Anyone else abandoning ship?

[revmacian]

I am by no means letting Apple off the hook here. They seem to have had more issues of late and many of their design decisions are questionable at best.

Having said that, when I look at a lot of the PC manufacturers, I do not see some bastion of reliability. Razer is notorious for poor reliability as is hp. Dell has improved significantly, but they have a pretty poor reputation as well. Lenovo is better, but still a drop from the IBM days. I think all computer manufacturers have reliability and QC struggles, and really I doubt any one is significantly better than another. I will say that I would take Apple's service over any of the others however, aside from maybe Lenovo. We are sitting in an Apple echo chamber. Go to Dell, Razer, hp, or Lenovo centric forums and you are going to see the same things you see here. Just the company and part will be different.

If you dislike the direction Apple is taking their machines, whether it be overall design, usability, price, etc. that is one thing. But to leave because of reliability? I think you are chasing the end of a rainbow there.

EDIT: Also, Apple reliability is not new. I have seen these exact discussions on this forum for nearly the last 19 years! Heat issues, display issues, keyboard problems, case discoloration. None of this is new. What is new is the astronomical prices and design philosophy that really feels like it is going against the type of consumer a MacRumors user represents.

Yep. The grass may be greener on the other side of the fence.. but you're going to have to mow that grass too.

 

[The_Interloper]

For example, my needs include being able to have features such as iCloud, Continuity, Handoff, AirPlay, etc. seamlessly integrate between my devices. I wish someone would sit down and teach me how to do that between a Windows PC, iPhone and Android tablet.

iCloud = OneDrive, Google Drive, Dropbox etc
Continuity & Handoff = Your Phone incl. Continue on PC (iOS), Your Phone Companion (Android)
AirPlay = Chromecast, Miracast
AirDrop = Send Anywhere, FileDrop

 

[maflynn]

Having said that, when I look at a lot of the PC manufacturers,

I understand your point, and mostly not disagree.

Regarding, Dell, Lenovo and Razer, I've heard good things support wise from all three. Razer's support has seemingly improved quite a bit lately and so if you do get a defective machines, getting it replaced is a fairly painless process with most PC makers.

I do think we're talking about two different things though. Your point is the level of quality may not be higher with a PC maker vs. Apple. My contention is that apple has a design that is inherently flawed. The keyboard's design is defective and it will fail sooner or later. Where as the Dell's , Razers, HPs, ASUS all basically use a standard build and swapping out a part is generally easy, I'm with painting broad brushes, I'm sure some of the ultrabooks are not too repairable

 

[grad]

Bad keyboard is an exception, not a rule. Every poll here yielded the same result.

Bad keyboard is the rule after 2015, when Apple digressed to butterfly switches mechanism, unless by "bad" you just mean malfunctioning keyboards.

 

[Ploki]

Bad keyboard is the rule after 2015, when Apple digressed to butterfly switches mechanism, unless by "bad" you just mean malfunctioning keyboards.

i like them...

 

[jerryk]

i like them...

Me too. I find the typing experience better on my 2018 15" vs my 2015 15". And then there are the screen and speakers! Both a big improvement.

 

[Howard2k]

Me too. I find the typing experience better on my 2018 15" vs my 2015 15". And then there are the screen and speakers! Both a big improvement.

Admittedly I used a 2015, but I've never contemplated using the laptop speakers for anything. I don't consider the 2015 speakers "crap" but I wouldn't consider going without external speakers. Do you guys actually go without external speakers on a 2016/17/18?

 

[turbineseaplane]

I do keep changing my position on this, but I think what will probably end up happening is I will wait it out until the 2020 redesign is announced and if no improvement on the KB front (or any other avoidable major issues show up in the first gen) I will probably throw in the towel on the Mac. Perhaps I will get a refurbed Air once they appear and/or come down in price to play with and keep a toe in the ecosystem once my mbp becomes unserviceable but don’t think I’ll be plowing a big lump of money into a new pro... there’s that little something in the back of my head telling me not to go in for this current generation, as much as I’m raring to for the svelte design.

Sorry about that.

Honestly I didn't really think the full context changed your desire for a more svelte design (compromises or not) - which was my point of disagreement.

Apologies for that.

The only reason I tend to quote things in part is because it all becomes too long and gets truncated so often that I find myself (and I'm sure others) not necessarily always clicking to expand and see what was being referenced.

I absolutely wasn't trying to make it say something you weren't - It just read to me that you were excited about a more svelte design. Full stop. And I just am not, which is all I meant to address.

I truly just don't want it any thinner. It feels great in hand - looks great - just don't even want it thinner, before even considering compromises of going thinner.

Again - my apologies

 

[Never mind]

Yep. The grass may be greener on the other side of the fence.. but you're going to have to mow that grass too.

You are so right, but I rather mow that grass $1,000 cheaper.

