10 are based on "windows key" + direction arrow.

The left and right keys change the size of the windows, where they are docked, and which monitor they appear on.
And it you want it can just keep hitting Windows key + left of or right arrow and it will move the window that specified direction circularly across monitors. For example, assume monitor 1 is on the left of your desk and monitor 2 is on the right. Assuming you start with the window in the center of monitor 1 hitting Windows + right arrow over and over will: dock to the window to the right side of monitor 1, dock to left side of monitor 2, dock in the center of monitor 2, dock the right side of monitor 2, dock the monitor to the left side of monitor 1, and finally back to the center of monitor 1.

The up and down arrow keys also have functions. Assume the window is again centered, not full screen, on the monitor. Pressing the Windows + up key will full size the window. Pressing the windows + down arrow will center the window. Pressing the windows + down key again will iconify the window. Pressing the window + up key will bring the iconified window back to the center.

These shortcuts are very useful in help make it easy to manage windows without every reaching for the mouse.
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Why do you find the Touch Bar so bad? I actually like it. I am not saying that this is a must have feature, but it is helpful in many situations and almost all apps I use support it.

Same for me. It is surely not my favorite feature and often just a waste of space. But for things I do all the time, screen brightness up/down and volume up/down, it is much faster and easier to use a single button and just slide it left and right.

I suspect if I programmed a lot in vi/vim or other escape based editors it would be a pain without the physical escape key. But, I have commited to Code for all my code editing, except for Jupyter Notebook.
 
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Why do you find the Touch Bar so bad? I actually like it. I am not saying that this is a must have feature, but it is helpful in many situations and almost all apps I use support it.

no tactile feedback, removal of escape is especially heinous, removal of function keys isn't good either.

to add insult to injury the new macbook proved touch id didn't need touchbar additionally (some apple apologists used touch id as an excuse for touchbar)
also there is space above the function keys they could have done the touchbar without affecting the keyboard layout.
 
No tactile feedback: That doesn't bother me at all. After all we are all used to touchscreens. I understand though that you would like to have it.
The escape key is actually almost always there, so that isn't an issue.
 
I had chimed in a while back about this subject. I still have and use a late 2013 iMac with an external SSD and it is still a very nice machine. My daily driver though since the beginning of the year has been a nice HP desktop and I have to say has been a very good experience. I have been on the Mac platform since System 7 and was a huge cheerleader for Apple, but times have changed, and I can no longer voice support for their products as a whole. I kind of compare them to Bose, sounds nice, kind of pricey and quite honestly one can get a much better sound system for much less. I have an Office 365 account which obviously is the standard bearer for the word processing arena. I have several CAD programs available to me on Windows that are just not available for MAC which is a plus. I use iTunes for Windows, so all my music is right here with a nice desktop application which my remote on my iOS devices all connect to. I really find windows to be a very work flow friendly option at a very attractive cost vs. the “Apple Tax” premium one currently pays to be on Mac OS. As far as my integration with my iOS devices which I never plan on abandoning as they are first rate in every way and Apple offers enough lower tier options to fit almost any budget, I’m using One Drive and my Office 365 apps. The only non-integrated feature would be iMessage and quite honestly, I don’t get enough messages to worry about that feature. It has been a wonderful 24 years with Apple computers and I’m sure I will have a few ahead but not as my go to machine any more.
 
But why would they want that? Its the path into irrelevance. In one word: stupid. They've been there already, wasn't that particularly nice experience for them ...

Yet Apple is clearly doing this, with price points that exceed the average consumer, weaker features/performance and usability for heavy professional users who are willing to pay $4K-$5K or more as long as the value exists. All topped off with questionable reliability solely due to aesthetics, potentially self vanity o_O

I agree it makes no sense, equally sometimes history simply repeats...

Q-6
 
Yet Apple is clearly doing this, with price points that exceed the average consumer, weaker features/performance and usability for heavy professional users who are willing to pay $4K-$5K or more as long as the value exists. All topped off with questionable reliability solely due to aesthetics, potentially self vanity o_O

I agree it makes no sense, equally sometimes history simply repeats...

Q-6

How much does Apple really care about laptop and desktop computers? They are relatively small potatoes to the bottom line. Remember IBM used to make a bunch of small computers and ended up selling that business off to Lenovo. And that improved IBM's bottom line.

Apple is focused on trying to grow its service business. This is why Monday's expected streaming service business is so key. Apple wants to get a nice profitable slice of monthly subscription income which has much lower costs than hardware business.
 
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Even more ironic...Even here on the forum..

The Apple evangelists will defend these practices as being "eco" and "green" and "Apple saving the environment from waste"..

Apple could shine up a turd and sell it for a premium to some of these folks.
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What's the best "Better Touch Tool" on Windows anyhow?

I use it on the Mac extensively and would like to do my window snapping on Windows with keyboard shortcuts as I do mainly on macOS also.

I prefer Divvy, on both Mac and Windows. You can set up global shortcuts to give you very granular control over snap areas.
 
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