 

[Cashmonee]

iCloud = OneDrive, Google Drive, Dropbox etc
Continuity & Handoff = Your Phone incl. Continue on PC (iOS), Your Phone Companion (Android)
AirPlay = Chromecast, Miracast
AirDrop = Send Anywhere, FileDrop

Outside of OneDrive, Google Drive, and Dropbox, which all are better than iCloud, the rest are hacks that do not work nearly as well or seamlessly as the Apple alternative. Chromecast possibly being the other lone exception.

I do feel like if you decide to abandon Apple, it really does not make a ton of sense going half way. If you are going to go with PCs or Android, you should probably just go all in on it. A lot of what you gain and pay for with Apple products is the integration between them.

 

[jerryk]

Admittedly I used a 2015, but I've never contemplated using the laptop speakers for anything. I don't consider the 2015 speakers "crap" but I wouldn't consider going without external speakers. Do you guys actually go without external speakers on a 2016/17/18?

If you are on a trip or in your backyard and want to listen to some music, you are sort of stuck with the built in speakers.

For my desktop Windows/Linux system I have some small Micca 42X speakers connected to a USB DAC. Obviously these sound better than any built in speakers, but there not very portable.

 

[OdT22]

Outside of OneDrive, Google Drive, and Dropbox, which all are better than iCloud, the rest are hacks that do not work nearly as well or seamlessly as the Apple alternative. Chromecast possibly being the other lone exception.

I do feel like if you decide to abandon Apple, it really does not make a ton of sense going half way. If you are going to go with PCs or Android, you should probably just go all in on it. A lot of what you gain and pay for with Apple products is the integration between them.

6 months ago, I would have disagreed and argued against the point of your second paragraph. But that has changed via a natural progression of sorts. One thing led to another, beginning with seeking some business solutions.

I had zero plans to leave Mac or iOS. Next thing I know, I'm without either.

The day to day differences are minor, but the freedom (my files are mine!) is sweet, and the costs are lower. Win/Win in the end.

 

[The_Interloper]

Outside of OneDrive, Google Drive, and Dropbox, which all are better than iCloud, the rest are hacks that do not work nearly as well or seamlessly as the Apple alternative. Chromecast possibly being the other lone exception.

"Hacks" they may well be, but the functionality is there if needed. Apple's ecosystem works beautifully and seamlessly - as it damn well should, given the closed, proprietary technology (e.g. AirDrop, Messages) and the cost of admission.

I do feel like if you decide to abandon Apple, it really does not make a ton of sense going half way. If you are going to go with PCs or Android, you should probably just go all in on it. A lot of what you gain and pay for with Apple products is the integration between them.

100% agree. The iPhone is at the center of everything; take it away and the advantages of other Apple hardware diminishes. Similarly, an iPhone in a Windows setup is fine but makes little sense as you lose the advantages of cross-device Continuity, Messages, AirDrop etc.

It's a choice between less-seamless but doable (and fairly open) fragmentation or a near-perfect all-Apple ecosystem that depends on hardware choices from only one company at increasingly eye-watering prices.

 

[turbineseaplane]

The iPhone is at the center of everything;

This is so true - and for me, iMessage is the glue right now.

That's just about the only thing holding me here at all

 

[maflynn]

This is so true - and for me, iMessage is the glue right now.

Indeed the ability to message people from my computer is a large feature that cannot be underestimated, at least for my needs

 

[OdT22]

Indeed the ability to message people from my computer is a large feature that cannot be underestimated, at least for my needs

The 'Your Phone' app in W10 (1809) allows for this when using an Android. It's not as smooth as iMessage, but it does work.

(Disclosure, this isn't a feature that I rely on. I only tried it for the fun of it. The photos part of that app is far more useful for my uses)

 

[CE3]

Outside of OneDrive, Google Drive, and Dropbox, which all are better than iCloud, the rest are hacks that do not work nearly as well or seamlessly as the Apple alternative. Chromecast possibly being the other lone exception.

I do feel like if you decide to abandon Apple, it really does not make a ton of sense going half way. If you are going to go with PCs or Android, you should probably just go all in on it. A lot of what you gain and pay for with Apple products is the integration between them.

The main thing I’m personally losing with a Windows laptop is Final Cut Pro and iMessage. The main thing I’m gaining is continued proficiency with both operating systems, which benefits the work I sometimes have to do with clients. The iMac is where I want to be editing video 99% of the time, and I can live without getting texts on a laptop when they’re showing up on my phone and wrist. All the other big programs I use, like Photoshop, are cross platform and work the same on Windows.

I don’t think it needs to be one or the other to make the most of an operating system. We all have different use cases. Everyone using Windows on their Macs via bootcamp are still using Windows, so they’re not “all in” the Apple ecosystem, either.

 

[Queen6]

This is so true - and for me, iMessage is the glue right now.

That's just about the only thing holding me here at all

I used to think that way too, people adapt and move on, if they want to get in contact they will, as will you

Q-6

 

[SDColorado]

Indeed the ability to message people from my computer is a large feature that cannot be underestimated, at least for my needs

And sadly, I will admit, answering calls. I have a habit of leaving my phone all over the place and often can't find it quickly hahaha.

I used to think that way too, people adapt and move on, if they want to get in contact they will, as will you

Q-6

I can't argue with that either. I often wish I wasn't as accessible to some (most) people

 

[joiwomcow]

Adding to the list of keyboard failures on the macbook pro 15" 2016. Double strikes on the "b" and "x" keys, which sucks when using emacs shortcuts. Astonishing that such a faulty design should have been released as a flagship product.

 

[Queen6]

My next laptop will be a gaming pc laptop. They are getting thinner with every iteration and some of the next gen ones coming out this year look great and have very impressive graphic cards.

I don’t rely on my Mac like I use to, and find I use my iPad more. There has also not been anything Mac related that has got me excited in a long time.

That's the path I took, they are performant, quiet under basic productivity workloads and when you need to "light them up" they deliver...

Just wipe or uninstall, than load the applications of choice. Currently on an ASUS ROG GL703GS V-Fast and no complaints as most importantly it gets the job done without any fuss. I take the notebook all round the world on engineering projects, might pickup the new Zephyrus S GX701 later this year although need to see if any tangible benefit over the GL703GS.

Q-6
[doublepost=1547579298][/doublepost]

Adding to the list of keyboard failures on the macbook pro 15" 2016. Double strikes on the "b" and "x" keys, which sucks when using emacs shortcuts. Astonishing that such a faulty design should have been released as a flagship product.

Terrible design all to save an 1/8" or less, hope Apple is enjoying it's vanity mirror. Sadly Apple is probably just putting the cost of it's errors back to the customer.

TBH really a shame the direction Apple has taken, they should never have sold out to the market. If you just do the best you can it always works out...

Q-6

 

[Mac03ForLife]

I have been considering a lenovo thinkpad. Then installing a VM with linux to try out for awhile. The thinkpads have great keyboards and they have really come down in price over the years. Mac keyboard sucks. no ports sucks. paying 4x what a product is worth sucks. windows sucks. linux looks like to be my only option these days.

After having a MBP 2011, an MBA 2017, and a PMG5 2003 DP 1.8, I finally switched over to the thinkpad p51. My job (Solidworks and Inventor modeling CAD/CAM) demands a higher end system than each of the macs that I tried, and while I was solidly considering the MBP 2018 Vega, the nearly $4000 price tag after AC+, dongles, etc, started me on the search. After finding the P51 (i7 7700HQ, 16GB DDR4 ECC RAM, 512GB PCIe NVMe SSD, and Quadro M1200) was only $1200 on amazon over the holidays, I abandoned macs for good (inb4 i write this post on the MBA 2017, of course)

 

[richinaus]

That's the path I took, they are performant, quiet under basic productivity workloads and when you need to "light them up" they deliver...
View attachment 815867 View attachment 815868
Just wipe or uninstall, than load the applications of choice. Currently on an ASUS ROG GL703GS V-Fast and no complaints as most importantly it gets the job done without any fuss. I take the notebook all round the world on engineering projects, might pickup the new Zephyrus S GX701 later this year although need to see if any tangible benefit over the GL703GS.

Q-6
[doublepost=1547579298][/doublepost]

Terrible design all to save an 1/8" or less, hope Apple is enjoying it's vanity mirror. Sadly Apple is probably just putting the cost of it's errors back to the customer.

TBH really a shame the direction Apple has taken, they should never have sold out to the market. If you just do the best you can it always works out...

Q-6

I am very tempted by the Razer announced at CES, with the Nvidia 2080 gpu - should be great for gpu and real time rendering on the fly when out the office. Just got to get past the logos......

 

[jerryk]

I am very tempted by the Razer announced at CES, with the Nvidia 2080 gpu - should be great for gpu and real time rendering on the fly when out the office. Just got to get past the logos......

Seems like those models are only full HD (1920 X 1080) and not the 4 K models (with 100% adobe RGB gamut). And if I were selecting one I would go with the 2070 versus the 2080. The heat for a few FPS does not seem work it. That the decision I made for my new desktop system and I have been very happy. Now if it were a 2080 Ti, then ....

 

[Falhófnir]

Sorry about that.

Honestly I didn't really think the full context changed your desire for a more svelte design (compromises or not) - which was my point of disagreement.

Apologies for that.

The only reason I tend to quote things in part is because it all becomes too long and gets truncated so often that I find myself (and I'm sure others) not necessarily always clicking to expand and see what was being referenced.

I absolutely wasn't trying to make it say something you weren't - It just read to me that you were excited about a more svelte design. Full stop. And I just am not, which is all I meant to address.

I truly just don't want it any thinner. It feels great in hand - looks great - just don't even want it thinner, before even considering compromises of going thinner.

Again - my apologies

It's fair enough, I mainly wanted to set the record straight - I probably could've done without giving the lecture I'm being quite tetchy in general at the moment I think I need a family pack of snickers